scar5

Making money is popular. Going to court is not popular. Having a long day bending your back is not popular The only reason strip has not gone the way of the dinosaur is because of laws prohibiting tech extraction in the states. All the rest is all baloney. That comes first. The excuses do not come close to changing this - and they are familiar; 'great laxity', 'bang-for-buck', 'shot-gun blasts', 'hype', 'fibrotic scarring making subsequent procedures difficult', 'great hands', 'gold standard', 'ultra-refined' , " m'FUE'" and whatever else comes out of the strip marketing spout. FUE has it's place!! Who said that? Who is the boss now? Right now, there are tens of thousands of men walking around malls in North America with an empty crown, a clump of hair up front and an 'oh well' look on their face. How does it bestow upon a man to get a line cut across the back of his head pop propecia and hope for the best. No one suits strip...period, although I don't doubt the short term impact a good strip job can make for a front on pic. Just don't look sideways, like Dr. Feller did in his video. FUE is now in first place...just the inertia of the people who are not willing to travel or don't know any better. Bless them.

Dr. Feller referring to damage in the donor region here. The strip cut is deep. long and forms a long continuous barrier. Think Great Wall of China. FUE, on the other hand are shallow and allow some space between each follicles. Perhaps this explains to me, why nerve damage done by my first strip, in 1988 and several since have led to wierd sensations on my scalp in odd places. I can literally scratch my head on the right side and feel some tingling on the left! I have done many strips and FUE and I can tell you every FUE recovery has been a breeze. Strip had me guessing and worrying six-eights months after each and every time. As for SMP. The problem with SMP immediately post HT is smudging. With your strip scar, it is not a problem as much, but on the hairline etc. it could be less than good. Here you want a much more delicate touch. At least that is what SMP practitioners have told me. In fact many say wait 12 months!

I don't. Why do say that? I have been consistent about this. a) A perfect strip scar is a disaster if you lose your crown and don't like the empty crown, donut, horse shoe..whatever you call it b) The best hands can give you a perfect or a terrible strip scar c) The best hands can give you a perfect scar in the first pass, and a less than perfect scar next time d) The "worst doctor" can give you a perfect scar. e) The same doctor can give the same patient the perfect scar and the most dreadful scar. f) FUE can be poor g) FUE offers you a line of retreat if meds fail, loss continues or you are just fed up h) North American strip jobs tend to be front loaded. Why are strip jobs front-loaded? Because you can get a bucket load of hair from a single strip super fast on your first pass and you are probably just starting your journey. They'll say, 'Let's do the front first and address the crown later" I can't tell you how many times I've been told this by strip doctors. The slow and steady approach on the other hand, suits FUE. Low density crown filled scalps suit FUE. They can be buzzed for an even tone. Strip requires 4 /5/6 guard to cover the strip scar. A thin crown cannot stands out more at those lengths. YOu are trapped, and have to keep coming back for more to fight it, because you can't buzz. This is what I do harp on about. Once you jump on the strip train, you are a passenger for life - you have to keep coming back to address the crown, each time risking the strip scar, but you have already had a strip, so why not again? This was the economic model for strip clinics. Now they will say that they will offer you FUE after you are stripped out, after having told you FUE was hype and unreliable in the first place. At that point it makes almost no difference. Note, this Dr. Feller mFUE is not for virgin scalps!! Dr. Feller was quite categorical in stating that all patients will get strip as the default option (Gold Standard lol!)

Yes, the revision was probably a waste. People should know, even in the hands of experts, these guys can't guarantee you won't get in trouble. Given another chance you would have been better going for a global FUE approach rather than a front-loaded one. However, in the days of facebook, tinder etc., front on profiles are important...but not, IMO, as important as having something you can walk around with without looking like a clown. One thing, never assume the the FUE people are the good guys. They are just the same as the strip guys, except they are operating in a different environment. They will over harvest you in a heartbeat! But even if they do, as they did in my case, it is no big deal in a relative sense. I know that sounds bad, but at least you can buzz down if the punches are around .8mm. You may have to address the tone with SMP or hair bleach in really bad scenarios (greying will help) , but essentially, the integrity of your scalp from an aesthetic point of you, is still sound. Just one strip scar trumps over-harvested in the clown stakes.

Dr. Feller said nothing has changed in 14 years with FUE. I think he means the laws in New York haven't changed (technicians cannot assist in extraction). And so he is wheeling out the same rhetoric of yesterday...only now he has a new kid on the block...a moderator no less. FUE has grown immensely in stature and it hasn't been hype - it is real and customers are voting. They are flying out. He also believes FUE was invented for the purposes of supplementing strip, when patients have been 'stripped out'. No it wasn't. It was invented for one reason only. To do away with the linear scar. I think Dr. Feller challenging people to give away their identity is a good move for him. He knows the stakes for us are different. Do not, under any circumstances get sucked in unless you know what you are doing. We should be grateful to people like Mickey85 for having the guts and composure top post his views in the face of this marketing barrage. I think it hurts Dr. Feller and Dr. Bloxham - this anti-FUE campaign - and make no mistake, that is what it is (nevermind the 'I love FUE disclaimers') Bottom line is I must be wrong. It actually helps them, or at least they think it does. Perhaps it is strip's last gasp. When it comes to statements like 'I know Dr. Lorenzo, we are great mates etc..' I wouldn't take it seriously. I've always had the view that doctor's private views, their aptitude/competence, their best and their worst , be it technical, ethical etc. are off limits to us. i wouldn't mind if deep down , in the bottom of his heart Lorenzo thinks strip is better, or if Feller thinks FUE is better, or scalp-reduction. It nothing to do with me. They won't tell us for the obvious reasons. I do know about the circumstances. I do believe I know what 'tends to happen' due to the context of a hair transplant. Take a look at Dr. Feller's hair. That is what I think of as a prototypical front loaded north American strip job. (and I would say it , even if it were, in fact, an FUE because of those characteristics) The crown is empty. the front is strong. Bang for buck. If you can tolerate a bald crown, a thin look behind but a grand front, then strip you go. Now some will say the choice of technique has nothing to do with the placement of grafts. I believe it does. As for yield, I don't know. I've always suspected strip would do better but I wouldn't know. These days, some of these FUE jobs look great. Guys, don't get personal. I think FUE is really maturing now into the principal and soundest method to restore your hair. If you have a bald crown like Dr. Feller's or mine (getting that way anyway) you have the option to retreat. No scar. Quick recovery and you know that you did not feed these guys who are unfortunately, hamstrung by the law.

Nothing personal Doctor. You proved nothing. Zilch... other than that you are willing to blow smoke all over the simple fact that, a) It takes a doctor 40 min max, to extract 3000-4000 grafts via strip b) It takes a doctor 100% of two full days (OK maybe one l-o-n-g one using a mechanical device) to extract the same amount of follicles using FUE if - IF - AND IT IS THE KEY POINT - HE IS IN A JURISDICTION LIKES YOURS (NEW YORK) where technicians are not allowed to assist in extraction. c) Now in Turkey/Europe or other places, it is a different story. Guys, Blake's economic argument...I hope you can see through the (thin) smoke. Exclusive FUE in New York is completely economically and (physiologically?) a drain. A bit of part-time FUE is good for business, but that is another story. And mFUE? Well, that is not FUE at all so whatever.

Man..some us are not gonna blow smoke up your ass. THis is real. These guys are gonna cut you a line right across the back of your head, ear-to-ear. You say , "'m not the buzz kinda guy" and I wouldn't know, but I'll say this. I was pretty young when I said I'd never buzz. Maybe you are older and know yourself more, but I swore I'd never buzz. I loathed the buzz cut on white guys (I'm white, so that might be another thing I dunno) I hated the shaved macho, the sports guy, the army, security guard, gym instructor buzz crap - hated it all. I wanted the messy muso thing, in fact I had that thing going on. But ten years later, all I wanted to do was buzz. The buzz cut is completely unfashionable now and long hair, slicked back is all what is going on but still, I say, there are merits to the buzz when you have had a gut full of hairloss. Have you checked out the videos for Corey Wayne? Look at his hairloss one. I don't think he looks good, but I think he feels good. Perhaps he wouldn't sell much real estate with a buzz, I dunno. It is a long road. After these guys have cut your head open they are moving on. Don't for one second think these guys wouldn't be doing full on FUE if they didn't have the law on their side. That means, if they could legally pay technicians to extract, they'd be doing it! And we wouldn't have this mFUE spin. - which according to them is supposed to give strip yield with FUE scarring yet strangely you get strip anyway cause that is the first option anyway (according to their spin):confused: You have to take a wider look. You may be grateful you didn't get a strip scar and pay these guys - reward these guys - for their gambit, one day in the future.

If FUE yield is poor, it will be poor in small areas too. Always makes me wonder why guys who are concerned with FUE yield - and of course they should be - start thinking that small areas will be OK! BS!! this is not alright. If you have temple holes, empty crowns and especially scar tissue, what is sub-par yield gonna do? Make you feel worse. Either it works or it doesn't. And JO, never ever ever believe that filling a strip scar with FUE will guarantee you will not look like a clown if you lose your crown. Your scar could be buckled, have dips etc. And never assume a scar won't bother you at sometime in the deep future. If you lose more hair, and you don't like a thin crown (check Dr. Feller's crown - typical front-loaded North American strip job) you will ask your self about buzzing and being 'free' of all this. Strip = No Exit. No line of retreat. The only line is the scar line, and no matter what you tell yourself about it, it means nothing in eyes of society. You are a marked man. Vanity, hair transplant etc..

:confused: Of course it is outrageous. Full credit to Dr. Feller and Dr. Bloxham though. I respect them even more. Ultra-refined shark-jumping show piece. It is an interesting tactic I must say. a: These chumps are flying to Turkey FUE. FUE is killing us. b: We can't pay techs to extract so it 'aint no bang-for-buck for us. a: What are we gonna do? b: Let's just make little strips and call it FUE? a: Wait...no one is gonna swallow that! b: Look a, think about it. Who is not gonna swallow it? a: All the cynical vets, the reps, other docs. b: yeah...come on...so what....and then? a: OK..now I'm gettin' it...the cynical vets can be written off as nut cases, the other vets love us man, come on. The reps? b: We'll have Jotronic fly in for support, him and Spex go way back! a: Right, and the moderators can't do sh&'t about it either! b: Exactly..we'll call it what we want! And you watch, mark my words. We'll be getting compliments in no time. Some of these newbies will write up their joy, you watch, "THanks Dr. Feller, gee I didn't know about those FUE shotgun blasts, but thank you..now I know strip is the only way." Wait...did I say strip...mFUE or strip a: That's my boy. We use FUE to lure them, then disqualify it with this mFUE thing, whilst telling them the virtues of strip and how bad shot gun blasts are when you get them in the head. They buy mFUE or strip. Either way we win Three days later. b: Wow, we sure seem to be copping some flack for calling our new strip technique, modified FUE! a: Ha...yeah we got 12 ne clients too. Did you bring me breakfast? b: Yep..here it is, your usual toasted sandwich a: Holy sh&t b, it tastes like chalk inside this damn sandwich! WTF did they put in it? b: mCheese...modified cheese!

I call on you all, as moderators at HTN, to clearly define the terms of procedure types for hair transplants. I specifically refer the the Feller clinic's attempt to call their latest kind of procedure 'mFUE' . FUE stands for Follicular Unit Extraction For the sake of the integrity of the HTN, please do not allow this to slide. Show some standards! Make it clear. FUE means one follicle unit is extracted from the scalp at a time. You should also call FUT either strip or FUSS, because all FUE is FUT - that is real FUE. You can call Dr. Feller's new technique, "Slab extraction". SE. but what ever you do, do not let them call it FUE. You are demeaning the name of FUE. Act now for the your long term integrity.

If I were younger, I would say it is a disgrace. Far from me to question any doctor's ethics or medical credentials, but as for their marketing game, it is fair game, and Doctor Feller's latest attempt to regain some credibility on that score is pitiful. Hasson and Wong have degraded themselves going for Artas (if it as bad as it appears to be - once again I wouldn't know, the specifics , just the marketing) and Jotronic knows it. He jumped ship at the right time. Dr. Feller's video is a sham and it is vital that everybody watches it. Firstly, The name mFUE is a disgrace. It is not FUE. How does Dr. Feller address that? He simply says in his dodgy video, "It just really means non-strip" lol "I just see it as non-strip...fine!" he quirks. It is just an insult to any hair loss sufferer and hair transplant recipient when he says, "Massive donor damage" in reference to FUE (that's real FUE) The strip scar is a red flag,,,FUE is not. He also says, "FUE by defintion an alternate procedure" Gold Standard spin for sure. Coming from one who bemoaned the 'FUE hype' and now cashing in on FUE's success by making up this dodgy mFUE acronym and then explaining it away by saying it is non-strip. Well, I guess Donald Trump and any scalp reduction guys out there must be pleased that they received FUE. We should take these clowns to the cleaners. What a load of BS. Such a pity they have to stoop to this level. America has the technology, the know how to be brilliant and now this dribble. If ever there was a reason to get on a plane and get out if the US for an HT, this is it.

Because the current one is not delivering. It is not delivering a 'bang for buck' for US clinics. US clinics cannot pay technicians to extract follicles. There are other good reasons to improve FUE, but this is the primary motivation. It is the big loco at the front of the train/ All aboard? I don't think so. Hate to beat the same drum. - don't we all.

1) Let's get some of the dust cleared out. = This is not FUE 2) North American clinics are shackled by their inability to allow tech extraction and thus....

Yeah, I hear you there ontop - that is a pretty lame name btw, but it is much better than scar5- , but still, it is kinda even more lame if we let young Dr. Bloxam start to spam the name mFUE around because it is NOT FUE! plain and simple.

1) yes..we love hair and we hate going bald, and we hate being b&llshitted to, too! 2) No you can't. I can't tell either. None of us knows. 3) What...there is no such thing. It is a piece of sleazy marketing. FUE stands for Follicular Unit Extraction. That's right!! This is not follicular unit extraction. 4) We are in no position to judge.

Couple of things... This is not FUE. Please do NOT call it FUE. It has nothing to do with FUE. Putting a "m" in front of it makes no difference. It is not follicular unit extraction. All it does is make us think it is a dodgy piece of marketing to cash in on the FUE name, similar, if not worse than who ever started to call strip FUT when in fact all FUE Is FUT. Secondly, I'm sure it will be better than strip but never forget that it might also be a tacit admission that these guys can't be bothered with FUE at all anymore. (That is real FUE I refer to) I can't blame them, because they are forced by law in New York and elsewhere in North America to extract all the follicles personally. Technicians are not allowed to. Dr Lindsay's analysis adds nothing new, except that he reveals a fundamental ignorance of the plight of many hairless sufferers. Remember, for many of us, our strip scar is only as good as how thick our crowns are. As for frontal scarring - it is often completely different than back scarring. I can shave my frontal strip scar on the right side to zero and it is almost impossible to see. The back is a different story. Fibrotic scarring? Let's have look at that mammoth thread about FUT being cheaper, and we see that when really hunted down, these guys can't prove it is the problem in FUE a they allude to. In summary, nothing new,better than strip, notin any shape or form FUE and I recommend you immediately desist from using the FUE name..you are tainting it and it is blatantly false advertising.

The best thing about FUE is that smoke will filter through all the extraction holes...like a colander, similar the broccoli steaming on your cooker. If you smoke, the best thing you can do is drink steadily. Alcohol opens up those capilieries that the smoke shrinks. The best solution is to drink smokey whiskey - that teat kinda thing. As you sip, console yourself that you didn't do strip - the wound is deeper and more horrible.

All things being equal, you would think practice improves outcomes. In the sense of the industry we have two outcomes. 1) The outcome for the surgeon/clinic/rep/employees 2) the outcome for the patient This is why we have to consider the situation very carefully when we are getting advice and weighing up the differences of opinion - especially when comparing advice pertaining to FUE from clinics that cannot employ technicians to extract as opposed to those that can allow. As I have said before, -40 minutes of the doc's time to extract 3000 - 4000 follicles via strip ("FUT") -15-20 hours of the docs time to do the same via FUE - IF HE/SHE IS COMPELLED BY LAW TO DO ALL THE EXTRACTIONS PERSONALLY - SUCH AS IN NEW YORK! That is why we have the incentive to keep pushing strip in North America. In reality strip should be far, far cheaper, and FUE should be far far more expensive in the US, but this law - (about tech extraction) distorts the whole market. THe Turkish guys can keep pressure on US FUE guys and the US strip guys have to do a little part-time FUE to keep their credentials alive. Docs find ways to get better, but they also find ways to get more sensible ..i.e. economical and legally responsible. It amazes me why you lot don't discuss this

Yes, but spending two days to extract 3000 grafts (FUE) vs 40 minutes (strip) is certainly not a mute point.

There is no stalemate when dollars are rolling. Let's say, for arguments sake, that FUE is not a strain for a doctor and that cutting a strip out is actually far more stressful on the limbs, eyes, the back, the mind (concentration). Now 40 minutes of a strip versus two days of mild inconvenience. That equates to the corresponding time doctor needs to to spend to pull 3000 grafts. (And that is generous) Even if FUE was as blissful as a massage chair, doing in non-stop for two to three days is not gonna give the doctor a whole lotta time to do much else. Day in day out >>> year in year out. So even if FUE is not a strain, just the time spent and lost in opportunity cost makes FUE a dreadful proposition for a doctor/clinic working in a jurisdiction where techs can't extract, unless of course it is appropriated and confined to the odd 'small job'. In fact, as a business model, it probably pays to do just that because clients are far more likely to trust a doctor that does both in the consulting room.

Indeed. This is another great point this thread. Perhaps, it is just me, but I am getting the feeling that the people who just drop by this community, on the outer fringes, can start to get this now. So important. KO asking us to switch focus to the recipient supports my intuition. Blake telling us that Dr. Feller has 'woken up' to the shortcomings of FUE resonates with it much more. I suspect, Dr. Feller has 'woken up' to what a pain in the ass FUE is when he has to do it all by himself.

Pathos? Logos? Ethos? I also think it is a good thread. Don't care if the original OP went AWOL. We learn't (learned) ; 1) New York state doesn't permit tech extraction, making FUE extremely costly in New york 2) FUE fibrotic scarring is a phoney excuse for the strip rationale That's a good start.

Nothing to do with medicine or the spectrum of possibilities within. Everything to do with the relative comparative advantage of strip vs doctor extracted FUE for a clinic set up in a jurisdiction like New York. So we have 40 minutes to pull out a strip vs two long days to pull out the equivalent number of grafts with FUE done manually, which you are compelled, by law, to do in the state of New York. (Again check with Dr. Feller) It isn't much of a contest is it? Guys, I don't bitch on strip for nothing and I don't think FUE is all that great either. Just giving yourself the option to retreat is not only the concern of a guys who want to do an undercut at 24. It is the concern of every balding man .

1) I am in no position to question the ethics or expertise of physicians- but there would be no forum if physicians were not salesman - you guys pay the fees! And BTW, I'd appreciate if you send me some cash for my typing class. (I make typos as you can see) I once was so naive, (and if you think I am stupid now, well, then, try to imagine me then!) Doc was a big new FUE kid on the block. I asked him to count and tally my transections. He gave me a neat table at the end of the procedure showing columns of groupings and their transection rates. Never exceeded 5%) Later, I was visiting another leading FUE doc and he said my yield was about 50%! IMO, both were wrong, but there 'aint no such thing as objectivity, lack of commercial pressure - it is not a vacuum. It is a market and now with the internet, the stakes are higher than ever. 2) I have spoken to so many doctors and their staff over the years. Explaining the facts? As I've tried to explain the facts are elastic and they stretch over continents. If techs could extract legally, competition would ensure FUE drops. It makes no difference that you are sincere or conscientious or that you have put a great amount of effort into this forum. (Of course we value it) But the 'fact' remains, anyone knows now - it takes a doc 40 minutes to pull a strip with the number of grafts that would require 2 long days with FUE...which brings me to your next point. 3) Fatigue? No problem? Please give us a break Blake! Nobody believes this. Or ask Dr. Feller about that. He was always forthright about it. But I don't even need his confirmation, I have consulted doctors who have; 1) Stopped FUE altogether 2) Had RSI injuries 3) Have significantly changed their FUE motion from twisting to a plunging action. FUE is incredibly taxing, and you should be given a stern warning by us for trying to tell us it isn't. If FUE isn't taxing it is because you are not doing it often enough or haven't done it for long. FUE is a pain in the ass for doctors and all doctors know it - hence, the high price and the strip recommendations. Again, nothing to do with your sincerity or conscientiousness.

1) & 2) Isn't it strange how 'objective advice" varies according to geography (i.e. legal concerns, economic realities) in different regions of the world as well as in time. (last 10 years) and yet it is presented as objective fact carved in the rock of truth. 3) & 4) What a guy wants varies through each decade of his life. Be careful with what you wish for. Blake telling us you how much you 'love FUE' - aren't you being a little subjective? Let's think about this. Now being objective, how much for an hour of your precious time, crouched in an awkward position doing manual extraction on a head? Now make that the first hour. How about the second hour? ...and now the third? going straight through for the tenth? Imagine planning your entire week around that kinda thing? Your month? Your year? Your career? You have no choice in New York - that is if you wanna do what you love -FUE, because techs cannot extract legally. Now, wouldn't it be wise to keep strip a relevant procedure in 2015, and fight the fight with all you've got?