[29M] Going for 1500-2000 grafts in 5 days. Thoughs?

[Portugal25]

@Melvin- Moderatorand other HRN friends, my apologies for my long absence from HRN but I saw this thread from a fellow Portuguese and just had to take the time to contribute.

@Luismendes535you have been given very good advice!

Your first mistake was selecting a Clinic rather than selecting a Doctor with real proven results from real patients here at HRN or other hairloss foruns.

I can understand you like Cristinano Ronaldo but surely you wouldn`t do a hearth transplant surgery at a clinic just because it`s endorssed by Ronaldo?!? Surely you would problably also want to search for a SURGEON that would actually be doing your surgery and one that has several references (successful patients that had successful surgeries). 

In Portugal there are only 2 top Doctors; Dr. Bruno Ferreira (one of the best in the world) and Dr. Bruno Pinto. 

The rest are clinics that hire underpaid nurses to do your hair transplants with zero to little involvement from a skilled Doctor thus resulting in a much higher transection rate (worst results).

These hairmills that are doing upwards of 18 hair transplants per day will have a more skilled Nurse or Doctor do the slits/holes and then the others Nurses or Technicians (that may have no medical background) will use implantor pens to implant the graft into the pre-made slits. Pre-made slits will require the slit to be wider because the slit/hole will immediately start to close once opened and the wider the hole the worst the recovery and results. Implantor Pens are used when skilled Doctors want to load each one with a graft and be able to punch the slit and implant the graft at the same time thus reducing the time the slit/hole stays open (quicker recovery time and lower transection rate). Hairmills with underpaid Nurses or Techs will not be able to reap the benefits from this technique because the Nurses or Techs are not skilled enought to implant grafts without having the pre-made slits that show them where they need to implant the grafts. So basically your scalp will be punched twice to implant each graft instead of just once when you chose a skilled a Doctor. 

A skilled surgeon will have a transection rate of about 5% while the transection rate of the least skilled is between 20 or 75%.

Our donor area is limited (a lot of people don`t have more than 4000 grafts of total donor area) so you will be wasting 2000 precious grafts by doing this surgery at a hairmill rather then going to  a skilled surgeon like Dr. Ferreira that could probably rebuild your hairline with half that amount due to having a highly skilled technique and a lower transection rate.

My advice, cancel the hairmill start taking finasteride 3x/week plus Minoxidil spray every night, do this for at least 6 months before having a HT with one of the two best Doctors in Portugal. After 6 months you might realize that you don`t actually need a HT.

Remember that a hair transplant is not like buying a car because you can`t return it or sell it when you get bored! You will live with the results of this surgery for the rest of your life.

Hope you make the right decision!

Edited September 20, 2021 by Portugal25

[Britanium]

@Portugal25Thank you so much for chiming in 👍🏽 Your exactly the person I was hoping would 🙏

[ITA]

@Portugal25Welcome back, we missed you.

[Melvin- Admin]

@Portugal25glad to have you back my friend.

[Luismendes535]

Hey guys,

Just want to tell you that I canceled the hair transplant. 

Thank you very much for your help. The next steps will be doing more research on the HT topic and after that, I will probably give a try to finestaride before jumping into an HT.

PS: Thank you very much @Portugal25 for speaking with me over phone and share with me your valuable knowledge.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Luismendes535

[Britanium]

1 minute ago, Luismendes535 said:

Hey guys,

Just want to tell you that I canceled the hair transplant. 

Thank you very much for your help. The next steps will be doing more research on the HT topic and after that, I will probably give a try to finestaride before jumping into an HT.

PS: Thank you very much @Portugal25 for speaking with me over phone and share with me your valuable knowledge.

Phew 😥 So pleased that you have cancelled, I was worried you was going to make a mistake you would later regret. @Portugal25is the man 👍🏽

[Legend007]

If it’s good enough for Ronaldo then it’s good enough for u .. 

he will probably call u personally and ask u why u canceled. N to tell u to stop watching him play soccer .. he’s not a fan of urs anymore..

[JDEE0]

Glad to hear you avoided what could have turned into a big mistake! Props to @Portugal25for taking some time out to speak some sense into you over the phone.

Yeah, spend the next 6 months to a year researching around HT's, hair loss in general and get on fin whilst you do so. Once you're ready (mostly once you know what you're getting yourself into after researching properly and are comfortable that you're happy enough to commit to fin long term) you have a number of options right on your doorstep that many of us, including myself, have to hop on a plane to get to (Portugal and Spain).

If I was you, I would go for an in person consultation with both Pinto and Ferreira as you're nearby and speak to them/form a game plan. 

[MachoVato]

I believe Dr. Pinto charges 2.5 Euro/graft. Ferreira charges 3/graft. 

I would not hesitate to have a transplant from either of these doctors. I've seen their work and the results are excellent. Please don't go to the celebrity-endorsed clinic. 

[Melvin- Admin]

The biggest most obvious question would be why limit yourself to Portugal. You should definitely consider Spain as well, some very talented surgeons. That said, please reconsider your decision for surgery. You have a perfectly normal mature hairline for a 29 year old man. Do not chase perfection with surgery that is a mistake.

[Britanium]

If you HAVE to stay in Portugal then yes you have 2 excellent Drs to consider. If you can travel then yes you have so many more options. Dr Freitas in Spain for example ! Let us know your thoughts. However I would be waiting a year at least and starting Fin/Minox in the meantime. 

[JDEE0]

Yeah, I don't think that anyone is suggesting OP should limit himself to Portugal only, and it is in fact being suggested to him to consider both Spain and Portugal. It would just be convenient for him to go and at least have in person consults with Pinto and Ferreira as they are close by and very good and he can get detailed reports for his case rather than just sending someone pictures as most have to rely on. I really don't think he needs to look further afield than Spain though, the options he has are ideal for his hair type and loss. 

[Portugal25]

@Luismendes535as we discussed over the phone, you should use Finasteride every other day for 6 months before having a HT because it will stop your hairloss and increase the density of your hair. It`s likely that in 6 months you might find that a HT isn`t necessary.

If in 6 months you still want to rebuild your hairline then besides the two obvious choices in Portugal you should also consider Dr. Ximena Villa that used to work with Dr. Lorenzo before Dr. Bruno Ferreira joined his clinic. I do believe she still charges 2.5€/graft. 

Dr. Juan Couto in Madrid and Dr. Rafael De Freitas in Valencia are considered the best in Spain but be prepared for a 2 year wait list.

Stay firm saying NO to the call center from the hairmill as I`m sure they will be calling you 6x per day pushing you to book the surgery and giving you discount after discount to get you seated into one of the 18 surgery chairs that must be occupied every day.

Best of luck my friend!

Edited September 20, 2021 by Portugal25

[Britanium]

Yup get that deposit back and then block all the numbers/email from them. They will definitely try hard to get you ! 

[Luismendes535]

As expected, I got a call from them today. The guy who called me was the clinic director I think (I can't remember the name, it was in the morning and I was on my way to work) and he wasn't very insistent, but he wanted to know why I canceled the transplant.

I told him that I wasn't sure about having surgery by a nurse and worse, by a nurse who has not yet proven results. He replied that his team is the most experienced in Portugal and that they have had excellent results. He also told me that the nurses who would transplant my hair would be the team that was responsible for Raul Meireles' transplant.

I said that I would still prefer to be submitted to surgery by a doctor with proven evidence and gave him as an example Bruno Ferreira and Bruno Pinto, referring to them as being the best in Europe in the area of hair transplantation. His reaction was to laugh about being the best in Europe and he compared himself with them in some way but I replied that for me it was worth zero as he wouldn't be the one to give me the transplant.

Finally I also told him that I wanted to give Finasteride a chance and he said that the effectiveness is 20 to 30% and has side effects such as loss of libido, erection and sperm quality.

The conversation ended here because I was in a hurry. I told him I would get in touch tomorrow if I had anything else to add.

The man was never arrogant and was available to clarify doubts.

Do you think I should try to clarify my doubts and try to understand the feasibility of a transplant in this clinic?

Edited September 21, 2021 by Luismendes535

[JDEE0]

 

26 minutes ago, Luismendes535 said:

As expected, I got a call from them today. The guy who called me was the clinic director I think (I can't remember the name, it was in the morning and I was on my way to work) and he wasn't very insistent, but he wanted to know why I canceled the transplant.

I told him that I wasn't sure about having surgery by a nurse and worse, by a nurse who has not yet proven results. He replied that his team is the most experienced in Portugal and that they have had excellent results. He also told me that the nurses who would transplant my hair would be the team that was responsible for Raul Meireles' transplant.

I said that I would still prefer to be submitted to surgery by a doctor with proven evidence and gave him as an example Bruno Ferreira and Bruno Pinto, referring to them as being the best in Europe in the area of hair transplantation. His reaction was to laugh about being the best in Europe and he compared himself with them in some way but I replied that for me it was worth zero as he wouldn't be the one to give me the transplant.

Finally I also told him that I wanted to give Finasteride a chance and he said that the effectiveness is 20 to 30% and has side effects such as loss of libido, erection and sperm quality.

The conversation ended here because I was in a hurry. I told him I would get in touch tomorrow if I had anything else to add.

The man was never arrogant and was available to clarify doubts.

Do you think I should try to clarify my doubts and try to understand the feasibility of a transplant in this clinic?

To your last sentence: nope. Just let it go with this clinic and choose one of the following: Dr. Couto, Dr. Rafael De Freitas, Dr. Ximena Vila, Dr. Bruno Pinto, Dr. Bruno Ferreira or Dr. Lorenzo. I say these names as they are all in Spain or Portugal and are world class, you could of course look further afield to say, Belgium for example, but there's no need to. These doctors are all amazing and close to you which seems to be a drawing factor for you also from what I can tell.

Celebrity endorsements are meaningless and lots of sub-par clinics (especially here in the UK) use them to entice prospective patients in. Whilst Raul's job looks pretty good, he seems to always wear his hair down, so I couldn't even tell you if it was really a good job or not as his hairline could be completely unnatural, who knows. It grew well for sure, but that's all I can say.

Well, if he's so good, then why does he operate with this business model? Obviously the answer is money, but as he said himself, it wouldn't matter even if he was as good or better as the docs you brought up as he wouldn't be doing the surgery himself anyway and will be delegating to a team of technicians whose credentials you know nothing about, so that seems like a very strange comeback to me. Besides, who has heard of this guy and where is his reputation to back his claims?

Effectiveness is 20 to 30 percent by what metric? I don't even understand what this means - does he mean it has a 20-30% success rate? If so, very untrue, the longest standing data we have is a study of 523 men In which 99% were at or above baseline (hair loss didn't worsen) after 10 years. Beyond this timeframe we have no official data, but the participants weren't declining even at this time at any appreciable rate really, so it most certainly will continue to work very effectively after this point most likely for a good while. Other studies corroborate this and it's generally accepted 90% plus of men at least maintain on the drug long term. Also, not *has* a side effect profile of this, but *can have* these side effects in 3-5% ish of users (placebo usually reports the same sides in a very similar range in most studies too....not saying they don't exist though, they do, just take from that what you will).

Sounds like he just wants to get you into the chair to me. At the end of the day, there's a decent chance everything will be fine, but there's a much higher chance that it will go badly than if you chose a real doctor led clinic with a stellar reputation. We've all given you advice here, but the fact you're still entertaining the idea by even speaking on the phone with the clinic shows it's not really sticking properly. If you wanna go ahead and place your trust in this guy and his clinic, then that's of course your right and we would all hope that things do indeed go well and work out for you, just don't know why you would considering the great options you have in your country and your neighbouring country. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by JDEE0

[Portugal25]

@Luismendes535 the call you had was exactly what to be expected from a hairmill clinic. 

They mentioned another celebrity name to get you hooked and claimed you would get the same nurses that did surgery on that celebrity when in fact there’s no way for you to confirm this information because not even that celebrity knows who were the nurses that did his surgery.

I told you to check another celebrity endorsing them Rui Unas and you can see on his Instagram that he has doubles on his hairline. They even managed to botch a HT done on celebrity that is endorsing them and thus should be getting the best HT they can perform:
https://instagram.com/o_unas?utm_medium=copy_link

Saying Finasteride is only 20% effective is simply ridiculous and this person claiming to be a Doctor has either downgraded himself to a hairmill salesman or you were actually speaking with trained salesman from their call center. 

I highly advise you to book a consultation with Dr. Bruno Ferreira and Dr. Bruno Pinto so you can understand what it’s like to speak with a actual Doctor that cares only about his patients outcome. You will find they will focus more on what’s best for you and not how fast they can get you their in their operating room. 

Keep strong and just say NO when you get the next call maybe this time it will be from the President of the clinic offering another discount if you pay now. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Portugal25

[Melvin- Admin]

First of all, your hair loss in my opinion doesn’t warrant surgery. But if you must insist on surgery you need the very best. Ask yourself this, how would you feel with a botched hair transplant? If the answer is worse than your hair loss now, do not get it done at a mill. 

[Legend007]

That was Ronaldo calling u in disguise . I told u he’s gonna call u.  

[MachoVato]

I would recommend not to make any decisions until you have a phone call with another clinic. There are several clinic representatives on this forum who would gladly speak with you. They can speak to those same issues. 

How can he guarantee the team that would work on you? There are 18 rooms, aren't there 18 teams? Personally, it's a joke that he would put himself in the same category of doctors with proven results. If his results were that good, his prices would be the same. 

You can select any clinic you want, of course. However, if you can afford a the better clinic, this isn't the time to look for a bargain.

[Britanium]

Block the numbers and say “Adeus” to these sales reps ! They have literally proven themselves to be very unprofessional and it’s clear they will just try any tactic to try and get you. Only hair mails and poor clinics do this ! Seriously you have some really good advice in this thread and we are all saying the same Drs who will give you the best chance of a good result. And that’s even if you need it, as we have already mentioned then you should be giving Fin/Minox a year to take effect. Then review your situation again. Even consultations with the decent clinics would give a better idea/understanding of your current situation and what’s the best plan moving forward. 

[Gatsby]

I read an article on Ronaldo a couple of years ago on how he had decided on investing in a hair mill with multiple doctors performing surgery on multiple patients on a daily basis. Seriously, it worries me no end on how people put more research into buying a car than they do in researching for life altering surgery!!! 😬

[Gatsby]

You can always sell a bad car however you can't,................................................................! 😮

[Gatsby]

On 9/20/2021 at 2:37 AM, Luismendes535 said:

I like the yellow line but I'm afraid that it won't look good when I'm like 50. 

The red line is a more conservative approach to just improve by a little my hairline.

 

PS: I didn't take any meds before. My hairline has looked like this for the past 8 years at least and I think meds wont make the hair grow in that areas. What do you think?

Honestly, take this with the respect that it comes with. I don't know how old you are but you do not need a hair transplant. Not now. You may consider to go to your GP for a prescription for finasteride and trial this for at least six to twelve months, or even minoxidil for that matter. I am seriously urging you not to have surgery now unless you want to end up like myself and so many others who never carried out any due diligence and made an emotional decision and not a logical one. It's heavy price that it will cost you and you will be paying this price for the rest of your life. I really hope you choose not to make what will be a terrble mistake that is completely avoidable.

 

[Luismendes535]

Thanks again for all your responses, all of them were super useful to make a much better decision.

 

I'm thinking in the next steps and I'm feeling the temptation to jump immediatily on finasteride.

 

Is there any irreversal side effects of taking it? If I get side effects and stop it everythig goes back to normal? Where can I buy it?