FUT is more popular than FUE

[Sethticles]

I'll admit, I have been a bit of smart ass towards Dr Feller - i do apologise

[Melvin- Admin]

What's interesting is that prior to Dr. Feller I had never even heard of the "3 detrimental factors" how can you expect someone to debate you on a subject that there are no studies on? To me it's like debating on religion, it's pointless because there is no definitive answer, I don't see how Dr. Feller could've expected Dr. Bhattis responses to be different, to be honest as much as I have wanted to give Dr. Feller the benefit of the doubt him and his partners constantly going out of their way to discredit FUE and advocate their own procedure as an alternative shows all the signs of marketing.

 

Honestly Dr. Feller, anyone with common sense can see the pattern, how did Dr. Bloxham so quickly change his mind about FUE, countless threads of him complimenting FUE results, all of the sudden now he believes FUE gives poor results, ruins the donor area, and leads to unhappy patients, just a year ago he was singing a different tune. What makes sense and what I see is a young physician getting started in hair restoration, the learning curve in FUE is much longer, even Dr. Bhatti admitted that it took him years to master FUE whilst FUT he leaned in a few months. So as a business standpoint it benefits him to advocate FUT because it's a procedure he can learn and master quickly. Discrediting FUE as a business standpoint sets up the perfect narrative for MFUE which is nothing like FUE I might add, to come in as the perfect alternative for individuals scared of the strip scar, now they can enjoy both FUE type scarring with FUT yield. Sorry not buying what you're selling, if FUE was as bad as you say than FUE clinics would go out of business, instead each year more and more physicians practice FUE and more and more patients get FUE, the numbers have increased not decreased that says something about the procedure don't you think?

[mav23100gunther]

Mav,

 

Thread 1101

 

Thanks Wazaam, but to be fair, you can't hold this one against Feller as these are Bhatti's words not his. The 1st one is fair game though. I am sure Dr Feller has seen a significant uptick in business of late by increasing his profile with this thread, I would venture to say this uptick more than exceeds the number of potential candidates he puts off by his bedside manner. Gotta hand it to the guy though.

[Sethticles]

uptick more than exceeds the number of potential candidates he puts off by his bedside manner..

 

thats debatable

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Lileli,

Here is the exact quote from Dr. Feller you were curious about (1053)

 

 

 

As I suggested earlier an insensitive and classless choice of words by Dr. Feller which seems to be the norm.

 

Also it is apparent that again he simply glossed over the specific questions that I asked him;

1. What is the size of the mFue (mFUT) punch?

 

2. Why misrepresent this as FUE level scarring when in fact the punch on the video is significantly large than ANY FUE punch. A fallacious and inaccurate way to promote this new procedure.

 

3. I find it disconcerting that your own patient rep Spex clearly disagrees with you in regards to FUE yield. He has stated during several consultations for prospective Dr F. patients that the FUE vs FUT yield is equivalent. You suggested you thought nothing of it? Any reason why you and you patient rep aren't on the same page? Seems odd?

 

As many have suggested including the well respected Dr Bhatti this is all in an effort to promote & market this new procedure. He clearly isn't willing to discuss the specifics of the procedure only vague replies and misdirection?

 

So you changed the quote by editing in the "non believer" part. Correct? You just cherry picked two words, then added words of your own and then posted it as a quote of mine in a quote background. Very sneaky.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

have another cry Feller

 

Seth,

How does this childishness contribute anything?

[wazaam]

No intention to be sneaky whatsoever, regardless of how you interpret my post.

 

Again he is your direct quote;

#1053

 

That is not his challenge. His "challenge" is to compare the shear number of patients who have had FUT and seek his "repair" services to the shear number of patients who have had FUE and seek my "repair" services.

 

As I already wrote:

 

1. There are thousands of FUT patients for every one FUE patient so it is absurd by the numbers. To not understand this is to either be disingenuous or suffering from a severe learning disability.

 

 

Feel free to answer the other questions I have asked several times now. We are all looking forward to those answers.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Sorry Doc, you definitely said it, although not in that context of directly stating that the members have learning disabilities. Regardless, as an uncle to a nephew that has a learning disability himself, I found that comment to be offensive. With all due respect sir, using that term to make a point is highly inappropriate and unprofessional. You as a Doctor should know better. It's a serious problem impact many families. You have made some outstanding points on this thread, and I have a lot of respect for what you are trying to do here, but using that term the way you did was wrong.

 

He made up the quote and was very sneaky about it. He cherry picked two words and then added his own and then went the extra mile to make them appear in the form of a highlighted forum quote. Very sneaky.

 

I also have a nephew with a learning disability and don't find this turn of phrase to be offensive, inappropriate or unprofessional. Where I come from, Brooklyn NY, this is not offensive. You also found reference to "peanut gallery" as offensive. In this country it is a common phrase that refers to the audience as a third party and has no negative connotation whatsoever. I think you need to appreciate that when you participate on an international chat site that other people and cultures use different turns of phrases that you may find questionable or offensive from time to time.

Frankly, I find politically correct speech to be offensive as it is used far too often as a sword rather than a shield.

I can assure you, my use of "learning disabled" nor "peanut gallery" are pejorative.

 

To be sure though, when I am attacked I have to use harsher language which is directed at that particular person who attacked me. Disingenuous types like Was and Seth and the Bhatti clan cherry pick my words, or just invent new ones, and pass them off as something I said in general about everyone. Of course it's not true, but whose going to go back and catch them like we did with Waz?

[wazaam]

I am sure Dr Feller has seen a significant uptick in business of late by increasing his profile with this thread, I would venture to say this uptick more than exceeds the number of potential candidates he puts off by his bedside manner

 

Mav,

Respectfully I have to disagree. This isn't the reality show where all publicity good or bad is considered a good thing. If there weren't several world class physicians to choose from (FUT or FUE) it may be a different debate.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

No intention to be sneaky whatsoever, regardless of how you interpret my post.

 

Again he is your direct quote;

#1053

 

 

 

 

Feel free to answer the other questions I have asked several times now. We are all looking forward to those answers.

 

No intention to be sneaky?! You cherry picked two words, added your own, then passed it off as a quote of MINE in the form of a quote used by this chat forum software. Who do you think you're kidding? That's as sneaky as it gets.

 

It is this very kind of behavior that keeps almost all doctors from posting in these chat sites leaving the public to fumble around in the dark as you all so often do.

[wazaam]

Dr Feller,

 

#1053 was a direct quote from you. That is black & white.

 

 

 

I also have a nephew with a learning disability and don't find this turn of phrase to be offensive, inappropriate or unprofessional.

 

Well I do find it and you to be extremely offensive an unprofessional and can't imagine many disagreeing with my statement.

 

My brother has a learning disability, as well as my sister have being a special education teacher for over 15 years now. If you empathized and understood what they are dealing with on a day to day basis I would hope you wouldn't continue make light of it.

 

Lets not try and use your hometown (Brooklyn) as an excuse to make this more socially acceptable. I don't think this is something that you are going to get a lot of support on regardless of the location worldwide or even in your hometown.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Of course he did.

 

If he didn't he would threaten litigation as he has in the past with his unhappy patient(s). This has happened in the past when his patients results were poor and they presented them to the forums.

 

That is what I look for in a physician when things don't work out! Pardon the sarcasm.

 

Class act....

 

Another lie.

 

I have never threatened a patient with litigation because patients were unhappy and posted on forums. Every doctor gets that from time to time. I have, however, actually brought litigation against patients who have defamed me, attempted to blackmail me, or legally harassed me. You should hope you are never the victim of these types of people.

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Dr Feller,

 

#1053 was a direct quote from you. That is black & white.

 

 

 

 

 

Well I do find it and you to be extremely offensive an unprofessional and can't imagine many disagreeing with my statement.

 

My brother has a learning disability, as well as my sister have being a special education teacher for over 15 years now. If you empathized and understood what they are dealing with on a day to day basis I would hope you wouldn't continue make light of it.

 

Lets not try and use your hometown (Brooklyn) as an excuse to make this more socially acceptable. I don't think this is something that you are going to get a lot of support on regardless of the location worldwide or even in your hometown.

 

I don't make any excuses and I don't apologize. Amazing how you are so offensive and nasty and yet so sensitive. You aren't fooling anyone.

[wazaam]

Dr Feller,

I have never been directly offensive to you at all until reading the comments that were insensitive and hit home when you made you comments in thread #1053.

 

If I was trying to be sneaky which I was not then I wouldn't have shown the two quotes that I sent when questioned from Mav? Makes no sense and I have no vested interest in any of this debate at all.

 

Again I sent a direct quote of what was said in thread #1053 and I don't feel that I was being sneaky any any means. If nothing else maybe not savvy with how I quoted Dr Bhatti's post originally with the two words that were used. Even if this claim of yours of me being "sneaky" was viable you said the words that we have all referenced now many times.

 

I think I may made my point clear now several times. This back and forth semantics argument you seem to be presenting isn't productive to anyone so lets move on.

[wazaam]

Another lie.

 

I have never threatened a patient with litigation because patients were unhappy and posted on forums. Every doctor gets that from time to time. I have, however, actually brought litigation against patients who have defamed me, attempted to blackmail me, or legally harassed me. You should hope you are never the victim of these types of people.

 

Dr Feller,

I have no idea what happened with this behind the scenes but the below thread is one of the examples I was referencing that you termed another lie (still confused where any lies came from as they were direct quotes). As a prospective patient it was a bit alarming but to be frank & fair I have no idea what went on behind the scenes other than what was posted.

 

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/163670-dr-feller-proposing-sue-me-my-comments-htn-my-response.html

[Sethticles]

Seth,

How does this childishness contribute anything?

 

it doesn't - i personally want this thread to lighten up, it gets nasty here..... i did apologise to you, why not quote me on that

[Sethticles]

To be sure though, when I am attacked I have to use harsher language which is directed at that particular person who attacked me. Disingenuous types like Was and Seth and the Bhatti clan cherry pick my words, or just invent new ones, and pass them off as something I said in general about everyone. Of course it's not true, but whose going to go back and catch them like we did with Waz?

 

thanks i feel so special

[wazaam]

it doesn't - i personally want this thread to lighten up, it gets nasty here..... i did apologise to you, why not quote me on that

 

I agree Seth. As I said to Dr. Feller directly, his comments hit home and maybe in his mind he didn't feel it was so offensive.

 

Regardless of how anyone feels about Dr. Feller he has a wealth of knowledge and clinical experience and he is willing to share it on a public forum. That in itself is very brave and I do commend you for that.

 

Let try move on from any of these personal attacks as Seth suggested.

[Dr Tejinder Bhatti]

Dear Dr. Feller,

 

The Beehner study had nothing to do with FUE. It was a study comparing chubby grafts vs. skeletonized grafts from SUBDIVIDING follicular units. FUE had no part in the study therefore you cannot make assumptions. It does however show a trend of you making claims with no scientific proof and modifying reality to match the truth that you wish for people to believe. Skeletonization is not one of the three "detrimental" forces you have been trying to convince everyone are so important and you still have not proven the three forces (or it is four now with skeletonized grafts?) are so detrimental that they cannot be overcome. It is your responsibilty to back up your claims with the proof and until then it is only your opinion.

 

Would you mind addressing the issue of how your absolute assault on FUE as a primary treatment coincides with the announcement by Dr. Blake that you and he are partners and the announcement of "mFUE"? Four controversial threads were started by you or Dr. Blake in a two week window. The announcement of your partnership, the announcement of "mFUE", the comparison of "Strip vs. FUE vs. mFUE" and "FUT is more popular than FUE". Would you also mind clarifying if Dr. Blake was working with you behind the scenes while he was an "unbiased" moderator for HRN?

 

Post #5 in the following thread is where I believe Dr. Blake's "opinion" began to change;

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178376-my-public-service-announcement.html

 

"I've had the opportunity over the last year, however, to really start observing and interacting with live hair transplant procedures, and my opinion changed. I've come to the conclusion that FUE yields are simply more variable. The extraction method itself just puts a lot of stress and strain on super fragile mini-organs, and the failure rate is simply much higher. These grafts just are not as viable as grafts carefully dissected under microscopes. "

 

"However, I like taking this thought process one step further. What we really need to do is figure out a way to obtain strip-level yield with FUE-level scarring. This, in my opinion, should be the goal."

 

Poster Scar5 seems to have an almost prophetic outlook on Dr. Blake's post;

 

"People have said FUE grafts are more vulnerable for decades. Of course we all want FUE scarring and strip yield. So ask what the post is really about."

 

What was it "really about"?

 

Dr. Blake addresses Scar5;

 

" I studied the theoretical aspects of FUE for a number of years. Throughout this process, I convinced myself it was a superior procedure and produced growth on par with strip. In the real world, however, this theory simply didn't hold weight. Now that I've seen this stuff "first hand," I've come to realizations that guys like Dr. Feller came to years ago - as they were in the "hands on" phase during that time and I was still reading about FUE in textbooks."

 

Two months later we have an official announcement;

 

"After two years of training, Dr. Feller and I decided to continue our relationship and partner in a new practice: Feller and Bloxham Hair Transplant Surgery."

 

Dr. Blake was presenting himself to be an unbiased moderator of this forum while working with Dr. Feller in the background and then forming a partnership. This partnership was in motion well before the partnership announcement as was the creation of "mFUE" which, as evidenced by previous comments by Dr. Blake, was in development for quite some time where the reason for Dr. Blake's conversion of thought was motivated by his secret partnership with Dr. Feller.

 

Now we have this multi-angle marketing strategy to divide and conquer. Deflect away from mFUE, villify FUE and present FUT as the superior option then bring mFUE to the forefront as the perfect compromise, which is being patented by the way.

 

I think it is clear why after multiple (maybe a dozen?) requests for proof of these "detrimental forces" via the standard known as the SCIENTIFIC METHOD we still have deflection, avoidance and insults. Dr. Feller was, quite literally, silent from January 2014 up until the announcement of mFUE and his partnership with Dr. Blake in June, 2015. One need only perform a search for his posting history to see the 1.5 year gap.

 

Kind regards,

 

Dr Tejinder Bhatti

Edited August 28, 2015 by Dr. Tejinder Bhatti

[newbie33]

The first rule of Hair Club appears to be 'We rarely talk about hair'.

 

So how about this question: are there any studies which evidence the yield from either strip or FUE? Proper studies where grafts are counted on numerous patients over a period of time, demonstrating how many grew, as opposed to "Looks like about 95% of them grew to me, guv" (which admittedly with the right eyes of an experienced surgeon may not be far off the mark, but it's not entirely objective).

[densedream]

Dear Dr. Feller,

 

The Beehner study had nothing to do with FUE. It was a study comparing chubby grafts vs. skeletonized grafts from SUBDIVIDING follicular units. FUE had no part in the study therefore you cannot make assumptions. It does however show a trend of you making claims with no scientific proof and modifying reality to match the truth that you wish for people to believe. Skeletonization is not one of the three "detrimental" forces you have been trying to convince everyone are so important and you still have not proven the three forces (or it is four now with skeletonized grafts?) are so detrimental that they cannot be overcome. It is your responsibilty to back up your claims with the proof and until then it is only your opinion.

 

Would you mind addressing the issue of how your absolute assault on FUE as a primary treatment coincides with the announcement by Dr. Blake that you and he are partners and the announcement of "mFUE"? Four controversial threads were started by you or Dr. Blake in a two week window. The announcement of your partnership, the announcement of "mFUE", the comparison of "Strip vs. FUE vs. mFUE" and "FUT is more popular than FUE". Would you also mind clarifying if Dr. Blake was working with you behind the scenes while he was an "unbiased" moderator for HRN?

 

Post #5 in the following thread is where I believe Dr. Blake's "opinion" began to change;

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178376-my-public-service-announcement.html

 

"I've had the opportunity over the last year, however, to really start observing and interacting with live hair transplant procedures, and my opinion changed. I've come to the conclusion that FUE yields are simply more variable. The extraction method itself just puts a lot of stress and strain on super fragile mini-organs, and the failure rate is simply much higher. These grafts just are not as viable as grafts carefully dissected under microscopes. "

 

"However, I like taking this thought process one step further. What we really need to do is figure out a way to obtain strip-level yield with FUE-level scarring. This, in my opinion, should be the goal."

 

Poster Scar5 seems to have an almost prophetic outlook on Dr. Blake's post;

 

"People have said FUE grafts are more vulnerable for decades. Of course we all want FUE scarring and strip yield. So ask what the post is really about."

 

What was it "really about"?

 

Dr. Blake addresses Scar5;

 

" I studied the theoretical aspects of FUE for a number of years. Throughout this process, I convinced myself it was a superior procedure and produced growth on par with strip. In the real world, however, this theory simply didn't hold weight. Now that I've seen this stuff "first hand," I've come to realizations that guys like Dr. Feller came to years ago - as they were in the "hands on" phase during that time and I was still reading about FUE in textbooks."

 

Two months later we have an official announcement;

 

"After two years of training, Dr. Feller and I decided to continue our relationship and partner in a new practice: Feller and Bloxham Hair Transplant Surgery."

 

Dr. Blake was presenting himself to be an unbiased moderator of this forum while working with Dr. Feller in the background and then forming a partnership. This partnership was in motion well before the partnership announcement as was the creation of "mFUE" which, as evidenced by previous comments by Dr. Blake, was in development for quite some time where the reason for Dr. Blake's conversion of thought was motivated by his secret partnership with Dr. Feller.

 

Now we have this multi-angle marketing strategy to divide and conquer. Deflect away from mFUE, villify FUE and present FUT as the superior option then bring mFUE to the forefront as the perfect compromise, which is being patented by the way.

 

I think it is clear why after multiple (maybe a dozen?) requests for proof of these "detrimental forces" via the standard known as the SCIENTIFIC METHOD we still have deflection, avoidance and insults. Dr. Feller was, quite literally, silent from January 2014 up until the announcement of mFUE and his partnership with Dr. Blake in June, 2015. One need only perform a search for his posting history to see the 1.5 year gap.

 

Kind regards,

 

Dr Tejinder Bhatti

 

I have been quiet for all of this discussion even though I wanted to mention and call out what was seemingly obvious with Dr. Fellers and Blakes agenda. Nothing really more to say because Dr. Bhatti just put it all out there way better than I could and English is my first language. I commend Dr. Bhatti for standing up to Dr. Feller as no other doctor on this forum would. It absolutely proves his dedication, commitment, and belief in the FUE procedure. Anyone that has read this entire thread can deduce the motives of Dr. Feller and his egomaniacal tactics and insults. At the end of the day, let the results speak for themselves, not rhetoric with obvious self interest.

[matt1164]

I think less of dr. feller now after this thread. I think more of Dr. Bhatti now. If I wasn't locked into another surgeon I would fly to him for fue than stay in my hometown for a procedure with dr. feller. its just my opinion and I am entitled to it.

[lorenzo]

This post is getting ridiculous. From name calling to insults it is very hard for anybody reading this to make sense. After challenging the intentions of an ex moderator, you have now questioned the whole integrity of this forum.

 

"Peanut Gallery" with "learning disabilities"???

 

Rather than being an educational discussion look what it has turned into.

 

This is my opinion,

[densedream]

This post is getting ridiculous. From name calling to insults it is very hard for anybody reading this to make sense. After challenging the intentions of an ex moderator, you have now questioned the whole integrity of this forum.

 

"Peanut Gallery" with "learning disabilities"???

 

Rather than being an educational discussion look what it has turned into.

 

This is my opinion,

 

Dr. Bhatti was being facetious with that title because that is what Dr. Feller insinuated and posted about some of the forum members that were replying in this thread. You have to read and follow that entire thread to understand.

[Melvin- Admin]

This post is getting ridiculous. From name calling to insults it is very hard for anybody reading this to make sense. After challenging the intentions of an ex moderator, you have now questioned the whole integrity of this forum.

 

"Peanut Gallery" with "learning disabilities"???

 

Rather than being an educational discussion look what it has turned into.

 

This is my opinion,

 

I think it's more of connecting the dots, Dr. Feller also did ridicule Dr. Bhattis FUE technique publicly, I think it's fair game Dr. Bhatti calls it how he sees it.