Dr. Patrick Mwamba (Fue Clinic) - Over 9,000 grafts - 24th & 25th of May 2021

[captaincalico]

Hmm I’m not entirely sure … I gather the derma roller does a similar thing to what injections would ? As far as wearing gloves whilst applying could you tell me the reasons why ? Something I should be concerned about ? I was under the impression dut had a lot less risk than minoxidil or finasteride this is why I chose it 

[captaincalico]

I have been applying topical dut and haven’t noticed any sides so far 

[JDEE0]

I don't know if gloves would be necessary, maybe, I would just wash my hands right after, more so to ensure that when I leave my house I don't touch stuff out in the world and inadvertently expose random people to Dutasteride than for systemic absorption reasons.

In general though to your point, Dutasteride is essentially a far more potent form of Finasteride. It does the exact same thing except it blocks both isoforms of the 5 alpha reductase enzyme (type 1 and 2 instead of just type 2). In fact, Dutasteride is up to 5 times more effective at blocking type 2 5AR than Finasteride, and up to 100 times more effective at blocking type 1 (mainly because fin doesn't really block type 1 at all, only 2). 

Minoxidil is in a completely different category of drugs - it's a potassium channel opener - and isn't even comparable to be able to assess risk between it and Fin/Dut. But, it is speculated, and it must be emphasised that at this point it is only speculation no matter what anyone says, that Dutasteride topically applied (as you are using it) has less risk of sides than Finasteride due to its heavy molecular weight that makes it difficult to go systemic and mostly acting locally in the hair follicles AR. 

That's why you've been told/believe it's less 'risky', not because Dutasteride is generally a less risky drug than finasteride, they both carry a similar side effect profile and prevalence according to studies and research although on paper Dutasteride would be more 'risky' (not that I believe either are genuine risks at the end of the day as you can just stop if you experience sides and either adjust or move on and be fine).

For what it's worth, from the anecdotal reports of users I've seen online and their bloodwork etc, it does seem that it goes minimally systemic compared to oral, I can't be sure this is true of course, the bigger issue for me is: does it actually work to prevent hair loss? I don't know. No real data exists to say one way or the other. 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by JDEE0

[mustang]

7 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

It is supposed to be injected officially really, but you can essentially DIY it via the use of derma-rolling which is what this one from Mwamba is intended for. 

Not sure how much/if this would negatively affect the results or not, but I assume it would probably be more effective to inject it. 

 Injections are made at 3mm and most clinics in Europe do it with a Dermapen from 0.5mm to 2.5mm 

 

 

[mustang]

4 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

I don't know if gloves would be necessary, maybe, I would just wash my hands right after, more so to ensure that when I leave my house I don't touch stuff out in the world and inadvertently expose random people to Dutasteride than for systemic absorption reasons.

In general though to your point, Dutasteride is essentially a far more potent form of Finasteride. It does the exact same thing except it blocks both isoforms of the 5 alpha reductase enzyme (type 1 and 2 instead of just type 2). In fact, Dutasteride is up to 5 times more effective at blocking type 2 5AR than Finasteride, and up to 100 times more effective at blocking type 1 (mainly because fin doesn't really block type 1 at all, only 2). 

Minoxidil is in a completely different category of drugs - it's a potassium channel opener - and isn't even comparable to be able to assess risk between it and Fin/Dut. But, it is speculated, and it must be emphasised that at this point it is only speculation no matter what anyone says, that Dutasteride topically applied (as you are using it) has less risk of sides than Finasteride due to its heavy molecular weight that makes it difficult to go systemic and mostly acting locally in the hair follicles AR. 

That's why you've been told/believe it's less 'risky', not because Dutasteride is generally a less risky drug than finasteride, they both carry a similar side effect profile and prevalence according to studies and research although on paper Dutasteride would be more 'risky' (not that I believe either are genuine risks at the end of the day as you can just stop if you experience sides and either adjust or move on and be fine).

For what it's worth, from the anecdotal reports of users I've seen online and their bloodwork etc, it does seem that it goes minimally systemic compared to oral, I can't be sure this is true of course, the bigger issue for me is: does it actually work to prevent hair loss? I don't know. No real data exists to say one way or the other. 

 

 

 

More important than the molecular weight is first pass avoidance when used topically. 

 

 

[Raphael84]

Hi Melvin

The treatment of mesotheraphy and dutasteride that we perform at the clinic is injected along with PRP.

I don’t know the specific products in the photos but it would appear that these products are topical formulations of such treatments much like a compound of topical Finasteride.

[JDEE0]

14 hours ago, mustang said:

More important than the molecular weight is first pass avoidance when used topically. 

 

 

Yeah, fair point and true. I think it's a good option to have anyways and have been loosely following the thread on HLT where it seems people are enjoying it's use which is good of course

[JDEE0]

6 hours ago, Raphael84 said:

Hi Melvin

The treatment of mesotheraphy and dutasteride that we perform at the clinic is injected along with PRP.

I don’t know the specific products in the photos but it would appear that these products are topical formulations of such treatments much like a compound of topical Finasteride.

One is a topical dutasteride compound much like topical fin, but the other is intended as a mesotherapy treatment like BHR offer, except this one is meant to be used with a derma pen at home as mustang states above as opposed to an injection with a needle.

[mustang]

Just now, JDEE0 said:

One is a topical dutasteride compound much like topical fin, but the other is intended as a mesotherapy treatment like BHR offer, except this one is meant to be used with a derma pen at home as mustang states above as opposed to an injection with a needle.

Yes, it's not for injection but dermapen. 

The same formula is used at the clinic for Mesotherapy but at 2.0 mm's depth (with numbing) after PRP. I guess each clinic has their own protocol. 

Dermarolling the entire scalp at this depth is certainly beneficial as to stimulate growth factors.

 

[Curious25]

14 hours ago, mustang said:

More important than the molecular weight is first pass avoidance when used topically. 

 

 

What is first pass avoidance ? 

[londonhairlossvictim]

So you only apply RED DUT 3 days a week? At what time and how? Do you like rub it in or massage it into the whole scalp area?

And then the GREEN MESO you do it once a week with a derma roller? Again do you mind explaining the method for me

[mustang]

10 hours ago, Curious25 said:

What is first pass avoidance ? 

It's when the drug doesn't pass through the liver. On oral administration a drug has through the liver before reaching systemic circulation. 

Alternative routes of administration such as transdermal avoid the first-pass effect, same with mesotherapy.

 

[captaincalico]

Loads of great feedback guys thank you all !! I will be posting a YouTube video a little derma roller tutorial … I will post the link on here ! Here’s a recent pic ! For the first time in over 10 years I have a hairline !! 

[Britanium]

@captaincalicoWoweewawa ! 😂 This is coming on really strong 💪 

[Curious25]

Awesome! How many months now? And please now just . . Let it grow, let it growwwwww 😂

[mustang]

It will be 4 months this coming week right?

Man that's awesome

[londonhairlossvictim]

11 hours ago, captaincalico said:

Loads of great feedback guys thank you all !! I will be posting a YouTube video a little derma roller tutorial … I will post the link on here ! Here’s a recent pic ! For the first time in over 10 years I have a hairline !! 

This would be really appreciated, I have the dermapen havn't used it yet waiting for scalp to recover a bit after my FUE - a youtube on how to use it would be great. The current videos people do they are not really clear. Can you say how you clean it also before and after etc. The whole process in a short brief way would be awesome.

[captaincalico]

Yep it will be very short and to the point …. I will clean my hair as normal … with caffeine shampoo… while doing this is will soak the derma roller in 70% alcohol to sterilise then rinse off with water …. I will only be derma rolling the native hair to regrow as much as possible before 2nd surgery! I wouldn’t advise derma rolling transplanted hair 

[captaincalico]

Yes it is coming up to 4 months … in two days time haha …  two more days to grow a couple more hairs ! I shall be leaving it to grow upto my next surgery ! Which is a few more months away yet!!! Very excited to see how much hair has grown and regrown by then 

[londonhairlossvictim]

1 minute ago, captaincalico said:

Yes it is coming up to 4 months … in two days time haha …  two more days to grow a couple more hairs ! I shall be leaving it to grow upto my next surgery ! Which is a few more months away yet!!! Very excited to see how much hair has grown and regrown by then 

Why are you doing a second surgery? For the crown? Why didn't you do it all in one go at the start? (Just wondering)

[londonhairlossvictim]

4 minutes ago, captaincalico said:

Yep it will be very short and to the point …. I will clean my hair as normal … with caffeine shampoo… while doing this is will soak the derma roller in 70% alcohol to sterilise then rinse off with water …. I will only be derma rolling the native hair to regrow as much as possible before 2nd surgery! I wouldn’t advise derma rolling transplanted hair 

Are you using Nizoral or another Caffeine one?

[Curious25]

Nice man … when is your next surgery, and how many grafts are you going for? 

[captaincalico]

Just a cheap standard caffeine shampoo to be honest …. Because I want to see how the dut mesotherapy works out for the crown area …. Which may lead to less grafts being used … which then can be used to fill the front up even more if I choose to do so

[captaincalico]

Maybe another 2000 I was a Norwood 5 so around 5500 is adequate I’d say to cover such an area 

[londonhairlossvictim]

16 minutes ago, captaincalico said:

Just a cheap standard caffeine shampoo to be honest …. Because I want to see how the dut mesotherapy works out for the crown area …. Which may lead to less grafts being used … which then can be used to fill the front up even more if I choose to do so

Nice that is a smart approach for sure. Nothing better than trying to recover natural methods. I am going to do the same as you, I've ordered DUT MESO and when it arrives will focus on the crown so hopefully in 1 years time it's better and I won't need to feel I need to fill it in - or if it isn't then of course might have to!