Donor scar options

[CaddyTad77]

Guys lets live life! Carpe diem, gather thee rosebuds will thee may, our days here are never promised. I know hair loss holds our minds hostages at times but the inner life- the life of the mind, exercising both mind and body, and generally just being healthy and enjoying life is more important than bickering over hair and FUE or FUT. I graduated grade school in 1987, its time to move on.

Edited October 7, 2013 by CaddyTad77

[greatjob]

Dear oh dear, well if the reps still selling risky old FUT can sleep at night and there are still those prepared to run the risks, then so be it.

 

I just hope we don't continue to see the'help, my scar has stretched' posts on here and those still opting for the slice don't face any complications or have to have subsequent repair work or cover up work such as SMP further down the line.

 

Rob

You asked " who strip would best serve in this day and age", and I told you. You can choose to believe strip is not the best option for anyone, like me, just like I can choose to believe the sky is red, but it doesn't mean either of them is true.

 

Both procedures have their place, that is a reality until donor regeneration is here. Continued advancement in fue has resulted in it being a better option for more people, and that will continue , but it is still not the best option for EVERY PATIENT.

[scar5]

Spangler,

 

That's a pretty bad FUE scarred guy you got up there to warn people about FUE scarring. Those 1mm punches weren't good.

 

Poor guy, you can see why he went for FUE, that nasty strip scar on the left of the picture (I think you could crop the picture for better results) l

 

Just think, the poor guy gets a nasty strip scar, vows to himself, never again and tries something new in FUE, gets 1mm punches, and then hands over his picture to a strip clinic so that they can use it to scare people into doing something that stated his whole misadventure - to a nasty strip scar.

 

He has inadvertently become a poster big for strip, after all his trouble! I bet that wasn't on his bucket list. Then again, spending my days around here warning people about strip scars surely 'ain't on mine!

 

Well that guy will need some SMP in those scars, and he might, might be OK. As for the strip scar, he'll never be able to hide that.

 

I never said every strip scar is a catastrophe, but I say, you never know when that strip scar will come back to haunt you.

Edited October 8, 2013 by scar5
Spell

[Spanker]

Spangler,

 

That's a pretty bad FUE scarred guy you got up there to warn people about FUE scarring. Those 1mm punches weren't good.

 

Poor guy, you can see why he went for FUE, that nasty strip scar on the left of the picture (I think you could crop the picture for better results) l

 

Just think, the poor guy gets a nasty strip scar, vows to himself, never again and tries something new in FUE, gets 1mm punches, and then hands over his picture to a strip clinic so that they can use it to scare people into doing something that stated his whole misadventure - to a nasty strip scar.

 

He has inadvertently become a poster big for strip, after all his trouble! I bet that wasn't on his bucket list. Then again, spending my days around here warning people about strip scars surely 'ain't on mine!

 

Well that guy will need some SMP in those scars, and he might, might be OK. As for the strip scar, he'll never be able to hide that.

 

I never said every strip scar is a catastrophe, but I say, you never know when that strip scar will come back to haunt you.

 

Scare,

 

I don't know where Mickey got that photo from, I just copied and pasted his thread for the reasons stated above. You can read about it if you like.

 

I have no idea what kind of scar that is. It could be a strip scar, could be anything. I did not post that for the photo. That is all Mickey's work, and I think that he was just showing what poor FUE scarring can look like.

[scar5]

Ha.. !! Sorry Sank!

 

Nice one scar!!

 

Now I'm scr@?&d!

 

You rest your case!!!

[CaddyTad77]

Seriously what year did we all graduate from grade school? This forum reminds me of Norman Rockwell's the Gossips at times.....Bickering like a bunch of blue haired grandmas at a hair salon!

Anyone new to this site, do not waste much time on here. You could be reading a great novel, spending time with your family, walking the dog. Whatever it is you like to do in life do it!

This back and forth FUE vs FUT is almost comical, but tragically so, like the poor characters chasing they're tails in Dante's Inferno. Everybody on each side has an agenda. Is this the dreaded rabbit hole I've fallen down? The reps, or online-consults, usually are the guys who had great transplants and now praise and spread the word of they're chosen doctor with a one sided fanaticism usually reserved for religious cult members! And then you got people who had a bad outcome spreading the word with the same one sided fanaticism. It's no longer a civil discussion of FUE or FUT anymore just alot of "White Noise"

Edited October 8, 2013 by CaddyTad77

[greatjob]

Seriously what year did we all graduate from grade school?

Hey man calm down with the elitist attitude, coming on here with your grade school diploma and throwing it in our face...

[scar5]

Caddy,

I can only speak for myself, I agree these seem silly from the outside, and I seem silly a lot of the time too.

 

But there is one big lie that keeps getting perpetuated by the reps, that strip and fue have a stable relationship, that it has always been, and always will be that way, and it is BS. Helping a newbie become aware of that is good in my book. I don't always go about it well. (see above! llol)

 

Of course strip gets you big fat hair fast,. Just saying.

[Mickey85]

Strip advocates often say both strip and FUE have their place but never elaborate on what exactly their places are. I for one don't endorse strip being used to treat low norwoods under normal circumstances. I really think that all surgeons should give patients the option to undergo a less invasive procedure in order to restore their hair. I feel strip should be a last resort. If the patient has extensive loss and poor donor density, then strip would be warranted. However with FUE surgeons pushing the bar, FUE's 'place' is growing larger.

 

Also, for repair purposes, clinics should be able to offer the patient an avenue to properly remedy their problems. One guy I spoke to had very badly angled grafts placed in his temples from a notorious surgeon. He went to one of the top strip clinics about a repair and because they don't practice FUE they could not do anything about the badly angled grafts and simply told him to pluck them out. I find it very strange that a top hair clinic would not have a remedy for such a small problem.

[CaddyTad77]

Hey man calm down with the elitist attitude, coming on here with your grade school diploma and throwing it in our face...

 

I see the boys of summer in their ruin

Lay the gold tithings barren,

Setting no store by harvest, freeze the soils

These boys of light are curdlers in their folly,

Sour the boiling honey;

Of doubt and dark they feed their nerves;

The signal moon is zero in their voids- Dylan Thomas

[CaddyTad77]

Hey man calm down with the elitist attitude, coming on here with your grade school diploma and throwing it in our face...

 

I see the boys of summer in their ruin

Lay the gold tithings barren,

Setting no store by harvest, freeze the soils

These boys of light are curdlers in their folly,

Sour the boiling honey;

Of doubt and dark they feed their nerves;

The signal moon is zero in their voids- Dylan Thomas

[Spanker]

Caddy,

I can only speak for myself, I agree these seem silly from the outside, and I seem silly a lot of the time too.

 

But there is one big lie that keeps getting perpetuated by the reps, that strip and fue have a stable relationship, that it has always been, and always will be that way, and it is BS. Helping a newbie become aware of that is good in my book. I don't always go about it well. (see above! llol)

 

Of course strip gets you big fat hair fast,. Just saying.

 

I am not sure why you think that reps are perpetuating this? Chrisdav is not a rep, Gillinator is not rep. greatjob is not a rep, 1978Matt is not a rep. I am sure that there are many more that are not reps that do believe that there is a stable relationship between the 2. I feel like these guys have performed very good research and are just as intelligent as you or I. Sometimes people disagree on issues. I think the key to these discussions is to present your argument, debate, and let the folks researching decide. I don't think it is b.s., I think that people just come to different conclusions sometimes.

[chrisdav]

Strip advocates often say both strip and FUE have their place but never elaborate on what exactly their places are.

 

This is taken from Dr Feriduni's website:

 

Both techniques - FUE and FUT - have very good success prospects, but: there is no one best or right method - each method has its own pros and cons.

The decision on which extraction method to use should be individually weighed up in consultation with the hair restoration surgeon. There are many factors needing to be taken into consideration. A hair surgeon must be in a position to assess future natural hair loss, the quality and density of existing hair, and in particular the hair structure. He must also be able to calculate the number of grafts needing to be extracted to fulfil a patient's wishes, discuss alternative forms of treatment such as a medication-based therapy, and explain to the patient the pros and cons of each technique. In addition, comprehensive tests need to be carried out before any recommendation for any one extraction method can be issued.

 

 

This is taken from Dr Bisanga's website:

 

Hair Characteristics

 

Hair characteristics and FU constitution can play a large part in how suitable FUE can be; it is misunderstood that FUE is suitable for all hair loss stages and hair types and some may not have the right attributes to ensure a solid result. This can be due to reasons such as donor hair density or hair diameter, including the % of miniaturisation in the donor or the average size of a person’s natural groupings of hair as well as skin texture and healing properties. If there is a doubt when consulting on line then a personal consultation would always be the best option before making your decision.

 

Two world leading surgeons that perform larger session FUE to a very high standard that also perform FUT surgery to a very high standard see both procedures having a place in hair transplantation.

 

 

 

I for one don't endorse strip being used to treat low norwoods under normal circumstances and I feel strip should be a last resort

 

Mickey that is your opinion. I am a lower norwood and I was only to happy to have strip surgery. I will continue to have strip surgery until I have exhausted my donor supply with strip and then have Fue. The scar is a non-issue for me and Fut was my first resort. Not everyone is completely fixated with linear scarring. If someone is fixated and over obsessive about any aspect of surgery then they should forget about having surgery altogether.

 

 

Also, for repair purposes, clinics should be able to offer the patient an avenue to properly remedy their problems. One guy I spoke to had very badly angled grafts placed in his temples from a notorious surgeon. He went to one of the top strip clinics about a repair and because they don't practice FUE they could not do anything about the badly angled grafts and simply told him to pluck them out. I find it very strange that a top hair clinic would not have a remedy for such a small problem.

 

Ideally it is beneficial if a clinic can perform both I agree. However, the one individual case above does not really illustrate anything. You could pick another independent individual case like Joetronic who has openly stated he would have not be repaired via Fue alone.

 

 

Bill, the moderators and the surgeons must sit and laugh at these threads.

I find these threads tiresome, silly and it keeps recurring because the same obsessive individuals again and again and again and again cannot accept the reality that both procedures have a place in the hair restoration industry.

[1978matt]

chrisdav - Dr F and Dr B can't be right because Mickey's FUE/FUT thread proved FUE was far superior!

 

Bill, the moderators and the surgeons must sit and laugh at these threads.

I find these threads tiresome, silly and it keeps recurring because the same obsessive individuals again and again and again and again cannot accept the reality that both procedures have a place in the hair restoration industry.

 

You're right and I'm not going to argue anymore. It makes no difference anyway provided readers go to a few decent HTN doctors and get a consensus of opinions. I just worry about people who go to those dodgy clinics like HTI... what's the name of their doctor again?!

[scar5]

chrisdav - Dr F and Dr B can't be right because Mickey's FUE/FUT thread proved FUE was far superior!

 

.....It makes no difference anyway provided readers go to a few decent HTN doctors and get a consensus of opinions.!

 

Alright,

 

I step forth with the a new dignity, chastened and scolded in the wrath of Dylan Thomas (by the way Caddy, by the way those boys of summer bonk a lotta gals while their crops suffer)

 

I wouldn't be dissin' that Mickey thread on account of Dr. B and Dr F 'opinions'. You will learn more from that thread than one hundred personal consults with either of those docs, their reps, or their disciples. Why? Because the doc's don't know? Of course not. They both know infinitely more than all of us combined.

 

But they won't play ping-pong with us willy-nilly. Much of what they know is implicit, can surface in a context that is not defined or restricted, and thus is dangerous in the hands and fingers of overly agitated posters like myself. No fodder for a loose cannon, please, especially when dollars and sense mix.

 

To a doc. strip and FUE both have their place. It makes perfect sense to say that, to KNOW that. It is real and it is true from a clinics perspective.

 

As a consumer, the danger lies not in the question,

"Does a strip scar have a place on my head?" (a very sensible question)

 

but in the cards of information are stacked and interpreted by them in that limited window of attention they have to apply to the task of 'shopping around'

Little do they know that the 'consensus' rapidly changes year-to-

year.

"Dr. F. told me 'both strip and FUE have their place. OK, I'm fine with that. Now what?" ...and the frame is defined..it looks solid going forward. All these silly little bickerings are interpreted through that initial template.

 

It's a shame that newbies don't want to look back in time and see how fast the market adapts, how rapidly things can change.

 

You buy a product, then a few weeks later, a brand new revolutionary model is released.

 

i'm sure that in 1905, the sales team at Stanley Cars would tell 'em, 'Both Steam and Gasoline cars have their place'

 

Steam cars themselves, of the regular variety, much much faster than gasoline cars for many decades and with more torque but rapidly faded. Who wants to set up steam in the garage before picking up a quart of milk?

 

Is strip a steam car? No. But it does build pressure within a head, with time.

[CaddyTad77]

Of frozen loves they fetch their girls,

And drown the cargoed apples in their tides-Dylan Thomas

 

Oh yea, the crops may be suffering but the babes will always be hungry for a lick of corn

[Mickey85]

.

 

 

I find these threads tiresome, silly and it keeps recurring because the same obsessive individuals again and again and again and again cannot accept the reality that both procedures have a place in the hair restoration industry.

 

 

And yet you contribute to them. Funny really. I do not start these threads, I only contribute to them much like you do.

[Mickey85]

chrisdav - Dr F and Dr B can't be right because Mickey's FUE/FUT thread proved FUE was far superior!

 

 

 

 

I actually agree with Dr Feriduni and Dr Bisanga's protocols. They don't perform strip on guys under 30 and they prefer to use FUE when they can. They won't use strip on a Norwood 2. The fact that Bisanga is 80% FUE and Feriduni is 60% FUE shows that FUE's 'place' is far larger than many strip fanatics think.

[s2thoudriver]

"I just worry about people who go to those dodgy clinics like HTI"

 

Bit of a bold statement that 1978matt.

 

My FUE results with HTI and others also on here are amongst the best out there, the facilities are top class and they only employ highly experienced FUE surgeons.

 

Care to explian why HTI is not a supposed dodgy clinic?...

 

Or is it deemed as dodgy because they get the results by using the latest tools and teqniques at a decent price?...

 

That's more likely, as i can understand that it would put my nose out of joint if i'd paid twice as much for strip :rolleyes:

[chrisdav]

And yet you contribute to them. Funny really. I do not start these threads, I only contribute to them much like you do.

 

Mickey,

 

I barely post in general and rarely on threads such as these because they are quite frankly pointless.

 

Regarding Dr B and Dr F, I have seen them both perform strip on under 30's and if they feel it is necessary or the patient asked for it, then they would. I would have asked for strip from either of them as they do very good FUE and FUT.

 

I think you misunderstand this notion of "strip fanatic". None of the guys posting are strip fanatics in the slightest. If you read most of the threads like this, you will see that the guys who are obsessive, compulsive and sometimes emotionally bias about FUE are usually jumping on threads and then you will often see other well informed posters tell replying and telling them what they are saying is rubbish.

 

Arguing backwards and forwards until you are blue in the face does not solve anything and I have not got the time to waste.

[MAGNUMpi]

Seriously what year did we all graduate from grade school? This forum reminds me of Norman Rockwell's the Gossips at times.....Bickering like a bunch of blue haired grandmas at a hair salon!

Anyone new to this site, do not waste much time on here. You could be reading a great novel, spending time with your family, walking the dog. Whatever it is you like to do in life do it!

This back and forth FUE vs FUT is almost comical, but tragically so, like the poor characters chasing they're tails in Dante's Inferno. Everybody on each side has an agenda. Is this the dreaded rabbit hole I've fallen down? The reps, or online-consults, usually are the guys who had great transplants and now praise and spread the word of they're chosen doctor with a one sided fanaticism usually reserved for religious cult members! And then you got people who had a bad outcome spreading the word with the same one sided fanaticism. It's no longer a civil discussion of FUE or FUT anymore just alot of "White Noise"

I disagree. Threads like this contain a lot of very useful information about both procedures and people's experiences with them. Invaluable.

[Mickey85]

Mickey,

 

 

Regarding Dr B and Dr F, I have seen them both perform strip on under 30's and if they feel it is necessary or the patient asked for it, then they would. I would have asked for strip from either of them as they do very good FUE and FUT.

 

 

 

 

 

Around the 1 minute mark.

 

The try to avoid the strip technique for people under 30. MPBsucks said Feriduni refused to perform strip on him due to his age even though he has great laxity. They don't perform strip on under 30s in general. Not to say they have not done a special case here or there, but in general, they don't.

[Mickey85]

Arguing backwards and forwards until you are blue in the face does not solve anything and I have not got the time to waste.

 

Some of us like to have a proper debate. I like debating with Greatjob, I like debating with Spanker. Those guys bring up great points and ask clever questions. It isn't about solving anything.

[Mickey85]

Mickey that is your opinion. I am a lower norwood and I was only to happy to have strip surgery. I will continue to have strip surgery until I have exhausted my donor supply with strip and then have Fue. The scar is a non-issue for me and Fut was my first resort. Not everyone is completely fixated with linear scarring. If someone is fixated and over obsessive about any aspect of surgery then they should forget about having surgery altogether.

 

Your case could have been solved via FUE. Not taking anything away from your result as your hair looks awesome, but FUE could have been utilized and have given a very similar result.

 

Again, it is not just about the linear scarring, that is only one drawback to strip. You might not mind your strip scar but there are people out there that do. People deserve to know that strip is more invasive, that is has more chance of leaving the donor area numb, that is changes the natural hair geometry and hair caliber gradation, that the scar can stretch regardless of the surgeon.

 

Two world leading surgeons that perform larger session FUE to a very high standard that also perform FUT surgery to a very high standard see both procedures having a place in hair transplantation.

 

And I agree with them. Both attempt to avoid strip if possible reeserving it for higher loss. I agree with that. If a Norwood 5 doesn't have the density for FUE but had the laxity, then it makes sense for them to consider strip. However if a norwood 2 went to Feriduni or Bisanga, chances are very high that they would recommend FUE to them. I don't see what you are arguing about here(unless you are discussing this with someone else in the thread?) because I never said strip doesn't have a place. Just that it's place is far smaller than some people think.

[1978matt]

 

Around the 1 minute mark.

 

The try to avoid the strip technique for people under 30. MPBsucks said Feriduni refused to perform strip on him due to his age even though he has great laxity. They don't perform strip on under 30s in general. Not to say they have not done a special case here or there, but in general, they don't.

 

 

You've quoted about 10% of what the doctor says and conveniently left out the rest! I've typed it out:

 

“We try to avoid strip in each case where the patient which has the age younger than 30 years which have some problems from the skin….if we see some problems with the structure of the skin...but in general we say that 30 years is a good age to think about strip or FUE but everybody under 30 is in general a good candidate for an FUE.”