thanatopsis_awry

The 5 year kiss of death. A classic! Truthfully, I might be more hopeful if someone just said, "ya, 7 to 10".

Right. Assuming perfect efficacy, it would be the wonder drug panacea for anyone just beginning to go bald. Truthfully, in itself, this is huge: it would spare so many young people so much heartache and suffering. Tough to put a price on just how great that would be. Likewise, for everyone else, it would operate like finasteride on steroids. And save people from going to more advanced stages of baldness; and more profoundly, allow HT physicians to truly max out a very high % of people, and be maximally aggressive. Even NW5s, and some 6s, would be served a great benefit, simply by making sure the ever-important laterals stay in-tact.

It was FDA "approved" to be safe; nothing to do with its efficacy or proving of claims I don't believe. Also, so many people have been scammed out of big money and wasted precious time (and emotional energy) into various LLLT treatments. The vast majority of Dr's who I have seen sell and promote LLLT hair therapy for regrowth and such are not good guys. Plain and simple. This is because they oversell a product and associate wild claims and wild success possibilities, while taking wild amounts of money from suffering people. I can't speak for Dr. Charles, but I doubt he oversells LLLT like so many do. Dr. Feller worked with Platelet Rich Plasma for a bit -- does that make him a "bad guy"? No. He didn't oversell anything, he was honest with patients, and he conducted it as an openly experimental procedure, that, while safe, was far from a sure thing in "guranteeing" regrowth or much of anything. He was working towards finding out, safely and honestly and scientifically, whether a new procedure could truthfully become a new weapon for MPB sufferers to use. In that vein, I think it is likely Dr. Charles -- whose particular position on LLLT I don't know -- does not oversell LLLT and delude suffering people into using the treatment with unrealistic expectations and a huge sales pitch. The same way there are wild claims that have been proven quite false with some new, pseudo-revolutionary hair multiplication/regrowth options -- and have been oversold -- yet still have some legitimate, honestly evaluated use and benefit to HT goers, such as the way the recovery of the scar can be healed or accelerated.

Nice. And awesome thread. To add, both Curb Larry and Costanza Larry are exaggerations of Real Larry; Curb Larry being a more hyperbolic version of Real Larry, and Costanza Larry being hyperbolic to the point of caricature and sheer insanity. Costanza Larry was like creative napalm -- an extension of Real Larry's various thoughts and whims of personality that could be stretched far and away; and which reached to points of virtual insanity. Curb Larry is more of a creatively enriched extension of Real Larry's real life, and interactions with real life (vs Costanza Larry, which was more inwards, reflecting Real Larry's thoughts and creative whims, and naturally prone and possible to be taken to exceedingly zany heights). Curb Larry actually dealt with bona fida "discrimination", and affronts to the bald community. I don't doubt that several of these scenes reflect what Real Larry really feels, and what he has really dealt with. One episode, where he is berated and insulted -- with the highlight being his baldness; and at the same time, deals with cops, one with hair and one with a intentionally shaved head, who are oblivious to his feelings over being insulted for his baldness, and show an utter lack of empathy/understanding to his situation. No doubt, I don't believe Real Larry actually whimpers and cowers in fear over the "discrimination". But no doubt, I think Real Larry is exercising his real demons and tribulations of living with baldness through the creativity in his work. It's also absolutely true that there is something to say with Costanza Larry -- a paradigm of false paranoia, and self-destruction -- who so often complains about being bald. It could be truthfully inferred that this is a statement to the: in real life, nobody cares about your hair nearly as much as you do. Costanza Larry (imo) is likely a hypothetical exaggeration of what Real Larry could have seen himself becoming, and being -- if he succumbed to the extremes of his feelings, and submitted to the honestly harsh realities of being bald. Submission being the key. As much as Curb Larry gripes and toils about being bald, he has never submitted to it -- like Costanza Larry has. Certainly, Curb Larry -- a more accurate assimile to Real Larry -- recognizes those very harsh realities of being bald....indeed, the situations of baldness in Curb most accurately reflect the real thoughts and things bald people experience....And yet, Curb Larry transcends those realities, and lives an altogether more successful, happy, and envious life than Costanza Larry. Real Larry avoided becoming Costanza Larry by shifting the very realities of baldness onto a plane which he had control over (creativity and humor, which everyone has at their disposal, whether they get paid millions of dollars for it or not); and walked that fine line between tragedy and comedy, real and not real, that he ultimately expressed through Curb Larry.

I had my 1yr old bulldog stay with my family for one week, and friends for another two nights. After that, I was just careful. The real danger, IMO, is when you're asleep; they could step on your recipient, and what not. Simple solution: Crate for the night (and most dogs are crate trained already, if they don't already sleep in a crate) Or if you know how you your dog sleep, I wouldn't worry (eg, when my beast goes to sleep, she's not suddenly waking up any time soon to start galloping around ) I guess cats are a different story; though maybe a simpler ultimate solution: just put in any spare room, with their litter and water.

You'll be fine If your mop can support being caked in Toppik, it can survive some dog hairs Just keep up with general care -- shower every night, as you'd do to wash out the Toppik. Can always check with your doc, of course; but if you're HT is at risk 11weeks out because of some dog hair shedding in the house you'll be staying at, I think it's safe to say any successful HT would require us to stay hibernated like a bear inside a sanitized white room 24/7.

^ exactly. Stress can cause hair loss. But not all hair loss is created equal, and stress isn't likely to be contributing to the type of hair loss you're concerned with. MPB -- hairloss that's tethered to your genetic inclinations toward the balding you'll experience, barring meds like Propecia, Rogaine, or hair transplantation -- is really just MalePatternBaldness, and being the most stress-free person in the world ain't going to save you DHT is where it's at -- which is what meds like Propecia try to halt in its place, and thus halt your hairloss/MPB. In my experience, the most that stress can really do to you, is perhaps in extreme circumstances cause an acceleration of your MPB -- eg, already miniaturized hairs, may fall to their death a it sooner than they otherwise would.

The same could be said. Except the rate, and severity, of unpredictability is what matters most. The rate of unpredictability, and severity of when that unpredictability strikes, is virtually inconsequential with the FUT scar; in the hands of a world-class doctor, the variability is so slight, that even an outcome ranging on the poorer side of the spectrum is of little consequence to patients.....in contrast to the extraordinary and extraordinarily consistent results of the hair that's actually being transplanted. The mastery that world-class docs have achieved with FUT over the years has, in my opinion, been taken for granted -- in a certain sense. And shifted the dialogue away from the actual hair being transplanted, and onto the area of the scar -- almost to the point that people just looking into HTs, who cruise the forums for a bit, go into their research focused on what will produce the least (visible) scarring, and assume that any clinic will be offering the transformations of hair that they have seen, which is often FUT work, to boot. Anyways, cruise the forums for people being horribly, permanently scarred by FUT in the hands of ultra esteemed clinics in recent years. What do you find? Cruise the forums for cases of young men (I generalize, but it is they who have been most easily preyed upon) being horribly, permanently damaged by FUE in the hands of (*supposed*) world-class clinics. What do you find? Very important to the statement you made is that Dr's *can* tell beforehand with very high degrees of certainty, the relative "candidacy" of a patient undergoing FUE. The same can simply not be said for a FUT scar. The bottomline is that at the end of the day, hype aside, the vast majority of people care most about achieving the most hair they can, with the greatest % of liklihood that all the hair will grow. There's a very good, and very simple reason the FUT scar in this day in age is a moribund issue -- and it has nothing to do with Dr's fear-mongering or dissuading people from FUE: it's because patients know what they really want, and it's hair; and it's the type of hair transformations that FUT has made a gold-standard out of. And if they don't show a terrible fear of the FUT scar, it's because in reality, most don't fear it, and it's because they have good reason not to fear it. Ironically, many of the repair cases of today and tomorrow are, and will be, by way of FUE -- and it will be from clinics that operated under assumed "refinement" and "class". The risk of the FUT scar has not been marginalized; it has simply been made marginal by way of the world-class consistency and excellence of top surgeons who perform FUT.

Looking good, bro Those are going to be some luscious, STRONG temples....I totally know what you mean about what an ace in the hole they are; and once you start to lose them, it's like you're losing this killer follicular edge. I'm def going to be examining your 400 FUE session in detail, too. Stoked to follow your progress.

On a scale of 1 to Drool, this clearly hits the Drool mark. Once that bad boy matures to its utmost potential, you're in line for a Hollywood Mane aware, mate! An my facial reaction to that top-down shot is pretty much on point with my bulldog's face right before I feed her steak (btw, sup Spex )

Hey bro! Thx, likewise great to see you here, too! Ya, will definitely whip something up, re: update. It'd be an interesting one

I'm honestly not inclined to debate FUT vs FUE in any way here, as it's a debate that entails way more nuance and complexity than what your situation entails and is going through. Generally speaking, I love FUE; the same way I love FUT when it's performed by world-class clinics. All I'm getting at is this: I see two routes which you can take. One entails minimal uncertainty about the result, regarding growth; wouldn't have any unresolved red flags about naturalness; and which has zero mystery about what your surgery is even entailing, regarding the grafts, the types of grafts, and the subsequent impact on the result and meeting your expectations. Not to mention, an irrefutable cache of crystal clear results and long-standing history to back it up. The other route has none of this, but the benefit of never having a strip scar. I've told you my personal experience in having a strip scar *worse* than anything you'd likely end up with; if, for whatever reason, you value not having a FUT scar in any fashion, and value it far above the actual transplantation of hair, I'm not one to tell you otherwise. But taking into account all the above, and that you are pouring your ife savings into this (not to mention the incalculable cost of your emotion, time, and how you are going to look for the rest of your life).....I can't help but call it like I see it. Plus, as Aaron said (sup bro ), Hasson&Wong have performed sessions of over 8,000 grafts -- all actual scalp hair mind you, not body hair! Not that H&W would even ever recommend 8,000 grafts for you, or think you needed that many to achieve a result you want. I just see many issues here, dude....as to why you shouldn't be pouring your life (literally) into the procedure you're set for. Re: the video you showed me, it does look fantastic for that guy. It's not exactly clear lighting, or clear shots, but he obviously had a ton of hair moved onto an extremely bald scalp, and he now has really amazing coverage. Final things to take away from that video, and I'll leave things at that (at least in this thread): *that surgery was mainly body hair grafts; it doesn't appear that dense, or that natural (and I'd expect more crisp, clear documentation would show that even more). *that patient appears to have way more bald real estate to cover than you; which means needing to go for some 10,000 graft session of mostly body hair grafts is extremely puzzling, to me at least, when you could get legit density and unquestioned naturalness by way of scalp hair, in one session, by way of FUT. *Aaron touches again upon a really good point: you don't seem to have a great handle on the difference between body hair grafts vs scalp hair, especially regarding naturalness and how your HT is actually going to look when all is said and done. This too can't be understated. Finally, I can't ever overstate this: when I mentioned those two routes before, one route also has literally hundreds of crystal clear documentation to back it up, people you could see in the flesh, etc; that video you showed, while impressive in scope, doesn't bear any resemblance to what YOU yourself are going through with your MPB, nor does it's result, which I'd say to be the best you could expect in such a scenario, meet the expectations you seem to have, re: density and naturalness. Hey, maybe I'm wrong? Honestly, maybe I am. Then please just see *in person* anyone who you know 100% has been treated in a fashion similar to you by Dr. Umar (one session, 10,000 graft FUE, with about the same breakdown of BodyHair to ScalpHair that you'll be receiving). Do a consult with a world-class FUT clinic. See how many grafts they recommend. Then check out some High-Def video work and HD picture work for FUT that mirrors what the world-class FUT clinic recommended. If the patient who received the BHT/FUE looks as good as the latter, you're choice is easy, and you'll be making a great one and did your due diligence in making such a huge, life-altering decision. best luck, dude.

Hey, thx! Just a combination of a lot of changes occurring, and being super busy, all happening in a short period of time (new job, moved to a new state, girlfriend, etc). It's always wondered "what happens to forum members"; for me at least, it was just the above, combined with having been so passionate and involved, it wasn't easy to just go right back to posting here and there.

Hey Ryan, You're obviously a smart dude, and want the best for yourself. I don't want to make it seem like I'm trying to sell you on anything; it's like I said at the end of my first post, the particular clinic or Dr you choose I have *zero* concern with. Everything I'm saying is based just off important things you have said, over the backdrop of what I know to be factual based off of what I have seen and experienced about hair transplants, results, and expectations being met. :eek: Oh man. Dr. Umar said he will be getting 6000 to 9000 FUE grafts from your scalp in this "session"? That claim/diagnosis aside...even if Dr Umar could do so, did he say that he is sure you as a patient -- with your physiology and donor area -- could legitimately extract that many grafts in a session*? (*, by session, in theory, that would have to mean being in the surgical chair for a good part of the week, I'd assume). If it's true that you would be receiving 8000 to 10,000 FUE grafts in a single session", that would be the first time I have ever seen such a surgery performed; let alone successfully. Back to my core point: I'm not a genius, so maybe such a thing occurs often and can be proven to work and be consistent. Did Dr. Umar show you clear, precise documentation of FUE cases in the 8000 to 10,000 range, including 6,000 to 9,000 of those grafts being from the scalp? I'm not trying to get you in a "gotcha" moment at all, as you know. These are just all really important questions, and it's really important (and kind of worrisome) that you don't seem to have been given as firm a grip on the situation as you should have. I hear ya. If Dr Umar showed you a dozen or so results of clear documentation -- and you liked the results -- of patients receiving 8,000 to 10,000 FUE grafts from a single session of work, including 6,000 to 9,000 from the scalp......I'm not going to dispute it in any way. If this happened, terrific. If it didn't, it'd be another major red flag. I know what a pain in the ass fighting MPB is, and then considering a HT, and then pulling the trigger, so having to then answer and find out these types of questions isn't exactly an enjoyable thing. I don't know if 4000 grafts performed by anybody would be nearly as good as 8,000 to 10,000 grafts, mostly from the scalp, that actually grow. It's just quite a claim for a Dr to say you will be getting 8,000 to 10,000 grafts in a FUE session, and end up with 50cm2 density to a NW0-1 pattern. Which is why I asked before just to clarify if that's what Dr. Umar legit said. *And* if he said he really think she could get that performed on you (eg, not everyone's scalp is the same, let alone their donor, so even performing an FUE procedure of half that size would be out of the question for many people). *SO*, the most important follow-up I'd again say is: if you saw plenty of clear documentation showing FUE cases of 8,000 to 10,0000 grafts, mostly scalp hair, that restored density to someone of 50cm2....That would be a major breakthrough. I've just never seen such a case. :confused: But if you have, and the prior questions have annswers that matchup....I'm in no position to disagree. You're hanging tough, Ryan! Thx for answering my questions before!

I agree w/ all the above. One thing I can add, that I think could give you the most profound, immediate boost in your happiness and follicular survival: concealers. Check out Nanogen and Dermmatch. IMHO, one day of practicing a bit with one or both of those with a mirror, and your look will be 100% set, just requiring a minute a day of your time. FWIW, a lot of times when someone very young gets smacked by MPB, it's actually quite aggressive, and not uncommon to have loss a lot worse than yours, even at 20-21. If you get on Propecia, ASAP, I think you're going to be alright :cool: Re: finasteride/Propecia, the side effects are most often psychosomatic. I don't want to say don't look into getting on a med, but I would advise against scouring the internet looking for feedback on it. The side effects are extremely rare, and reversible even if they happen. Since the side effects do revolve around sex, and sexual dysfunction and performance is so entrenched in confidence (aka the human psyche and emotion), you don't want to start messing with your head. That personally happened to me -- I overreacted, and blamed a one-time psychosomatic response to getting hyped up about Propecia side effects -- and I ultimately lost what will probably cost me about 1000 to 1500 grafts from my donor in the ground I lost by going off the fin.

My first post in ages, Ryan! Took me about twelve password attempts till I remembered the right one, A few questions, my man, and one statement, which you really need to hear. *What is the breakdown of the 10,000 grafts Umar is shooting for? How many of these grafts are to be body hair, vs actual scalp hair? *Do you believe you will be achieving a "NW0-1" look at the end of this procedure? Did Umar say you would be achieving a NW0-1 result, or affirm this after hearing you say this is what you believe you will be ending up with? Now, for the important statement which I'm going to base on but few simple facts -- off what you said you want, and what has the greatest liklihood of getting you what you want. *You are something of a NW3 to NW4, as affirmed by Umar and various other doctors. This is an extremely important consideration. *A natural result is critical to you. *Density is extremely important to you (I base this off your remarks about being a NW0-1, and that you have worn a system for a while, and are accustomed to a certain level of density). Bro, if you get a hair transplant, it should be FUT, it should be a mega-session, and it should be with a clinic where you know you have the absolute greatest certainty of achieving both "naturalness" and "density". You're a young dude, a virgin scalp; your hair is obviously extremely important to you. It's extremely important you take as few chances as possible, and remove as many variables as possible that can stand in the way of you achieving what you want. A world-class FUT procedure can get you the result you want. **And**, ifit can't, if the density and naturalness isn't what you're after: it simply means you are going to be that much more dissatisfied by going through with a BHT/FUE session of this nature on a virgin scalp. You're worried about a strip scar now; there is way too little worry over you getting the result of density and naturalness that you are after. Don't put the cart before the horse. Personally, I had a strip scar that didn't turn out terribly well; definitely on the lower end curve of what you could expect. This was because of my physiology, and probably because I started competing in boxing and grappling earlier than I "should" have. I've had girls run through my hair (donor included), I've played sports where I've been soaked wet in my scalp and had people close up to my head; not a single inquiry into my scar, ever. I told the salon I had been going to that I was looking into *another* hair transplant; the woman who cuts my hair looked at me, incredulous, and asked "you already had a hair transplant?!?". That said, let's use Hasson&Wong, since you have mentioned them frequently regarding FUT. I have no idea what graft total would be recommended to you, but if you are a NW3-4, and you want a respectable level of density, let's just say somewhere in the neighberhood of 4000. If you ask H&W to meet, or see examples of the type of procedure you'll be going in for, it would be their pleasure to show you a million *crystal clear* before/afters of patients who received appox 4000 grafts. Am I saying Dr. Umar could not replicate a result as dense and natural with what he is recommending (*which really needs to be clarified, re: your expectations, and the breakdown of the 10,000 grafts*)? Am I saying that what Dr. Umar is proposing would not achieve such a result with the *extreme* level of consistency that Hasson&Wong could, and which they can prove (through years upon years of crystal clear documentation, and meeting people)? I am saying to you that I have no idea, because I have never seen a BHT/FUE case, in the 10,000 graft range proposed, with crystal clear documentation, and that achieves such a look of density and naturalness. I have seen -- literally -- hundreds with Hasson&Wong, and hundreds more from other top clinics utilizing FUT on a case similar to yours. Trust, but verify is a good saying. Verify, then trust is also a good one :cool: I wish you the best, and no matter what you decide, factor in the questions I mentioned; and do not make a decision with any hair transplantation until you have received crystal-clear verification: on the type of results you will be seeking, based off the precise type of surgery you will be receiving the surgery you will be receiving has the highest % chance of success If your expectations match up with both those variables, simply go to whomever can provide the best documentation (proof), and the greatest history of that proof (chance of success).

This, and the actual remifications for HT patients, couldn't be overstated. It ties in to just how crucial.."adequate"..documentation can be, in giving a viewer the best apprecation for the work, and result as it is. There can be multiple realities to a HT simply because we are so often dealing with an illusion. Where on the scale of the illusion you happen to stand, and the real-world implications of this, are things that should always be taken into account. One reason why well-lit, HD pics -- not unlike these -- would ideally be a status quo in documentation. And HD vid can't be beat. Nice result. Natural and dense.

Very unfortunate result, but I hope and trust Dr. Siporin will fully stand by his patient, much like Dr. Harris recently did, e.g. The silver lining, Cole, is that you've handled this, truly, like a man, and your resiliancy is really commendable. MPB itself has the power to break a lot of us, and to go through with a HT that, for whatever reasons, ends up with such an unfortunate and unlikely end, is not an easy thing to deal with. Going forward I trust you will only improve and move closer towards your goals.

Spex, you have to be extremely direct and very simple with NotJustYet -- and even then, NJY might not be inclined to actually reply to something you've actually said (I know this all too well); but simply attempt to hit n' run you, as he tried to do to Bill, and as he is currently doing to you. When he feels like he's getting exposed he retreats and waits for a new thread. Rinse and repeat, IMHO. Unfortunate and unfair, but what can you do. Going foreward, I'm simply going to get links to the (various other) FUE/Feller/Patient threads where he's systematically been responded to, and post the URLs going forward. I don't mind writing, and I enjoy a good debate, but such things are futile until his m.o. changes.

Does your avoidance to my inquiry mean you simply don't know? I was genuinely interested in your answers, as I have little clue. This has less to do with "thin skin", than you (occasionally) being held to some degree of accountability. And you aren't being attacked. I let you handle the threats. Put away the tin foil hat; you aren't be targeted, and frankly I forget you are you quite often and respond to your posts for their content, pure and simple. You were simply asked to clarify your position on some of the things you say, since you say them so often. Do you not like the fact that people with different views and opinions than yourself have choice and the ability to choose? You not only admit (finally) that one can get quality FUE for significantly less money than $10, but that you emphatically believe the prices will drop further over the next five years. Do you just have a deep resentment towards doctors who don't price their services to your express desire? Have you not considered the notion that some people just prefer Dr. Feller + 10/g, over Dr. ___ + 5/g?

Who's "The Emperor", and what exactly does his "nakedness" represent in this usage of the phrase/metaphor? Also, what do you propose is done to get FUE's across the board pricing to your liking? TC raises an interesting question about the possibility of performing back2back days of procedures to aim for more grafts. This is a facet of FUE that seems to be different from clinic to clinic. The work looks strong as usual, and 1250 is a real healthy number of grafts for a one day procedure.

Hair + Confidence = easy success No Hair + Confidence = success Hair + No Confidence = zero success I agree w/ Maxxy though fundamentally -- there isn't one golden rule. Just have to control what you can, to the best of your ability; it's easier to do when you have hair, but this doesn't mean it isn't feasible, and it's no excuse not to devote yourself to....yourself (not be a slave to the follicle). Ultimately, hair is a big positive, just like confidence. Confidence is essentially within our entire control, however; it's a mental mechanism within each of us. Hair is essentially out of (our) control, and we are on the forums, in part, in an attempt to circumvent randomness and take a degree of control back.

The only clinic to ever perform a truly pro bono, "free" transplant in the sense that I think you mean is SMG, on poster Bullinut. He doesn't post much on this forum, but his first (free) HT has just been growing in, and he has plans for a subsequent transplant. I believe SMG fronted a majority (if not all?) of the cost, I still have a remembrance that he also made an attempt to be aided in part by donations from actual forum members. You should know that Bullinut was a repair case in dire, dire need of a world-class restoration. This is essentially the crux -- along with his charming and warm personality -- that effectively got him the freebies. Aside from unusual repair cases and minor sessions on people who already have a very established history with a clinic, I'm not sure the "free" HT you desire is desireable, let alone feasible. Though, you might want to consider doctors who use people as "examples" at conventions such as the ISHRS.

lmao. A "high risk..aggressive surgical team"? Doing "precision oriented extraction?" They have "some causalities"? Anyways, your post is a non-sequitur, it's merits (or lack thereof) aside. It has nothing to do with what Mp96 stated; other than an attempt to obfuscate what Mp96 said, which is that the pics don't say all that much in regard to judging the yield of 6500 grafts. Let's be frank -- yield could have occurred that would make any of us grimace and it would still be consistent with the photos. Burberry's exact yield doesn't matter much though since he's happy, and he's clearly improved and made progress, and not just in the hair department.

Dr. Feller by Dr. Seager Dr. Alexander by Dr. Feller I'm curious of others. I seem to recall a thread mentioning Dr. Feller thinking of a 2nd HT to be done by Dr. Lindsay, but it's a mild recollection.