My journey at HLC (Ankara). 3100 grafts

[Melvin- Admin]

I’m not sure what you guys expect to see when you shave down to a zero? You’re removing thousands of grafts, the scars will be evident. Its not like there’s a surgeon with a magic tool that gets no scars. I think the result looks great and the donor as expected when shaving. 

[EvansLawrence]

21 hours ago, massman said:

You're not right in being a perfectionist. If you went into this expecting to come out with the same luscious hairline you had as a 16 year old after one HT then you were always going to be disappointed. It's 99% certain that you're not going to get the same look and density you had pre hairloss.

You're also still only at 8 months, and from your pictures I see notable improvements from month 5. Give it until month 12 and see how you look then.

Being a perfectionist myself I know the mental turmoil of obsessively looking at details, so I do empathise with you. But with this you just have to understand the parameters of what's possible and adjust your expectations accordingly. It's hard to do, but it'll make you feel a a whole lot better.

Ofc im in my right to be perfectionist!. And actually I believe is bettee now than when I was 16 since I always has big forehead and entrances. But I see the area they covered looks small for 3150 grafts

[EvansLawrence]

1 hour ago, 5BetaReductase said:

@EvansLawrencewhich doctor at hlc did your extractions?

Umut and Cengiz

[Melvin- Admin]

7 hours ago, Andrei said:

You look good, you know my photos, i look very worse, my donor was distroyed by hlc and the survival  from recipient was very poor, poor density. Dr umut  made a very poor work and overharvested a side very badly. I do not recomand HLC to nobody!

If you have a poor result please create your own thread. Provide before and after photos. Please do not post this on other people’s journeys. 

[MachoVato]

I'm sorry you feel this way, friend. Really. What I see is an excellent transplant, especially for under 8 months. Donor area is exactly what it should look like. Although that picture looks to be from a different time, since you are not shaved in the front photos.

Could it be more dense? Sure, we ALL say that.
Should it cover more area for 3100 grafts? I am not sure of that.

There's nothing wrong with chasing perfection, but having realistic expectations is also needed. I hope you find the results you are looking for with a second transplant. 

[Mycroft]

It may just be the low photo quality disguising your concerns, but this looks like a pretty solid result unless you've got some multis in the hairline that I can't see because of the blur.

[Hairtroubles]

On 7/6/2021 at 12:17 PM, Andrei said:

You look now very good, i do not think that something will change after 8 months, at me nothing changed after 6 months. Hlc like to make dense packing and is a good thing but not always.

The biggest problems at hlc is the survival rate wich is not soo good, this is my opinion from my experience. At me they also implated with high density but that density is not in my head. I will go in november at dr Bruno Ferreira in Portugal to make a live consultation to see if i can improve my situation my donor is almost empy...:(

May I ask, what does survival rate mean when it comes to hair and why is it poor with HLC?

[JDEE0]

10 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

May I ask, what does survival rate mean when it comes to hair and why is it poor with HLC?

It means how many of the implanted grafts actually grow and survive. If you have 3000 grafts for example, a 95% survival rate would mean that 2850 of those did end up sprouting hairs whilst 150 didn't. 

It's obviously very hard to accurately say, but a good guess can be made by looking at a fully mature result under magnification.

As for why it's not good with HLC, this is just what this one poster says, they're regarded to be a very good clinic by most here, one of the most important factors of which is of course having the grafts survive in the first place.

[Hairtroubles]

5 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

It means how many of the implanted grafts actually grow and survive. If you have 3000 grafts for example, a 95% survival rate would mean that 2850 of those did end up sprouting hairs whilst 150 didn't. 

It's obviously very hard to accurately say, but a good guess can be made by looking at a fully mature result under magnification.

As for why it's not good with HLC, this is just what this one poster says, they're regarded to be a very good clinic by most here, one of the most important factors of which is of course having the grafts survive in the first place.

Thanks for that man, just private messaged you as I don't want to take the focus of this thread.  Thanks!

[JDEE0]

11 minutes ago, Andrei said:

In my case at hlc from my opinion half of the implated grafts survived and half died, i had 3200 grafts implanted, 1600 grafts died.

I mean, maybe that is the case, happens sometimes to all clinics. Issue is that you say they destroyed your donor etc, yet you won't post any pictures of your results as evidence. 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Andrei said:

In my case at hlc from my opinion half of the implated grafts survived and half died, i had 3200 grafts implanted, 1600 grafts died.

This will be my last warning. Stop derailing this thread. If you have complaints, create your own thread and post pictures. 

[EvansLawrence]

3 hours ago, Andrei said:

I can not post a photo here maybe i will start a new topic, melvin saw my photos in private.

EvansLawarance you have a great results sincerly, don't worry. I saw at  hlc Dr Cengiz have the best results.

Yes you should man. Cause everyone has HLC as the elite of hair transplant and in my opinion they are not. Show ur case, put the pics you have showed me plus ones from the clinic if you have. 

In ur case, imo, being a difuse they should have let y do medical treatment before at least 6 or 9 months.

[EvansLawrence]

On 10/8/2021 at 11:26 PM, MachoVato said:

I'm sorry you feel this way, friend. Really. What I see is an excellent transplant, especially for under 8 months. Donor area is exactly what it should look like. Although that picture looks to be from a different time, since you are not shaved in the front photos.

Could it be more dense? Sure, we ALL say that.
Should it cover more area for 3100 grafts? I am not sure of that.

There's nothing wrong with chasing perfection, but having realistic expectations is also needed. I hope you find the results you are looking for with a second transplant. 

Thanks man. I believe this is an excellent coment and I agree with it. 

The thing is that if we, for example, take a look at this video: 

that makes us believe that we can reach a great area with just 4000 grfs. I believe my alopecia before was less agressive than this guy's. And with almost 3200 i should have got at least my temples lower and more closed. In the email they said between 2600 and 3000. 

Maybe my growth is fine by month 8 but im sure that other doctors would have done more with those 3200 grafts. 

As I said. This is my opinion and personal feeling. Im in my right to expres it as well as you are all right to disagree.

 

[massman]

10 minutes ago, EvansLawrence said:

Thanks man. I believe this is an excellent coment and I agree with it. 

The thing is that if we, for example, take a look at this video: 

that makes us believe that we can reach a great area with just 4000 grfs. I believe my alopecia before was less agressive than this guy's. And with almost 3200 i should have got at least my temples lower and more closed. In the email they said between 2600 and 3000. 

Maybe my growth is fine by month 8 but im sure that other doctors would have done more with those 3200 grafts. 

As I said. This is my opinion and personal feeling. Im in my right to expres it as well as you are all right to disagree.

 

There's a reason this video has so many views. It's an exceptional result. Doesn't mean every HLC result will be equal to it. Ultimately, everyone is going to have a different result based on a set of factors unique to each individual and nobody can know how they're going to respond to a transplant until they have one. You may have thicker hair than this guy, a better donor region, better everything. But maybe he just responded better through pure genetic luck

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. But the fact is you've only just hit month 8. While this doesn't invalidate your opinion, it does weaken it. It's like a developer being pissed that their house looks like shit because the roof isn't on yet. You have to wait until the house is actually finished before passing judgement.

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, Andrei said:

I can not post a photo here maybe i will start a new topic, melvin saw my photos in private.

EvansLawarance you have a great results sincerly, don't worry. I saw at  hlc Dr Cengiz have the best results.

Yes create your own thread and post your story and pictures there. I look forward to seeing your results and hearing your story.

[Kaya]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:26 AM, massman said:

There's a reason this video has so many views. It's an exceptional result. Doesn't mean every HLC result will be equal to it. Ultimately, everyone is going to have a different result based on a set of factors unique to each individual and nobody can know how they're going to respond to a transplant until they have one. You may have thicker hair than this guy, a better donor region, better everything. But maybe he just responded better through pure genetic luck

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. But the fact is you've only just hit month 8. While this doesn't invalidate your opinion, it does weaken it. It's like a developer being pissed that their house looks like shit because the roof isn't on yet. You have to wait until the house is actually finished before passing judgement.

Just saw the video. I love HLC. They did a great job on this patient; especially on the hairline. However, I cannot say the same thing for the temples. I don't know if the patient asked for very aggressive temples or it was HLC's decision but it came with a price apparently. It is really hard to make a natural looking temple because of the temple hair calibers being finer. For educated eyes, this is super easy to tell:

Edited October 14, 2021 by Kaya

[massman]

15 minutes ago, Kaya said:

Just saw the video. I love HLC. They did a great job on this patient; especially on the hairline. However, I cannot say the same thing for the temples. I don't know if the patient asked for very aggressive temples or it was HLC's decision but it came with a price apparently. It is really hard to make a natural looking temple because of the temple hair calibers being finer. For educated eyes, this is super easy to tell:

Yeah, I'd noticed this as well. Temples are undoubtedly extremely difficult to get right because of the reason you mentioned, plus those very fine hairs are often unique to that region so trying to recreate the natural look is super tricky. Especially with hairs from the back of the head, which are typically thicker and darker than other hairs. It's why I'm still undecided on whether or not to get my temples done when I go for my transplant!

[JDEE0]

18 minutes ago, massman said:

Yeah, I'd noticed this as well. Temples are undoubtedly extremely difficult to get right because of the reason you mentioned, plus those very fine hairs are often unique to that region so trying to recreate the natural look is super tricky. Especially with hairs from the back of the head, which are typically thicker and darker than other hairs. It's why I'm still undecided on whether or not to get my temples done when I go for my transplant!

I'm in a similar boat of not knowing whether to do anything to mine.

I think the simple truth is that temples done right look amazing when the hair is fairly long on the sides, maybe a guard 5 or above, but when it's short its almost always visible. I've seen very few cases of shorter sides involving temple work where I can barely tell and I think they're just lucky to have their finest donor hairs match the calibre of their temple hairs closely. 

[MachoVato]

3 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

I'm in a similar boat of not knowing whether to do anything to mine.

I think the simple truth is that temples done right look amazing when the hair is fairly long on the sides, maybe a guard 5 or above, but when it's short its almost always visible. I've seen very few cases of shorter sides involving temple work where I can barely tell and I think they're just lucky to have their finest donor hairs match the calibre of their temple hairs closely. 

Yes, this is why Bisanga pulled hairs from around my ear and lower neck for my temples, which are finer in caliber. He was very selective about these grafts. I think Mwamba has shown evidence of using hair from the nape of the neck, too.

[massman]

3 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

I'm in a similar boat of not knowing whether to do anything to mine.

I think the simple truth is that temples done right look amazing when the hair is fairly long on the sides, maybe a guard 5 or above, but when it's short its almost always visible. I've seen very few cases of shorter sides involving temple work where I can barely tell and I think they're just lucky to have their finest donor hairs match the calibre of their temple hairs closely. 

Bang on. So it really depends on how you think you're going to want to style your hair. Longer styles and you're golden but anything short, and especially in the case of a skin fade like this guy had, you're gonna see it. I'm not too keen on skin fades these days so I think I'm going to go for it in the end. Especially because my temple recession is uneven (worse on one side) so it's completely lopsided my face.

[massman]

4 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

Yes, this is why Bisanga pulled hairs from around my ear and lower neck for my temples, which are finer in caliber. He was very selective about these grafts. I think Mwamba has shown evidence of using hair from the nape of the neck, too.

Makes sense as they're hairs following the same line/region that the temple hairs are on. I've read that some surgeons can be reticent to use these hairs because they're more prone to loss than the 'safe zone' in the back. I guess it's about finding that balance of artistry and longevity.

[MachoVato]

1 minute ago, massman said:

Makes sense as they're hairs following the same line/region that the temple hairs are on. I've read that some surgeons can be reticent to use these hairs because they're more prone to loss than the 'safe zone' in the back. I guess it's about finding that balance of artistry and longevity.

Absolutely. I'm 50 years old and on meds, so there's high confidence that those hairs are mostly good. 

I also agree that longer hair in the temples will look best. My work was minor so it should be a non issue.

[JDEE0]

11 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

Yes, this is why Bisanga pulled hairs from around my ear and lower neck for my temples, which are finer in caliber. He was very selective about these grafts. I think Mwamba has shown evidence of using hair from the nape of the neck, too.

Yeah, I think yours will look good anyway even at short lengths as you've not only had Bisanga who is acutely aware of this fact, but you had a very conservative placement too, which I generally think is the only way to have temples done and have it be fairly undetectable at short lengths 

[JDEE0]

10 minutes ago, massman said:

Bang on. So it really depends on how you think you're going to want to style your hair. Longer styles and you're golden but anything short, and especially in the case of a skin fade like this guy had, you're gonna see it. I'm not too keen on skin fades these days so I think I'm going to go for it in the end. Especially because my temple recession is uneven (worse on one side) so it's completely lopsided my face.

Yeah, probably also on the calibre of your hair too. If you have super coarse hair, it might be hard to find singles fine enough even in the nape, above the ear etc. Obviously you need to also go to a doc who knows what they're doing for it to work at all, but look at Couto's results on YouTube for example, he seems to do many of cases with new temple points and they always have a bit of length to their sides and back when they come in for the follow up video he posts. Granted he's one of the best, but they always look spot on in these longer haired examples.

[EvansLawrence]

month 10

 

ok! So far not much improvement. I have added the oral minoxidil to the treatment (so far 1mg finasteride + topical minoxidil 5% + oral minoxidil).

At month 10 I can say I am dissapointed with the clinic. I am awared of that some people here dont share my feeling but thats ok. Im not looking for understanding either. I just feel that I can be demanding to a clinic that claims to be that high quality as HLC and that costs that much.

I have been patient with my left side (the one done by Dr. Umut, which has poor density) but still it hasnt improved that much. My hair is longer, but the result its still mediocre for a clinic that is supposed to be as good as HLC. I have paid about 8000€ after all.

At this point I have written to the clinic and also sent some pics of specially this area, since I am unhappy, and I hope we can get into an agreement in returning at least partially some money, since so far the clinic doesnt give me confidence enough for a second procedure. 

My reparation is expected to happen in Spain with dra. Cotellessa. She saw me last week and told me that we will need at least 1000 grafts to cover the lack of density that HLC was unable to fulfill. And then other 1500 grafts if I want to lower a bit the line and close good my temples.

Yes. I regret going to HLC although i am also awared that my case is not a disaster. And that the hairline looks natural.

 

I know that people like to see happy patients but I preffer to show honesty. And I dont care about other cases of the clinic. I care about mine.

 

And about those coments who suggest to be realistic: yes. For me being realistic is that if a clinic that works on 50 grafts/cm2 in order to do "dense packing" that then I will have a dense hair surface. Which so far I dont, specially by the left side worked but dr. Umut. And at month 10 I doubt it will improve what it hasnt improved in the last 3 months.

Edited December 16, 2021 by EvansLawrence