The Best Transplant Results I have ever seen, is this legit?

[Melvin- Admin]

4 minutes ago, JohnBob said:

@Melvin-ModeratorThose are great results, but I assume FUT was used to achieve that?

I'm not an expert in HT history, but I believe Zarev is the first doctor to perform 12000+ grafts restorations with FUE alone (and without destroying the donor)?

The number of grafts is dependent on the patient, not the surgeon. Dr. Umar has cases of up to 20,000 grafts. Fairly certain Eugenix has some cases in the 10-11k range as well. Again, just because you see a case like these, doesn’t mean you’re gonna get the same results.

That’s why it’s so important to see how regular everyday patients with average to below average donors look. There’s no secret tool or formula that will multiply hair in the donor. You’re given a certain supply and that’s what you have to work with for life.

[JohnBob]

Edit: you already asked it in the previous comment.

Edited December 18, 2020 by JohnBob

[Gatsby]

Eugenix have performed a case of over 16,500 grafts. Everything that I have to chime in in this thread will mirror everything that Melvin has already previously stated.

[JohnBob]

6 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

The number of grafts is dependent on the patient, not the surgeon. Dr. Umar has cases of up to 20,000 grafts. Fairly certain Eugenix has some cases in the 10-11k range as well. Again, just because you see a case like these, doesn’t mean you’re gonna get the same results.

That’s why it’s so important to see how regular everyday patients with average to below average donors look. There’s no secret tool or formula that will multiply hair in the donor. You’re given a certain supply and that’s what you have to work with for life.

"The number of grafts is dependent on the patient, not the surgeon."

Isn't both necessary? If you have great donor but the doctor doesn't have the skills, you won't be able to use a lot of grafts without looking depleted. I've seen guys with good donors looking depleted with as little as 4K grafts extracted via FUE.

I might be wrong but I've never seen Eugenix go beyond 7K FUE with scalp hairs alone. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by JohnBob

[JohnBob]

6 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

Eugenix have performed a case of over 16,500 grafts. Everything that I have to chime in in this thread will mirror everything that Melvin has already previously stated.

Wow, do you have a link for that? Was it all FUE and scalp hairs?

I believe there is a positive correlation between the ability to produce outlier results (given the right patient) and skill. It's no surprising Eugenix is very well regarded. 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by JohnBob

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, JohnBob said:

"The number of grafts is dependent on the patient, not the surgeon."

Isn't both necessary? If you have great donor but the doctor doesn't have the skills, you won't be able to use a lot of grafts without looking depleted. I've seen guys with good donors looking depleted with as little as 4K grafts extracted via FUE.

Not necessarily, you may assume they have a great donor, but that may not be reality. Hair density can only be seen really with high magnification, that’s when you see doubles, triples quadruples. 

Plus, the number of grafts is irrelevant to the number of hairs per graft.  Add to that, the thickness of the hair, which is the most important.

For example, one patient gets 12,000 grafts with lets say 1.5 hairs per graft. Conversely, another patient gets 8,000 grafts with 2.8 hairs per graft, who gets more hair? I’ll spare you the math 18,000 vs 22,400 hairs.

On paper, the 12,000 looks impressive, but the truth is in the numbers. You should tune in to the Bisanga post, he explained it perfectly.

Again, you’re looking at things from tunnel vision. Just because a clinic is good at mega sessions doesn’t mean they will be best for your situation. Also doesn’t mean you’ll look like their star patients. There are surgeons best for different situations. 

[JohnBob]

To be clear why I'm interested in doctors producing outlier results -- as I said that is an ability that I think it is correlated with top skill. (of course consistency is another aspect I'm looking at, but it goes beyong the point here).

A doctor that has the ability to maximize the results of a patient with a great donor area will have a higher chance of maximizing the results of a patient with a average donor too (while not destroying it) compared to a ordinary doctor, IMO. 

For example, I believe a doctor can only can perform 10k+ FUE restorations if his transaction rate is very low, no matter how good your donor area is.

If your donor area is average or bellow average, you will still be benefited from a low transaction rate, so it makes sense to consider that doctor for a restoration.

 

[JohnBob]

7 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Not necessarily, you may assume they have a great donor, but that may not be reality. Hair density can only be seen really with high magnification, that’s when you see doubles, triples quadruples. 

Plus, the number of grafts is irrelevant to the number of hairs per graft.  Add to that, the thickness of the hair, which is the most important.

For example, one patient gets 12,000 grafts with lets say 1.5 hairs per graft. Conversely, another patient gets 8,000 grafts with 2.8 hairs per graft, who gets more hair? I’ll spare you the math 18,000 vs 22,400 hairs.

On paper, the 12,000 looks impressive, but the truth is in the numbers. You should tune in to the Bisanga post, he explained it perfectly.

Again, you’re looking at things from tunnel vision. Just because a clinic is good at mega sessions doesn’t mean they will be best for your situation. Also doesn’t mean you’ll look like their star patients. There are surgeons best for different situations. 

That Bisanga post was one of the first I read here, very informative and opened my mind on how I should view the whole game plan for my future hair transplants. That quantitative approach is now something I look for with every doctor I consider making a consultation. 

 

[DrTBarghouthi]

I agree with you all. May I add that it is important to know that a number is only a number. It is important to have a good hair/graft average and other breakdowns for each patient. Hair transplant is an illusion of density and knowing what characteristics of hair and density etc helps us in distributing these grafts in an economical way. For example a higher average can mean less extractions. Sorting grafts can mean less 3 haired grafts in the tuft and that saves grafts for other regions. It really is like having an interior designer working on optimizing space. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by DrTBarghouthi
Typos

[SLA]

12 hours ago, Gatsby said:

Eugenix have performed a case of over 16,500 grafts. Everything that I have to chime in in this thread will mirror everything that Melvin has already previously stated.

Here is the case to which Gatsby is referring.

It is one thing to restore someone with an awesome donor area and yet another thing to be able to restore someone with poor donor.

As you see here, Eugenix's record (although I think it has since been broken) was set on someone with poor donor by using ~10k beard grafts and 2k chest grafts.

Truly an amazing story! Have a read as it is inspiring.

 

[SLA]

Sorry, link didn't come through...Here it is.

 

https://www.hairlossexperiences.com/threads/eugenix-16-500-grafts-over-2-5-years-to-change-the-fortune.8774/

[Curious25]

On 12/18/2020 at 2:39 AM, JohnBob said:

To be clear why I'm interested in doctors producing outlier results -- as I said that is an ability that I think it is correlated with top skill. (of course consistency is another aspect I'm looking at, but it goes beyong the point here).

 

Agree 100% 

And I think that is what is being misinterpreted by a few on here - it's not 'hype', its intrigued posters who have seen astonishing results, and want to learn more about said surgeon. 

No matter how good a patient presents himself to be as a hair transplant candidate, to achieve the end results Zarevs clinic showcase with the graft numbers given, the team are clearly doing an excellent job. 



 

[asterix0]

To note, it is a bit of a red herring to post another clinic and claim some sort of equivalency when:

1) Those other clinics do not show detailed comb through videos of the hair, to avoid any camera lighting tricks. 

2) They do not post high resolution pictures of the donor with the hair cut short from all angles.

3) They do not post top views with the hair cut short or from other angles. All are slick back "combover" style hair cuts where the actual yield is masked as much as possible. 

3) They do not post immediate post-op pictures of the donor and recipient, where-as Dr. Zarev does. His transparency far exceeds these other clinics.

Like it has already been stated, the patient accounts are the only missing piece, and hopefully this will be rectified soon enough when people go and start documenting their results here and on other forums.

 

[JohnBob]

17 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Agree 100% 

And I think that is what is being misinterpreted by a few on here - it's not 'hype', its intrigued posters who have seen astonishing results, and want to learn more about said surgeon. 

No matter how good a patient presents himself to be as a hair transplant candidate, to achieve the end results Zarevs clinic showcase with the graft numbers given, the team are clearly doing an excellent job. 



 

Exactly. I don't want to hype anyone. I'm doing my research, trying decide which doctors I'm going to have a consultation and eventually have a procedure done. And as I'm discovering new things I share with other people here. 

[JohnBob]

9 hours ago, asterix0 said:

To note, it is a bit of a red herring to post another clinic and claim some sort of equivalency when:

1) Those other clinics do not show detailed comb through videos of the hair, to avoid any camera lighting tricks. 

2) They do not post high resolution pictures of the donor with the hair cut short from all angles.

3) They do not post top views with the hair cut short or from other angles. All are slick back "combover" style hair cuts where the actual yield is masked as much as possible. 

3) They do not post immediate post-op pictures of the donor and recipient, where-as Dr. Zarev does. His transparency far exceeds these other clinics.

Like it has already been stated, the patient accounts are the only missing piece, and hopefully this will be rectified soon enough when people go and start documenting their results here and on other forums.

 

To add on top of that, the other cases posted were all FUTs, while FUE (the method Zarev uses) is supposedly harder to do right on large restorations like he is doing. 

And good point on his documentation. His pre and post op pictures are the most detailed and consistent I have ever seen. Lot's of pictures from different areas and angles but with almost exact lighting before/after. Very easy to compare and inspect. 

His videos are also very good. No sound, animations or basically any marketing stuff. Just the head documentation. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by JohnBob

[JohnBob]

I researched all the cases @Melvin-Moderator posted and all were FUT and bellow 9K grafts (couldn't get very accutare info on Antonio Conte but he had at lease one FUT). 

@SLA thanks a lot for posting that 16,500 grafts case from Eugenix. That is insane, those guys are beasts and that case deserves its own thread. In total, only 2,500 grafts from scalp were used. Even though Eugenix have done a lot of big restorations, after glancing at all the videos from their YT channel I didn't see any case where more than 6,000 grafts or so were taken from the scalp. 

 

What I mentioned above goes to show how unusual is what Dr. Zarev is achieving, because: 

1 - 12k graft restorations are very very rare

2 - 12k graft purely from scalp donor like he is doing is even more rare

3 - 12k graft from scalp donor AND performed 100% via FUE (a method they say is not well suited for large restorations) is EVEN more rare. Maybe it's just Zarev going that far with FUE? If you guys know any other doctor doing that please let me know (maybe Lorenzo?)

4 - On top of doing 12k restorations with only scalp hair and 100% FUE, he also shows the post op donor area of his patients looking surprisingly good.

This leads me to believe he must have one of the lowest transections rate in the business. It's one thing to mask a bad transection rate with 4k FUE extractions well spread all over the safe zone of a patient. It's a totally different story to mask it on 12k extractions, no matter how good your donor originally was.

So if Zarev is doing such large FUE restorations and showing very detailed post of photographs of good looking donors, I will assume he is very masterful in extracting those grafts, and only a very few of them are being lost due transection. And since the end result on the recipient area is also excellent on the cases he showed, I will assume his growth yield is also good. 

Will Zarev be able to perform a 12k restoration on my if my donor is not good? No. But even if my donor only allows half of that amount to be used, I still will want a surgeon with low transection rates and high growth yield. And because of I mentioned earlier it seems like Zarev has both. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by JohnBob

[JohnBob]

And also important: while most (if not all) FUE doctors won't extract more of 6k grafts TOPS from the scalp of a patient, Dr. Zarev can go double that and still show a good looking donor area post op. How is that possible?

I have a guess, but I would love to read the opinion of the other forum members first. 

[Curious25]

4 hours ago, JohnBob said:

I researched all the cases @Melvin-Moderator posted and all were FUT and bellow 9K grafts (couldn't get very accutare info on Antonio Conte but he had at lease one FUT). 

Lmao. 
 

It’s because you’re asking questions, he and not many others can answer.
 

Threads of any surgeon who isn’t recommended on here usually face extra scrutiny and cynicism from the community - rightly or wrongly so, may I add . . there is no question in my mind that patient testimonials are the most accurate form of assessing clinics and surgeons actual abilities,  and that is what we are missing here - however I don’t know any other surgeons, whose clinics’ own showcased FUE results that they document online to be comparative with Zarevs in terms of aesthetics, surgical breakdown of figures, recipient density, and post donor. 
 

Maybe he’s just got lucky with having a number of the 0.1% elitist patients in the world in terms of donor density - however I highly doubt that’s the case when you consider the tens of thousands of patients other top FUE surgeons have worked on. 

[tressful11]

It's certainly normal to be skeptical of a new surgeon with a novel technique or approach that produces remarkable results. I am pretty people must have been skeptical of Dr. Couto in his early days but he seems like a top surgeon now and has blown up in popularity. 
Looking at Dr. Zarev's videos, it seems like he's the next Dr. Couto . There's no way he's bullshitting with such detailed analysis of donor and recipient regions and such remarkable results. He has plenty of results to showcase his expertise too. 

That's not to say we shouldn't be skeptical. I still have some doubts but overall I feel like he's going to have a huge queue just like Dr. Couto in the next few years.

Edited December 20, 2020 by tressful11

[Melvin- Admin]

14 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Lmao. 
 

It’s because you’re asking questions, he and not many others can answer.
 

Threads of any surgeon who isn’t recommended on here usually face extra scrutiny and cynicism from the community - rightly or wrongly so, may I add . . there is no question in my mind that patient testimonials are the most accurate form of assessing clinics and surgeons actual abilities,  and that is what we are missing here - however I don’t know any other surgeons, whose clinics’ own showcased FUE results that they document online to be comparative with Zarevs in terms of aesthetics, surgical breakdown of figures, recipient density, and post donor. 
 

Maybe he’s just got lucky with having a number of the 0.1% elitist patients in the world in terms of donor density - however I highly doubt that’s the case when you consider the tens of thousands of patients other top FUE surgeons have worked on. 

I don’t agree, I personally have said favorable things about several  surgeons that aren’t recommended here. For example, Dr. Ferreira, Arshad, Nader, and Bicer have no affiliation, but I’ve said favorable things based on actual patient reviews. If the results look good I will say it regardless.  

Furthermore, I haven’t said anything negative about this doctor, on the contrary, he’s no doubt a talented surgeon, which I’ve already stated. Everything I’ve said has been factual and objective. As far as I can see, he has 6 cases with over 10k grafts. That’s a small number in the overall spectrum. That is because that graft level can be achieved in a small number of patients, that’s a fact. 

There’s @mustang who’s had 10k grafts spread out over a dozen surgeries. He’s been to the world’s best, will I be able to do the same? No, that’s the point. There’s no surgeon, tool, or technique that can add donor hair to your scalp. Until then, we have what god gave us. 

Re-organizing your house can make it look like you’ve added a hundred square feet, but there’s no interior designer/decorator that can add square footage by re-organizing. 

I stand by our motto We're here to help each other cut past the hype and learn about proven hair loss treatments and physicians.

[mustang]

On 12/19/2020 at 10:28 PM, JohnBob said:

And also important: while most (if not all) FUE doctors won't extract more of 6k grafts TOPS from the scalp of a patient, Dr. Zarev can go double that and still show a good looking donor area post op. How is that possible?

I have a guess, but I would love to read the opinion of the other forum members first. 

This is absolutely untrue

9k to 12k is done by many top european doctors, their cases are all over.

[JohnBob]

2 hours ago, mustang said:

This is absolutely untrue

9k to 12k is done by many top european doctors, their cases are all over.

Other than Zarev and Lorenzo, who are the other doctors performing 9K+ scalp graft FUE restorations? I would love to know. 

[JohnBob]

double post

Edited December 21, 2020 by JohnBob

[dobler]

Wow these are by far the best results I have seen in my life, for completely bald guys. 

And the donor looks untouched? I am refusing to believe it's possible. There is something fishy here?

My only explanation would be - he only accepts candidates after the age of 35-40 and whose donor zone is extremely dense

 

BTW - have a look at this video for example: 

See 0:27 (after 1st transplant) and compare to 0:29 (right before 2nd transplant) - seems like he lost 50% of the transplanted hair of the 1st HT.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by dobler

[JohnBob]

Zarev just posted in his IG part of his presentations at the GHLS 2020.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ4YD1LDCGR/?igshid=16s9iru9c91w3

Very interesting and gives us a more detailed look on how he operates, definitely worth viewing it!

He is very hands on and meticulous, and does all the stages of the operation himself. Says it takes 2 hours just for the planning - is it normal?

Edited January 12, 2021 by JohnBob