Verteporfin HAIR REGENERATION HUMAN TRIAL Dr. Barghouthi *OFFICIAL THREAD

[CureSeeker]

41 minutes ago, hairmonk said:

It's not misleading, we just disagree. I don't think your small wound model aligns well with how verteporfin seems to work in the animal or in vitro mechanism studies.

Verteporfin suppresses the signalling caused by tension in large wounds, reducing scar tissue formation and leading to healthy tissue regeneration instead.

So without creating the large wounds that causes this tension in the first place, what's verteporfin supposed to be doing that regenerates tissue in a way that already can't happen with microneedling alone?

Can you cite the studies you're referring to here? This one seems to suggest the opposite, titled "Antimicrobial hydrogel microneedle loading verteporfin promotes skin regeneration by blocking mechanotransduction signaling" and its abstract states:

Quote

The study shows that inhibition of YAP signaling encouraged scar-free wound healing without fibrosis and with the regeneration of secondary skin elements (hair follicles, sebaceous glands). Therefore, MN can serve as an excellent drug delivery system and will have numerous practical benefits in scar-free wound regeneration.

 

Edited April 5 by CureSeeker

[Hair Tomorrow]

When will this group chat be taking place, thanks - and will it be broadcast?

[Hair Tomorrow]

9 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I have a group chat with @DrTBarghouthi Dr. Bisanga and Dr. Ted Miln. I hope they all work together to build a great protocol.

When will this group chat be taking place, thanks - and will it be broadcast?

[Dragonsphere]

If people are so infatuated with Microneedling, I would advise them to conduct these experiment themselves. Miniaturised follicles are only around 0.7mm deep which is shallower than the average dermarolling session. If it turns out by injuring miniaturised follicles and injecting VT will cause the DNA to mutate and make the hairs DHT resistant and terminal they can report back.  (They won't)   

Histopathology of aging of the hair follicle - Fernandez‐Flores - 2019 - Journal of Cutaneous Pathology - Wiley Online Library

 

2 minutes ago, Hair Tomorrow said:

When will this group chat be taking place, thanks - and will it be broadcast?

It would be good to set up a Discord group for networking purposes and general discussion. Many people here are in liaison with various HT surgeons hoping to include VT in their own experiments and the dialogue would certainly flow better than on a forum. 

[CureSeeker]

1 hour ago, Dragonsphere said:

If people are so infatuated with Microneedling, I would advise them to conduct these experiment themselves. Miniaturised follicles are only around 0.7mm deep which is shallower than the average dermarolling session. If it turns out by injuring miniaturised follicles and injecting VT will cause the DNA to mutate and make the hairs DHT resistant and terminal they can report back.  (They won't)   

Histopathology of aging of the hair follicle - Fernandez‐Flores - 2019 - Journal of Cutaneous Pathology - Wiley Online Library

Again, if verteporfin causes new follicles to be produced rather than rejuvenating old follicles, then the state of any existing follicles is less relevant.

Also, the difference between follicles in the crown vs in the donor region is not their DNA. It wouldn't take DNA mutation to make the follicles resistant (I'm NOT saying verteporfin would do this, I'm just addressing your remark about mutation). All cells in the body, aside from things like gametes, have identical DNA. There can be some very small variations due to sporadic mutations or telomeres but those are negligible.

The differences between those two hair follicle cells is in their states, such as their epigenetic configurations (i.e. DNA methylation, histone modifications), protein markings, etc, rather than the DNA itself. It's also how stem cells are differentiated and dedifferentiated.

[Nikoni]

hi @Killian  are you planning to continue updating here ? We would love to hear about the progress. 

[Tonyyy]

Hello @DrTBarghouthi, looks like the latest patient has gone through more than 2 weeks of Verteporfin injection in the donor, can you please post the progress so far?

By the way, will Fue scar repair be done by you next month? I’m one of those who has it and desperately want to get rid of it, would you seriously consider getting it done? Really appreciate that if you start planning for it.

Edited April 8 by Tonyyy

[bigmistake]

Its just been two weeks, its a bit early. I would also like to see FUE scar repair case.

[Tonyyy]

7 minutes ago, bigmistake said:

Its just been two weeks, its a bit early. I would also like to see FUE scar repair case.

Yes, the time it takes for the wound to scab is probably 10 days, I just want to see if injecting Vert will make any difference in healing, I heard that if the scabbing process is slow then Vert will work.

[OleBaldy]

On 11/25/2023 at 12:06 PM, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys,

Hope you’re all well and I very much appreciate your enthusiasm and persistence- including @Melvin- Adminand all the others here who supported this in one way or another. 
We did a full FUE on one of our booked patients and injected verteporfin in the entire donor area as per his request and desire. As mentioned previously, this does not fall under the full FUE trial that is planned. 
The procedure went well and to be honest I’m not sure if the patient is active here or is willing to share his updates publicly or not- I will leave that up to his personal choice. Nonetheless, from our side it was uneventful with nothing unusual to report after few days of having it done. 
As for the next trial, the patient is ready. The delay was mainly to make sure he has no major travel plans so that follow up can be scheduled easily. Moreover, I am waiting on a research grade trichoscopy analysis system for the donor which we are waiting for approvals here to get. This will help in getting accurate analysis of the extracted sites and better photos etc. I’m hoping we will have the system in the coming week or two and then we can slot in the patient for the trial. I’m just keen that we get the best out of this one and to be able to provide objective measures publicly.

Will keep you updated regarding that ofcourse. 

At 60 years old now and limited donor this is exciting

[bigmistake]

5 hours ago, Tonyyy said:

Yes, the time it takes for the wound to scab is probably 10 days, I just want to see if injecting Vert will make any difference in healing, I heard that if the scabbing process is slow then Vert will work.

wounds take 12 months to heal, you should watch out for Dr Bloxham's updates, if it works on FUT scars then it will work on FUE scars as well.

[Tonyyy]

2 hours ago, bigmistake said:

wounds take 12 months to heal, you should watch out for Dr Bloxham's updates, if it works on FUT scars then it will work on FUE scars as well.

Thanks for your response, I mean how it forms a scab at the Fue extraction site after 10 days, if it takes a long time to scab then it is because the Vert is working, this means that the follicle removal wound will heal differently because the newly extracted hair follicles can grow back.

I followed both doctors with each update, mine is already at 1 year 4 months mark so i want it fixed immediately.

[sansi]

if it works on older FUT scars it will work also on older FUE. Old FUE even has better chances as there is no laxity issues and the wound itself is much smaller. Hopefully Dr. Barghouthi will trial that also and help many people.

[Melvin- Admin]

 

[Fox243]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

 

Sounds like a great guy -- thanks for sharing the interview.

[Melvin- Admin]

45 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

Sounds like a great guy -- thanks for sharing the interview.

Forgot to timestamp it, but he talks about doing a trial at 32:48.

[HairFunk]

Incredible thread. I've been following Dr. Barghouthi for a long time now with this trial. Excellent hair transplant surgeon. Good to see Dr. Ted Miln and Dr. Bisanga are starting trials also. I have high hopes for this regenerative treatment 

[Dragonsphere]

18 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

 

Hi Melvin, thanks again for your continued effort with this endeavour. 

It was interesting how he mentioned using grants. 

Is there no way the community could help with this? 

I am more then willing to donate a sizeable amount for another trial. 

Verteporfin has picked up far more attention since the initial fundraiser. 

I am sure if we could raise $5k we could initiate a new trial. 

Perhaps something that hasn't been done before like wounding into previous FUE scars. 

On a side note Dr Miln's FUE results are spectacular.  

Edited April 9 by Dragonsphere

[Melvin- Admin]

42 minutes ago, Dragonsphere said:

Hi Melvin, thanks again for your continued effort with this endeavour. 

It was interesting how he mentioned using grants. 

Is there no way the community could help with this? 

I am more then willing to donate a sizeable amount for another trial. 

Verteporfin has picked up far more attention since the initial fundraiser. 

I am sure if we could raise $5k we could initiate a new trial. 

Perhaps something that hasn't been done before like wounding into previous FUE scars. 

On a side note Dr Miln's FUE results are spectacular.  

I’m actually setting something up for the ISHRS conference this year. I’m prepared to pledge some of my own money. The problem is getting surgeons on board. 

My goal is to have surgeons in the same room discuss potential protocols. If we can streamline a protocol and get multiple surgeons conducting studies simultaneously, then we’ll have reliable data. I have opened a group chat with Dr. Ted, Bisanga and Barghouthi. 

If you want to help our efforts, please share these videos across various hair loss forums and subs. The more people know, the higher the demand, the more likely surgeons are willing to do it. 

[Al - Moderator]

On 4/5/2024 at 7:18 PM, CureSeeker said:

Again, if verteporfin causes new follicles to be produced rather than rejuvenating old follicles, then the state of any existing follicles is less relevant.

 

I disagree here. I could be wrong, but I believe any new follicles would be created to be the same as those surrounding it. It's not a hair creating serum. If you had a scar on the palm of your hand and you put verteporfin on it, it's not going to create hair on your palms. It looks at the surrounding cells and creates new ones based on those. So if you get a scar on your scalp and use verteporfin on it, it's going to create new tissue to be the same as what is surrounding it. If the surrounding hair follicles are thin and miniaturizing then that's what the new follicles will be. At least that's my understanding based on what (little) I know of other research into cloning and cell regeneration. I hope I'm wrong and I admit I haven't been following this enough to know for sure. If there is evidence of something else, please let me know.

 

[Fox243]

2 minutes ago, Al - Moderator said:

 

I disagree here. I could be wrong, but I believe any new follicles would be created to be the same as those surrounding it. It's not a hair creating serum. If you had a scar on the palm of your hand and you put verteporfin on it, it's not going to create hair on your palms. It looks at the surrounding cells and creates new ones based on those. So if you get a scar on your scalp and use verteporfin on it, it's going to create new tissue to be the same as what is surrounding it. If the surrounding hair follicles are thin and miniaturizing then that's what the new follicles will be. At least that's my understanding based on what (little) I know of other research into cloning and cell regeneration. I hope I'm wrong and I admit I haven't been following this enough to know for sure. If there is evidence of something else, please let me know.

 

I think the answer is we just don't know. I am sure that any new follicles that will be created would be DHT susceptible as those surrounding it if verteporfin is put in the recipient zone. The question is whether they start over from "scratch" or damaged like surrounding hair.

[CureSeeker]

Just now, Fox243 said:

I think the answer is we just don't know. I am sure that any new follicles that will be created would be DHT susceptible as those surrounding it if verteporfin is put in the recipient zone. The question is whether they start over from "scratch" or damaged like surrounding hair.

Yes, this exactly.

We're in uncharted territory, so none of us really know. We can speculate on plausible results though.

Not only have we not tested verteporfin much, we haven't even done tests with de novo follicle generation in human skin, because no therapy has successfully done that yet. Assuming verteporfin can, we don't know how those brand new follicles would behave in comparison to old, degraded follicles. It could be that any single follicle needs a decade of DHT exposure before it starts to miniaturize. That would be awesome.

 

[Fox243]

9 minutes ago, CureSeeker said:

Yes, this exactly.

We're in uncharted territory, so none of us really know. We can speculate on plausible results though.

Not only have we not tested verteporfin much, we haven't even done tests with de novo follicle generation in human skin, because no therapy has successfully done that yet. Assuming verteporfin can, we don't know how those brand new follicles would behave in comparison to old, degraded follicles. It could be that any single follicle needs a decade of DHT exposure before it starts to miniaturize. That would be awesome.

 

However, I don't see why to waste a doctor's time doing this when any individual can just try this at home via deep microneedling. All the evidence supports that the highest chance of success is the way Dr. Barghouthi is doing it currently, so I would rather optimize that first.

[CureSeeker]

Just now, Fox243 said:

However, I don't see why to waste a doctor's time doing this when any individual can just try this at home via deep microneedling. All the evidence supports that the highest chance of success is the way Dr. Barghouthi is doing it currently, so I would rather optimize that first.

I'm sure many people would be happy to test it at home themselves. The problem is people can't get verteporfin.

[Fox243]

3 minutes ago, CureSeeker said:

I'm sure many people would be happy to test it at home themselves. The problem is people can't get verteporfin.

It is not difficult to order verteporfin is someone is determined. Many sites sell it and you can just claim you are a clinic if you truly want it. It's more that people aren't willing to go the extra mile to acquire verteporfin. I am in a discord and telegram with several people who have done this for scarring (no one has done it for AGA yet though iirc)

Edited April 9 by Fox243