After 2 years with Propecia without any benefit thinking to switch to Dutasteride.

[Ron5566]

Hi guys,

 

I am one of those guys who started to lose their hair when they were 15-16.

All my family are Norwood 7 and as most of you know, people with aggressive hairloss as mine usually are not getting any benefit from Propecia (It didn't slow my hairloss at all, I am almost Norwood 7 at 24).

 

The reason I want to take Dutasteride is to save my donor which is also effected by DHT. I have spoken with few recommended doctors here and they all advices me to try since I haven't got any side effects from Fin.

 

Do you think I have any hope with Dutasteride? Anyone actually switched from Fin to Dutasteride and saw any benefit? I really want to save my donor so I can have HT in the future, since my donor is sensitive to DHT under microscope examination docs said Dutasteride is the only choice to stop it since it blocks over 90%.

 

On the other hand I read tons of posts that people claimed it did nothing to their hairloss and then I am asking my self, if it blocks over 90% DHT and the reason we lose hair is because our body transfer Testerone to DHT and Dutasteride is basically blocking Everything then how it makes sense?

 

Hope someone call clarify this for me and also share his benefits with Dutasteride over Propecia.

 

Thanks a lot!

[Motorleza]

Can you include pictures 

[Ron5566]

Unfortunately pictures won't help because I am wearing hair system and cutting my hair in a way that the sides and back looks thick (I am losing 200 hairs from my sides and back daily).

 

All my family, over 20 males are Norwood 7 with thin sides, I must find a way to keep my sides and since Propecia didn't help I don't know what will, I am willing to take anything just to save my donor so I can continue wearing my hair system. 

[giegnosiganoe]

Finasteride is probably benefiting you. Maybe not as much as the average person, but you would surely be worse off without it.

Give dutasteride a shot. I don't think there's any doubt that it works slightly better than finasteride.

I was using finasteride for 6 months, but then started taking dutasteride for the past year to be safe as I'm a diffuse thinner with a weaker than average donor. I seem to have maintained on both, but I'll have to see how things progress in the long term. All I know is that I'm doing the best that I can.

[Hairgain22]

Anyone know how to get dut in the UK?

[Ron5566]

1 hour ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Finasteride is probably benefiting you. Maybe not as much as the average person, but you would surely be worse off without it.

Give dutasteride a shot. I don't think there's any doubt that it works slightly better than finasteride.

I was using finasteride for 6 months, but then started taking dutasteride for the past year to be safe as I'm a diffuse thinner with a weaker than average donor. I seem to have maintained on both, but I'll have to see how things progress in the long term. All I know is that I'm doing the best that I can.

Thanks a lot for your response! It gives me tons of hope.

You wrote : "Finasteride is probably benefiting you. Maybe not as much as the average person,"

I truly believe it didn't do anything, I was losing at least 200-300 hairs daily, under microscope examination I had tons of miniaturized hairs, two and half years after Propecia it was the same.

I think when you lose your hair when you are 15-16 it's so aggressive that even Propecia doesn't do anything.

 

Now I am already slicked bald at the top, but want to maintance my sides/nape/donor so I can continue wearing my hair piece. I am losing about 150 hairs daily on my donor and again, after microscope examination I was diagnosed with DUPA.

 

Do you think there is a chance that Avodart would help? Even if it won't stop completely at least slow down/keep 50% of my donor? 

Or there is a chance it won't do anything (Which I can't understand why since it's supposed to block 90%).

Thanks!

[PizzaWolf]

3 hours ago, Ron5566 said:

Do you think there is a chance that Avodart would help? Even if it won't stop completely at least slow down/keep 50% of my donor? 

Or there is a chance it won't do anything (Which I can't understand why since it's supposed to block 90%).

Thanks!

Avodart/Dutasteride may block 90% of serum DHT in the bloodstream, but it does not block that much where you really need it to--the scalp. You can look into clinical research of Dutasteride that showed at doses of 2.5mg per day it blocks almost 100% of serum DHT levels, but likely much less in scalp tissue directly.

You might want to look into the experimental topical compounds like ru58841 and cb-03-01.

[Melvin- Admin]

Blocking that much DHT can’t be good, we have that hormone for a reason. 

[giegnosiganoe]

14 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

Avodart/Dutasteride may block 90% of serum DHT in the bloodstream, but it does not block that much where you really need it to--the scalp. You can look into clinical research of Dutasteride that showed at doses of 2.5mg per day it blocks almost 100% of serum DHT levels, but likely much less in scalp tissue directly.

You might want to look into the experimental topical compounds like ru58841 and cb-03-01.

Yeah I just looked it up and saw ~38% for 1mg finasteride, ~41% for 5mg, finasteride, and ~51%-53% for 0.5mg dutasteride. Couldn't find any numbers for clascoterone. Don't trust RU. 

[giegnosiganoe]

4 hours ago, Ron5566 said:

Thanks a lot for your response! It gives me tons of hope.

You wrote : "Finasteride is probably benefiting you. Maybe not as much as the average person,"

I truly believe it didn't do anything, I was losing at least 200-300 hairs daily, under microscope examination I had tons of miniaturized hairs, two and half years after Propecia it was the same.

I think when you lose your hair when you are 15-16 it's so aggressive that even Propecia doesn't do anything.

 

Now I am already slicked bald at the top, but want to maintance my sides/nape/donor so I can continue wearing my hair piece. I am losing about 150 hairs daily on my donor and again, after microscope examination I was diagnosed with DUPA.

 

Do you think there is a chance that Avodart would help? Even if it won't stop completely at least slow down/keep 50% of my donor? 

Or there is a chance it won't do anything (Which I can't understand why since it's supposed to block 90%).

Thanks!

It definitely did something, you just don't have anything to compare it to. Dutasteride will lower your scalp DHT by a bit more so it's worth a shot if you really care about your hair.

[Ron5566]

By "serum DHT" do you mean the oilness in my scalp?

like, if I touch my scalp before shower it's extremely oily, I swear it's like three tablespoon of oil.

Is that the serum people are speaking about?

 

[PizzaWolf]

1 hour ago, Ron5566 said:

By "serum DHT" do you mean the oilness in my scalp?

like, if I touch my scalp before shower it's extremely oily, I swear it's like three tablespoon of oil.

Is that the serum people are speaking about?

It's the testable level in your bloodstream, which isn't the same as other tissues in your body; i.e. scalp, prostate, or muscle tissue.

For us guys suffering from hairloss we're looking for a reduction in scalp DHT.

The potential issue with nuking your serum DHT levels is that you would be opening yourself up to more systemic, body-wide issues while not necessarily reducing your hairloss significantly.

1 hour ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Yeah I just looked it up and saw ~38% for 1mg finasteride, ~41% for 5mg, finasteride, and ~51%-53% for 0.5mg dutasteride. Couldn't find any numbers for clascoterone. Don't trust RU. 

RU might be safer than Fin/Dut because the (admittedly limited) research on it has shown that it has very poor systemic absorption. I definitely understand not trusting the idea of smearing a research chemical on your head, though.

[giegnosiganoe]

2 hours ago, PizzaWolf said:

It's the testable level in your bloodstream, which isn't the same as other tissues in your body; i.e. scalp, prostate, or muscle tissue.

For us guys suffering from hairloss we're looking for a reduction in scalp DHT.

The potential issue with nuking your serum DHT levels is that you would be opening yourself up to more systemic, body-wide issues while not necessarily reducing your hairloss significantly.

Interestingly enough though, from the research I've seen on sides, the rates are very similar between finasteride and dutasteride.

Edited November 13, 2020 by giegnosiganoe

[jjsrader]

11 hours ago, Hairgain22 said:

Anyone know how to get dut in the UK?

Yea - alldaychemist.com has Avodart (name brand) & generic (Dut) - sent to your house without a scrip'

Or use medicalwellnesscenter.com & get a scrip' sent to you from a U.S. doctor.

Edited November 13, 2020 by jjsrader

[aaron1234]

If you started losing your hair at 15-16, and you're a NW7 at 24, I wonder if you'll ever be a good candidate for a HT.  Also, if you are used to wearing a system, you'll have to accept that a HT won't ever come close to that density.  But by all means, give Dut a shot if you think Fin isn't working for you.

[DenverBuff1989]

@Ron5566 I'm only a Norwood 3, but will share my experience for what its worth. 

Took Finasteride for 2 yrs, no sides. Even with no more hairloss since taking Fin, I decided I wanted the best preventive measure possible, so switched to Dutasteride. Have been taking it for a year and a half, also with no sides. 

I haven't had any additional hairloss since starting Fin 3 yrs ago. Hard to say if it is due to Fin/Dut, as my hairloss wasnt THAT bad to begin with, but I will continue taking Dut to the day I die because I have no sides. 

Guys are often worried that Fin/Dut will kill boners. I'm not saying this isn't a real occurrence, but the way I see it, all guys' sex drive slowly but surely starts to lower once they hit their late 20s. Guys just see the correlation of starting Fin/DUT in their late 20s/30s, and see they aren't as horny as they were when they were 21, and erroneously blame the Fin/Dut. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by DenverBuff1989

[tressful11]

Hello @Ron5566,
Just wanted to pitch in and let you know that I am one of those unlucky people for whom Finasteride didn't work. Others may find it difficult to believe because people like us are so rare, but we do exist. There are more like us on reddit (I have seen plenty of examples). Everyone's physiology is different and we all respond to medicines differently. Just like any other medicine, some people will do just fine, some people won't respond at all and some people will have dangerous side effects. If you want to see how lucky some people can get with finasteride you should check out @Shifty's thread. One of the best fin results I have soon.

Btw, I lost hair even on finasteride. Eventually I switched to dutasteride. While I didn't regrow any hair, dutasteride seems to have massively slowed down the hairloss that even finasteride couldn't handle. Dutasteride is actually quite prevalent in countries like Japan. If you can afford to import Topical Dutasteride, you try the oral fin and topical dutasteride combo. I think Dr. Lupanzola sells topical Dut. Take it wisely and Good luck!

EDIT - Also wanted to add that I have no side effects on Dutasteride. Everything is fine down there 😜

Edited November 13, 2020 by tressful11

[Ron5566]

9 hours ago, aaron1234 said:

If you started losing your hair at 15-16, and you're a NW7 at 24, I wonder if you'll ever be a good candidate for a HT.  Also, if you are used to wearing a system, you'll have to accept that a HT won't ever come close to that density.  But by all means, give Dut a shot if you think Fin isn't working for you.

Hey Aaron,

 

Of course not, my only goal is to keep my sides and do a little transplant (about 700 grafts) in the hair temple points.

I will NEVER be able to get 20% of the Destiny that I want with HT and I am aware but because my donor/sides are effected I am trying to find a solution for my genes. With hair piece I live my self perfectly fine, no one knows I am wearing (Transferred from Toppik to hair piece) and I do it my self so maintenance is cheap and easy.

People are looking to keep their hairlines/crown etc, I just want my sides 🤣😭

[Ron5566]

9 hours ago, DenverBuff1989 said:

@Ron5566 I'm only a Norwood 3, but will share my experience for what its worth. 

Took Finasteride for 2 yrs, no sides. Even with no more hairloss since taking Fin, I decided I wanted the best preventive measure possible, so switched to Dutasteride. Have been taking it for a year and a half, also with no sides. 

I haven't had any additional hairloss since starting Fin 3 yrs ago. Hard to say if it is due to Fin/Dut, as my hairloss wasnt THAT bad to begin with, but I will continue taking Dut to the day I die because I have no sides. 

Guys are often worried that Fin/Dut will kill boners. I'm not saying this isn't a real occurrence, but the way I see it, all guys' sex drive slowly but surely starts to lower once they hit their late 20s. Guys just see the correlation of starting Fin/DUT in their late 20s/30s, and see they aren't as horny as they were when they were 21, and erroneously blame the Fin/Dut. 

I am really happy to hear it worked for you! Since your hairloss wasn't so bad to begin with I believe it has a lot to do with that. I started to lose my hair when I was around 15.5, all my family members are norwoood 6/7. My blood is full of dam DHT 😅

 

You wrote : "guys' sex drive slowly but surely starts to lower once they hit their late 20s"

 

I don't know if it makes sense but is there a chance that in let's say 8 years (I am 27 now) the hair I am losing in my sides/back will be stable and maybe stop because my body will produce less testosterone?

[Ron5566]

9 hours ago, tressful11 said:

Hello @Ron5566,
Just wanted to pitch in and let you know that I am one of those unlucky people for whom Finasteride didn't work. Others may find it difficult to believe because people like us are so rare, but we do exist. There are more like us on reddit (I have seen plenty of examples). Everyone's physiology is different and we all respond to medicines differently. Just like any other medicine, some people will do just fine, some people won't respond at all and some people will have dangerous side effects. If you want to see how lucky some people can get with finasteride you should check out @Shifty's thread. One of the best fin results I have soon.

Btw, I lost hair even on finasteride. Eventually I switched to dutasteride. While I didn't regrow any hair, dutasteride seems to have massively slowed down the hairloss that even finasteride couldn't handle. Dutasteride is actually quite prevalent in countries like Japan. If you can afford to import Topical Dutasteride, you try the oral fin and topical dutasteride combo. I think Dr. Lupanzola sells topical Dut. Take it wisely and Good luck!

EDIT - Also wanted to add that I have no side effects on Dutasteride. Everything is fine down there 😜

Hey man! Happy it worked out for you!! May I ask when you started to lose your hair? Was it aggressive as me?

Again, what I am trying to save is my sides/donor. I am already bald on the top and wearing hair system but because my DHT is so aggressive it goes all the way to my donor. Some calls it DUPA because there's over 20% miniaturized hairs but I think it's just aggressive Retrograde Alopecia since first I started to lose hair at the top and around 21 started to lose hair at the nape, side burn which in the last few years went all over the scalp.

 

My only fear is that I will wake up bald in my entire head and won't be able to wear the hair piece. Although I don't think it's possible to be 100% bald in the entire head I am little stressed about it and that's why I am thinking to start DUT.

Thanks again for the reply 🙏🙏

[TorontoMan]

3 hours ago, Ron5566 said:

I am really happy to hear it worked for you! Since your hairloss wasn't so bad to begin with I believe it has a lot to do with that. I started to lose my hair when I was around 15.5, all my family members are norwoood 6/7. My blood is full of dam DHT 😅

 

You wrote : "guys' sex drive slowly but surely starts to lower once they hit their late 20s"

 

I don't know if it makes sense but is there a chance that in let's say 8 years (I am 27 now) the hair I am losing in my sides/back will be stable and maybe stop because my body will produce less testosterone?

Hi I think you need to take more time research and understand what finasteride/dutasteride and all these things are and what they're doing. It is not that you have more DHT in your body than any other average person, it is that you are genetically sensitive to dht at your hair follicles that you are losing your hair as opposed to another person who isn't. 

& yes theoretically if you get older and you're testosterone levels begin to drop, conversely the amount conversion into DHT will also drop. However, that is not what you want lol. You want to keep your testosterone levels high, and ideally if you didnt have MPB you wouldn't be touching your DHT levels either. The drop of 50-70% of dht from fin, depending on how you dose, is thought to be enough of a drop where you get dht reduction in the scalp, but still enough androgen activity in most men to support regular function. 

[Ron5566]

Oh I get this now! So basically, it's not the amount of DHT but the fact that my hairs are very sensitive to DHT.

So if currently I am also shedding in my donor (Everywhere in the Scalp).

Does it means I am going to lose ANY hair on my head or some hairs, let's say 50% may remain in the scalp.

What age I can determine where I am heading? Looking at my dad's donor, you can see it's thinner, nape is gone but he still have lots of remaining hairs on his scalp which are enough to blend with hair piece in case he wanted to.

Basically my only concern is to have zero hairs on my head since I am shedding all over my scalp right now, it will ever be stable at some age or slow down? Or it's not possible to tell?

[TorontoMan]

7 minutes ago, Ron5566 said:

Oh I get this now! So basically, it's not the amount of DHT but the fact that my hairs are very sensitive to DHT.

So if currently I am also shedding in my donor (Everywhere in the Scalp).

Does it means I am going to lose ANY hair on my head or some hairs, let's say 50% may remain in the scalp.

What age I can determine where I am heading? Looking at my dad's donor, you can see it's thinner, nape is gone but he still have lots of remaining hairs on his scalp which are enough to blend with hair piece in case he wanted to.

Basically my only concern is to have zero hairs on my head since I am shedding all over my scalp right now, it will ever be stable at some age or slow down? Or it's not possible to tell?

Yeah you may be very sensitive DHT in your scalp and likely other androgens including testosterone. Finasteride will of course help reduce the amount of DHT you have in your body meaning there will be less of it to come around and attach to your hair. For most people this reduction is enough to slow the progression of hair loss down and others still experience loss because there is still enough androgen activity in their scalp for their hair follicles to be affected. In your case I would try finasteride if you haven't already and it should help you maintain what you have, including your donor. Hair loss is progressive and there is unfortunately no real way of determining how far you will go with it.

I would also strongly suggest you go get blood work done. Ask them to test your blood for iron, folate, zinc and look into your thyroid or any potentially autoimmune issues. 

[DenverBuff1989]

4 hours ago, Ron5566 said:

I don't know if it makes sense but is there a chance that in let's say 8 years (I am 27 now) the hair I am losing in my sides/back will be stable and maybe stop because my body will produce less testosterone?

@Ron5566  I'm not sure of the testosterone/science part of it, but there are many many guys who have hairloss when they are young and develop into NW3s and NW4s, and their hairloss stops - even without meds - and stays that way for the rest of their lives, or maybe it starts thinning, losing hair again when they are elderly. 

You have extremely aggressive hairloss, especially given your age and that it is already affecting your donor area. It seems you were not meant to have hair in this life. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but since your hairloss is already affecting your donor hair, I don't think you would be a good HT candidate. 

But your quesiton overall was about the hairpiece and keeping the donor hair just so you can wear a hairpiece. Say worst case your donor hair does go away, is it that much different getting a different hairpiece that covers the donor hair region as well?

Edited November 13, 2020 by DenverBuff1989

[Ron5566]

4 hours ago, DenverBuff1989 said:

@Ron5566  I'm not sure of the testosterone/science part of it, but there are many many guys who have hairloss when they are young and develop into NW3s and NW4s, and their hairloss stops - even without meds - and stays that way for the rest of their lives, or maybe it starts thinning, losing hair again when they are elderly. 

You have extremely aggressive hairloss, especially given your age and that it is already affecting your donor area. It seems you were not meant to have hair in this life. Take my opinion with a grain of salt, but since your hairloss is already affecting your donor hair, I don't think you would be a good HT candidate. 

But your quesiton overall was about the hairpiece and keeping the donor hair just so you can wear a hairpiece. Say worst case your donor hair does go away, is it that much different getting a different hairpiece that covers the donor hair region as well?

Unfortunately yes, sides hair (Even if it's thin I can still work this out with proper cut in) but without sides hair I am screwed and won't make it look natural. I attached some photos of my hair systems so it can give you an idea, donor is thick now but this is not the case unless I cut my hair in specifically way and take a shower every morning to ensure there is no oilness in the scalp.

What is so frustrating is that I passed any obstacle just to get "hair", against all the odds after going to salons to get the hair piece done, which never looked natural to my eyes and I am extremely perfectionist, I was able to order my self and cut in myself to ensure no one will ever suspect. I am wearing for six years and extremely happy. Now when I see my sides fading away I still have solutions, I thought to do fade cut with SMP in the nape and blend it in etc, the only thing that freaks me out is the uncertainty, how bad my sides will look in 3,5,10 years. Does family members are indication? If so, I am pretty much set but again the uncertainty is killing me 😅🥺