I'm down to Hasson or Rahal (looking for LOTS of advice)

[bonkerstonker]

Best thing I ever did was start meds 10 years ago. I feel So lucky and blessed my balding happened in the period they were available if I'd of been ten years older I'd of missed them and spent most of my life in misery.

[El Nino]

MGZ,

 

I am the guy who's HT "sold you" on Dr. Rahal AND the one who's looks "much, much worse" after....confused?....let me explain.

 

Take a look at this pic of me aged 28 before any surgery.

 

 

You will see I still had some NATIVE hair in my crown which was skilfully transplanted around by Dr. Rahal which meant I still had it when my HT grew in. But I knew getting a HT wouldn't stop the rest of my hair falling out naturally, this included the NATIVE hair still present in my crown.

 

So I started taking a drug called Finasteride aka Propecia/Proscar. Then when my HT grew in and finally matured (this took about 15 months, crowns take longer) I was very happy.

 

But then this last Christmas I had a brainwave that I would stop taking Finasteride. The reason for this was that I thought it was causing my weight to yo yo up and down all the time by messing with my hormones. But then a few months later.............I noticed that the hair in my crown was thinner! So I lost some hair in my crown, was it transplanted hair or native hair? I would say it was the native hair which you can see in the pic above. The reason for this was..........errrrrrrrm my brainwave.

 

The reason my crown also looked a bit thin in my "good pics". Take a look at this pic of me aged 28 before any surgery.

 

 

You will see that Dr. Rahal didn't attempt to try and fill in all of my crown. An area approx 15cm2 was left at the bottom. The reason for this was that I would have needed more than 2800 grafts to get a good result. And transplanting more than that AND going into my lower crown would have been too aggressive considering I was only aged 28.

 

So I knew there was a good chance I would need another HT in the future. So I am now nearly aged 32 and I am three months out from my second HT of 2597 grafts. Which is just starting to grow in and I will update soon. Yes I have now had 5400 grafts into my crown, but I am fortunate to have above average donor supply.

 

Anyway, that is enough about me. The title of this thread is "I'm down to Hasson or Rahal (looking for lots of advice)". I would be very surprised if either would touch your crown considering you are only aged 24 and not on Finasteride. I suspect your expectations of a HT would also be too high.

 

So my advice is get on Finasteride and stay on it and don't have any brainwaves about stopping. And don't think about any sexual side effects at all........especially just before you are about to get on the job.

 

Then when you are aged 28............

[corvettester]

MGZ,

 

I can appreciate your qualms regarding Propecia given its potential sexual side effects.

 

Few people on these forums understand what it’s like to be 24 years old, heterosexual and single in NYC. The high female-to-male ratio, coupled with the anonymity of a progressive, big city, make NYC is a straight man’s paradise… not to mention that the sizeable homosexual population only helps our odds! We’re killing it here!

 

So, to say the least, I get where you’re coming from buddy.

 

I am very weary of taking meds and I think you should be too. You don’t want to be one of the exceptions. It really hit home with me about how you “know your body.” I’m the same way: I work out daily, I take care of myself, I know my body well.

 

I don’t take meds and I won’t take them unless my situation gets desperate. Having said that, I do consider your situation desperate.

 

Your crown is going, big time—once it’s gone, it’s gone. Your temples are already gone and your hairline has significantly receded or matured. Based on your photos, I also see what appears to be thinning in the frontal third and midsection too. In my opinion, you have a clear pattern emerging, possibly NW5/6.

 

The fact that you’re only 24 and easily a NW3 Vertex isn’t helping the equation either. Therefore, you’re going to have to start preparing for a worst-case scenario, in my opinion. In your case, I think the benefits of trying Propecia far outweigh the risks.

 

I can see that you’re under the spell of dense packing, hence your selection of Rahal and H&W— the undisputed masters of dense packing!:cool: However, I don’t think you’re a good candidate for it at all because, when the time comes, you’ll have too much hair loss without enough donor supply. I imagine that they’ll tell you as much.

 

You don’t really have the option of an HT yet, not at age 24. Even if you did go for an HT in the next couple years, it’d have to be really conservative because of your potential for future loss, so forget about dense packing.

 

You’re going to need a shit-ton of grafts to cover your crown and another shit-ton to do your hairline and temples. Then you'll have to deal with your frontal third. Without Propecia, your mid-section is going and even more of your crown! :eek:

 

Judging by your current loss, I would say that right now, at age 24, you need a minimum of 5,000-6,000 grafts to get to where you want to be. I’d say 2,000-3,000 in the hairline and temples, and another 2,000-3,000 in the crown. But this is the problem: that is what you need right now, at age 24 and your current amount of hair loss; if you go through with it, you’ll probably need another 5,000-6,000 again in 10 years. Will you have enough donor in the bank to finance this? Of course not.

 

I don’t see any reason to assume that you have above average donor density. Let’s assume you have average donor supply. You’re looking at approximately 7,500 grafts between FUT and FUE that you have available. That’s not much, and god forbid you have less than average.

 

So all advice regarding an HT is essentially moot at this point considering that you’re most likely going to lose a lot more hair. This is why everyone is telling you to wait it out and get on Propecia, because it’s just too soon to say.

 

As for your questions regarding cloning, you’re in an excellent position to find out because you simply must wait a good 5 years before you seriously consider an HT. I asked the same thing to a well respected doctor once...

 

I said “Isn’t cloning just 5-10 years away?”

To which he replied “That is what they were saying 5-10 years ago!”

 

I saw the post where you shaved your head and I think it’s a look that you can rock, provided that you feel comfortable with it. It looks good on you, but personally, I always prefer hair on just about anyone for the simple reason that it allows for options.

 

As for financing, it can be done easily for less than $150 a month. Most plans offer 0% for the first year. I know this because I set my first HT up on a 24 month financing schedule, however, I ended up paying it off in about 6 months. Some companies offer 48 month plans.

 

It’s good to start doing consults now; you should have several. Since you’re in NYC, I would suggest consulting with Dr. Dorin, Dr. True, Dr. Wesley, Dr. Epstein and Dr. Bernstein. The more consults, the better. All five of them are relatively conservative and they’re not going to give you any false hopes of regaining that “soccer hairline” as you called it.

 

Yes, H&W and Rahal are great. They’re viable options for you in the future, among others. However, you don’t need to travel to Vancouver or Ottawa for them to tell you what any ethical doctor in NYC will tell you. So continue with your research and get on meds in the meantime so when it is time to take the plunge, you have the knowledge and realistic expectations that make for a success case.

 

If it's any help, I had my first HT in October of 2010, at the age of 29. I just had my second HT two weeks ago. My hairline and temples started receding around age 25. I did my first consultation at True & Dorin at age 28. The doc told me to wait a year to see what happened. So I did, and from there we developed a plan of action.

 

I live in NYC too. If you want to see my results in person or talk on the phone, contact me via PM and I’ll be glad to help in any way. You can see my hair loss website and photo album in the link below.

 

 

peace out,

 

Corvettester

Edited August 22, 2011 by corvettester

[NEWHAIRPLEASE]

That was a great and very informative post corvette!! Glad your back!

[SecretlyThinning]

Take the finasteride (Propecia/Procar). I've been taking it since I was 24, when I finally admitted to myself that my hairline was receding. Given the fact that there are a variety of balding patterns in my family, I decided not to wait and see if I lost it from my crown, too. I'm sure there's some miniaturization in my crown, but it's something only I notice because my hair is finer than it was when I was 17, 18, and 19 years old.

 

After taking Propecia for a year, Dr. Dorin could see that not only had my hairloss NOT progressed, but the texture of the hair in my crown AS WELL AS in my hairline (where it was receding, it was getting fine and fuzzy first) had completely changed. The hair cuticle was both smoother and stronger.

 

Seriously, get on it. The sexual side effects may be real for some people, but for some who think they're experiencing them, they may also be imagined. Less of a desire and inability to achieve an erection can totally be in your head.

 

I'm gay (obviously), and half the gay men my age and older that I know take Propecia--many of them out of sheer FEAR of losing their hair, even though there's no evidence to suggest they actually are. None of us are suffering sexual side effects. Ha!

 

I doubt it's a sexual orientation thing, either. A dude is a dude is a dude, and you will most likely NOT experience sexual side effects.

 

I understand about the relaxing, too. I have very coarse, curly hair and have done the same. (I actually had a nice "chemical haircut" about 10 years ago from a relaxer that was left on too long.) If you do grow your hair back out, I find keratin treatments to be great for smoothing out the hair and giving it a nice texture...and it won't f*ck with your scalp! (I use Coppola Keratin Complex, which is formaldehyde-free.)

 

For the crown, I'd also suggest using Toppik, xFusion fibers, or Caboki fibers. Seriously. I've used these fibers on me AND others. A transplant surgeon would likely be reticent to work on your crown just yet. They'll probably address your hairline first. Hair building fibers on your crown in the meantime will give you a great result -- especially if you want to book a modeling job or even just take new pics for your portfolio.

 

In the meantime, I'd suggest you take Propecia...especially since you're thinning so much in the crown.

 

I just had my first HT with Dr. True and Dr. Dorin, and like corvettester, I can attest to their work. If nothing else, schedule a consultation.

[SharkBait]

I read this thread with considerable interest as I am just starting to do my research on the subject of HT. I was on Propecia for 4-5 years then stopped as another member attested to having a "brainwave." Terrible mistake. I've lost a lot of what I was holding on to and now a HT seems to be the only solution. I experienced little to no side-effects with the meds. It was mostly a mental fear of what could happen but I performed without fault! I'm going back today to renew my prescription. I've also been using Nioxin shampoo and conditioner but frankly I haven't noticed any damn change from them. I'll be picking up some Rogaine 5% based on some of the recommendations I've seen on the forum.

 

So...MGZ, what if anything have you done in the last 4 months?

[mattj]

I was on Propecia for 4-5 years then stopped as another member attested to having a "brainwave."

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Did they use the word "brainwave"?

[SharkBait]

Here's the quote:

 

But then this last Christmas I had a brainwave that I would stop taking Finasteride. The reason for this was that I thought it was causing my weight to yo yo up and down all the time by messing with my hormones. But then a few months later.............I noticed that the hair in my crown was thinner! So I lost some hair in my crown, was it transplanted hair or native hair? I would say it was the native hair which you can see in the pic above. The reason for this was..........errrrrrrrm my brainwave.

[mattj]

Oh, I see. I thought it must refer to some kind of side effect in the brain.

[luigi]

I am 24 years old, I started losing it about a year and a half a go, in the last year it's just been rapid. I'm a heavy smoker and my diets always been pretty crappy.

Ironically I've always been an athlete and also used to do a lot of weight training, and then stopped 2 years ago.

 

I used to relax my hair ALOT, more than recommended, I used a product used for african american hair types that contained FORMALDEHYDE, a chemical that was pulled off shelves not too long ago. I feel this contributed to my loss a lot.

My father has all his hair, my mothers father started when he was 40. I'm using 5% rogaine foam, it's working minimal, I don't expect it to fill in my vortex.

 

So I'm down to Hasson and Rahal. From what I've seen, I like Rahals hairlines a lot, and NOT just because they are mostly densely packed, they just look natural. I've also seen a lot of better vortex's with Rahal. On the other hand I've seen great Hasson results and massive sessions, but Rahal just seems more intimate to me? And Montreal is closer to the Toronto area. Don't get me wrong, they are both admirable.

 

I really don't know what to do, I feel I'm too young and should wait until I'm at least 30, by then I should be completely bald. I have heard a lot of people here say that the vortex is the "black hole" of HT's. If I got strip HT I would want as much density as possible, the soccer hair I had when I was 20, probably 8000+ grafts. I would also try to QUIT smoking for at least a year to improve circulation and start working out again.

Financing will be necessary, I've looked at some plans but they still seem expensive.

Can anyone confirm what the minimum monthly payment is?

 

I used to do a lot of modeling, ha you should see me try and get jobs now. Things have really changed, less woman and different treatment that is not due to to lack of confidence, that is just a generic explanation for people who don't understand. I have plenty of confidence and personality. It's really depressing and as much as I move forward and get over it, something occurs that just brings me down and pisses me off.

 

Looking forward to all your responses, hope I get a lot. Please don't recommend propecia I am always susceptible to sexual side effects with the meds I've taken in the past.

Cheers!

 

I forgot to add, the classical music in most of Rahal's vids is a brilliant touch.

look mate, first thing to do is get on propecia or equivalent, forget about rogain, it wont stop the loss.

this way you will help the hair and give yourself more time to make your choice.

 

as far as rahal and H&W are concerned, i think that they are both very very good ans the results you get will be as good as is achievable today, anywhere.

 

By all means, refine your choice down to the fine details, but relax, for FUT they are two of the best.

[MGZ]

Wow this is old, I wish I listened to you people when I was younger. Damn propeciahelp.com to hell.

 

Here's my story:

 

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/62293-MGZ-Story-(FIN-1mg-DUT-0-5-once-a-week-Quit-minox-PICTURES)

[Mickey85]

Wow this is old, I wish I listened to you people when I was younger. Damn propeciahelp.com to hell.

 

Here's my story:

 

MGZ Story - (FIN 1mg, DUT 0.5 once a week. Quit minox? PICTURES))

 

Dude, you are a good looking guy and have a head that looks cool bald(like Jason Statham). If I were in your situation I would shave my head with a razor and be done with it. I have a bumpy head and could never get away with a size 2 or 3 clipper due to my awkward head shape. If you do go through surgery(either FUT or FUE) you will no longer be able to shave you head past a size 2 clipper(size 3 if FUT and maybe size 1 if you go through FUE). Keep up the Proprecia, Rogaine and use a good shampoo with ketoconazole, Regenepure is probably the best as it contains Saw Palmetto and other goodies in it. Revita is also very good, probably a better quality shampoo but has less good stuff in it.

 

I would wait a little while and see if the medications help your crown and mid-scalp. Then you would only need the frontal 1/3 done and it looks like you have good donor density.

[headbangerguy]

Have you considered micropigmentation? Don't know if this is suggested already, but I reckon you'd rock with it.

[TommyLucchese]

I've only read page one but I want to disagree with the person who said "forget about women if you take propecia, it will kill your libido". I've been on propecia since March 2010 and I am, it's fair to say, somewhat rampant.

[chrisdav]

I totally agree Tommy

[MGZ]

Thanks for the encouragement, but I've been getting mad bald comments lately by girls.

I'm not trying to get married till my mid 30s, so trying to mingle and find great looking women is almost impossible now.

When you're in a bar, personality is not most important, law of attraction is, and there are dozens of good looking dudes with hair and a good personality.

The only way I can do well is in a Jazz bar where girls are in their 30s.

[Mickey85]

Thanks for the encouragement, but I've been getting mad bald comments lately by girls.

I'm not trying to get married till my mid 30s, so trying to mingle and find great looking women is almost impossible now.

When you're in a bar, personality is not most important, law of attraction is, and there are dozens of good looking dudes with hair and a good personality.

The only way I can do well is in a Jazz bar where girls are in their 30s.

 

I can understand that perspective too. What are your current plans?

[Davis91]

I have to agree with Mickey85 in the first instance---you have a good head shape and facial features and if I was in your shoes I would just keep shaving it, working out and not worry about a damn thing. Like a young Billy Zane. My head would be way too bumpy like others to do this, so lucky you. Disarm all those chicks who make bald comments by making them laugh and make them feel confident around you. It will boost your own confidence too and a virtuous circle will emerge: chicks, more chicks, less worry, more chicks. Do this until your are 30 and then IF, and only IF, you are still terribly bothered by all of this start the consultations with the doctors. In the meantime, embrace your luck of being a handsome fellow who can do the head shaving thing and look good.

[Mickey85]

I have to agree with Mickey85 in the first instance---you have a good head shape and facial features and if I was in your shoes I would just keep shaving it, working out and not worry about a damn thing. Like a young Billy Zane. My head would be way too bumpy like others to do this, so lucky you. Disarm all those chicks who make bald comments by making them laugh and make them feel confident around you. It will boost your own confidence too and a virtuous circle will emerge: chicks, more chicks, less worry, more chicks. Do this until your are 30 and then IF, and only IF, you are still terribly bothered by all of this start the consultations with the doctors. In the meantime, embrace your luck of being a handsome fellow who can do the head shaving thing and look good.

 

My sentiments exactly! I had a friend of mine who had less hair than I did and was average looking(this one chick even told me that about him) but when we went out, he would steal the show most of the time!

[spreadlocks]

MGZ. My situation is similar to yours. When I was about 22 I had what doctors diagnosed as depression even though I wasn't depressed. Anyway, they stuck me on an antidepressant and it completely destroyed my libido. Like annihilated it within days. I felt no sexual desire at all. I came off it and it returned, then doctors put me on another antidepressant called sertraline which again destroyed my sex drive completely. Again it returned when I came off it.

 

Anyway, this made me think that I would be at a high risk of libido side effects on finestride. However I started taking it 3 - 4 years ago and have not had any noticeable side effects at all. Nothing. Also it has completely stabilised my hair loss to the point that I do not think I have lost any hair at all since I started it.