Are Hair Transplants an “Illusion” of density?

[gillenator]

Yet that’s the beauty of surgical hair restoration!…for many individuals with average hair characteristics at best can achieve a visually restored result “without” attaining their native density…as I have alluded before countless times, surgical hair restoration is not about achieving density, it’s about achieving the “illusion” of coverage. 

[Euphoria]

Man, the question is does density matter?

What I mean is this, I had diffuse thinning which got worse like 5 years back and after a shower, it looked see through. Sometimes it looked see through dry in sun too BUT nobody called me bald and it never affected my social life. One girl was literally throwing herself at me, I could attract girls I liked, get eye contact constantly etc.

Now I am a nw5 or 6 I think and it has severely impacted my social life, I haven’t accepted my hairloss since it happened so fast so I still behave the same as I did before but it’s astonishing how differently the world treats you. Girls avoid eye contact or there’s just no attraction from them or sexual tension, it’s like climbing a mountain to reach attraction that you would get without any effort before, people used to be a lot nicer and friendly. Yeah, I am generalising a lot but look the effect is very real. 

So if a hair transplant can give you what Melvin or others has, it’s done it’s job beautifully!. I feel the people who obsess over little things like see through in wet or how hairs look in hairline are the same kind of people who destroy their natural looks by getting lips filled, butt implants etc but to them they have severe defects and obsessed with it.

Point is nobody cares as long as you aren’t bald. Even some nw0 you can see through their skin in wet conditions because it’s just some people have naturally less density/thinner hair. 

 

 

 

[gillenator]

Yes I think we all agree that density matters and is inevitably a part of the equation in attaining the illusion of coverage; but even more integral is the degree of coarseness of the hair shafts that either provides significant visual coverage or decreases visual coverage because of a diffused thinning pattern.

[HairEnthusiast101]

That illusion of density do you think goes hand in hand with surgeons who do more with less grafts? Some surgeons seem to really utilize grafts well but I cannot tell if it is hiding still recession through ways they video/take photos or they just utilitize grafts better. Dr Farjo is a great example many of his results use less grafts than most but look incredible. So didn’t know if an illusion of density happened there 

Edited May 7, 2022 by JoDimaggio22

[gillenator]

Yes the placement of grafts along with graft selection can make a difference with some of the best skilled surgeons yet IMHO, it comes down to the differences between the individuals’  optimal hair characteristics and how the visual illusion of coverage is impacted and ultimately attained.

[HairEnthusiast101]

4 hours ago, gillenator said:

Yes the placement of grafts along with graft selection can make a difference with some of the best skilled surgeons yet IMHO, it comes down to the differences between the individuals’  optimal hair characteristics and how the visual illusion of coverage is impacted and ultimately attained.

Thank you for responding. Would you say placement is really benefiting or hurting the patient though if only dry hair looks somewhat thick but in a pool it isn’t going to hide the lack of density?

[general-etwan]

The correct answer here is that it depends. It's a numbers game. Anyone who can understand math can use math to evaluate HTs. A very minor hair transplant with a low number of grafts...that can achieve pretty naturally-high density. But if you're trying to spread grafts over a very large area of bald skin, as is the case in higher NWs, the density cannot match the original natural density because there isn't enough donor grafts left to use. There will be this limitation until follicle cloning.

[general-etwan]

On 4/27/2022 at 1:08 AM, Euphoria said:

Man, the question is does density matter?

What I mean is this, I had diffuse thinning which got worse like 5 years back and after a shower, it looked see through. Sometimes it looked see through dry in sun too BUT nobody called me bald and it never affected my social life. One girl was literally throwing herself at me, I could attract girls I liked, get eye contact constantly etc.

Now I am a nw5 or 6 I think and it has severely impacted my social life, I haven’t accepted my hairloss since it happened so fast so I still behave the same as I did before but it’s astonishing how differently the world treats you. Girls avoid eye contact or there’s just no attraction from them or sexual tension, it’s like climbing a mountain to reach attraction that you would get without any effort before, people used to be a lot nicer and friendly. Yeah, I am generalising a lot but look the effect is very real. 

So if a hair transplant can give you what Melvin or others has, it’s done it’s job beautifully!. I feel the people who obsess over little things like see through in wet or how hairs look in hairline are the same kind of people who destroy their natural looks by getting lips filled, butt implants etc but to them they have severe defects and obsessed with it.

Point is nobody cares as long as you aren’t bald. Even some nw0 you can see through their skin in wet conditions because it’s just some people have naturally less density/thinner hair. 

 

 

 

I agree very much with this.

I say it all the time: it's the MPB pattern (the horseshoe-looking pattern) that is the real killer. Attractiveness is found in uniformity. Even completely smooth bald all across the entire head can be attractive...but most men have that remaining ring shadow left over which will always been unappealing. 

I have an uncle who seems to have had some uniform diffuse thinning of his hair over his life (he's about 50). But it's still an absolutely fine look because there is no ring pattern visible from a distance. He still has pretty unform hair from front to back, and he buzzes his hair all one length, and it looks good. 

I strongly believe in almost every case, it is the ring pattern that must be eliminated. It's why I want to see more aggression in transplant clinics in taking the donor hair. In my opinion, too many clinics (and too many patients) are too concerned about preserving the donor area, when the ultimate point is that it's the ring pattern that creates the unappealing look above everything else. Enough donor hair should be taken and relocated to the top to equal out the density across the scalp and make it as uniform as possible. As an oversimplified example: If a balding guy's situation is 40 density on top, 100 density on donor area, every effort should be made to make that at least 70/70, or at least create the visual look that it is about uniform. 20/100 would need to go to 60/60.

And if one area is going to have "more" hair than the other, it really should be the top of the scalp. Hair on the top always looks you look taller, frames your face more strongly, and is a more attractive look. I see so many hair transplants where the donor area remains significantly more dense after a HT than the top and I just don't understand why clinics aren't going further to equal out the areas when I think they should be. 

[Barnan12550]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:11 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

I use Caboki all the time in the crown. In fact, it makes my hair look like a 10.  I can certainly live with needing to use hair fibers to make my hair look perfect. This is how I looked before, I keep these pictures as a reminder.

That’s your head before your HT? Were all 9k graphs pulled from your head? 

[gillenator]

Some beard grafts?

[OliverAtom]

Yes, did you get beard grafts? How many?

[gillenator]

On 5/7/2022 at 8:10 PM, JoDimaggio22 said:

Thank you for responding. Would you say placement is really benefiting or hurting the patient though if only dry hair looks somewhat thick but in a pool it isn’t going to hide the lack of density?

It's difficult to hide the lack of density when the hair is wet regardless of how the grafts are placed...however enjoy the illusion whenever you are not swimming.

[NARMAK]

I think it would be an interesting comparison to see if there's examples out there of how much above the "50% of native density" rule of thumb you would need to get close to based on hair calibre to manage as close as possible to the native look. E.g 80cm/2 native, 65cm/2 transplanted. 

I do think realistically only a Norwood 3 or lower could probably afford to try exhaust the donor chasing native density. 

[gillenator]

The degree of hair caliber is always the most critical factor however, can that change over time?…can there be a potential loss or decrease in hair shaft diameter as we age?…and we do know that with some individuals that the permanence of the donor area can  also change.

[SeanT1]

Another example of how pictures can be deceiving.  These are taken on the same day, same room, same hour.
The only difference is that I'm standing under a heavy light in the second image;

 

However, ANYTHING is an improved over what you used to have.
Hair transplants can definitely make someone look like they have a full head of hair!

But just know that lighting can be an enemy.

Edited October 13, 2022 by SeanToman

[gillenator]

Without a doubt lighting makes a huge  visual difference…In the 2nd photo ultraviolet rays are reflecting off the scalp.

[NARMAK]

On 10/14/2022 at 12:46 AM, SeanToman said:

Another example of how pictures can be deceiving.  These are taken on the same day, same room, same hour.
The only difference is that I'm standing under a heavy light in the second image;

 

However, ANYTHING is an improved over what you used to have.
Hair transplants can definitely make someone look like they have a full head of hair!

But just know that lighting can be an enemy.

Lighting is definitely a big culprit and why i think a 2nd pass is usually necessary too if possible, because in the Summer for example, it completely exposes HT's built on the illusion of density. 

I can only dream we get those unlimited clone grafts within the next few decades. Restock donors and have a well for multiple hair transplants packed at native density almost. 

[SeanT1]

1 hour ago, NARMAK said:

Lighting is definitely a big culprit and why i think a 2nd pass is usually necessary too if possible, because in the Summer for example, it completely exposes HT's built on the illusion of density. 

I can only dream we get those unlimited clone grafts within the next few decades. Restock donors and have a well for multiple hair transplants packed at native density almost. 

The biggest worry I have regarding a second transplant is damaging grafts from the first.

Seems too risky, but I might be overthinking it.

[NARMAK]

41 minutes ago, SeanToman said:

The biggest worry I have regarding a second transplant is damaging grafts from the first.

Seems too risky, but I might be overthinking it.

I think in the right hands, after a sufficient enough time, this is a non-issue. There's tons of examples on here where initially people had shock loss to contend with and then it seemed to resolve to a great degree. 

I'm keenly follow MazAB's 2nd HT because he transplanted into the temples further and i think given mine was similar, i trust his will grow well. 

However i probably wouldn't get another for maybe a few years after. Budget and time constraints being the primary two reasons. However, i'm only just approaching month 5 and pretty sure things could still keep improving till 18 months. 

I definitely think that's why people need to be fully informed about why it's rarely one and done. 

[John1991]

I'm 6.5 months post op (so it will still get a bit thicker and texture will improve a bit probably) and comparing my hairline in natural daylight or even bright sunlight from two feet away/selfie range, it looks as dense or denser than my original one, which wasn't bad to begin with.  So, at least in some instances, I would say there isn't much illusion going on.  I can honestly say it looks completely natural/not see through or weird in any way whatsoever.  Or at least not more see through than the average good hairline you see. Mind you these pictures are cropping out the rest of my face and zooming in on only the hairline - something no one does in interactions. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by John1991

[NARMAK]

11 minutes ago, John1991 said:

I'm 6.5 months post op (so it will still get a bit thicker and texture will improve a bit probably) and comparing my hairline in natural daylight or even bright sunlight from two feet away/selfie range, it looks as dense or denser than my original one, which wasn't bad to begin with.  So, at least in some instances, I would say there isn't much illusion going on.  I can honestly say it looks completely natural/not see through or weird in any way whatsoever.  Mind you these pictures are cropping out the rest of my face and zooming in on only the hairline - something no one does in interactions. 

Yours looks solid for sure. Definitely dense packed and hopefully you see it improve a fair bit till 12 months. 

[John1991]

16 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Yours looks solid for sure. Definitely dense packed and hopefully you see it improve a fair bit till 12 months. 

At this point any improvement won't impact my appearance to the extent that it impacts my life in any way.  Sure, I won't complain if it gets a little thicker - and it getting to be the same length as the rest will be good - but at the point it's basically all icing on the cake.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by John1991

[Ryan Daniel]

It will require 2 or 3 touchups for a hair transplant to stop being an illusion

[John1991]

17 minutes ago, Ryan Daniel said:

It will require 2 or 3 touchups for a hair transplant to stop being an illusion

Seems like an unwise use of money and time if those touchups make no difference in the life of the patient, though.  If the purpose of a hair transplant is to a) improve one's hair situation (to help one's overall appearance improve) and b) have the recipient area look indistinguishable from the rest of their hair and look natural then once a and b are accomplished, anything further seems unwise.  Especially given that "anything further" (more surgeries) requires thousands of dollars and months of recovery.  Hair transplants should be a means to an end, not an obsession in and of themselves to the point where one's only goal is to ensure the most perfect head of hair humanly possible.  Just my two cents.

Edited October 15, 2022 by John1991

[Gatsby]

41 minutes ago, John1991 said:

At this point any improvement won't impact my appearance to the extent that it impacts my life in any way.  Sure, I won't complain if it gets a little thicker - and it getting to be the same length as the rest will be good - but at the point it's basically all icing on the cake.

 

 

Looking good @John1991 🤘