I'm down to Hasson or Rahal (looking for LOTS of advice)

[MGZ]

Ok some people are saying the new grafts are permanent and others are saying they will fall out again, I'm confused.

 

hairthere, why is density not achievable with the new grafts? I've seen a lot of videos from both H&W and Rahal where the crown was back to normal.

 

What is the word on cloning anyways, next decade?

[hairthere]

mgz, density is achievable but it will never be as dense as it once was (we simply don't have enough donor grafts). You don't start to realize you are balding until a certain percentage of native hair is gone (I think I recall hearing 50%). So, you can achieve density but it will only be an illusion of density. Any native hair you have helps with this. Now, say you have a HT and it looks dense, but then you lose more native hair--it will obviously look less dense. As Aaron pointed out, hairloss is progressive.

 

In the end it's a personal choice to stay on the meds or not. No doctor will force you to stay on them. I stopped taking them after my second HT as I would rather have just lost the native hair (as it was going to fall out anyway) and just get another HT.

 

And the HT grafts are permanent. They are ideally taken from a DHT-resistant zone. They do fall out immediately post-op and then start to re-grow.

[jessie1]

Aaron,

 

Had another butchers at your website just now.... very exciting. Congrats.

 

MGZ,

 

I am in the minority on this thread regarding my thoughts on going ahead. I am not 'gung ho' and my experience will tell you that I opted for the HT route far too prematurely.

 

Your situation is different and I respectfully feel that you are heading for a high Norwood. Propecia may stabalize and it may not.

 

Much has been said about the physical issues associated with opting for a Ht at 24 years. Lets briefly discuss the mental aspect. This all comes down to how YOU feel, not withstanding 'expert' advice from the Doc. Some people have advised waiting until you are 30. If you do not think about your hair loss constantly and becom increasingly depressed about it then I can see the merit in waiting it out, for all the sensible reasons lready mentioned. If you foresee 6 years of misery in waiting until you are 30 and effectively throwing the rest of your 20s away then I would strongly consider going ahead now.

 

You already know where you are heading and have been realistic about this. There will be continued loss post Ht which donor supply pending, may result in a second HT.

 

You are the best person to figure out where you stand mentally and I feel that this is an extremely important factor in you decision making. Furthermore, a great Doc, and even a good doc, will be able to assess your situation and projected loss and will perform the surgery with projection in mind.

 

Propecia: The jury is out with me. My experience is inconclusive. I have been on propecia for 2 years and I have continued to lose hair all over. Who knows what my situation would have been if I had not have been on the meds.... Judging the unknown is therefore impossible. All I would say is that test results are over optimistic for want of a better term, not just based on my experience, but many other different experiences shared by other forum members. I feel that these real life experienes are much more credible.

 

MGZ, why not go for consultations with both and see where you stand. See what the Docs say after examining you first hand.

 

Its all awfully confusing and everybody will have different ideas. I would definitely get back in the gym and change for lifestyle around. This in itself may give you that mental boost to hold off. You won't know until you give it a shot.

 

All the best,

 

Jess

[aaron1234]

Yes to the above advice. When I said you will continue to lose hair after a transplant I meant native hair - not hair taken from the permanent zone.

[MGZ]

I am really obsessing over this now, I feel like I have OCD, I surf at least a couple hours a day on the subject.

for me right now the crown is the biggest issue and more unattractive in my eyes.

 

Im still uncertain as to why I shouldn't expect maximum density like when I was 20, shouldn't 5000+ grafts in my crown area do the trick? Assuming I am a good candidate of course.

 

Hopefully I can set up an appointment for September.

 

And Matt, what the hell happened to your Rahal pic?

[bonkerstonker]

Mgz yes 5000 in the crown would do the trick but you'd have to be barking mad to do it unless you had well well welllll above average donor hair because you'd look like a right prat one day if you had a 5000 grat full crown ht and all the front fell out as you wouldn't have enough donor to make the front look good!

 

I don't know about you but i've never in my life seen anyone with a afro crown and a thin/bald front lol

[lorenzo]

You have lost alot of hair in the last two years. I cant picture any of these two doctor performing surgery on a 24 year old with aggressive hairloss until your hairloss has stablized. Looking at your donor you look like you are heading towards either a NW6 to NW7. Since you dont want to take meds which is your choose even with crown work chances are you will continue to loose around the new transplant. This will cause an island that looks funny and requires you to have another transplant if your donor permits it. That is something very hard for any doctor to fully predict that is why they usually dont like to perform surgery on younger patients with aggressive hairloss that arent taking meds. There are plenty of less ethical doctor that would probaly do it but many ethical doctor would requre you to wait.

 

Just my opinion

[Michael5577]

It's simply impossible to go wrong with Dr. Rahal. He's someone who wants to be the best in the world at what he does. I'd say that Dr. Rahal is the Federer of hair transplants.

[lorenzo]

If that is the case then Dr. Hasson would be the Novak Djokovic. I agree whenever you deal with a great doctor you cant go wrong. Although most ethic doctor dont worry about the ego of being the best in the world since there is no way of judging since no two patients are the same.

[mattj]

 

And Matt, what the hell happened to your Rahal pic?

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about. (?)

[Jotronic]

MGZ,

 

5000 would do wonders for the crown but the problem lies in your total donor supply. The average patient has roughly 6500 grafts available on the low end and 8500 grafts on the high end. This is with "x" number of surgeries to get these numbers, being 2, 3, 4 surgeries or whatever. Once it is gone it is gone and you can't make any more. If you are somewhere in the middle then you'd be using the majority of your total donor supply in the crown with relatively little hair left for the front when, not if, it goes.

[Sigildark]

I don't believe the facts either, it's clearly affecting more people.

If I started propecia I would probably be smooth sailing at first, but years down the road it is just inevitable, I don't care what anyone says. I'm not bashing the drug, I'm sure it works for a lot of people but I just can't take the risk right now, I know my body.

 

I'm not going to harp on this too much but TBH it seems some people are still living in the past when it comes to propecia sides and strictly going with the FDA trial findings. Post FDA approval use has unveiled additional risks in the use of finasteride that some people just don't seem to clue into to. It's frustrating to see people spouting out incorrect information, continually.

 

Such as "Besides, if you do experience impotence it will go away when you discontinue taking the drug."

 

It may be the most likely outcome but as a statement it's false, Merks documentation even states as such. Persistent post use side effects are a fact for some people. And it's not just about sexual sides. If your are succeptible to depression, lower DHT levels can play havoc with your mental health. Merck also has updated their docs to state that depression can be triggered by finasteride.

 

Also the risk of side effects is greater then 1%.

 

Anyhow i digress. All i can say to anyone is do your homework using credible and up to date sources while you carry out your research as to wether this is for you. For most it will be fine. But speaking in absolute terms is flat out wrong with the information that is out there today.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Sigildark

[bonkerstonker]

If that is the case then Dr. Hasson would be the Novak Djokovic. I agree whenever you deal with a great doctor you cant go wrong. Although most ethic doctor dont worry about the ego of being the best in the world since there is no way of judging since no two patients are the same.

 

Id say hasson is the nadal as he's my favourite player lol.

 

I've seen and heard Dr Hasson imply he's the best in the world on quite a few occasions! And hardly anyone disagreed with him, i admire people like that! I think supreme confidence is what you need in a surgeon i don't think i'd have a transplant with anyone who didn't think they were the best in the world.

[MGZ]

Yikes NW7, that's depressing. I hope I'm not there by 30 years old.

I agree with you all, I'm too young and it's progressed a lot since two years ago.

Not sure if this is relevant, but I think working out so much after my cycle of decahedron from back when I was 17, then abruptly stopping when I was 21 while still smoking excessively, had some contribution.

I'm also think formaldehyde sped up the process, and wearing my hat rather tight all the time.

 

Working out a lot should induce testosterone and speed up the process, but I think my body when into shock when I stopped being so active. maybe I'm wrong.

 

 

Anyways, I hear Dr Cooley is exploring new options but it is ridiculously expensive and not 100% effective, yet, so lot's of donar hair is still needed.

 

My question is, how long do you guys think until this is incorporated into clinics like H&W, and Rahal, etc, and NW7's can have a full head of hair by cloning a few grafts.

 

Though this is impressive, I could never be content with a result like this:

 

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-85762.html

Edited August 12, 2011 by MGZ

[hairthere]

I don't think you'll ever see H&W doing BHT or beard. They don't even offer FUE. And I can't see Rahal offering it either. I don't think it looks very good at all. Personally I'd rather just shave my head....

 

Cloning hair will be a reality some day, imo. Unfortunately I have a feeling it will be very pricey when it first hits the market.

Edited August 13, 2011 by hairthere

[HARIRI]

I agree to that also. Body hair transplant never look good. I was just referring to it as a potential to cover the scar. The scar only not the whole head.

 

In the other hand FUE is a great thing and it will look as great as strip cause the bottom line its the scalp hair. I think soon strip surgeries will be a part of the past, once FUE develops more and it will forgotten one day when cloning will be available. FUE can yield as good as STRIP if the surgeon is talented individually. Cause with strip the surgeon doesn't do that much really as FUE, its more a technician thing.

 

With the hair transplant market demand these days, I think all clinics whom don't offer FUE will offer it the next one or two years. Even when I went to Dr. Rahal i noticed how popular FUE become. I met in the clinic, three cases, one was 2700 grafts, other was 2200 grafts and 2000 grafts. While most of the strip surgery guys were really balding such as NW5 and above or repair patients like me with a scar already.

 

MGZ, Try medications like Rogaine, it really helped me a lot restoring most of my hair although I'm NW3. Also Saw palmetto supplements which act similar to Propecia but without sexual depressing side effects. Wait till you reach NW3 level then do a transplant starting with hairline and end it with the crown in the future. Try to use concealers like Toppik or nanogen as they will make you forget about the hair transplant option this time. I strongly advice to do it after the age of 26 but never before.

[NeedAdjusting]

We're very lucky to have input and advice from members on this forum but I think newcomers need a recommeded step by step plan to get us out of our misery.

 

Coming back to the thread topic, I'm sure that both clinics will "Serve aces" with their work (Yes, the pun).

 

Both Joe and Matt are amazing guys to work with and you're surely in the best hands.

[MGZ]

Well now I'm a little discouraged since I now too see my NW6 approaching, but then I see things like these

 

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/161303-dr-rahal-patient-6228-grafts-fut.html

 

 

http://alvi-armani-fue-hair.blogspot.com/

 

 

 

Rogaine Foam is not working for me by the way, twice daily, and even if it did, rogaine is an illusion with minimal results.

Edited August 18, 2011 by MGZ

[MGZ]

I'm also impressed with these, but again, are these men choosing less density in the crown area?

Wow at the last video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2011 by MGZ

[MGZ]

mgz, density is achievable but it will never be as dense as it once was (we simply don't have enough donor grafts). You don't start to realize you are balding until a certain percentage of native hair is gone (I think I recall hearing 50%). So, you can achieve density but it will only be an illusion of density. Any native hair you have helps with this. Now, say you have a HT and it looks dense, but then you lose more native hair--it will obviously look less dense. As Aaron pointed out, hairloss is progressive.

 

In the end it's a personal choice to stay on the meds or not. No doctor will force you to stay on them. I stopped taking them after my second HT as I would rather have just lost the native hair (as it was going to fall out anyway) and just get another HT.

 

And the HT grafts are permanent. They are ideally taken from a DHT-resistant zone. They do fall out immediately post-op and then start to re-grow.

 

 

 

That makes sense, but this guys crown is gone. He had 2 procedures, after his first it seemed his crown was filled nicely, then when he went back in for the second it looked much much worse. He also stated stopping finisteride, but why should that matter if they are permanent?

 

View topic - Dr. Rahal, 2597 grafts in the crown. My 2nd HT - May 09 2011 - HairlossTalk Support Forums

[MGZ]

mgz, density is achievable but it will never be as dense as it once was (we simply don't have enough donor grafts). You don't start to realize you are balding until a certain percentage of native hair is gone (I think I recall hearing 50%). So, you can achieve density but it will only be an illusion of density. Any native hair you have helps with this. Now, say you have a HT and it looks dense, but then you lose more native hair--it will obviously look less dense. As Aaron pointed out, hairloss is progressive.

 

In the end it's a personal choice to stay on the meds or not. No doctor will force you to stay on them. I stopped taking them after my second HT as I would rather have just lost the native hair (as it was going to fall out anyway) and just get another HT.

 

And the HT grafts are permanent. They are ideally taken from a DHT-resistant zone. They do fall out immediately post-op and then start to re-grow.

 

 

 

That makes sense, but this guys crown got worse. He had 2 procedures, after his first it seemed his crown was filled nicely, then when he went back in for the second it looked much much worse. He also stated stopping finisteride, but why should that matter if they are permanent?

 

View topic - Dr. Rahal, 2597 grafts in the crown. My 2nd HT - May 09 2011 - HairlossTalk Support Forums

 

 

Even after his his stronger pics the crows still had some baldness, it seems like it's a crap shoot based off your biology with these procedures, and obviously a good doc.

Scary

[jessie1]

MGZ,

 

What a ton of advice you have had! Great to see.

 

Have you had chance to absorb it all? What are your thoughts?

 

I have seen your posts above and I agree, there are definitely some 'wow' results out there...

 

I have touched on this in previous threads, and have some personal experience here, a photo can make a good HT look bad and a bad HT look good. I gather, from your posts above that you have realised this. Sorry if I sound like a stuck record but its important to understand this concept.

 

A 'tell tale' sign of this is when you see dramatic life changing results from a patient after their first HT (or 2nd, 3rd or whatever) and then they decide to go in for another one. Sometimes, the before pics for their next procedure are less than flattering and in some instances can look almost worlds apart. There are many explanations behind this of course, including further loss, clever hair styling and use of products for the 'after shots', and I'm not saying there is some huge conspiracy, its just the way it is in any field of cosmetic surgery.

 

This is why meeting patients and examining the results for yourself should form part of your research.

 

So what are your thoughts? Confused?

 

Hey, 3 HTs on and I'm still confused mate!...... and very scepticle. This is not a bad quality though, scepticism could avoid a bad judgement call. I wish I could have replaced my impatience with some scepticism, believe me.

 

Going right back to the Crux of your thread. Hasson or Rahal. I have already given you my thoughts, Rahal just about tips it, however I see both as ethical Docs based on patient experiences. If you are not a candidate, they will tell you straight.

 

MGZ, woud be great to hear your thoughts...

 

Jessie

[mattj]

That makes sense, but this guys crown got worse. He had 2 procedures, after his first it seemed his crown was filled nicely, then when he went back in for the second it looked much much worse. He also stated stopping finisteride, but why should that matter if they are permanent?

 

View topic - Dr. Rahal, 2597 grafts in the crown. My 2nd HT - May 09 2011 - HairlossTalk Support Forums

 

 

Even after his his stronger pics the crows still had some baldness, it seems like it's a crap shoot based off your biology with these procedures, and obviously a good doc.

Scary

 

Hi MGZ, I think you are judging El Nino's hair at an inappropriate time. His photos there show him before and then just 8 weeks after surgery. It is possible he has some temporary shockloss or that some weaker native hairs have been lost. Quitting Finasteride would increase the chances of the latter occuring.

 

But having said that, I think his crown looks to be of roughly the same density before and after, (allowing for different length of hair) as would be expected considering the time frame. In the months ahead his crown will end up thicker as a result of the second procedure.

 

I apologise for taking the tread off track in this way with a defensive post, but it's good for you to be aware that sometimes after surgery there is a period when a patient might look a bit worse than they did before.

 

FYI El Nino's result is posted to this forum too: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/160880-dr-rahal-2597-grafts-crown-my-2nd-hair-transplant-may-09-2011-a.html

Edited August 18, 2011 by mattj

[MGZ]

It's a lot to take in, all this black hole talk.

Some say that not sticking with meds will make the transplanted hairs fall out possibly, and others say the opposite and only native hair will fall. I'm still confused.

I'm scared to start meds for my sex drive is mighty powerful right now, I would not want to risk what I have going, despite statistics and who cares what the FDA has to day.

 

Another huge part of me wants to wait until I'm near NW6 to avoid any patches, possibly when I'm 30, and hopefully by then HT will be more advanced and cloning will be at a reasonable price (at least under $20 000).

But I'm not sure if that's a realistic time frame, though HT's have advanced rather quickly in the last 5 years and prices have dropped.

[Hairgoesnothing]

MGZ,

I sympathize with your dilemma. I personally debated for many years the same questions that you are debating here now. In the end though, I came to my own answers and decisions that I believed were right for me. But I did not rush any of them. I began investigating what could be done about my hair loss over nine years ago. But did not adopt a pro active approach until three year ago once I was absolutely, positively and unmistakably sure that the decisions that I took were the right ones for me. From what I have read from your comments so far, you seem to be taking all the proper steps necessary in finding solutions to your dilemmas. But the most important step you are taking is not rushing into anything. That is extremely wise on your part. Do not be in a hurry is my personal advice to you. Take all the time that you need and judge necessary to read, research, investigate and talk to as many people as you can about every aspect of the subject. You are still vey young and your thoughts might not be the same tomorrow as they are today. Time is without a doubt on your side. Do take advantage of it; as the old proverb dictates: Good things come to those who wait.

All the best my friend