Microneedling Thread *Give Me More HAIR

[Melvin- Admin]

Hey Guys,

I've been inspired by @CosmoKramer to start my own microneedling journey, I have also seen some impressive results on YouTube. I bought a dermaroller 4 years ago, but never really used it, I didn't think it actually worked, and it hurt like hell. I have been using it consistently for about two weeks. I can't say I really notice a difference yet, but that is to be expected for two weeks. I will post monthly updates, and I will post if I make any changes to my protocol. 

My protocol:

I use a 1.5 mm dermaroller 3-4x per week for 10-15 minutes. I roll vertically and horizontally across my entire scalp. I'm considering investing in a dermapen, but I want to see if I get results from the dermaroller first before I invest lol. I use Lipogaine minoxidil 30 minutes after using the dermaroller. 

I did notice some side effects from minoxidil after using the dermaroller. I felt a little lightheaded and a slight headache, but it only lasts for about 25 minutes, and then it goes away. I will need to consult with some docs to see what they think, part of me thinks that it must be a good sign, since the minoxidil is being absorbed better.  Below are my baseline pictures. If I can get a 10% improvement doing just this, I'll be stoked. 

 

[HLPToronto]

I think the science and the logic behind microneedling makes total sense. blood rushes to those areas and if blood circulation is triggered by an act, that area must be nourished to better function and have better hair eventually

 

good luck, i am on the fence about ordering one for my scalp too, let us know please if you see a good difference in few months and stay the course

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, HLPToronto said:

I think the science and the logic behind microneedling makes total sense. blood rushes to those areas and if blood circulation is triggered by an act, that area must be nourished to better function and have better hair eventually

 

good luck, i am on the fence about ordering one for my scalp too, let us know please if you see a good difference in few months and stay the course

I’ll be updating this thread every month, if I can see even a small change it’ll be worth it, especially considering the dermaroller cost like $5 

[ITA]

I follow this discussion with great interest, even I have just purchased and used it once and only on vertex, I am 4 and a half months after my procedure, I will use it every other day, but not applying minoxidil immediately after using it I am afraid  that may cause me irritation because of the alcohol it contains.

[CosmoKramer]

Great to see your own microneedling progress thread, @Melvin-Moderator! Definitely following!

I too noticed a faster heart rate if I applied my Minoxidil right after a session so now I wait at least an hour or two and it less of an issue, and yeah , it shows that the Minoxidil is absorbing better.

Two week is way early and the only progress you’ll see is shedding of any native hairs that are miniaturized or in the process of miniaturization as the better blood flow/oxygen/nutrition to the bulb kicks it into action, I shed a bunch the first few weeks and this was before I even started incorporating any Minoxidil (which I did about a few weeks later).

I would definitely recommend getting a small glass atomizer or spray bottle and fill it with filtered water then add some drops of peppermint oil and spray your scalp with it before each microneedling session...as wet hair makes it easier to use the derma roller so as not to damage existing hairs and the peppermint oil drops get the blood flow going too.

 

 

[CosmoKramer]

Here is some good motivation if you haven’t seen these guys progress...if it’s cool to post these as they are from Reddit or another hair loss forum (if not, feel free to remove).

The last 2 photos the guy looks to have had DUPA and his progress looked great.

These are 2 different people just to be clear, 1st screen grab is one guy the other two photos is a different guy.

Edited February 26, 2020 by CosmoKramer

[Melvin- Admin]

7 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

Great to see your own microneedling progress thread, @Melvin-Moderator! Definitely following!

I too noticed a faster heart rate if I applied my Minoxidil right after a session so now I wait at least an hour or two and it less of an issue, and yeah , it shows that the Minoxidil is absorbing better.

Two week is way early and the only progress you’ll see is shedding of any native hairs that are miniaturized or in the process of miniaturization as the better blood flow/oxygen/nutrition to the bulb kicks it into action, I shed a bunch the first few weeks and this was before I even started incorporating any Minoxidil (which I did about a few weeks later).

I would definitely recommend getting a small glass atomizer or spray bottle and fill it with filtered water then add some drops of peppermint oil and spray your scalp with it before each microneedling session...as wet hair makes it easier to use the derma roller so as not to damage existing hairs and the peppermint oil drops get the blood flow going too.

 

 

Great tip man definitely gonna buy that.

[Lohvisa]

Wouldn't you say 1.5mm 3-4x a week is a bit over-doing it? I heard that 1x a week is enough for 1.5mm, and the rest of the week you should use 0.25, or 0.3mm

[duchaine]

5 minutes ago, Lohvisa said:

Wouldn't you say 1.5mm 3-4x a week is a bit over-doing it? I heard that 1x a week is enough for 1.5mm, and the rest of the week you should use 0.25, or 0.3mm

totally agree!

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Lohvisa said:

Wouldn't you say 1.5mm 3-4x a week is a bit over-doing it? I heard that 1x a week is enough for 1.5mm, and the rest of the week you should use 0.25, or 0.3mm

Everything I’ve read recommends 3-4x per week, the smaller gauges do nothing for me, I have a low gauge but it doesn’t feel like I’m doing anything. Maybe @CosmoKramer can chime in. 

[Mycroft]

The major studies I've seen all reference 1.5 mm once a week. However, I've seen anecdotal accounts of people using this gauge or slightly higher more along the lines of 2-3 times a week.

I've done twice a week at 1.5 with no I'll effects to my progress but I'm honestly too lazy to maintain that right now.

I suppose this would be most analogous to going to the gym, and the idea that it's actually the time recovering from the gym where you're truly growing that muscle mass. Microneedling is essentially stimulating an inflammatory healing response which seems to also promote hair growth. However, we also know that inflammation of the scalp can be one of the big causes of hair loss, so it's important not to overdo it. My slightly unpopular opinion on this is it tends to vary between individuals depending on your response to the wounding.

How's your skin looking between sessions with this frequency? Perpetual redness? Any lingering feelings of irritation? That's more what I'd be looking at rather than blanket statements, especially considering the whole process is purely based on minimal scientific data and anecdotal accounts.

[Melvin- Admin]

@Mycroft 

Thanks for the post, very informative. My skin looks fine, some minor redness and some slight bleeding immediately after, but the next day it’s all gone. What’s your protocol? 

I know about laziness lol I’ve had this thing for 4 years, and I’m barely using it- this thread will force me, cause I can’t leave it hanging.

[Mycroft]

2 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

@Mycroft 

Thanks for the post, very informative. My skin looks fine, some minor redness and some slight bleeding immediately after, but the next day it’s all gone. What’s your protocol? 

I know about laziness lol I’ve had this thing for 4 years, and I’m barely using it- this thread will force me, cause I can’t leave it hanging.

Originally started with 1.5 mm once a week based on the studies since I, like you, found lower gauges to be worthless. Good results. I do 6 reps horizontal, vertical, and diagonal. One rep is back and forth. Wash my hair with caffeinated and menthol-infused products afterwards to clean the scalp and then apply my minox. No sides for me.

Eventually I went up to 2 mm once a week just because I felt like I wanted to make sure I was getting appropriate depth in areas where my hair was thicker. I'm now back to 1.5 because with my new Dr Pen the 2mm depth tends to have issues "sticking" on my forehead just below my hairline where there's no terminal hair visible.

I have since started to do 1.5 mm twice a week with 1-2 days of rest in between. Sometimes I get lazy and just do once a week but I always leave at least a day between sessions. The wounds aren't deep but if you don't give your skin time to heal you're not going to be getting the benefit of the rolling which is a side result of the healing process M-W-F could potentially be viable in my experience but I'd honestly start with M and F or something.

I'm also doing PRP as you know, and I believe the microneedling specifically works to activate those growth factors for as long as they're present. In fact, many doctors who administer PRP will microneedle the scalp along with it because, again, PRP is generally used to heal injuries and such. Microneedling promotes your body's natural healing response, so it should also be promoting work from that external supplementation as well.

[Melvin- Admin]

Thanks again, that makes sense. I’ll try the M-W-F split. May even add the PRP as well, Arocha is far away 😢

[Lohvisa]

On 2/26/2020 at 9:40 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Everything I’ve read recommends 3-4x per week, the smaller gauges do nothing for me, I have a low gauge but it doesn’t feel like I’m doing anything. Maybe @CosmoKramer can chime in. 

https://dermarollerstore.co.uk/pages/derma-roller-for-hair-loss

"Use a shorter needle length derma roller (0.2mm-0.5mm) several times a week to enhance absorption of minoxidil/hair loss treatment. Use a longer length derma roller (0.5mm-1.0mm) once a week to once a fortnight, to promote regeneration of the hair follicles."

https://hairverse.com/dermaroller-hair-loss/

 

Dermarollers with smaller needles have needles measuring 0.25 mm to 0.3 mm. It is okay to use the 0.25 mm roller everyday if your scalp is well tolerant of everyday treatment. Otherwise, treatment every other day is also effective.

0.15 – 0.3 mm dermarolling – every 1-3 days.

0.5 – 1.5 mm dermarolling – every 1-3 weeks.

Larger dermarollers with needles measuring 0.5mm to 1.5mm are the ideal instruments for boosting the production of endothelial growth factors.

I would advise using them once a month, but you can also use them once weekly if you can tolerate weekly treatment with these dermarollers.

 

So yes, I don't know where you've read all those that recommend 1.5mm at 3-4x per week. That's definitely over-doing it. The repeated damage you cause to your epidermis and dermis shouldn't be as often as 3-4x a week. The increased circulation you get from the damage caused from a 1.5mm needle definitely doesn't require you doing it again the next day or the day after, the effects are longer-lasting.

I wish you lots of luck in your adventures of micro-needling, but I definitely don't wish you to hurt yourself or your skin tissue.

[CosmoKramer]

On 2/26/2020 at 2:07 PM, Lohvisa said:

Wouldn't you say 1.5mm 3-4x a week is a bit over-doing it? I heard that 1x a week is enough for 1.5mm, and the rest of the week you should use 0.25, or 0.3mm

Yes, this is the assumed “norm” to get some results and I originally started with 1.5mm 1x a week, although I see better results with 3-4x a week, for myself personally my skin heals well and I don’t push the pen needles too hard and even though I have it set to 2mm due to my HT hairs in the way I know that the derma pen is not actually going the full depth of 2mm....but yes, that’s a good protocol to start with that you listed...nothing is set in stone as it’s taken a lot of people experimenting with different routines.

[CosmoKramer]

On 2/26/2020 at 3:40 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Everything I’ve read recommends 3-4x per week, the smaller gauges do nothing for me, I have a low gauge but it doesn’t feel like I’m doing anything. Maybe @CosmoKramer can chime in. 

Exactly! When I set the derma pen to 0.5mm or even 1mm I barely feel as if I’m doing anything, and I doubt it’s reaching the full dept as I don’t rest the needles in one spot for too long, just slightly firmly but quickly...enough to feel the blood rushing and pumping to my scalp, which I like...and using a derma pen is definitely much better for possibly quicker results than one may get with a roll, just my experience and opinion, though a roller is better than nothing.

[CosmoKramer]

@Melvin-Moderator if it’s cool, I’ll post the microneedling reddit wiki here and on my microneedling thread...and will be updating mine with some recent photos..

Here is link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/wiki/microneedling

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

@Melvin-Moderator if it’s cool, I’ll post the microneedling reddit wiki here and on my microneedling thread...and will be updating mine with some recent photos..

Here is link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/wiki/microneedling

Thanks bro, 
I have no problem with links, as long as they're educational. I will be posting up a video soon. I'm gonna detail my journey on YouTube. Do you mind if I share some of your pics as a source of my inspiration?

[CosmoKramer]

34 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Thanks bro, 
I have no problem with links, as long as they're educational. I will be posting up a video soon. I'm gonna detail my journey on YouTube. Do you mind if I share some of your pics as a source of my inspiration?

Great! Hopefully the wiki link can help answer questions for those interested.

Oh cool, yeah a video on this by you is a great idea, and yes, I give you my permission to use some of my photos in your YT video, thanks for asking first. 👍🏻

[Melvin- Admin]

Thanks to @duchaine and @CosmoKramer for allowing me to share your amazing results on YouTube. You guys definitely inspired me.

[CosmoKramer]

Nice! @Melvin-Moderator...your hair in the photos in the vid looks slightly “healthier”...and yeah, a bit early to see actual visible density results, in fact, like I mentioned, you may start to see some shedding of any of your native hairs that are weak or in the process of miniaturization, which is a good sign that newer better hairs will grow.

PS. I recently said on my thread that in months Dec 2019 til mid February I was shedding about 70-100 hairs per day with each hair shampoo and felt my crown look thinner....but over the past 2-weeks I felt new stubble in my crown and new hairs filling in, so I think the microneedling gains were just going the normal hair cycle route and already looking / feeling better.

Looking forward to your next update!

Edited March 8, 2020 by CosmoKramer

[Dynamo]

Guys which Microneedle roller is recommended? 0.5 but which type ?

i see these 540 version but the needles aren’t actually needles? But spikes. 
 

[CosmoKramer]

20 hours ago, Dynamo said:

Guys which Microneedle roller is recommended? 0.5 but which type ?

i see these 540 version but the needles aren’t actually needles? But spikes. 
 

For just absorption of Minoxidil...0.25mm or 0.5mm roller

For induction of new collagen and hair cell production then at least 1mm.

For derma rollers I would recommend ones that have titanium needles (and not just spikes)

For electric derma pen I recommend the Dr Pen A6

[ITA]

Two and a half months of use of  Microneedling/Dermaroller. Precise that I have never cut my hair from the first photo to date, so the length can give an optical illusion.  I will update in a couple of months.