And then this happened - part 2 with new photos (HTs 12 years later)

[Surfarosa]

After engaging with multiple clinics, I have now come in contact with Dr Ball from the Maitland clinic who seem excellent and in line with the best US clinics. I also found a case on here identical to mine, from the US who had it corrected by Dr. Ball in the UK - thanks @Berba111.

The pics I have included are almost my full collection intended to show:

• Where I started in 2003.
• What I have tried to do here is seperate the transplanted hair from the native hair.  Not very flattering but it shows where I'm at.
• I have also included a back view - the crown does not bother me at all - I'm 47 FFS.
• I also included one in flattering lights and styled normally just for my own dignity
• Close up of recipient site left temple.
• My finished result in 2010 - front, left and right
• Single donor scar after 3 surgeries (sugeon went over the same scar (I also had PRP after surgery for better healing)
• A post surgery picture (surgery number 2)
• Crown 2010
• Crown 2022

Guys, these are not repair jobs. This is what happens 12 years after a HT. My other conclusions since this rounds are as follows:

1. Obvioulsy stay on your meds
2. You may still lose transplanted hair as part of the continuous process of hairloss
3. 1 proceedure will unlikley be enough unless you are NW3 and not progressing
4. Think LONG term

My big concern now is that I - and others much smarter than me - believe that there is no real evidence that HTs last beyond 5-10 years. There is growing evidence that it's not just where the hair was taken from, but where it was placed. For example if you took a hair from a donor area and placed in the side of your head where hair was plentiful and growing, it would last forever.

However, if you put the same hair on the end of your nose, it would likely be gone in a few years. This does not bode well for HTs into either bald scalp or scalp that will lose the surrounding native hair.

This may well be the very hidden, very dirty secret of the HT industry. If anyone is interested mafpe sent me a very well done video on the subject. Happy to post it.

The problem is that the source of patient info is the HT clinics. They rarely have patient photos updated from 5 years, 10 years etc. People move on and could be happy could be one explanation though. But if the truth was HTs last 5-10 years at most - the industry would die unless new strategies came to light that changed the game. And in this industry, that almost never happens.

I hope people find this rare look at HTs over an extensive period of value. I am posting these to give back to this community.

For those not familiar with my history:

• I had 3 proceedures with over 3000 grafts.
• First in 2003 - 500 grafts all singles FUT (250 in each temple)
• Second in 2006 - 1200 grafts all singles FUT (build up the sides, photo included)
• 3rd in 2008 - 1600 grafts all singles FUT (all hairline)
• I was on Propecia from 1999 for 10 years and then Avodart from 2009 but stopped in 2012 (stupid I know but I was done with it all and honestly forgot about it for a decade).
• I am back on Minox and Propecia now (2 weeks) and looking to fix my double hairline
   

I am also considering having my HTs removed completely as my goal now is to look natural not to look like I have a full head of hair.

Any

Today - direct sunlight

 

The dream result in 2010 after decades on meds and 3 HTS - taken with a flash for maximum effect

Today direct sunlight

Today - left-  revealing transplanted hair from the native hair

Today - right -  revealing transplanted hair from the native hair

Today - front -  revealing transplanted hair from the native hair

Yesterday from the back

Last week normally syled

Yesterday in bright morning sunlight through the skylight

Recent close up of left recipient area

2010 Finished result in bright sunlight - Front

20210 Finished result in bright sunlight - right side

20210 Finished result in bright sunlight - left side

2010 crown - but very tanned (36 years old)

2022 crown - no tan (47 years old)

2003 Pre any HT surgery visiting the surgeon for the first time

2nd surgery in 2006 - 1200 grafts. The focus was to build up the sides.

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by Surfarosa

[TommyLucchese]

I had a HT in July 2012 and look the same as I did in July 2014

[Gatsby]

Thanks for sharing and what I really hope your post does it to tell the truth to every young guy racing off to Turkey. If you survive the procedure and get lucky the answer isn't in saving money and the results. It's the problem with MPB. It's PROGRESSIVE and you need a medical and surgical plan not for the next five years but for the rest of your life. Thanks for sharing!

[NARMAK]

Hair loss medication isn't perfect and people forget that it's bot designed to stop hair loss. Merely delay it for as long as possible. Only a very lucky few will truly ever be able to block enough DHT to stop it in its tracks and are probably like the 1%. The next 9% are probably slowing it down to a crawl where its barely noticed and then the next 10% after that are probably able to stave it off for a decade or so before it becomes more noticed but still slower. 

Most people are in the middle and probably will benefit from it over a long term but again the earlier you start, the more hair you can keep for longer and thus, a hair transplants will also "last longer" even if the hair loss is progressive imo. 

I think within the next decade, hopefully we'll have new treatments and they might help make a difference to helping stave off hair loss more effectively than the accidental treatments we stumbled on and been using. 

[Mike10]

Hair loss is progressive.In most cases medication will onyl slow down hair loss but not stop it. Nearly no patient will only have 1 procedure.

As for Finansteride, every case is different and not every patient needs it. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Donor is is not DHT proof, its DHT resistant. 

[Aftermath]

Had my main surgery in 2008, crown later on and modified the hairline to make it straighter more recently, but everything from then is still there almost 15 years later. So to say there’s no proof it lasts… there are numerous cases on here where it’s lasted 

[ciaus]

 

4 hours ago, Surfarosa said:

• I was on Propecia from 1999 for 10 years and then Avodart from 2009 but stopped in 2012 (stupid I know but I was done with it all and honestly forgot about it for a decade).
• I am back on Minox and Propecia now (2 weeks) and looking to fix my double hairline

You didn't need a long post with speculation about hair transplants being temporary. This part I'm quoting above is all you had to say ^^.

We get guys on here wanting to just do hair transplants without any medication. And alot of the time they haven't even tried finasteride, too afraid because they've bought into the fear mongering online instead of working with their doctors.

To all those guys, here's one of those personal stories you don't really want to hear, but you need to hear. Yes its possible to do hair transplants without the meds, like our forum moderator @Melvin- Moderator who is doing great so far, but you're reducing the odds of having good outcomes. Because the brutal truth is that there are no guarantees, even when you're taking the meds.

It all comes down to how sensitive ALL your hair follicles are to hair loss factors, and assuming your doctor only took hairs from your donor area, even those donor area hairs can eventually become casualties to hairloss. Though usually the donor hair doesn't noticeably start thinning out until well into the elderly years, some guys are just genetically very unlucky and it starts sooner.  Which is all the more reason to STAY ON THE MEDS to also protect your donor hairs, wherever they end up on your head!

 

[Surfarosa]

13 hours ago, ciaus said:

 

You didn't need a long post with speculation about hair transplants being temporary. This part I'm quoting above is all you had to say ^^.

We get guys on here wanting to just do hair transplants without any medication. And alot of the time they haven't even tried finasteride, too afraid because they've bought into the fear mongering online instead of working with their doctors.

To all those guys, here's one of those personal stories you don't really want to hear, but you need to hear. Yes its possible to do hair transplants without the meds, like our forum moderator @Melvin- Moderator who is doing great so far, but you're reducing the odds of having good outcomes. Because the brutal truth is that there are no guarantees, even when you're taking the meds.

It all comes down to how sensitive ALL your hair follicles are to hair loss factors, and assuming your doctor only took hairs from your donor area, even those donor area hairs can eventually become casualties to hairloss. Though usually the donor hair doesn't noticeably start thinning out until well into the elderly years, some guys are just genetically very unlucky and it starts sooner.  Which is all the more reason to STAY ON THE MEDS to also protect your donor hairs, wherever they end up on your head!

 

Why not speculate? Speculation is healthy especially in a forum environment? I am confused. I have not been conclusive because I do not know the answer, however I just posted the video that got me thinking for transparency. If you think I am trying to start a movement against HT - think again. I am looking to get another one, just with my eyes wide open.

Further - I provided photos of myself to show what I was talking about.

@Melvin- Moderator please advise if I am out of line here.

If you think questioning the long term reality of proceedures is a bad thing then I guess we just think differently. And that is ok - but I can post what I feel as long as it's within the community guidelines.

[Euphoria]

They are as permanent as the donor area they're taken from. 

[Surfarosa]

20 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

They are as permanent as the donor area they're taken from. 

That's what I had always believed. It's hard to see that the back of your head (donor area) is also slowly thinning but in my case I think it is and if I look at my father, his certianly has.

[Chicago2CA]

Excellent post, @Surfarosa.  It confirms what I've suspected (but is a poorly kept secret) is true, that many HT's pleasing outcomes are TEMPORARY.  Including myself, I know three other men that received at least 2-3 HTs and had full coverage.  But it didn't last more than 5 - 8 years.  I hope that treatments improve (transplants, topical, oral) so the next time I get a transplant, I'll have confidence that it will yield a much longer benefit.  

[Hair, my old friend]

On 5/1/2022 at 3:41 AM, Surfarosa said:

Why not speculate? Speculation is healthy especially in a forum environment? I am confused. I have not been conclusive because I do not know the answer, however I just posted the video that got me thinking for transparency. If you think I am trying to start a movement against HT - think again. I am looking to get another one, just with my eyes wide open.

Further - I provided photos of myself to show what I was talking about.

@Melvin- Moderator please advise if I am out of line here.

If you think questioning the long term reality of proceedures is a bad thing then I guess we just think differently. And that is ok - but I can post what I feel as long as it's within the community guidelines.

Thanks @Surfarosa I watched this convincing video on the subject of whether transplants last, since I’m a NW6 at 38 and have been actively considering a procedure. The video didn’t say it wasn’t worth getting the work done, as many people retain a lot of hair, rather that the site does impact the follicles and that thinning is absolutely likely to occur. My situation is complicated by the fact that I have a narrow donor area and so future hts may not be an option. 
 

I just made a post in the questions forum asking people to post results several years later, and then started searching around which is how I found you. So thanks for posting your story. I don’t actually think it’s speculation at this point - it does appear that hts thin due to the sites impact on follicles. 
 

have you learned any more since this post? Have you looked into or considered micro-needling with topical minoxidil? I’ve hear that this combo has incredible results. 
 

currwntly weighing options - nervous but not scared away. 
 

anyway, appreciate your post man. Take care. 

[MattJosh]

On 5/1/2022 at 3:40 AM, Surfarosa said:

That's what I had always believed. It's hard to see that the back of your head (donor area) is also slowly thinning but in my case I think it is and if I look at my father, his certianly has.

Let me ask you something

As the years went by and you lost the transplanted hairs, how was the process of losing them?

a) Did the hairs suddenly fall and never grew back

b) Did the hairs suddenly fall/grow/fall/grow/fall while getting thinner and miniaturized over many hair cycles over years until they stopped growing

c)or did it happen in any other way?

[Kraki77]

There are two major takeaways from this story. Obviously, technique wasn't as advanced as it is today and three separate operations were needed to implant a little over 3000 grafts. When you only hear about some guy that had three operations and you compare that with pictures you would be pretty disappointed about your future outcome. But, reality of the situation is that today you can get more than 3000 grafts in one session and more than double in two. Second thing that has to be pointed out is the fact that DHT blocker wasn't taken for whole decade and this only serves as a cautionary tale for guys that are willing to do HT without meds. I firmly believe that with absolute best doctors today you can have decent and life-changing results for as long as you care in two bigger sessions. Of course, it's necessary to take meds during all that time.

There's no way that I'd accept operation from de Freitas next year without dutasteride and oral minoxidil even though he insisted on just finasteride. You better be ready to do everything in your power to protect yourself from the future possibilities or you'll end up being remorseful somewhere down the line.

 

 

[GoliGoliGoli]

3 minutes ago, Kraki77 said:

There's no way that I'd accept operation from de Freitas next year without dutasteride and oral minoxidil even though he insisted on just finasteride. You better be ready to do everything in your power to protect yourself from the future possibilities or you'll end up being remorseful somewhere down the line.

 

 

You may be right in regards to hair, but you very well may end up VERY regretful from taking medications that effect your endocrine and cardiovascular system too! 

[Yan bio]

2 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

You may be right in regards to hair, but you very well may end up VERY regretful from taking medications that effect your endocrine and cardiovascular system too! 

They’re both considered very safe. And minoxidil doesn’t cause heart problems, unless you have studies to support this claim

[Hairy Henderson]

On 4/30/2022 at 10:29 AM, Aftermath said:

Had my main surgery in 2008, crown later on and modified the hairline to make it straighter more recently, but everything from then is still there almost 15 years later. So to say there’s no proof it lasts… there are numerous cases on here where it’s lasted 

Had mine in 2005, still have it all.......

[SeanT1]

Quote

• I was on Propecia from 1999 for 10 years and then Avodart from 2009 but stopped in 2012 (stupid I know but I was done with it all and honestly forgot about it for a decade).

With respect, I believe this is the cause of your final outcome.
DHT can still affect transplanted follicles.  Not being on finasteride for over 10 years will have consequences.

Hairloss isn't always due to DHT either, some people have had transplants due to head trauma or stress induced hairloss.
I assume this is why we sometimes hear success stories of HT patients that have kept hair without DHT blocking medications.

Edited August 27, 2022 by SeanToman

[Surfarosa]

So I finally have had my procedure with Dr. Ball and the Maitland Clinic.

First result worth showing is the impact getting back on meds had after 10 years off them.

 

[Surfarosa]

[Surfarosa]

[Surfarosa]

The scars are from my old FUT surgeries.

[Surfarosa]

1 minute ago, Surfarosa said:

Day after surgery.

[Surfarosa]

I had 1,339 grafts.
363 singles

483 doubles

493 3/4 hair grafts

I even had a 5 hair graft!

My donor density at the back was 98 which is very high.