I had a HT with Dr. Armani

[NewHairNow]

Originally posted by wantego:

Pats205,

After reading this thread I saw some first time posters defending Dr Armani had registered yesterday and come directly in to posting in to this thread. Was that more than coincidental? Have you ever spoken to those posters off this board?

 

He probably went to seek some help from his buddies mmaguy, mj2003, jtelecom, gac...the usual suspects...

[Bill - Seemiller]

sadly even on the best of online hairloss forums the truth sometimes finds its way LOCKED OR MISSING in my experience.. and often those who try to speak it are labled negative, or agenda driven. when really they are doing nothing now than striking nerves..

 

Swagger,

 

I feel I need to address this comment so there is no confusion.

 

All members are welcome to share their genuine experiences and post legitimate questions and concerns. And as we've experienced on this thread, it's frustrating when a clinic continues to dodge legitimate questions. The anger that members are experiencing in this case is due to Pats205 failing and/or refusing to address legitimate concerns and questions posed by this community.

 

However, there is a huge difference between this and agendas to unfairly malign.

 

Whereas posters can usually hide behind anonymous aliases, physicians and clinics cannot and it's their reputation on the line.

 

This is why there may be cases where we choose to investigate and sometimes will require patients to substantiate who they are. In some cases, we may require patients give the doctor the necessary permission to discuss their case.

 

This may seem unfair to you as a patient, but imagine if the tables were reversed, and it was your name out there. I trust you'd want us to provide a fair playground so you can share your side of the story.

 

HIPAA laws prevent doctors from sharing confidential information about a patient publicly, and most times, a poster's anonyminity prevents the doctor from knowing who the patient is at all. Therefore, there are times (which we take on a case by case basis), where we may require a patient to provide the necessary information to the doctor in order to discuss their case. These guidelines have been in place forever - but we've recently documented how we handle these situations publicly so all members understand. For more information, read "Maintaining a Safe and Fair Environment on our Forum for Patients and Physicians".

 

The bottom line is, providing a level playing field is the right thing to do, whether the surgeon is recommended here or not. Just as we hold physicians accountable for their actions, so must posters be held accountable for theirs.

 

The "free" speech we enjoy does not include libel or malicious intent to defame anyone, whether patient or surgeon.

 

Therefore, your concern should not be whether or not the occasional thread is locked or removed (which is quite rare on this forum I must add), but whether or not we've handled a situation fairly considering both the patient and physician's rights.

 

Bill

[Balboa]

I would like to hear Pats205 answer legitimate questions regarding the contract and Dr Armani but I feel the name calling and insults go over the line and will not help us get to the truth.

 

LIKEWISE

[Franklin]

 

The bottom line is, providing a level playing field is the right thing to do, whether the surgeon is recommended here or not

. Should be standard on all sites one would hope. Good post!

[NewHairNow]

Originally posted by M&M:

Originally posted by Pats205:

Originally posted by Balboa:

i cannot see anything witch is so DRAMATIC about the contract yes PATS205 is someone who has been given a free HT for basicly WORKING for Armani other people work for Armani get cash what diffrence does it make i have read through the contract and there isnt anything that bad or shocking about it realy businesses have to target all avenues to get customers and asking someone to post there HT results for a free HT isnt shady in anyways i dont see what all the fuss is about

 

Agreed, I asked for proof to validate the claims that we PAY POSTERS to come in and post on forums. All that is presented is a blank version of my independent contract again and again. I'm sorry but that is not enough to substantiate the claims being made.

 

Pats,

 

If what Pat the Publisher showed is in fact your contract, then I'd love to see you "bi-weekly (every 2 weeks) progress pictures up to 15 months" per '2b' of the contract.

 

Pats205:

Also per clause 8 on page 3 of the contract, you agree to not post any negative remarks about Dr. Armani. Is it the reason why you don't post the updates of the FUE procedure? Is it because you had low growth?

[Balboa]

im not sure if the contract actualy means that he canot post his pics if there bad i think ware it says not to posyt any negative remarks meens delibratly slagging them off but thats just M.O.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Take a guess whos lived in this beautiful house last year

What a life I envy this guy now

What the hell am I doing posting when I should be out drilling

 

http://losangeles.craigslist.o.../apa/1073592299.html

[Mountinvan]

I would sure like to see Pat's pics. It would be informative to see his progress. The lack of pics raises questions--put the issue to rest Pat--did you get a good result?

[Mike Haddad]

some guys here implied that some new poster came intentionally here to deffend Aramani. i hope it was not me you were referring to.

I spend hour reading posts about hair transplant because that is the biggest decision I am making for 2009. I might not go with Aramni afterall... all what I said is that I've seen a couple of good Armani results.

I always READ hair forums, but i decided to join and got specifically ino that thread because I am considering Armani for my HT and i felt like i have to be involved.

I remember i came across another forum last year, where also some people were saying bad stuff about Armani clinic, this did not get to me as I only believe what I see, and that is why i'm still opting for that clinic, especially after seeing good results with my eyes.

[Mike Haddad]

from what I understood about the Armani contract you are talking about: if it is a kind of a guarantee contract for armani patients to offer them a free touch up procedure if they document their case. I don't see anything wrong in that, if this is the case and I would't mind signing such a contract if i get a HT with Armani with with any other clinic, at least I know that the clinic will follow up my progress and assistme to better document my case for other potential patients & in case the results do not yield a hight growth rate, they will give me a free touch up.... BIG DEAL...come on guys

[hopefull]

Originally posted by Mike Haddad:

from what I understood about the Armani contract you are talking about: if it is a kind of a guarantee contract for armani patients to offer them a free touch up procedure if they document their case. I don't see anything wrong in that, if this is the case and I would't mind signing such a contract if i get a HT with Armani with with any other clinic, at least I know that the clinic will follow up my progress and assistme to better document my case for other potential patients & in case the results do not yield a hight growth rate, they will give me a free touch up.... BIG DEAL...come on guys

 

what do you mean?Dont you think that these people should state that they document their case for a benefit?shouldnt they state that they work for the clinic?If they are not happy with their peocedure how can they be truthfull when the contract states that they cannot say something negative?

 

I am all about good intentions with you despite that you just came on this site and your only posts are on this thread but how you dont see that this is wrong?

 

On the other hand i am almost certain that most clinics do that

[NewHairNow]

Originally posted by hopefull:

On the other hand i am almost certain that most clinics do that

 

I am sure most clinics offer discount/free grafts to patients for allowing the pictures be taken and published, as well as publishing progression through a web log. There is nothing wrong with that since they don't require patients to omit publishing negative results. They don't require patients to sign something ridiculous like this Armani's contract either.

 

Dr.Armani, on the other hand, forbids patients from disclosing/commenting if their result is bad. That is unethical. Perhaps Dr. Aramni is not sufficiently confident in his competence that he includes this clause in the contract.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

We do not tolerate any clinic, recommended or not, encouraging their patients to cheer lead for them in exchange for compensation. That is why the very first paragraph of our forum's terms of service that every member of this forum agrees to in joining this forum states -

 

"All posters promoting or advocating a particular physician, procedure or treatment on this forum are required to divulge any compensation, monetary or otherwise, that they may be receiving in their posting signature. No links or references to websites or resources of a promotional nature are permitted on this educational forum."

 

I believe that the vast majority of clinics do not engage in covert marketing on the forums. Those who have found themselves removed. Members of this community have also be hyper vigilant about detecting such covert marketing and have helped us detect, call out and correct such behavior.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Mike ,

There is way more to this then you think but with all the info out there now the sinister side of me says go on go there, but the angelic side of me says the opposite.

No matter what you choose we will still be here for you.

Just dont sign any contract that can silence you.

Remember they say a touchup is 100-200 grafts but Ive seen quite the opposite in what they label "touchup"

Maybe they have got better but they remind me of an old NBA player Tim Hardaway that mastered the crossover.

 

 

 

For all my NBA fans out there check out this years best crossover by my boy D Rose

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXciKh0Dj4g

[hopefull]

Originally posted by NewHairNow:

Originally posted by hopefull:

On the other hand i am almost certain that most clinics do that

 

I am sure most clinics offer discount/free grafts to patients for allowing the pictures be taken and published, as well as publishing progression through a web log. There is nothing wrong with that since they don't require patients to omit publishing negative results. They don't require patients to sign something ridiculous like this Armani's contract either.

 

Dr.Armani, on the other hand, forbids patients from disclosing/commenting if their result is bad. That is unethical. Perhaps Dr. Aramni is not sufficiently confident in his competence that he includes this clause in the contract.

 

you got me there though it says in the contract that these patients are like consultants and have to wear suits when they meet patients and have Armani e-mails, i ve seen some on hairsite who have Armani e-mail and are available to meet, propably the fact that they have a sales role is undermentioned lol...Still though i dont think its right to do any form of pushing for your doctor with the hope of getting grafts or i dont know what.Its almost pathetic when customers behave like cheerleaders...i remember in the old times patients of doctors where like in war with other doctors patients.

 

Man this whole thing is to laugh and cry at the same time, sometimes i am wondering why i am still here in forums and comment on this stuff, its just so ridiculous and its not only Armani i ve seen other doctors patients cheerleading, they just dont have so much heat as armani and they are more discreet.

 

I am bored and i actually thing they play as for a fool, in certain countries in europe its forbidden to show before and after pictures and here it seems like the standard sales tool...this whole hair restoration thing should finally see some real science with a well respected company offering HM or something. I dont know which doctor is good or bad and i honestly dont care anymore...the best thing someone can do is wait for something better to come along and thats my personal opinion.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Oh where Oh where has my little Pats gone Oh where oh where can he be.

 

Did we scare you off with the truth.

Heres a sappy video to go with you departure.

Listen closely and get out the tissue

Dr Armani this is a message to you.

The biggest mistake you ever made was to hire Bozo and Cookie aka Shane and Eric.

People hate them with a passion and they represent you so the blame goes on them ,not us.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgmJ1miBzek

[NewHairNow]

Originally posted by Pat - Publisher of this Community:

We do not tolerate any clinic, recommended or not, encouraging their patients to cheer lead for them in exchange for compensation. That is why the very first paragraph of our forum's terms of service that every member of this forum agrees to in joining this forum states -

 

"All posters promoting or advocating a particular physician, procedure or treatment on this forum are required to divulge any compensation, monetary or otherwise, that they may be receiving in their posting signature. No links or references to websites or resources of a promotional nature are permitted on this educational forum."

 

I believe that the vast majority of clinics do not engage in covert marketing on the forums. Those who have found themselves removed. Members of this community have also be hyper vigilant about detecting such covert marketing and have helped us detect, call out and correct such behavior.

 

Pat:

 

I think there is a difference between being encouraged to cheerlead a doctor versus being encouraged to publish one's HT progression, which can be negative or positive.

 

There is also a difference between getting 100 free grafts because the doctor over harvested, or get a discount of $500 on a procedure costing over $10,000, compared to Pats205's situation (or Shane) who, not only is being asked to represent the Armani clinic with a suit and meet with prospects and who no doubt gets much much more than $500 to do his job.

 

Everything is relative.

[lost my swagger]

"Man this whole thing is to laugh and cry at the same time, sometimes i am wondering why i am still here in forums and comment on this stuff, its just so ridiculous and its not only Armani i ve seen other doctors patients cheerleading, they just dont have so much heat as armani and they are more discreet."

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

hopefull---- i very much agree....over on another forum RIGHT NOW, a couple UMAR pushers 'atticus' and 'sofarsogood' are doing the SAME things that MMAGUY, Jtelecom, used to do for Armani.... they are pathetic tools who pretend they are genuine.. ONLY the newest newbies dont know what they really are... notice how ALL of them support farrels methods.. lol.. of course you support him Atticus, he allows you to PUSH YOUR OBVIOUS agenda over there you sleeze ball....

 

sorry to get off track, my point is i agree, many clinics, do things VERY VERY similar to the sick things Armani does and the sick tactics Pats205 uses... but Armani gets the bulk of the heat online it seems..... its bothersome to me but i guess one is better than none.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I also agree with LMS about Umar .

I was thinking the EXACT same thing myself.

Im know alot of us are happy with our clinic and we try to repay them back by saying nice things but when people lie and deceive and try and get others to post is when trouble occurs.

I have NO problem with any clinics cheerleaders as long as that clinic is doing INCREDIBLE work

on a CONSISTENT basis and the cheerleaders are honest

Im talking about years of consistency not months

 

There will be no crying for me because with the years of research I did there are only a small handful of docs that I would ever let touch me .

You would be surprised whos in my top 3 .

I go by results and results only and even since Ive blown almost every clinics pics up on a huge hd monitor my opinion hasnt changed one bit

I pay no attention to the mumble jumbo from some of these guys.

[Mr. GQ]

PGP i agree 200%.

that's why lms been saying it for years "it's a sleazy business" and i agree with that 100%.

these pictures too, that some clinics post are dodgy as well. pre-op i'll expose the bold spots but my post-op will be strategicly covered with some lame combover. at least Umar is starting to show videos where he runs the comb through the hair. so slick/stratigic pics and paid posters are todays biggest "deception tools" from HT doctors and there is no mistake about it. like Jotronic said that this industry is all about post-op pics which is true but it's all about who is willing to pay for an army of guys that will cheerlead the clinic. that's overtaking dodgy pics scheme as #1 enemy right now imo. so that's why it's sooooooo important for the new guys to do reasearch for many months up to a year before you pick the right doctor. and even then you never know how you transplant will turn out to be (hopefull knows that best ). if it doesn't turn out to be like that guy from the picture that you sow few months ago with the same amount of grafts and same hairloss pattern as yours, i'm sure any doc would have a perfectly good explanation why your yield is less then you have hoped for. they got dozen of cards up their sleeves when it comes to that. so a highly reputable doctor with years of consistent results is a must pick. and then when the push comes to shove all you will need is a small touchup to make you feel 100% good. that is also why it is important that you doc does FUE as well. so you had a strip and now need a free touch-up do you really want to cut your head again for 500 grafts???

[thanatopsis_awry]

Atticus and SoFarSoDonkey are total sleaze...worse than any of Armani's minions, IMO...I don't have much of an opinion on Umar aside from equal parts suspicion and intrigue, but clowns like those two don't speak well for he and his practice *at all*....

 

But ya, I agree -- in part, because Armani made himself Public Enemy #1 it has shielded other practices (e.g. Umar) to a degree.

[M&M]

Originally posted by Mike Haddad:

from what I understood about the Armani contract you are talking about: if it is a kind of a guarantee contract for armani patients to offer them a free touch up procedure if they document their case. I don't see anything wrong in that, if this is the case and I would't mind signing such a contract if i get a HT with Armani with with any other clinic, at least I know that the clinic will follow up my progress and assistme to better document my case for other potential patients & in case the results do not yield a hight growth rate, they will give me a free touch up.... BIG DEAL...come on guys

 

Mike,

 

If this is a contract that a patient is required to sign in order to qualify for free touch-ups, then it just goes to show how shady the operation is with Armani. What you may not realize is that any reputable clinic will stand behind their work 100% offering free touch-ups as required *without* signing any documentation, having a $3 Million clause or the inability to actually speak your mind - good or bad. This is wrong on so many levels...

 

M&M

[Balboa]

Mike,

 

Originally posted by M&M

 

If this is a contract that a patient is required to sign in order to qualify for free touch-ups, then it just goes to show how shady the operation is with Armani. What you may not realize is that any reputable clinic will stand behind their work 100% offering free touch-ups as required *without* signing any documentation, having a $3 Million clause or the inability to actually speak your mind - good or bad. This is wrong on so many levels...

 

M&M

 

 

thats not the case the contract i signed did not state i would be fined 3M if i said anything bad but i dont know if i would not get my free touch ups if i didnt sign, the contract that was uploaded is a diffrent contract to what the paying customers get, the contract that was uploaded was the Free GRAFTS for POSTING contract witch is ware the person gets a free HT for saying good things about the clinic

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Balboa ,

The contract you signed is the normal contract we all sign. Ive seen both.

The other contract is for guys that already paid for one surgery and were constantly posting online on HLP.

They were offered a free fue session if they honored everything in the contract.

If your not happy with your results Im sure after you pay for your flight and hotel they will drill some more for you for free.

Not sure if they will but they say they will.

Wasted donor should be a crime but hopefully youll be alright .

Ive seen handful of nice results from them.

Who really knows what it took to attain those few nice results but they did

[Reverse the Curse]

"Man this whole thing is to laugh and cry at the same time, sometimes i am wondering why i am still here in forums and comment on this stuff, its just so ridiculous and its not only Armani i ve seen other doctors patients cheerleading, they just dont have so much heat as armani and they are more discreet."[/quote

 

boy did i take the wrong week to get away from the forums. i've been feeling like the above statement & needed to break away. my bad, all those questions i could have not answered by pats had i been here. good to see the other minute men (pgp, lms, hopeful, Bill & pat w/o an s) were there to fire away. put me down for sometime in july for the "pats returns pool".

 

pat

i must come to pats defense on his pats205 name. he has had it for years for his beloved patriots. somehow his life has never been the same since the ny giants & the mystery FUE in 2008. i think shane became a dodgers (yes pun intended) fan but alas has no hometeam now that the clinic doesn't answer their LA office.

rtc