FUT is more popular than FUE

[1978matt]

Quite right Newbie33.

 

The undisputed fact of this thread is that out of all the doctors I know who have posting accounts: Konior, Wong, Hasson, Vogel, Feriduni, Charles, Karadeniz, Beenher, Arocha, Ron Shapiro, Paul Shapiro, De Jarman, Josephitis, Bernstein, Carmen, Farjo, Gabel, Frank, Cohen, Keller, Keene, Cooley, Gillespie, Mohebi, Nakatsui, Panine, Parsley, Wesley, Rose, Vories and many others...only one (Bhatti) chose to 'set the record straight' and failed badly.

 

The FUE guru posters also failed individually to persuade their own doctors to come on and post. That's if they even tried.

 

Out of sheer anger and desperation they instead chose to bring up a wild mFUE conspiracy theory. Interesting that they cooked up this story only after a month and a half and over 1000 posts!

 

 

Chaps, do you think any of you are too emotionally invested in one procedure or another to be objective any more? Is this why it's all boiled down to rather silly character attacks?

[Sethticles]

.only one (Bhatti) chose to 'set the record straight' and failed badly.

 

matt to the FUT rescue again

[lileli]

Quite right Newbie33.

 

The undisputed fact of this thread is that out of all the doctors I know who have posting accounts: Konior, Wong, Hasson, Vogel, Feriduni, Charles, Karadeniz, Beenher, Arocha, Ron Shapiro, Paul Shapiro, De Jarman, Josephitis, Bernstein, Carmen, Farjo, Gabel, Frank, Cohen, Keller, Keene, Cooley, Gillespie, Mohebi, Nakatsui, Panine, Parsley, Wesley, Rose, Vories and many others...only one (Bhatti) chose to 'set the record straight' and failed badly.

 

The FUE guru posters also failed individually to persuade their own doctors to come on and post. That's if they even tried.

 

Out of sheer anger and desperation they instead chose to bring up a wild mFUE conspiracy theory. Interesting that they cooked up this story only after a month and a half and over 1000 posts!

 

I'm not sure how he failed. He responded to the three forces and provided his own view on that study . Dr Vieira just explained his position.he's confident enough to guarantee 90 percent growth.

[Mickey85]

Karadeniz's opinion would have been great but he is no longer affiliated with the forum...

[Britanium]

What happened to him mickey?

[lorenzo]

Chaps, do you think any of you are too emotionally invested in one procedure or another to be objective any more? Is this why it's all boiled down to rather silly character attacks?

 

I said it way back when in this thread, and it's not changed - this entire debate has made me less likely to have a HT of any sort. And maybe that is a good thing

I fully agree with this statement. This thread now appears no longer to be about fact but about ego. It started off quite educational but the posts are about ego, If I was a newbie I would be turned off by a hair transplant after reading this.

[Swooping]

matt to the FUT rescue again

 

Forget about matt. He got hurt and angry when I said that FUT was brutal. Probably the only emotional guy out here. Just confirmation bias.

 

Dr. Feller, is just a arrogant "know it all" kind of guy. Hell, he is probably average at FUE in these days. He definitely isn't considered as a elite guy in FUE. Makes things more funny. I have tried searching for his FUE results but didn't find anything pretty much above 2000 grafts. And the cases that I did found were minor hairline touch ups that were easy to perform as they lean on a excellent native hair density.

 

There are furthermore almost no independent patient results for FUE from Dr. Feller. Basically he has not much to show for FUE?

 

Dr. Feller his quote in 2007;

 

With current technology, FUE is labor instensive and tedious. In my own practice I have noticed that I begin to burn out by the 800th FUE graft.

 

Dr. Feller just doesn't like FUE. A quick search into his post history on another site confirms this. I believe there is a economical catch to this too, but that aside. I'll give you a hint; time = money.

 

The difference is that he knows that FUT is getting beaten heavily by FUE. So he knows he is in a bad situation. His practice is probably not as busy as it used to be. So I see this topic as a hopeless desperate shout. A shout that will do him harm only though. But he fails to see that. Which guy will ever go for a FUE procedure now with Dr. Feller? Only the dumb will.

 

Oh and btw you may speak all you want Dr. Feller but these kinds of theoretical aspects you speak about mean nothing when you don't even have a steady hand to perform a FUE procedure. As far as I know excellent hand coordination, stamina and superb hand motor skills are of utmost importance to perform FUE. Also it does take much practice to get good at FUE. I don't think you have ever had the practice to even develop these to a high level or you just can't. So its perfectly logical that your own observations are confirming that FUE is sub-par to FUT, but hey that is your opinion sir. It's not the truth, period.

 

If you have proper studies however, then please do show them.

[lileli]

I like to not doubt the intentions of anyone. I don't think personal attacks on any doctor are warranted unless proven to be frauds

[hairshopeing]

Matt

 

To be fair most Dr's successful at fue don't need to debate this or refute Dr fellers claims, their results already do that!

 

And to be fair there hasn't been and strip surgeons on here either backing up Dr fellers claims, so by that rationale I take it strip surgery must be a failure also? Of course not, they don't need to they go about their business! I think most Dr's couldn't be bothered what Dr feller claims or says as it won't effect ghem or their business!

[Dr. Alan Feller]

This thread does need to be put back on track.

 

The title of the topic is that FUT is more popular than FUE. And it is. For all the vitriol and personal attacks and input of Dr. Bhatti and Dr. Vories the fact remains that FUT is in fact more popular than FUE for whatever reason. The internet perception that the opposite is true is false. And this was the reason I created the thread.

 

 

Dr. Bhatti injected himself as the champion of FUE and forcefully claimed that if he debated me he could demonstrate that FUE does not inflict more damage on the grafts compared to FUT-particularly in his hands. However, he never joined the debate nor addressed the undeniable facts I brought up. Instead he utilized evasion and distraction that in a real contest would have gotten him disqualified.

 

He put up a video to demonstrate his superior technique. But he confused speed with technique. And in showing the video he unwittingly demonstrated even to the lay eye the destructive consequences of trading technique for speed. And in doing this he directly showed two of the three detrimental forces I have been warning everyone about but which he claims do not exist.

 

His own video became such a prima facia statement in support of my claims that he actually edited it down and blurred out the sections of the surgery. And if that weren't enough, he went back into his own post and edited out the original link to the first video and substituted in the second video. He never wrote a word about that maneuver and neither did his paid representatives.

 

Forgetting about whether you understand or care about the points being debated between he and I, these actions speak volumes and can rightly be termed "consciousness of guilt" and "tampering with the evidence".

 

I have remained on point that FUE is brutal to the grafts compared to FUT. Dr. Bhatti has not refuted that. He has claimed that OTHER FUE clinics inflict greater damage to grafts compared to his technique. And this may well be true. But that video shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that his FUE technique is brutal on grafts compared to FUT and he knows it. Why would he otherwise change the video, try to cover up the evidence, and do everything he could to distract from it?

 

Folks, it's YOUR scalp, but use your brains to see what is going on here. Cut out all the hype, and character assassination, and partisan cheerleaders, and really read the points I've made and how Dr. Bhatti addressed (or avoided) them. Then look at what he did to his patient in the original video and ask why he made such radical changes to that video and then re posted it on the sly. Does that seem like a man who believes in the rightness of what he is doing? Does that seem like a man who is being honest and transparent?

 

Go to post number 1174 and click the links for the original video and then the edited video. I believe this speaks for itself.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Dr. Alan Feller

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Matt

 

To be fair most Dr's successful at fue don't need to debate this or refute Dr fellers claims, their results already do that!

 

And to be fair there hasn't been and strip surgeons on here either backing up Dr fellers claims, so by that rationale I take it strip surgery must be a failure also? Of course not, they don't need to they go about their business! I think most Dr's couldn't be bothered what Dr feller claims or says as it won't effect ghem or their business!

 

How is a strip surgeon going to back up my claims of FUE disruptive forces? They don't perform it, so how can they comment with authority? But you might ask them WHY they don't perform FUE. Start a thread on that and see the responses. It would be more interesting than this one if you can get the doctors to come on and post.

 

The debate is not FUT vs. FUE. FUT has already established it's dominance. No need to defend it. It's FUE on trial and I made it very clear what it's problems are from someone who performs them.

 

Just pointing to results is not good enough. They do not refute my claims in the slightest. There are many beautiful and thick results out there from plugs, scalp reductions, and flaps. But you don't see those procedures being performed anymore do you?

 

Now look at how Dr. Bhatti performed his technique in his video. After I pointed out the brutality of this technique and showed how it supports my contention that FUE is more traumatic to the grafts than FUT he edited the video and quietly slipped it into his post after the fact. That means nothing to you? Honestly?

[Yaz89]

Dr Feller, you fighting an losing battle. These guys will aways see themselves better and more knowledgeable than hair restoration surgeons. In my eyes they are making an mockery with their comments; they have no knowledge of the medical aspects and the training it requires. And somehow they are the so called experts!

 

Matt's result is one of the greatest patient posted results out there. I wish I had hair like that!

[mav23100gunther]

Chaps, do you think any of you are too emotionally invested in one procedure or another to be objective any more? Is this why it's all boiled down to rather silly character attacks?

thing.

 

According to HTsoon, one is not allowed to objective on this thread, if you are then you are considered to be swinging back and fourth changing positions. Apparently you have to pick a side and stick with it. Its become a complete and utter joke.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Let me ask the members of the community a couple of questions with respect to Dr. Bhatti's technique as demonstrated int he video:

 

If YOU or your loved one were the patient depicted in that video and you wound up with a poor result, would you assign any of the failure to the indiscriminate squeezing, ripping, and raking you witnessed ?

 

If you were this patient and the result was poor, would you not take this video to Dr. Bhatti and say you clearly mishandled my grafts I want my money back?

 

If you were this patient and had a poor result and then saw this video would you not ask Dr. Bhatti if there was a more gentile procedure he could have performed that would not have necessitated so much graft trauma? Would you not ask why he didn't inform you of the more gentile alternative? And would you not be upset that you were not informed that this more gentile method was the worlds mainstream method for HT?

 

Because in the United States this video would be the open door for a class action lawsuit on behalf of any and all patients who did not grow well.

[Swooping]

Dr Feller, you fighting an losing battle. These guys will aways see themselves better and more knowledgeable than hair restoration surgeons. In my eyes they are making an mockery with their comments; they have no knowledge of the medical aspects and the training it requires. And somehow they are the so called experts!

 

Matt's result is one of the greatest patient posted results out there. I wish I had hair like that!

 

Argumentum ab auctoritate.

[Yaz89]

"The argument from authority". Is this what you think Swoop? I hardly comment on this thread. Go back a few pages and see who the real 'authority' are.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dr Feller, you fighting an losing battle. These guys will aways see themselves better and more knowledgeable than hair restoration surgeons. In my eyes they are making an mockery with their comments; they have no knowledge of the medical aspects and the training it requires. And somehow they are the so called experts!

 

Matt's result is one of the greatest patient posted results out there. I wish I had hair like that!

 

Yes Yaz, I know what you're saying and understand that.

 

I have no allusions that I will convince most of these anonymous posters of reality. That is not my goal and in many cases not possible.

 

When the silent majority read these threads they are not stupid, they can see who is acting rationally, who is acting emotionally, and who is acting disingenuously.

 

Even after personal attacks, insults, and distractions the truth percolates up to the surface. That's why there are over 50,000 views, the public is hungry for real information on FUE and FUT and which procedure is best for them. It's all right here, and they know it.

 

People read these posts and say I don't have a good "bedside manner". Well, an internet forum is no "bedside". It can be a brutal and unfair place and the appropriate attitude must be developed and adopted to be able to use it as a tool to get your message out.

[Melvin- Admin]

Let me ask the members of the community a couple of questions with respect to Dr. Bhatti's technique as demonstrated int he video:

 

If YOU or your loved one were the patient depicted in that video and you wound up with a poor result, would you assign any of the failure to the indiscriminate squeezing, ripping, and raking you witnessed ?

 

If you were this patient and the result was poor, would you not take this video to Dr. Bhatti and say you clearly mishandled my grafts I want my money back?

 

If you were this patient and had a poor result and then saw this video would you not ask Dr. Bhatti if there was a more gentile procedure he could have performed that would not have necessitated so much graft trauma? Would you not ask why he didn't inform you of the more gentile alternative? And would you not be upset that you were not informed that this more gentile method was the worlds mainstream method for HT?

 

Because in the United States this video would be the open door for a class action lawsuit on behalf of any and all patients who did not grow well.

 

The key word Dr. Feller is poor result, I think anyone with a poor result would do the following, as a matter of fact if I had a thick slab of meat butchered out of my head id be a lot quicker to file a class action suit.

 

Mav I've never said don't be objective, but to heckle the dr in to apologizing then the next minute defend him is odd and shocking to me to be honest.

[lileli]

Sigh. This field is a little depressing. Why are there doctors that claim to get better or comparable results to FUT and that is why they switched to FUE exclusively? Why do some top clinics seem to get consistent high yields via FUE? I don't doubt that FUT gets a higher yield but the question is how much more? A 35% higher yield would be significant but 5% not so much. In my research, I do see that a lot of American Doctors promote FUT more but a few just state that FUT is good if you want one procedure to do a mega session vs. multiple to extract the same amount via FUE. The best thing anyone can do regardless of technique is go to a reputable doctor that stands by their work.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

The key word Dr. Feller is poor result, I think anyone with a poor result would do the following, as a matter of fact if I had a thick slab of meat butchered out of my head id be a lot quicker to file a class action suit.

 

Mav I've never said don't be objective, but to heckle the dr in to apologizing then the next minute defend him is odd and shocking to me to be honest.

 

Taking a donor strip would not be grounds for a class action lawsuit because while frightening to the lay observer it treats the grafts as delicately as can be treated. That's why it became the mainstream in less than five years of its introduction and is still the mainstream today. It produces the most reliable results and is why the overwhelming number of HT doctors perform it.

 

FUE on the other hand, especially "speed FUE" as seen in the Bhatti video subjects the grafts to greater trauma. You honestly don't see that?

[mav23100gunther]

 

Mav I've never said don't be objective, but to heckle the dr in to apologizing then the next minute defend him is odd and shocking to me to be honest.

 

And you didn't find it odd and shocking that you yourself have been heckling Dr Feller and then at one point defended him when you thought the learning disability statement wasn't offensive? What's the difference? Let me guess, it's different with you because you haven't been heckling him, just challenging him?

 

Also want to point out that I highly doubt Dr Feller needs a nobody like me to defend him, I think he is doing just fine on his own. I'm just simply stating my own opinion. Would still like to hear where exactly I changed my own position on something. You have done a great job challenging Dr Feller, but am curious why you haven't challenged Dr Bhatti on him editing the video recording? Editing the video is pretty shocking actually.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Sigh. This field is a little depressing. Why are there doctors that claim to get better or comparable results to FUT and that is why they switched to FUE exclusively? Why do some top clinics seem to get consistent high yields via FUE? I don't doubt that FUT gets a higher yield but the question is how much more? A 35% higher yield would be significant but 5% not so much. In my research, I do see that a lot of American Doctors promote FUT more but a few just state that FUT is good if you want one procedure to do a mega session vs. multiple to extract the same amount via FUE. The best thing anyone can do regardless of technique is go to a reputable doctor that stands by their work.

 

Lileli,

That's why using numbers and statistics can be misleading. People aren't numbers or statistics. The only thing that matters is what's going to actually happen to them, not what the statistical chances are.

 

Let's say YOU were the person who received only 70% growth from your FUE. Then as far as you're concerned the chances of 70% growth is 100%. It doesn't matter how the next guy grows if you didn't grow to your MAXIMUM potential.

 

But there is no way to know this until AFTER you've done the FUE.

 

So why would an FUE patient only grow 70% ? It could be x-factor which is unpredictable and uncontrollable. OR it can be due to the number one reason hair transplants fail to grow well: graft mishandling. That's not to say all FUE practitioners are negligent in graft handling, but because it is inherent to the FUE procedure itself and is unavoidable.

 

Of course x-factor can reduce the growth rate of an FUT as well. But it doesn't have the added and more significant detriment of the graft mishandling inherent to FUE.

 

So if HT is a game of chance you must pick the best surgeon AND the best procedure. It's clear that FUT is right choice for "procedure". After that you just have to pick the best FUT practitioner. Unfortunately there is quite a range out there to pick from so you would have to do your homework.

[Shera]

Question for Dr Feller,

 

Do you have the skills and technique to do what Dr Bhatti is doing in that video?

 

No long winded political answers, a simple Yes or No will suffice.

[Melvin- Admin]

Taking a donor strip would not be grounds for a class action lawsuit because while frightening to the lay observer it treats the grafts as delicately as can be treated. That's why it became the mainstream in less than five years of its introduction and is still the mainstream today. It produces the most reliable results and is why the overwhelming number of HT doctors perform it.

 

FUE on the other hand, especially "speed FUE" as seen in the Bhatti video subjects the grafts to greater trauma. You honestly don't see that?

 

How would a layman be able to deduce speed FUE to regular FUE? My point was that anyone with a poor result would ask for a refund and if their circumstance was not favorable would most likely file a class action suit.

 

I disagree with you Dr. Feller, I honestly don't believe that FUT is the most popular choice in hair restoration. I believe that it's performed more often because:

A. It's cheaper

B: you can move more grafts in one sitting.

 

In the dozens of consultations I went to with world renowned hair restoration physicians I heard the same thing. If you chose FUE you'll have to do more than one surgery to move the same amount of grafts you could do with one FUT surgery, and you'll have to break it up in to sessions. Never once was I told, if I chose FUE I wouldn't get the same yield, I questioned every single doctor I spoke with, every single one of them confided in me that transection mainly occurs during the learning curve of FUE. That was not one physician but many, so you see it's hard for me to believe just one physician who also has monetary incentives i.e new procedure.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

How would a layman be able to deduce speed FUE to regular FUE?

 

Now you're a layman? In every other post you are a surgical expert ! But I'll help you out:

 

Just look at my video and compare it to Dr. Bhatti's video. Mine is regular FUE and his is speed FUE. Don't want to go by my FUE technique, fine, there are several other videos of FUE doctors doing extractions out there. Compare to those. Hint: Dr. Bhatti's is the "speed FUE" and he's proud of it.

 

Well, maybe not that proud of it since he edited the video to exclude as much actual extraction as he could.