Dr. Patrick Mwamba (Fue Clinic) - 1300 grafts - 5th & 6th of July 2021

[Jackdaniels]

22 minutes ago, mustang said:

That definitely happens or all doctors would get 100% growth BUT saying poor growth is 99% the Dr's fault when speaking of elite surgeons that follow strict protocols is far from true

I had poor growth with Couto and would never question him as the best in the world and he made it very clear to me that I had scar tissue from previous surgeries in my recipient area. My best friend also had poor growth with Couto and he was in the same boat with previous surgeries and still thinks Couto is the best.

So no, it's not 99% the Dr's fault.

Clinics do not promise 100% growth, but less about 90-95%. But when there are visible gaps in the scalp, so that means poor growth in some areas below these percentages. Then it’s mostly surgeon’s fault. Something would have been done wrong in the procedure either by the surgeon himself in the incisions or in extractions or by his techs in the implantation phase. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Jackdaniels

[Gatsby]

The only thing a great doctor can promise is to do there absolute best. The only thing a bad doctor can promise is to promise you whatever you need to hear. 

[Dr. Patrick Mwamba]

there is a guideline to assess poor growth after surgery :

1. No growth :suspect scarring alopecia such as lichen planopilaris and others .To detect them , you need to do a scalp biopsy .Why don't we perform scalp biopsy on all patients?

Because the probability is low . This is not Dr 

's fault unless the patient had clear signs of the disease and the doctor missed it at the examination with the dermatoscope .

Few signs of scarring alopecia or primary cicatricial alopecia : pores closed, perifollicular erythema , shiny scalp , perifollicular cast , etc...

If you do not have these signs , the patient could still have a scarring alopecia that is beginning  and this will impair the growth .

There was also a debate about lichen planopilaris ( responsible for many poor growth in HTS).

Can HTS trigger or induce lichen planopilaris ? Because before surgery , nothing suggested this diagnosis ?

In this case , it is not always dr's fault 

[BaldReaper]

2 hours ago, Dr. Patrick Mwamba said:

there is a guideline to assess poor growth after surgery :

1. No growth :suspect scarring alopecia such as lichen planopilaris and others .To detect them , you need to do a scalp biopsy .Why don't we perform scalp biopsy on all patients?

Because the probability is low . This is not Dr 

's fault unless the patient had clear signs of the disease and the doctor missed it at the examination with the dermatoscope .

Few signs of scarring alopecia or primary cicatricial alopecia : pores closed, perifollicular erythema , shiny scalp , perifollicular cast , etc...

If you do not have these signs , the patient could still have a scarring alopecia that is beginning  and this will impair the growth .

There was also a debate about lichen planopilaris ( responsible for many poor growth in HTS).

Can HTS trigger or induce lichen planopilaris ? Because before surgery , nothing suggested this diagnosis ?

In this case , it is not always dr's fault 

Sorry Doctor but what do you mean that you do not check because the probability is low? There is a person trusting you for a cosmetic procedure and paying you a considerable amount of money for that procedure, the effects of which are going to be visible to himself and the people around him for the rest of his life and you do not check a factor that will probably cause the outcome of this procedure to be terrible because there is a low probability? Sorry but I don't really get this

[ITA]

1 hour ago, BaldV said:

Sorry Doctor but what do you mean that you do not check because the probability is low? There is a person trusting you for a cosmetic procedure and paying you a considerable amount of money for that procedure, the effects of which are going to be visible to himself and the people around him for the rest of his life and you do not check a factor that will probably cause the outcome of this procedure to be terrible because there is a low probability? Sorry but I don't really get this

In fact, I could get it from a hair mill, but in a respectable clinic like yours, from a doctor as you @Dr. Patrick MwambaI don't get it either, In addition, in your visits, you are very careful and meticulous, so much so that even online consultations have a cost with you.

Edited September 14, 2022 by ITA

[mustang]

2 hours ago, BaldV said:

Sorry Doctor but what do you mean that you do not check because the probability is low? There is a person trusting you for a cosmetic procedure and paying you a considerable amount of money for that procedure, the effects of which are going to be visible to himself and the people around him for the rest of his life and you do not check a factor that will probably cause the outcome of this procedure to be terrible because there is a low probability? Sorry but I don't really get this

Do you even know what a scalp biopsy is?

How much it costs? 

The time it takes to check for something that 99.9% of patients don't have ?

I have been to 12 surgeons, the ABSOLUTE BEST surgeons in the world for FUE with previous surgery an none has ever even mentioned the option of doing a scalp biopsy, EVER.

No wonder surgeons rarely bother to come and post on here. To think they spend their time trying to explain things from a medical perspective and get responses like this. S

Go find a clinic that will perform a biopsy on your scalp before having a procedure done, let me know how it goes.

Edited September 14, 2022 by mustang

[mustang]

1 hour ago, ITA said:

In fact, I could get it from a hair mill, but in a respectable clinic like yours, from a doctor as you @Dr. Patrick MwambaI don't get it either, In addition, in your visits, you are very careful and meticulous, so much so that even online consultations have a cost with you.

So surgeons should work for free now?

[ITA]

26 minutes ago, mustang said:

So surgeons should work for free now?

When I read some time ago that the doctor also charged online visits, I was the first to say that it seemed right, also because when you go for a visit privately to a professional, you pay, but it is not usual, very few surgeons they do, especially online visits.  If @Dr. Patrick Mwambadoes it, it is precisely because his visits are probably more thorough, so in my opinion he should at least have some doubts whether to operate on the patient or not.
@mustang You look like the lawyer of @Dr. Patrick Mwamba

[mustang]

24 minutes ago, ITA said:

When I read some time ago that the doctor also charged online visits, I was the first to say that it seemed right, also because when you go for a visit privately to a professional, you pay, but it is not usual, very few surgeons they do, especially online visits.  If @Dr. Patrick Mwambadoes it, it is precisely because his visits are probably more thorough, so in my opinion he should at least have some doubts whether to operate on the patient or not.
@mustang You look like the lawyer of @Dr. Patrick Mwamba

I am more than a lawyer, I am a friend and advocate for his work. I am shill according to some.

When I had my consultation it took an hour so yes, very thorough indeed.

Imagine 20 hours a week doing free consultations for people that just want to know their hair status or medication to take etc.., that's a lot.

I think it's OK to charge for your work. I have been charged by most surgeons but it was always credited towards my surgery which I also think is cool.

[Z--]

On 9/12/2022 at 1:41 AM, mustang said:

I know for a fact they contacted you several times to come in for a consultation to check what happened and offered a second pass because I asked them personally about your case.

Saying the doctor did not care about your result is not true, anybody who knows Dr Mwamba or has been his patient knows what a warm and kind person he is, the guy is in surgery until midnight daily 6 times a week and has a team to handle these things like any other clinic.

 

Some of the complaints in this thread are weird. Surgery duration being too long? Wtf lol. It's good that he spends that time with the patient.

I really like Mwamba. He's a top ten or so surgeon, imo, but your comment is concerning. Why is Dr. Mwamba talking about another patient's case with you...? Do you work for the clinic? If so, please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought if someone works with the clinic they're supposed to place that in the signature. 

No judgement -- your result with him are awesome, but I'm curious. 

[Mike10]

It is an interesting discussion. I am writing this in more general terms regardless of this case and the clinic.

It seems to me that some did not do their proper research and have expectations that are may be too high.Based on cases published by clinics (which of course are all home runs), they expect that a perfect outcome is ensured.  Even of you go to a well regarded Dr it can happen that you need a touch up. HT is a committment, in terms of  budget and time. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[ITA]

3 hours ago, FITA said:

It really is strange that @Melvin- Moderatorallows @mustangto deceive us all. Multiple people on this forum have literally spoken to Joshua Siebelink from FUE Clinic. I spoke to him on the phone and he told me how he’d had over 10 surgeries and suffered with scalp psoriasis. Also mentioned Argentina. Are we really supposed to believe that all this is a coincidence? Mustang signed off a comment on his own thread with his name: Josh (see screenshot). He comments on every single post about Mwamba. It’s not even subtle.

There wouldn’t even be an issue if he was just up front about it. But doing it this way is obviously more effective in influencing people to choose Mwamba. So I would call it deceitful.

Melvin, could you confirm if you are paid in any way by the clinic too? I ask because when I had a consultation with Dr Couto I mentioned this forum and he told me that you had approached him, but he had no interest in paying for marketing because he doesn’t need it. Is this why you deliberately spell his name wrong whenever he’s mentioned on here?

I hope you don’t delete this comment and/or my profile as people have a right to see this. All I’m asking for is clarity. Thank you

The forum has costs, @Melvin- Moderatorit has always said, these are paid with the contribution that each surgeon / clinic pays to present their work on the forum and this too @Melvin- Moderator has always said so.  Now, we would have to discuss more about the honesty of whoever administers the forum, and I can certainly say that @Melvin- Moderator is an honest and genuine person.  Try to register on the European forums, in particular on an Italian forum, even there the clinics / surgeons pay (in my opinion much more than they pay on HRN) but they can count on the unethicality of administrators and moderators, there the patient threads discontented people are blocked and slowly canceled because no one will be given the opportunity to write and those patients will even be banned.  There, @Ajamilowould have already disappeared from that forum just for having recounted his misadventure

[Matt3210]

18 hours ago, Z-- said:

Some of the complaints in this thread are weird. Surgery duration being too long? Wtf lol. It's good that he spends that time with the patient.

If HT surgery time is too long and the grafts are kept outside the body for too long, this can significantly affect the survival rate of the grafts and the end result.

[Melvin- Admin]

I have messaged mustang and he is adamant that he’s not a paid representative. So not exactly sure what you guys want me to do? I suggest we focus on the issues at hand, rather than speculate on non-issues. 

[Matt3210]

On 9/14/2022 at 1:50 PM, BaldV said:

Poor growth is 99% Dr’s fault

I agree that 99% of the poor results or complications are the fault of the doctor / clinic. Hair transplant is very safe these days if the doctor knows exactly what he is doing and has a well-trained team. I have not yet heard of any Dr. admit to making a mistake. Doctors always find a reason to avoid responsibility. In some clinics a poor result is more common, in others almost completely. Marketing gibberish is here too.

This is a great website for research, many people share the results. I recommend that you keep a distance to the words about "excellent doctors" and make decisions based on the results of real patients, not related to the any clinic.

[mustang]

1 hour ago, Matt3210 said:

I agree that 99% of the poor results or complications are the fault of the doctor / clinic. Hair transplant is very safe these days if the doctor knows exactly what he is doing and has a well-trained team. I have not yet heard of any Dr. admit to making a mistake. Doctors always find a reason to avoid responsibility. In some clinics a poor result is more common, in others almost completely. Marketing gibberish is here too.

This is a great website for research, many people share the results. I recommend that you keep a distance to the words about "excellent doctors" and make decisions based on the results of real patients, not related to the any clinic.

Not on repair cases.

[Matt3210]

51 minutes ago, mustang said:

Not on repair 

In this case, the hair transplant was performed on the virgin part of the head. In addition, the patient complains of cobblestoning. It is also a technical mistake that can be avoided.

[mrmane85]

On 9/12/2022 at 10:41 AM, mustang said:

I know for a fact they contacted you several times to come in for a consultation to check what happened and offered a second pass because I asked them personally about your case.

Saying the doctor did not care about your result is not true, anybody who knows Dr Mwamba or has been his patient knows what a warm and kind person he is, the guy is in surgery until midnight daily 6 times a week and has a team to handle these things like any other clinic.

 

Is that standard practice for a surgeon/clinic to share information to patients of their communication with other patients? 

[ITA]

1 hour ago, mrmane85 said:

Is that standard practice for a surgeon/clinic to share information to patients of their communication with other patients? 

Perhaps only those who work for the clinic can obtain this information?  🤔

[LookMaxx]

21 hours ago, FITA said:

There wouldn’t even be an issue if he was just up front about it. But doing it this way is obviously more effective in influencing people to choose Mwamba. So I would call it deceitful.

I think the more serious issue is him discrediting and insulting people. He made me think I was crazy for thinking this is a terrible result for a HUGELY expensive doctor  and a free touch up should be offered. He can shill all he want under guises but the problem is with bullying. 
 

I want to believe this guy is just doing this on his own because it reflects terribly on the doctor. Which is unfortunate as this doctor has such a great reputation otherwise. 

You know the saying who needs enemies when you’ve got friends like these 🤌

[Mike8000fue]

I also think that dr mwamba stay to much time before extraction and implantation and the grafts are outside the body to much time, this is not good. I did my 3 rd transplant with them and this is my opinion. At my first 2 transplants after extraction the grafts were implanted in a short time.

[Ajamilo]

23 hours ago, FITA said:

It really is strange that @Melvin- Moderatorallows @mustangto deceive us all. Multiple people on this forum have literally spoken to Joshua Siebelink from FUE Clinic. I spoke to him on the phone and he told me how he’d had over 10 surgeries and suffered with scalp psoriasis. Also mentioned Argentina. Are we really supposed to believe that all this is a coincidence? Mustang signed off a comment on his own thread with his name: Josh (see screenshot). He comments on every single post about Mwamba. It’s not even subtle.

There wouldn’t even be an issue if he was just up front about it. But doing it this way is obviously more effective in influencing people to choose Mwamba. So I would call it deceitful.

Melvin, could you confirm if you are paid in any way by the clinic too? I ask because when I had a consultation with Dr Couto I mentioned this forum and he told me that you had approached him, but he had no interest in paying for marketing because he doesn’t need it. Is this why you deliberately spell his name wrong whenever he’s mentioned on here?

I hope you don’t delete this comment and/or my profile as people have a right to see this. All I’m asking for is clarity. Thank you.

he is Joshua. he is just so stupid that he exposed himself to my friend and it seems he did to you too and others here. 

Anyway, I think this thread is going a bit in the wrong direction tbh

[Z--]

18 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I have messaged mustang and he is adamant that he’s not a paid representative. So not exactly sure what you guys want me to do? I suggest we focus on the issues at hand, rather than speculate on non-issues. 

This is not a non-issue. It undermines the integrity of the forum. I wonder if this reaction would be the same if there was overwhelming proof that a representative of a Turkish hair-mill was pretending to be a patient, undermining the concern of other genuine patients of that doctor in threads here...😒

I think there's only three possible outcomes here. All are problematic and I think if Mwamba is sponsored by the forum, then there is an obligation to look into this with the doctor.

1. Mwamba is divulging patient information to strangers. Big red flag if true.

2. Mustang is just a patient and slandering Mwamba's name with fake stories about Mwamba speaking to him about other patients. Very unfair to the doctor to allow this to continue.

3. Mustang is a paid representative (same name, same location, same scalp condition, same number of surgeries, etc.) and not disclosing it (actively denying it). FITA is absolutely correct that it is deceit in this case.

[Matt3210]

If a user is a representative of the clinic (many things indicate this) and presents himself as an independent patient, and the surgeon knows it perfectly well and pays for such services, I also consider it a fraud.

[Dr. Patrick Mwamba]

2nd figure : 

patchy area of poor growth .Most of the time , it is due to poor blood circulation due to deep incision ( doctor responsability ) , or chronic folliculitis .The last one can occur because of MRSA on patient's scalp ( staphylococcus ) ( not the fault of the doctor ) or foreign body reactions  ( transection rate ( Dr Dr's fault ) , poor hygiene of the scalp ( patient's fault ) , physical trauma ( patient bumped his scalp on something that dislodged the graft ).

 

Poor growth can occur due to uv exposure for long time  9 patient's fault ) , other major surgery within 6 months post op , etc...

That's why we have to do an in person consultation to really understand what happened , determine the responsibility and move forward .

there is no winner when such things happen .Let's work together , honestly and with trust .That's the only way we can find decent solutions that will allow everyone to move forward with their lives .