[29M] Going for 1500-2000 grafts in 5 days. Thoughs?

[Britanium]

Speak your Dr and discuss all the implications etc it may have. They are best informed to help you start. Maybe @Portugal25would give you some recommendations on where to obtain ! 👍🏽

[Portugal25]

@Luismendes535maybe you should to speak with Dr. BF or Dr. BP about finasteride so they can better answers all your questions.

I was told that the chances of having side effects are less than 2% (less if you take just 3x/week) and even if you notice something it usually fades away after a couple of weeks. If you do find after a few weeks that you still have side effects you can simply stop taking finasteride and the side effects will fade away.

Back in 2007 Dr. Rahal told me to take finasteride 1mg every other day (dia sim dia não) and I didn`t take his advise because after the transplant to my frontal area I had a very dense full head of hair.

Unfortunately you can see on my profile pic that I lost all the hair in my midscalp and crown in the following 10 years because my genes had already determined I was going to be a NW7 by the age of 35 and only if I had taken finasteride could I have prevented my hairloss from advancing to NW7,

You can buy finasteride 1mg and minoxidil 5% spray at any local pharmacie without prescprition. 

Wish you all the best.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Portugal25

[JDEE0]

34 minutes ago, Luismendes535 said:

Thanks again for all your responses, all of them were super useful to make a much better decision.

 

I'm thinking in the next steps and I'm feeling the temptation to jump immediatily on finasteride.

 

Is there any irreversal side effects of taking it? If I get side effects and stop it everythig goes back to normal? Where can I buy it?

 

 

As always, it is of course best to speak to a Dr. (preferably someone knowledgable who has lots of experience with the drug, so any of the names we have given should be authority figures on the subject, but personally I feel Dr. Lorenzo's knowledge of fin is very deep so he would be good to chat to if possible). 

Having said that, there is tons of clinical data on the subject online and there is a clear medical consensus that side effects are NOT irreversible. You will indeed find anecdotes online of people claiming the opposite and speaking of 'post finasteride syndrome', but it is not a medically recognised condition in any way, and you can believe at this point it's been investigated and scrutinised heavily.

There's numerous long term placebo controlled studies out there for you to look at which all show that side effects were mild, occurred in a low percentage of users (usually below 3%), always went away upon stopping the drug and even coincided at a similar rate to placebo a lot of the time. 

here is a brief overview this from some points on Lorenzo's website (which uses clinical data to demonstrate claims). Just scroll down to the 'medical treatment' section (You may have to translate from Spanish to Portuguese or English) https://injertocapilar.com/faqs/

As stated on Lorenzo's site, a study of 1553 men over five years found the following in relation to sexual dysfunction,(one of the most commonly complained of side effects):  A Decrease in libido (1.8% in the finasteride group compared to 1.3% in those treated with placebo during the first year, in the fifth year the figures were 0.3 vs. 0 respectively).

[BLE123]

1 hour ago, JDEE0 said:

As always, it is of course best to speak to a Dr. (preferably someone knowledgable who has lots of experience with the drug, so any of the names we have given should be authority figures on the subject, but personally I feel Dr. Lorenzo's knowledge of fin is very deep so he would be good to chat to if possible). 

Having said that, there is tons of clinical data on the subject online and there is a clear medical consensus that side effects are NOT irreversible. You will indeed find anecdotes online of people claiming the opposite and speaking of 'post finasteride syndrome', but it is not a medically recognised condition in any way, and you can believe at this point it's been investigated and scrutinised heavily.

There's numerous long term placebo controlled studies out there for you to look at which all show that side effects were mild, occurred in a low percentage of users (usually below 3%), always went away upon stopping the drug and even coincided at a similar rate to placebo a lot of the time. 

here is a brief overview this from some points on Lorenzo's website (which uses clinical data to demonstrate claims). Just scroll down to the 'medical treatment' section (You may have to translate from Spanish to Portuguese or English) https://injertocapilar.com/faqs/

As stated on Lorenzo's site, a study of 1553 men over five years found the following in relation to sexual dysfunction,(one of the most commonly complained of side effects):  A Decrease in libido (1.8% in the finasteride group compared to 1.3% in those treated with placebo during the first year, in the fifth year the figures were 0.3 vs. 0 respectively).

Yet Melvin ran a poll on here and from what I recall around 50% said they had side effects, maybe HRN members are just really unlucky.

Edited September 22, 2021 by BLE123

[Melvin- Admin]

12 minutes ago, BLE123 said:

Yet Melvin ran a poll on here and from what I recall around 50% said they had side effects, maybe HRN members are just really unlucky.

It wasn’t as high as 50% but more like 35%. Personally, I feel the percentage is vastly understated in the studies performed by merck. 

[JDEE0]

53 minutes ago, BLE123 said:

Yet Melvin ran a poll on here and from what I recall around 50% said they had side effects, maybe HRN members are just really unlucky.

I'm aware a poll was run, not sure it was 50%, it might have been, but even if it was it wouldn't do much to change my mind.

I don't really understand why it's become commonplace for people to argue against highly controlled scientific data with solid methodology that has been more or less replicated with the same outcomes each time (from various different studies completely independent of each other and including thousands of patients) when it comes to finasteride. 

At the end of the day, it's nothing to do with the fin for me, it's the point of clinical studies with real robust data vs anecdotal evidence. It makes no sense to me that in actual studies that involve thousands of people, the rate is in the low single digit figures pretty much every time, but suddenly on forums this jumps by a whopping 1000+%. The whole point of these studies is to be completely unbiased and provide data, whereas forums are quite emotionally charged and have a lot of confirmation bias etc.

Either way, I don't really care to try and explain why this is the case personally, my point is that I wouldn't argue against years of study data on any drug that exists, whether it be an antibiotic, a contraceptive, a drug to treat cancer or whatever else you can think of, it has nothing to do with finasteride. Anecdotes are anecdotes, and it's fine when something has limited data, you could easily be skeptical, but when they contradict tons of scientific evidence/consensus, I don't really take any notice of it. 

Also, I'm not even referring to Merck studies - their patent ran out in 2005 or 2006 or something and there are plenty of independent studies that have been done in the past few decades since the original clinic trials that aren't tied to the company, so I don't understand where the incentive to fudge numbers would come from.

And then on the flip side of the anecdotal coin, pretty much every Dr. I've ever heard speak on the subject and asked myself personally (all highly respected ones, think Bisanga et al) have said that their experiences of the 1000's patients they've prescribed fin to encountering sides is indeed similarly in line with the data we have on the subject. So, two options that I see really: either forum members are generally wrong/misrepresentative of the general population, or, lots of esteemed Dr's lie about their experiences and most of the clinical data conducted under scientific scrutiny has basically been intentionally manipulated.

But either way, I respect everyones opinions on the subject and I do indeed think sides exist, but even let's say it is around 3 percent, that really isn't that low in the grand scheme of things - that's 30,000 out of every million who take it. It's really not that crazy that a decent amount of people come to forums and complain of sides considering this then in my opinion. Add on top  of this the people with nocebo that undoubtedly is responsible for a fair chunk of online claims over recent years, and you can probably times the amount of complaints online ten-fold.

And at the end of the day, I myself would like a reliable local, non systemic solution even though I'm fine on fin, but for now its the best we have and going by it's data it's very safe.

Edited September 22, 2021 by JDEE0

[Luismendes535]

Hey Guys, 

 

Quick update on my situation. I'm in contact with doctor Bruno Ferreira's team.

The process is ongoing but I still don't have an estimated date for surgery. Hopefully next year. Fingers crossed. 

 

In the mean time, I have been micro needling  (0,5 mm needles) once a week in the area with no hair. Minoxidil 2 times per week in the surrounding area. I didn't see results so far. 

 

I think my hairline is getting slightly worse since I post here. What do you think? 

 

Is it a good time to jump on finasteride? Do I need to get it prescribed by a dermatologist? I'm from Portugal.

 

Best

[BDK081522]

Yes, it's always a good idea to use finasteride as soon as possible to slow the progression of AA. In addition, minoxidil should be used twice per day not per week. That may be partly why you haven't noticed any benefit. However, keep in mind minoxidil usually works better in the crown than the hairline. You may get some strengthening of miniaturized hair in the hairline but don't expect full regrowth. Transplants are really the gold standard for frontal restoration.  

[Portugal25]

@Luismendes535 I congratulate you on your decision to have your surgery with a proper Doctor and in this case one of the best in Europe. 

You should really consider being on Finasteride for 6months prior to your surgery in order to stop your hairloss and strengthen your donor area (better HT results). 

Any local farmácia in Portugal will sell you Finasteride 1mg without a prescription and you can buy the cheaper “generico”. Take it 3x/week instead of everyday. 

Wish you all the best with Dr. BF 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Portugal25

[SLA]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:10 PM, JDEE0 said:

I'm aware a poll was run, not sure it was 50%, it might have been, but even if it was it wouldn't do much to change my mind.

I don't really understand why it's become commonplace for people to argue against highly controlled scientific data with solid methodology that has been more or less replicated with the same outcomes each time (from various different studies completely independent of each other and including thousands of patients) when it comes to finasteride. 

At the end of the day, it's nothing to do with the fin for me, it's the point of clinical studies with real robust data vs anecdotal evidence. It makes no sense to me that in actual studies that involve thousands of people, the rate is in the low single digit figures pretty much every time, but suddenly on forums this jumps by a whopping 1000+%. The whole point of these studies is to be completely unbiased and provide data, whereas forums are quite emotionally charged and have a lot of confirmation bias etc.

Either way, I don't really care to try and explain why this is the case personally, my point is that I wouldn't argue against years of study data on any drug that exists, whether it be an antibiotic, a contraceptive, a drug to treat cancer or whatever else you can think of, it has nothing to do with finasteride. Anecdotes are anecdotes, and it's fine when something has limited data, you could easily be skeptical, but when they contradict tons of scientific evidence/consensus, I don't really take any notice of it. 

Also, I'm not even referring to Merck studies - their patent ran out in 2005 or 2006 or something and there are plenty of independent studies that have been done in the past few decades since the original clinic trials that aren't tied to the company, so I don't understand where the incentive to fudge numbers would come from.

And then on the flip side of the anecdotal coin, pretty much every Dr. I've ever heard speak on the subject and asked myself personally (all highly respected ones, think Bisanga et al) have said that their experiences of the 1000's patients they've prescribed fin to encountering sides is indeed similarly in line with the data we have on the subject. So, two options that I see really: either forum members are generally wrong/misrepresentative of the general population, or, lots of esteemed Dr's lie about their experiences and most of the clinical data conducted under scientific scrutiny has basically been intentionally manipulated.

But either way, I respect everyones opinions on the subject and I do indeed think sides exist, but even let's say it is around 3 percent, that really isn't that low in the grand scheme of things - that's 30,000 out of every million who take it. It's really not that crazy that a decent amount of people come to forums and complain of sides considering this then in my opinion. Add on top  of this the people with nocebo that undoubtedly is responsible for a fair chunk of online claims over recent years, and you can probably times the amount of complaints online ten-fold.

And at the end of the day, I myself would like a reliable local, non systemic solution even though I'm fine on fin, but for now its the best we have and going by it's data it's very safe.

Very good points @JDEE0- It is true that people experience side effects, so I don't intend to minimize anyone's experience!

What we must remember is that the study conducted by Merck was a highly controlled studies. I believe that the study by Merck showed that 1.8% of the group which was administered finasteride reported sexual side effect, yet in the placebo group, 1.3% reported sexual side effects. I think in another study, it was shown that patients who were told by their doctor that they could have sexual side effects were some extraordinarily high percentage much more likely to experience these side effects. The number 500% more likely is coming to mind, but I really don't remember the number for certain. Our minds our powerful and protective over our well being (which is a good thing) and explains the nocebo effect. 

 

[Luismendes535]

 

Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to share these videos I came across on youtube sharing results with the clinic I was going with initially.  Not bad results I think although I don't like much the hairline shape.

EDIT (Missed the videos lol)

 

6 months:

 

12 months:

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Melvin- Moderator
Removed links do not repost

[edmribeiro]

@Luismendes535Congratulations for making two great decisions: not having a HT at Insparya and choosing Dr. Bruno Ferreira.

I can talk from experience about both and there´s not much to compare. Insparya is a money making machine who thrives on celebrities, publicity stunts and on uninformed pacients (as I was). On the other way, Dr. Bruno Ferreira is a world class professional, respected by peers, who seeks the best for his patients. 

I had my 1st hair transplant on Insparya and although it wasn´t terrible, or "life damaging", it was far from ideal and has impaired my future results/cirurgies. I was a NW5, and just one day after the cirurgy I found out that managing a limited donor area and rebuilding an entire hairline / frontal third definitely is not a work for unexperienced nurses, who make decisions 10 mins before the cirurgy, when they see you for the first time. No point in going into details but you dodged a bullet.  Just a quick example: in one in the videos you shared, the person who´s giving the consultation is not even a doctor. And they say there´s no need for finasteride or minoxidil (when clearly the patient still has lot of native hair that can be lost), praysing mesotherapy as the best Hair loss treatment. Maybe because they sell sessions of it in the clinic? Maybe...

I can´t talk about my results of my 2nd HT, this time with Dr. Bruno Ferreira, because only 3 months have passed, but everything was different. The planning, the the amount of detail and decision making on pair with the patient, even the recovery process. In HT there are no guarantees, but choosing a great doctor gives you way more chances of success.

 

Good luck with everything, we will wait for good news!

Edited November 23, 2021 by edmribeiro