Considering A Chest To Scalp Transplant

[DonnyJ]

After 2 larger (2500-3000 grafts per) transplants resulted in minimal growth with another well-known surgeon, I very smartly went to Dr. Konior. We performed 2 smaller (300-500 grafts) sessions and I got noticeable growth from them, which I'm very pleased with.

That said, I'm now at the point where I desire to have another procedure, but I wouldn't feel very comfortable with taking more hair from the sides of my head without feeling over-harvested.

My beard hair texture is nothing like that of my scalp, however, my chest hair seems to be a fairly close/closest match.

I'm considering doing a 2,000 graft strictly-chest session. I've been searching high and low and haven't found many examples of a pure chest->scalp procedure to get a better understanding of expected results (I've only been able to stir up mixed-recipient txps)

Given the recipient type/location, I'm slightly hesitant due to lack of knowledge & the commonality of it. My crown is visually the weakest area, but I'd want the rest of the scalp to be assessed to disperse the grafts appropriately as to not have to go through another txp again after this.

Any advice / examples would be wonderful.


Harsh light photo attached
 

[Melvin- Admin]

How old are you? The loss is minimal, you should probably try medication before using beard hair.

[DonnyJ]

1 hour ago, transplantedphil said:

not an expert but chest hair is usually fine and the crown usually requires thicker grafts to get good coverage. so even with a lot of chest hair grafts you might be disappointed. If you could live with the beard hair there (despite the different texture) it might visually be the better approach. But ultimately nobody can really tell what to do because its all going to come down to your donor. What does DrK say?

harsh lights are never the best way to analyse a situation but i think i can see your concerns. might be better/easier to stick with toppik or dermatch. 

@mustang and @BeHappy have done body hair restoration work so might know more, or you could check out the threads.

From what I've seen, the curls of beard hair never fully goes away and is pretty distinguishable when using a large amount.  My chest hair is fairly straight & non-coarse (aligning with my natural scalp hair), which is why it's a more-attractive option from my perspective.  That said, I'm def not an expert either, and I'm sure there's more to consider outside of "it looks similar to my scalp hair".

Dr.K seems onboard with the approach.  Unclear if it's because it's close to my last resort, or if it would still be viable if that weren't the case.  I'm aware that I have at least some transplanted hairs in the crown, and from discussions with him, it's typically preferred to blend scalp w/ non-scalp...this may be why there isn't a red flag with the approach.

Agreed on the harsh lighting, but seeing it at it's worst is a pretty good indication of where it may be headed longer-term.  Attached is an add'l shot where the sun wasn't hitting it as directly.  I know my hair is "passable" (in my opinion - which is all that matters tbh..but it's also border-line) in it's current state, but I also have concerns of not knowing exactly how many of the frontal/mid sections are also txps at this point and don't want to have a very uneven look across my scalp in 10 years...trying to plan long-term/accordingly.

[DonnyJ]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

How old are you? The loss is minimal, you should probably try medication before using beard hair.

I'm in my late 30's.  Started fin/min ~12 years ago.  Had some wicked mental issues (brain fog, etc.) on fin and had to take large gaps off, but I believe I have my doses/frequency figured out for what works for me w/o sides at this point: .25mg fin 4x's/week, 5mg loniten (oral)/daily

Edited September 25, 2020 by DonnyJ

[aaron1234]

Would you happen to have pre-op pics before you underwent any of your transplants? Also, would love to see your donor area.  From the looks of it, Dr. K won't need 2K grafts to substantially improve your crown. Were your transplants FUE or FUT?

[DonnyJ]

2 hours ago, aaron1234 said:

Would you happen to have pre-op pics before you underwent any of your transplants? Also, would love to see your donor area.  From the looks of it, Dr. K won't need 2K grafts to substantially improve your crown. Were your transplants FUE or FUT?

all procedures have been FUE.  Regarding the 2k grafts, keep in mind that it will likely not strictly be crown (though, crown is the most obvious area at a glance rn) + as far as I'm aware, 2,000 grafts may only be ~3000 hairs at lower growth rate for chest hairs (?)

pre-fin, 10-years ago:

post-fin a couple years later:

 

pre-op 1:

i don't have any great post-op #1 (2500 grafts - full scalp) or pre-op #2 photos, but suffice to say it wasn't great..

10-month post-op #2 (2100 grafts):

 

15 months post-op #2:

 

pre-op #3:

post-op #3 (350 grafts to crown):

 

op #4 (350 grafts to frontal...i finally got better at taking before/after photos here)

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by DonnyJ

[DonnyJ]

also worth noting, i have a visibly weak spot in the mid-frontal region today which becomes apparent when floating hair back:

 

[DonnyJ]

chest hair (not great lighting on photos w/o flash):

 

 

beard hair:

Edited September 25, 2020 by DonnyJ

[Melvin- Admin]

The color and quality of your chest and beard is vastly different than your scalp. Given the small area I would recommend either a small FUE or hair fibers. 

[1978matt]

15 hours ago, DonnyJ said:

From what I've seen, the curls of beard hair never fully goes away and is pretty distinguishable when using a large amount.  My chest hair is fairly straight & non-coarse (aligning with my natural scalp hair), which is why it's a more-attractive option from my perspective.  That said, I'm def not an expert either, and I'm sure there's more to consider outside of "it looks similar to my scalp hair".

Dr.K seems onboard with the approach.  Unclear if it's because it's close to my last resort, or if it would still be viable if that weren't the case.  I'm aware that I have at least some transplanted hairs in the crown, and from discussions with him, it's typically preferred to blend scalp w/ non-scalp...this may be why there isn't a red flag with the approach.

Agreed on the harsh lighting, but seeing it at it's worst is a pretty good indication of where it may be headed longer-term.  Attached is an add'l shot where the sun wasn't hitting it as directly.  I know my hair is "passable" (in my opinion - which is all that matters tbh..but it's also border-line) in it's current state, but I also have concerns of not knowing exactly how many of the frontal/mid sections are also txps at this point and don't want to have a very uneven look across my scalp in 10 years...trying to plan long-term/accordingly.

That looks uncannily like my own hair, at least before the crown work I had in January this year.

I guess FUT is out of the question, or unlikely to yield significant grafts?

Chest hair might look ok as a filler.  Maybe you could use both.  350 scalp and 350 chest or something.

Edited September 25, 2020 by 1978matt

[Gatsby]

I'm no expert however my worry would be how many of those chest hairs transplanted would grow? Body hair has historically been explored and found to have a lower success rate. My humble opinion would be to stick with what you have if you can live with it (and it looks VERY good and natural). Or consider a lower yield of combined beard and scalp donor hair. When you look at Eugenix, mixing beard hair with scalp hair is an art. Keep researching and I wish you all the best.

[DonnyJ]

13 hours ago, 1978matt said:

That looks uncannily like my own hair, at least before the crown work I had in January this year.

I guess FUT is out of the question, or unlikely to yield significant grafts?

Chest hair might look ok as a filler.  Maybe you could use both.  350 scalp and 350 chest or something.

Just took a look at your journey...you've had some AMAZING results.  I get jealous every time I see someone with results like yours.  Well done!

350/350 may be a viable option.  I'll need to compromise in some way -- whether that means dipping further into the sides of my head, rolling the dice w/ chest hairs, or accepting thinness... my REAL concern is that I don't know how much growth may/may not be on my scalp from my first 2 procedures.  I know it wasn't great (and I get angry every time I think about it, but am also grateful for what I have today). That unknown could mean some not-so-great aesthetics down the line though.

14 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

The color and quality of your chest and beard is vastly different than your scalp. Given the small area I would recommend either a small FUE or hair fibers. 

I wish I had some better photos (I've since shaved my chest)...depending on the light, my scalp is border-line black at times, but it's also gotten a lot lighter due to sun exposure over the summer.  At the time, I took hairs from my beard, chest, & scalp and put them side-by-side... beard was clearly curly + thick + coarse + darker; chest was straight + *slightly* thinner than scalp + correct texture + same color.  I'm not trying to trick myself/you into thinking it's something it's not -- I just really wish I had better photos.  May have to grow out the chest hairs again.

 

3 hours ago, Gatsby said:

I'm no expert however my worry would be how many of those chest hairs transplanted would grow? Body hair has historically been explored and found to have a lower success rate. My humble opinion would be to stick with what you have if you can live with it (and it looks VERY good and natural). Or consider a lower yield of combined beard and scalp donor hair. When you look at Eugenix, mixing beard hair with scalp hair is an art. Keep researching and I wish you all the best.

Valid concern.  Body hair typically has about 50% of the follicles to be in an active growth phase at any given time.  Scalp hair is 90%.  Also worth noting: chest hair typically is a lot of 1's, and some 2's (versus 1's, 2's, 3's, & 4's that scalp follicles house).  I believe (??) this is the reason why @transplantedphil said that chest hairs typically aren't the best candidates for crown (though, this may also be due to the sheer nature of chest hairs being thinner)

[DonnyJ]

i'm unsure what's typical, but fwiw, i found another chest photo with short stubbs and it looks like I have a pretty decent number of 2's...I'm torn.  I'd like to see Dr.K in-person, but current climate makes that difficult.

 

[Gabreille Nelson Mukhia]

Chest hair will have very low survival rates. You can also forego another procedure. It looka fine according to me. Finasteride intake could help further. 

[DonnyJ]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:14 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

I would recommend either a small FUE or hair fibers. 

 

did a full gamut of photos (wet/dry sunlight/flash/no-flash) yesterday and the repeat pattern I noticed was the thinning in mid-scalp.  This terrifies me like crazy because it would be pretty bad if i end up with frontal, no mid, bridge, no crown.  I really need to plan accordingly and I believe that the only way to do so is to have an in-depth evaluation to determine where I have txp hair vs non-txp hairs today.  I'm pretty scared knowing that my donor capacity is running on fumes tbh.  A small FUE (300-500) could be the way, potentially combined w/ chest (even if the transection rate is much higher), but I *really* need to plan for the future.

[1978matt]

Any pictures of your donor?

Hair in the front half looks like 100% transplant.  In the crown I cant tell but would guess 25%.

[1978matt]

28 minutes ago, transplantedphil said:

You can tell by sight? Can i send you my pics lol

You can tell from the way the hair flows forward as most docs use this pattern, as does mine. Plus, a lot of native hairs aren't going to survive a ton of incisions in that area.

Without any HTs it looks like a solid NW5.

Maybe some grafts between the blue and green line, but Donny would obviously know if any were put in that region.

Edited September 27, 2020 by 1978matt

[DonnyJ]

1 hour ago, 1978matt said:

Any pictures of your donor?

 

[DonnyJ]

1 hour ago, 1978matt said:

Maybe some grafts between the blue and green line, but Donny would obviously know if any were put in that region.

 

proc 1:

no bridge

1k frontal

few hundred crown

few hundred between your blue and green line + mid-scalp

 

proc2:

no bridge

1200 frontal

800 crown -> area between your blue and green line

 

proc3:

350 crown

 

proc4:

350 frontal

 

 

it's not exactly clear what my growth yield was from proc 1 & proc 2, but i ultimately ended not where I should have been at that point. imo, I got more from konior's 2 small procedures than I did from the other 2 large ones.  i'm not sure the policy on calling out surgeons by name on here, but the first one was from a pretty highly regarded surgeon...i [thought i] did my homework heading into it.

Edited September 27, 2020 by DonnyJ

[1978matt]

As phil says that's pretty maxxed out.  Probably 1000 left at most.

I saw the name of your 1st surgeon the other day.  It depends when you had the FUE's as the tools available have improved a lot the last 5 years.  Things were a lot more hit and miss prior to 2015.

[DonnyJ]

5 minutes ago, transplantedphil said:

growth cant be guaranteed from a surgeon, no matter how highly regarded they are. Some clinics are known to offer some sort of guarantee and would be willing to offer some kind of refund to avoid the naming and shaming, but its very much what youve negotiated with them

so approx 2600 frontal + 1300 crown and the rest sort of unknown. Seems like you might want to tackle a bit of the midscalp

No doubt.  And the 2nd procedure was performed at a nicely reduced rate (essentially subtracting the cost of what they agreed should have been the expected growth from the initial procedure).  In that sense, they handled the post-op situation well, but obviously I'm not overly happy with the final results.  We didn't chat about a 2nd refund.

[DonnyJ]

2 minutes ago, 1978matt said:

As phil says that's pretty maxxed out.  Probably 1000 left at most.

I saw the name of your 1st surgeon the other day.  It depends when you had the FUE's as the tools available have improved a lot the last 5 years.  Things were a lot more hit and miss prior to 2015.

early 2015, then late 2016 🤷‍♂️

 

EDIT: you think I still have 1k left?

Edited September 27, 2020 by DonnyJ

[DonnyJ]

2 minutes ago, transplantedphil said:

if you did a homogenous depletion probably 1k.

the donor thins over time though so you always want to leave yourself a little wriggle room before going all in, otherwise youre having to consider further transplants just so it remains normal looking as well

Mind defining homogenous depletion?  I've seen the term tossed around a few times here now, but not 100p on what this means.

[giegnosiganoe]

5 hours ago, 1978matt said:

You can tell from the way the hair flows forward as most docs use this pattern, as does mine.

Could you elaborate on this? Do transplanted hairs normally have a different angle/direction compared to native hairs?

[DonnyJ]

19 minutes ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Could you elaborate on this? Do transplanted hairs normally have a different angle/direction compared to native hairs?

curious about this as well, but also want to provide some add'l context on the photo: this was wet + i combed everything vertically "up" + was in direct sunlight (basically: the worst of the worst of the worst for a photo op..which was the intention)

i believe that the other 2 photos in that post were not wet or spiked up though.

Edited September 28, 2020 by DonnyJ