NW3 3200 grafts with Dr Erdogan

[Rwethereyet]

Hi Friedman

Thanks, my hair is much better than before the surgery. I just haven't got the density I'd like from it yet. We'll see what happens over the coming months. 

I just followed ASMED'S instructions for washing. I believe a lot of times when the scabs remain after 10 days it is due to the patient not scrubbing hard enough for fear of losing grafts. Have you messaged the clinic yet about the scabs? You would know if you lost any grafts as you would see blood from where the graft came out I believe 

Good luck with your heeling and growing

[JayLDD]

Personally I still think it looks quite a bit better than pre-op and you're not far off getting a top notch result with a second procedure, I would certainly be planning for it. I suspect ASMED will be happy to ultimately oblige in helping get OP to a result anyone would be happy with.

 

I know Spex and others including various surgeons suggest waiting over a year, but the reality is that these are all people with incentive to get people off a doctors back in the case of mediocre or poor results and keep patients as calm as possible for as long as possible. Spex is obviously very knowledgeable but he is at the end of the day a paid representative for various surgeons, with anyone in the same situation expect some stretching of the truth to the side of those he is paid to support. Same with surgeons who recommend waiting 18-24 months, the longer a patient is given to expect final results the longer they don't have to deal with the issue. It also helps avoid having patients flip out at the 3-4 month mark when they can't see much improvement by pretending there is a drastically longer timeline.  This is fundamentally why these numbers are quoted often.  The reality is that by 6 months 99.9% of patients should be well on track and at 12 months they've hit final results in regards to growth, 18-24 months is a meme plain and simple.

 

It's most certainly stretching the truth to suggest cosmetically noticeable growth can occur after the 12 month mark, without a doubt I've seen thousands of results and I can't say I've seen change beyond 12 months EVER in regards to growth.  Show me a single result with photographically visible improvement post 12 months to prove otherwise. There are reasons to wait beyond this for planning and perhaps healing, but objectively speaking there is little basis to expect further growth. Those who are still experiencing growth beyond the 12 month mark are either hanging out among literally three people hanging off the end of the bell curve or don't exist.

 

Despite the harsh reality I wouldn't be upset about it or anything though. Just keep in mind that it's something you have to deal with on the journey to get results at exactly the level you were probably after, but I don't doubt you'll get there.

[Payam]

How is this not considered a failure? You have to cover the low density with your existing hair and can't have it slicked back. These 15-24 month waiting times are bullshit to the benefit of the clinic.

JeanDD, why would this guy go back to asmed after this? 3200 grafts should be a slam dunk for this guy.

[Friedman]

3 hours ago, Rwethereyet said:

Hi Friedman

Thanks, my hair is much better than before the surgery. I just haven't got the density I'd like from it yet. We'll see what happens over the coming months. 

I just followed ASMED'S instructions for washing. I believe a lot of times when the scabs remain after 10 days it is due to the patient not scrubbing hard enough for fear of losing grafts. Have you messaged the clinic yet about the scabs? You would know if you lost any grafts as you would see blood from where the graft came out I believe 

Good luck with your heeling and growing

Hmm... I think I'll wait until day 14 at least to scrub harder in the shower... Or it seems like no harm to wait for the week 3 shedding, at which point the scabs, attached more to my hair than my scalp at this point, shed by themselves. 

Also, I think you should seriously consider *not* having another hair transplant operation. They are expensive, a hassle, the operation sucks, and the effects are not permanent in any case. All surgeries are invasive, and they take a toll. Your hair looks pretty good, and better than before. 

[JayLDD]

1 hour ago, Payam said:

How is this not considered a failure? You have to cover the low density with your existing hair and can't have it slicked back. These 15-24 month waiting times are bullshit to the benefit of the clinic.

JeanDD, why would this guy go back to asmed after this? 3200 grafts should be a slam dunk for this guy.

Because he's a rare poorer than average result for the graft number from this clinic. For one they'll also probably offer free replacement of grafts up to a 90% growth rate as they clarify. There are more good results from them than any other megasession FUE clinic you'll find, the reality is that not everyone gets perfect results, no matter who the doctor and no matter what the protocol.

In reality his hair quality average and the area covered was for the most part completely bare, 3200 grafts should have given a better result but that doesn't mean you should be expecting perfection. 

Honestly a lot of what you write about the clinic is just blatant lies. Not sure if you even realise it or its other personal issues going on but your comments don't seem tethered to reality in any way and ultimately come across like complaining for the sake of it. No one here who has done any research at all thinks that a slam dunk is a guarantee from ANY surgeon. People are aware of potential complications when they sign up, those who aren't just didn't do their research. No one is forcing you into having surgery and no one is saying it is risk free.

 

 

[jjsrader]

JeanLDD 'breaking it down' point by point to Payam - oh yes!  But seriously, yea - 3.2K is not like 5.5K grafts and he's lagging some but has a good base.

Erdogan should work with him and I would not be surprised to see total satisfaction from this patient down the road when he does a 2nd session. 

He's being honest, patient, showing very clear consistent pictures and communicating with his doctor (and us forum posters). 

This is the reality of hair-restoration surgery.  Each surgery is unique and for many, time & repeated procedures w/a clear focus on the overall plan for now and the future serves them best.

 

 

[Friedman]

41 minutes ago, jjsrader said:

Erdogan should work with him and I would not be surprised to see total satisfaction from this patient down the road when he does a 2nd session. 

Is it that obvious he should do a 2nd procedure? A hair transplant surgery is quite invasive -- I just had one. Your scalp hurts like hell for a week. Many people have a red scalp for months. You have to shave completely, and it takes months to regrow. Takes 6 months to really see the results. Sometimes the way to win wars is by not fighting them. Anyway, what is the OPs goal with his hair? Is it to be more successful in business? Because if he does another surgery, he'll have to take time off from work, and will will look worse in front of clients for a period of time, and he'll have to spend his hard-earned money on surgery. Is it to be more successful with women? Because he might find he can do just fine with his hair as-is. 

[Payam]

2 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

Because he's a rare poorer than average result for the graft number from this clinic. For one they'll also probably offer free replacement of grafts up to a 90% growth rate as they clarify. There are more good results from them than any other megasession FUE clinic you'll find, the reality is that not everyone gets perfect results, no matter who the doctor and no matter what the protocol.

In reality his hair quality average and the area covered was for the most part completely bare, 3200 grafts should have given a better result but that doesn't mean you should be expecting perfection. 

Honestly a lot of what you write about the clinic is just blatant lies. Not sure if you even realise it or its other personal issues going on but your comments don't seem tethered to reality in any way and ultimately come across like complaining for the sake of it. No one here who has done any research at all thinks that a slam dunk is a guarantee from ANY surgeon. People are aware of potential complications when they sign up, those who aren't just didn't do their research. No one is forcing you into having surgery and no one is saying it is risk free.

 

 

What exactly did i lie about? A slam dunk isn't garantueed with some clinics, this should especially be true for clinics that have it as a priority to maximize number of surgeries per day due to the added variables. 

[jjsrader]

4 hours ago, Friedman said:

Is it that obvious he should do a 2nd procedure? A hair transplant surgery is quite invasive -- I just had one. Your scalp hurts like hell for a week. Many people have a red scalp for months. You have to shave completely, and it takes months to regrow. Takes 6 months to really see the results. Sometimes the way to win wars is by not fighting them. Anyway, what is the OPs goal with his hair? Is it to be more successful in business? Because if he does another surgery, he'll have to take time off from work, and will will look worse in front of clients for a period of time, and he'll have to spend his hard-earned money on surgery. Is it to be more successful with women? Because he might find he can do just fine with his hair as-is. 

We all know what a pain in the ass transplants are to schedule/undergo/endure/wait out results/2nd & perhaps later surgeries - wash/repeat  (I don't even recommend them to regular people in my day to day dealings).  That's a fact I think we are all acutely aware of.

Um, hairloss surgery is a unique decision for every person; reasons for doing so are as varied as the person who gets one done.

And yes, there is evidence that pretty much 99%+ of men in society do just fine w/hair as-is, balding or otherwise.

In 2012 about 310,000 procedures worldwide would suggest that nearly 100% of men don't resort to cosmetic hair-restoration surgery.

However, that written - when done on suitable candidates w/good hair characteristics and moderate balding, well, you've seen alot of results here in the forum that are frankly quite extraordinary for those of us w/hair fetishes.

; ) ; )

Edited August 6, 2018 by jjsrader

[JayLDD]

5 hours ago, jjsrader said:

We all know what a pain in the ass transplants are to schedule/undergo/endure/wait out results/2nd & perhaps later surgeries - wash/repeat  (I don't even recommend them to regular people in my day to day dealings).  That's a fact I think we are all acutely aware of.

Um, hairloss surgery is a unique decision for every person; reasons for doing so are as varied as the person who gets one done.

And yes, there is evidence that pretty much 99%+ of men in society do just fine w/hair as-is, balding or otherwise.

In 2012 about 310,000 procedures worldwide would suggest that nearly 100% of men don't resort to cosmetic hair-restoration surgery.

However, that written - when done on suitable candidates w/good hair characteristics and moderate balding, well, you've seen alot of results here in the forum that are frankly quite extraordinary for those of us w/hair fetishes.

; ) ; )

Agree with this, but on the point of men doing fine without hair I've seen plenty of studies where well over 50% of balding men even in their 30s and 40s claim that hairloss impacts their confidence negatively and hurts their ability to socialise. Also a fairly significant amount claiming it causes depression.  I've seen others where close to a majority of bald men say they'd give up their friends or life savings for a full head of hair. Spex has also talked about the issue quite a bit also. Here's one study among many:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16307704

The reality is that society is more concerned by a wage gap that doesn't exist and the 1/1000 transgender persons in our society than issues of men and shames them for being vain and pathetic if they engage in treatment. Also from what I've seen very few men are actually aware that medical treatment like finasteride exists and that hair transplants aren't the same plugs from the 1980s.

 

And then you get disgusting articles like this one again pretending it isn't an issue and that medical research shouldn't focus on it, of course written by a woman who has the choice to avoid dating bald men and is happy to shame them, unlike the men who have no choice at all whether they suffer from alopecia.

https://www.ft.com/content/99c62b4e-3b06-11e3-87fa-00144feab7de

 

 

[JayLDD]

9 hours ago, Payam said:

What exactly did i lie about? A slam dunk isn't garantueed with some clinics, this should especially be true for clinics that have it as a priority to maximize number of surgeries per day due to the added variables. 

"A slam dunk isn't garantueed with some clinics, this should especially be true for clinics that have it as a priority to maximize number of surgeries per day due to the added variables. "

Well aside from the nonsensical ending of the sentence and the spelling errors, this is clearly false. No one who has done any research at all would say a slam dunk is guaranteed by any clinic, its a downright ridiculous thing to say and no doctor on the planet would suggest this either. The surgeons you have mentioned you would prefer to have gone to (all significantly more expensive also) have mediocre results online if you'd bothered to look.

Another lie was when you said ASMED don't advertise the fact that technicians do extractions and implantations, actually they do on their website and its EXPLICITLY in the consultation email they send before you book. I suspect you have some deeper issue with this sort of thing and aren't even aware you seem to compulsively lie but you should reflect and work on it. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by JeanLDD

[Payam]

1 hour ago, JeanLDD said:

"A slam dunk isn't garantueed with some clinics, this should especially be true for clinics that have it as a priority to maximize number of surgeries per day due to the added variables. "

Well aside from the nonsensical ending of the sentence and the spelling errors, this is clearly false. No one who has done any research at all would say a slam dunk is guaranteed by any clinic, its a downright ridiculous thing to say and no doctor on the planet would suggest this either. The surgeons you have mentioned you would prefer to have gone to (all significantly more expensive also) have mediocre results online if you'd bothered to look.

Another lie was when you said ASMED don't advertise the fact that technicians do extractions and implantations, actually they do on their website and its EXPLICITLY in the consultation email they send before you book. I suspect you have some deeper issue with this sort of thing and aren't even aware you seem to compulsively lie but you should reflect and work on it. 

This is false, nowhere in the pre-op consultation email did they state it is a tech driven operation, the only thing that came close to mentioning techs was was "Dr. Koray Erdogan will perform the surgery together with his surgical team. " and on the website I only found a mention of the techs under the insertion part. 

Also, stop with the childish personal attacks, they are not adding to the discussion.

[Rwethereyet]

Wow there's a lot going on here, I'll briefly answer some things mensioned. 

I was aware of the risks of doing a HT and I was well aware of how the HT procedure would be carried out at ASMED. I think people who enter in to a HT have some responsibility to do their own research. 

As for me doing a 2nd HT this may be something I would consider, however it would depend on cost and number of grafts required. I would be nervous using up a lot more grafts on the front 1/3 of my head. I roughly have 5000 grafts left in the bank based on my last consultation a year ago. I am now worried that it could be me who doesn't take well to a HT and I need more grafts than others to acheive the same result. I need to factor this in with future hair loss.  My original plan was to make sure over time I end up with a good density at the front 1/3 and enough grafts in the bank to cover the back section as I loose more hair.  If the end result many years down the line was subpar, I had run out of grafts and no other future options were available (I.e cloning etc) then I would shave my hair and go for micro pigmentation. This would give the illusion of a full thick head of hair cut very short.

So until I am 100% sure I am seeing my final result from my 1st HT I am in no rush to make a decision on what is best to do next.

When I look at my hair closely in the mirror there are still a lot of wirey hairs, this hairs and small fine hairs which look to be growing in. This tells me I am probably not seeing the final result.  I've taken a photo of a random spot close up to try to show you guys what I see, I'm not sure if it will still look good on here once compressed. You need to zoom in to see each of the hairs. 

[JayLDD]

32 minutes ago, Payam said:

2 minutes ago, Rwethereyet said:

Wow there's a lot going on here, I'll briefly answer some things mensioned. 

I was aware of the risks of doing a HT and I was well aware of how the HT procedure would be carried out at ASMED. I think people who enter in to a HT have some responsibility to do their own research. 

As for me doing a 2nd HT this may be something I would consider, however it would depend on cost and number of grafts required. I would be nervous using up a lot more grafts on the front 1/3 of my head. I roughly have 5000 grafts left in the bank based on my last consultation a year ago. I am now worried that it could be me who doesn't take well to a HT and I need more grafts than others to acheive the same result. I need to factor this in with future hair loss.  My original plan was to make sure over time I end up with a good density at the front 1/3 and enough grafts in the bank to cover the back section as I loose more hair.  If the end result many years down the line was subpar, I had run out of grafts and no other future options were available (I.e cloning etc) then I would shave my hair and go for micro pigmentation. This would give the illusion of a full thick head of hair cut very short.

So until I am 100% sure I am seeing my final result from my 1st HT I am in no rush to make a decision on what is best to do next.

When I look at my hair closely in the mirror there are still a lot of wirey hairs, this hairs and small fine hairs which look to be growing in. This tells me I am probably not seeing the final result.  I've taken a photo of a random spot close up to try to show you guys what I see, I'm not sure if it will still look good on here once compressed. You need to zoom in to see each of the hairs. 

 

Honestly even if I suspect that the results are close to their peak your approach is very level headed and sensible. Gives time to consider options and without seeing the results in person it still looks like its reasonable enough when worn flat for the time being.

 

[Legend007]

When u zoom in like that .. u can definitely see there’s lots of spaces in between hairs .. but ur hair right now isn’t bad .. just have to learn how to comb it to look presentable .. take ur time on deciding what u need to do next .. n see how much more hairloss u experience .. u being smart .. u thinking ahead .. so that’s a good thing .. 

[JayLDD]

1 hour ago, Payam said:

This is false, nowhere in the pre-op consultation email did they state it is a tech driven operation, the only thing that came close to mentioning techs was was "Dr. Koray Erdogan will perform the surgery together with his surgical team. " and on the website I only found a mention of the techs under the insertion part. 

Also, stop with the childish personal attacks, they are not adding to the discussion.

1 hour ago, Payam said:

 

They aren't childish, the small fibs and exaggerations you make add up and make it hard to know if you're genuine.  It's well established on forums where the clinic regularly posts and occasionally answers questions that the extractions and implantations are done by techs, and that email doesn't mention Koray performing either of those, only specifically mentioning him doing incisions. It also explicitly mentions a surgical team carrying out part of the procedure.  It's an industry standard outside of the US and on top of this other top FUE surgeons such as Feriduni and Lorenzo have a similar approach.

Also you outright said a few posts back that there are clinics where every case is a homerun, its so absurd that it's hard not to think it is trolling or lying for the sake of it. Either way I'm not going to respond to you anymore because you clearly are consistently lying or deliberately avoid facts such that it isn't possible to discuss anything with you. You've made up your mind and facts to the contrary of what you say seem to just make you double down even harder.

Edited August 7, 2018 by JeanLDD

[Mick50]

This case is obviously not a failure, neither is it a success .With the amount of grafts used to cover the frontal area, one would have  expected more density   .Asmed's signature  if you like is dense packing using a lot more grafts than most clinics for the same area but in this case for whatever reason the result is below par compared to most of the results I have seen form them .

How typical this is from the clinic I've no idea as normally the results the clinic post on here and patients own results  look pretty damn good. 

The OP is taking the right approach and waiting til the 18th month mark ,in my case I did see an improvement after the 12 month mark,but I agree with some of the posters by 12 months you pretty much know if you're happy or not with the transplant .

Dont see a major problem here as the result looks natural but most of us would want more density so hopefully Asmed will come up with a plan to achieve this .

[Payam]

32 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

They aren't childish, the small fibs and exaggerations you make add up and make it hard to know if you're genuine.  It's well established on forums where the clinic regularly posts and occasionally answers questions that the extractions and implantations are done by techs, and that email doesn't mention Koray performing either of those, only specifically mentioning him doing incisions. It also explicitly mentions a surgical team carrying out part of the procedure.  It's an industry standard outside of the US and on top of this other top FUE surgeons such as Feriduni and Lorenzo have a similar approach.

Also you outright said a few posts back that there are clinics where every case is a homerun, its so absurd that it's hard not to think it is trolling or lying for the sake of it. Either way I'm not going to respond to you anymore because you clearly are consistently lying or deliberately avoid facts such that it isn't possible to discuss anything with you. You've made up your mind and facts to the contrary of what you say seem to just make you double down even harder.

Sure the techs are mentioned on the forums, but nowhere in the process did they explain this to me. More importantly they never told me that he performs 4 surgeries a day in the pre-consultiation, and with good reason as myself and many others would have ran for the hills. Me and the other guys that had surgeries in those two days were extremely worried about this and none of us knew of it in advance. I very seldom see posts discussing the parallel surgeries.

Let me elaborate, I do believe there are clinics that have home-runs every time when possible, I.e every case when it is solely left to the skill of the techs and the surgeon, discounting very rare external and biological factors. 

In the case with Asmed, they use an inordinate number of grafts and sometimes produce results like this, why? 

[BigBen]

A year later and the density doesn't look good enough in my opinion. However, I praise the OP for his patience and mettle, that's how it should be. I agree with Mick50, now that you have taken the surgery path and once you are ready, at the 18th month, I would contact Asmed again expecting them to provide a plan to achieve a better result. They guarantee that 90% of the grafts bloom and they believe this percentage is generally higher. It was one of the reasons why I chose them.

I really wish you the very best and, remember, you are not the first one requiring a touch-up. Keep us posted and congratulations for your thread.

[raadisson]

Honestly your results are very discouraging. I guess Erdogan is not perfect after all

[Payam]

4 hours ago, raadisson said:

Honestly your results are very discouraging. I guess Erdogan is not perfect after all

He has some good results, but the way people sing his praises you would think he was the god of FUE. Seems very hit and miss with this guy, some godly for the graft count, some average, others sub par. Not surprising when he has multiple teams of techs doing the extracting simultaneously without supervision. I have seen two other very recent (mine excluded) surgeries from him that have extremely worrying progress.

[Mick50]

 

On 8/7/2018 at 10:37 AM, Payam said:

Sure the techs are mentioned on the forums, but nowhere in the process did they explain this to me. More importantly they never told me that he performs 4 surgeries a day in the pre-consultiation, and with good reason as myself and many others would have ran for the hills. Me and the other guys that had surgeries in those two days were extremely worried about this and none of us knew of it in advance. I very seldom see posts discussing the parallel surgeries.

 Let me elaborate, I do believe there are clinics that have home-runs every time when possible, I.e every case when it is solely left to the skill of the techs and the surgeon, discounting very rare external and biological factors. 

 In the case with Asmed, they use an inordinate number of grafts and sometimes produce results like this, why? 

I think something worth taking into account for everyone person who uses this site there probably 10 who do not, and go ahead with a hair transplant and are at the mercy of whatever clinic/Doc they choose, I know people will say well it's their own fault etc but we all know how hair loss can sometimes affect a person's thought process and logical thinking ..In Payam's defence if you go onto Asmed's site  it is a bit misleading as to who does the extractions, the way it is written you would think it is the Doc who uses a magnifier before extracting the grafts, if you go on the site and click on 'What We Do At Asmed ' it doesn't say the techs perform that part of the surgery .In the interest of transparency I feel this needs to be made clear that Dr Erdogan just does the pre -op ,hairline etc but only does the incisions and the techs do the rest .   

[HG1]

6 hours ago, Payam said:

He has some good results, but the way people sing his praises you would think he was the god of FUE. Seems very hit and miss with this guy, some godly for the graft count, some average, others sub par. Not surprising when he has multiple teams of techs doing the extracting simultaneously without supervision. I have seen two other very recent (mine excluded) surgeries from him that have extremely worrying progress.

Payam,

Why did you choose Asmed if you have such a downer on the Clinic? 

[Payam]

3 hours ago, HG1 said:

Payam,

Why did you choose Asmed if you have such a downer on the Clinic? 

Hey mate, simple answer is bad research. I barely even read the forums, I only looked at his results and the youtube videos where they post the perfect results only. Also I went in thinking he would be way more involved in the process, in reality you meet the guy for about ten minutes in total before the surgery. I also didn't know he doesn't do the extraction anymore, but most importantly, I had no idea from anything I had seen that he has several teams of techs that do extractions, and that they do 4 surgeries a day in parallel mostly unsupervised.

[HG1]

16 minutes ago, Payam said:

Hey mate, simple answer is bad research. I barely even read the forums, I only looked at his results and the youtube videos where they post the perfect results only. Also I went in thinking he would be way more involved in the process, in reality you meet the guy for about ten minutes in total before the surgery. I also didn't know he doesn't do the extraction anymore, but most importantly, I had no idea from anything I had seen that he has several teams of techs that do extractions, and that they do 4 surgeries a day in parallel mostly unsupervised.

Well to be fair you are very honest about your own short comings. Personally had I been that concerned at the consultation I would have not gone through with the surgery.

Any large surgery involves a team of highly trained professionals, as long as the surgeon is over seeing the procedure and undertaking the important parts supported by trained and competent staff - you cannot really ask for anymore. It's impossible to undertake large FUE cases by the Dr himself. That's why the Dr's that do most of the work are limited to small cases. Personally I think you are upset with yourself more than anybody for your perceived poor choice of clinic. Please stay positive Payam.