Official Thread: Have you experienced side effects from finasteride? (Poll)

[NARMAK]

10 hours ago, yesplease said:

All reasonably stated.

That said, I’m not sure that anyone has stated that side effects are guaranteed or permanent. In fact, both @GoliGoliGoli and I have acknowledged that many people do great on fin, with little to no issues and excellent hair retention. It’s more so a few vocal members that choose to be derogatory and dismissive of any stance other than “fin is harmless and if anyone has significant issues, it’s all in their head” takes. In this thread, anyway. 

I would also argue that the value of the literature that we do have for the use of fin for MPB is a bit overstated. At least in terms of convincingly proving that the medication cannot cause significant side effects, and establishing a true “real life” percentage of those affected. 
 

Finally, I don’t personally see the value of locking this thread. As you say, a sensible person can sift through the multiple viewpoints, experiences, facts and opinions presented by posters on this thread. Ultimately it should only enhance one’s ability to better assess their own path. 

Okay, personally yourself i have not seen any particular cases of outright condemnation or something for Finasteride, however, the individual you have tagged has made many references on multiple occasions in this thread to an almost guaranteed level of side affects that will occur and seems to have taken a very specific anti-Finasteride position. So i can't just say that person is doing it the way you've said or we wouldn't with all respect have the carousel of comments that have resulted from that with other posters. 

I do think an issue with this thread is that people coming to this forum aren't educated enough and if anything, the responses here may leave them more confused than when they started. 

So i thank you for pointing out that the medications something many people do great on. I do think we still don't have a full picture of side affects but i do believe serious, persistent side affects and permanent do affect less than 10% of people. Less than 5% for permanently. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

51 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Okay, personally yourself i have not seen any particular cases of outright condemnation or something for Finasteride, however, the individual you have tagged has made many references on multiple occasions in this thread to an almost guaranteed level of side affects that will occur and seems to have taken a very specific anti-Finasteride position. So i can't just say that person is doing it the way you've said or we wouldn't with all respect have the carousel of comments that have resulted from that with other posters. 

 

Where did I say people are guaranteed side effects from Fin? Stop making stuff up. 

It's weird how emotional people get over this topic. Why are you angling to have the thread locked? It's a hair loss forum, people are going to discuss hair loss drugs and their side effects. Why is this so troubling to you?

[NARMAK]

1 hour ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Where did I say people are guaranteed side effects from Fin? Stop making stuff up. 

It's weird how emotional people get over this topic. Why are you angling to have the thread locked? It's a hair loss forum, people are going to discuss hair loss drugs and their side effects. Why is this so troubling to you?

I'm not digging through your entire post history, i don't care enough to bother but you know as well as i do that you have very much implied it through the course of your responses that side affects are more likely than the literature suggests from scientific studies done that people usually cite and you also have take a stance very much against the medication and specifically on the basis of DHT inhibition and your perceived importance of it to be available fully to males. 

[LookMaxx]

16 hours ago, NARMAK said:

I try not to berate or talk down people who state they have side affects and believe they are genuine in nature generally, however there are some very clear and recent posts imo that are perhaps in serious need of the person seeing an actual medical professional for the issues they describe having stopped the medication.

I don’t know why people keep suggesting me to seek medical help. The doctor will laugh at me if I mention my brain sides are due to stopping finasteride. I will laugh at myself if I heard myself say this out loud. I think it’s close to 4 weeks now that I am fin free.
 

The only difference I feel is lack of thoughts about future you know plans etc and a little depression. Last time I posted issues with memory but that’s resolved itself where I randomly remember events going back to my childhood and good memories. 

I think I understand why this is happening or have a theory. I have been on fin since 2020 so I am now experiencing increased DHT levels and lower T levels most likely since the T will get converted to DHT. 

I don’t know if I have PFS and how long it will last. The only really bad side is lack of motivation and planning for future, I am just too centered and in the moment which sucks because there’s a certain enjoyment in dreaming of goals in future and accomplishing them. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

24 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

I'm not digging through your entire post history, i don't care enough to bother but you know as well as i do that you have very much implied it through the course of your responses that side affects are more likely than the literature suggests from scientific studies done that people usually cite and you also have take a stance very much against the medication and specifically on the basis of DHT inhibition and your perceived importance of it to be available fully to males. 

I'm going to ask again. Read it twice if you have to. Where did I say people are "almost guaranteed side effects from Fin"? None of what you said above is relevant whatsoever to the original lie you made about me. I've said numerous times lots of people seem to tolerate it quite well.

[Melvin- Admin]

Guys,

Lets keep this debate healthy. This issue is polarizing. The reason it’s polarizing is because both sides have feelings that should be validated.

Fin and dut are the best treatments we have on the market hands down. If you’re serious about saving your hair get on it asap.

But on the flip side, it can cause side effects, and let me tell you it’s not good if you get them. Only a fool would say side effects are a hoax, and only a fool would say they’re guaranteed. 

[ciaus]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Guys,

Lets keep this debate healthy. This issue is polarizing. The reason it’s polarizing is because both sides have feelings that should be validated.

Fin and dut are the best treatments we have on the market hands down. If you’re serious about saving your hair get on it asap.

But on the flip side, it can cause side effects, and let me tell you it’s not good if you get them. Only a fool would say side effects are a hoax, and only a fool would say they’re guaranteed. 

 

I appreciate your position and intentions here, and its sad to see them being taken advantage of.

This hasn't been healthy for pages. And it was created to function as a poll, not a debate.

 

The overwelming majority of members in favor of using finasteride are not saying the side effects are a hoax. We're saying the symptoms could be caused by other conditions, lifestyle factors, and the nocebo effect. And you need medical professionals to get to the bottom of that, not personal stories and debates on hair loss forums.

 

Ultimately long running toxic conversations like this do far more damage than good, muddying the waters and spreading paranoia. I am so glad I started finasteride many years ago before finding this forum, or reading about it online.

[gillenator]

23 hours ago, BaldV said:

has this dosage stoped your balding?

I cannot say for sure that it has completely stopped the progression of MPB but I can say that it has been so effective that there is hardly any visual change in my hair since I started taking finasteride 25 years ago…I have not experienced any further recessionary loss, its been more a very slight loss of hair caliber.

[sunsurfhair]

6 hours ago, LookMaxx said:

I don’t know why people keep suggesting me to seek medical help. The doctor will laugh at me if I mention my brain sides are due to stopping finasteride. I will laugh at myself if I heard myself say this out loud. I think it’s close to 4 weeks now that I am fin free.
 

The only difference I feel is lack of thoughts about future you know plans etc and a little depression. Last time I posted issues with memory but that’s resolved itself where I randomly remember events going back to my childhood and good memories. 

I think I understand why this is happening or have a theory. I have been on fin since 2020 so I am now experiencing increased DHT levels and lower T levels most likely since the T will get converted to DHT. 

I don’t know if I have PFS and how long it will last. The only really bad side is lack of motivation and planning for future, I am just too centered and in the moment which sucks because there’s a certain enjoyment in dreaming of goals in future and accomplishing them. 

That’s called lack of dopamine my friend. Dopamine is the neuro chemical responsible for motivation, drive, enjoyment, desire, effects libido, creativity etc. Finasteride has a direct effect on the dopaminergic system. Hopefully you will level out and bounce back but many men w PFS unfortunately suffer w anhedonia, which is a stronger form of what you are describing and is connected to an imbalance of dopamine. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6489898/#:~:text=The present study indicated that,and learning new motor skills.

 

The present study indicated that finasteride inhibited brain dopaminergic system and exploratory and motor behaviors in adolescent male rats. Dopaminergic system exerts important modulating effect on neuropsychiatric behaviors besides its regulation on motor control and learning new motor skills.

Edited September 7, 2022 by sunsurfhair

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, ciaus said:

 

I appreciate your position and intentions here, and its sad to see them being taken advantage of.

This hasn't been healthy for pages. And it was created to function as a poll, not a debate.

 

The overwelming majority of members in favor of using finasteride are not saying the side effects are a hoax. We're saying the symptoms could be caused by other conditions, lifestyle factors, and the nocebo effect. And you need medical professionals to get to the bottom of that, not personal stories and debates on hair loss forums.

 

Ultimately long running toxic conversations like this do far more damage than good, muddying the waters and spreading paranoia. I am so glad I started finasteride many years ago before finding this forum, or reading about it online.

Well, that is true, sexual dysfunction can be caused by a myriad of issues, and many times it’s mental. 

This post is a good reason why this thread should stay up. I think there are definitely things you can chalk up to nocebo. My concerns though, are the cognitive issues, that, in my opinion, can’t easily be chalked up to placebo. 

[sunsurfhair]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Well, that is true, sexual dysfunction can be caused by a myriad of issues, and many times it’s mental. 

This post is a good reason why this thread should stay up. I think there are definitely things you can chalk up to nocebo. My concerns though, are the cognitive issues, that, in my opinion, can’t easily be chalked up to placebo. 

There’s probably 50 or so published papers at this point or more documenting the CNS, metabolic, and sexual adverse effects of 5ARs, so yes Melvin you are dead on as usual.

With Fin it’s literally Russian Roulette. Some get the bullet, some don’t and some keep playing and never get the bullet, or it hits them eventually. I believe there is some genetic component or underlying factor to who gets hit. 

[NARMAK]

8 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

There’s probably 50 or so published papers at this point or more documenting the CNS, metabolic, and sexual adverse effects of 5ARs, so yes Melvin you are dead on as usual.

With Fin it’s literally Russian Roulette. Some get the bullet, some don’t and some keep playing and never get the bullet, or it hits them eventually. I believe there is some genetic component or underlying factor to who gets hit. 

I don't quite think describing it as Russian Roulette is a great way to describe the risk profile. 

We know that stopping the medication resolves the issues for the majority of people experiencing them. 

[Melvin- Admin]

I wouldn’t say Russian roulette either. I think overall finasteride is safe. But some unfortunate people do experience sides. Seems to me the sexual ones can often be nocebo, but the brain fog and cognitive ones are the ones that concern me. That said, like Dr. Oscar Munoz said, there’s a threshold. Lower doses usually resolve side effects.

[jr1986]

Should someone who experiences brain fog quit? I got it on day 12 and it wasn't nice. I've since cut my dose even lower. But I've got slight tinnitus since that day, which is definitely real.

 

[Gatsby]

1 hour ago, gillenator said:

I cannot say for sure that it has completely stopped the progression of MPB but I can say that it has been so effective that there is hardly any visual change in my hair since I started taking finasteride 25 years ago…I have not experienced any further recessionary loss, its been more a very slight loss of hair caliber.

@gillenator that’s fantastic news and why I believe it’s worth trying the drug. 

[sunsurfhair]

41 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

I don't quite think describing it as Russian Roulette is a great way to describe the risk profile. 

We know that stopping the medication resolves the issues for the majority of people experiencing them. 

That’s the problem though. In many men, the side effects do not resolve. I don’t know many medications that can cause a long term persistent condition.  I do agree that some stop and get well (thank god), but there are a significant amount of healthy men who ended up with one or a myriad of persistent sides - hence the Post Finasteride Syndrome which is real.
 

I just think it’s quite a gamble to take, solely because there’s that chance the side effects could (very realistically) persist. The risk / reward is quite poor when you think about the fact it’s solely being used to treat a cosmetic condition (AGA). I was unfortunately hit myself, and if I could’ve done it again, I would’ve been thrilled to use a very low dose scalp formula which I’m actually exploring. I do think the utility of blocking DHT at the scalp is extremely useful for MPB, but it’s unfortunate that (for some men) it can come with bad consequences. 
 

As far as lower dose of the oral medication goes, I was always under the impression that the dose response curve was the same even with very low doses and it would still build over time. Regardless, there has to be some type of component which triggers this in some men and not at all in others. That’s why I call it Russian Roulette since you have no idea of the eventual outcome which could be quite severe. Remember, suicide just got added to the label formally (previously just depression). That’s no joke. Suicide would never be added due to a placebo effect. 
 

 

[Vann]

I think many people are taking the side effects personally when someone tells them to get it checked out because it wasn't recorded in studies before. Then those same people are getting upset thinking an online person doesn't believe them. 

A lot of these issues that some people face could be directly related to their anxiety towards taking the drug. Some could be peoples tolerance, pre-existing conditions, so many myriads of cases.

You could be a hyper responder, you could be a extremely slow responder, you never know until you take it. You wont know if the things you feel are temporary until you take it. Stopping it could be a false negative, perhaps it could be the reason you don't feel the things you claimed anymore.

Document your steps, don't assume everything is mutually exclusive, and of course talk to a doctor who prescribes you the drug and see how many people claim any side effects in addition to what you make claims for. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Vann

[NARMAK]

21 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

That’s the problem though. In many men, the side effects do not resolve. I don’t know many medications that can cause a long term persistent condition.  I do agree that some stop and get well (thank god), but there are a significant amount of healthy men who ended up with one or a myriad of persistent sides - hence the Post Finasteride Syndrome which is real.
 

I just think it’s quite a gamble to take, solely because there’s that chance the side effects could (very realistically) persist. The risk / reward is quite poor when you think about the fact it’s solely being used to treat a cosmetic condition (AGA). I was unfortunately hit myself, and if I could’ve done it again, I would’ve been thrilled to use a very low dose scalp formula which I’m actually exploring. I do think the utility of blocking DHT at the scalp is extremely useful for MPB, but it’s unfortunate that (for some men) it can come with bad consequences. 
 

As far as lower dose of the oral medication goes, I was always under the impression that the dose response curve was the same even with very low doses and it would still build over time. Regardless, there has to be some type of component which triggers this in some men and not at all in others. That’s why I call it Russian Roulette since you have no idea of the eventual outcome which could be quite severe. Remember, suicide just got added to the label formally (previously just depression). That’s no joke. Suicide would never be added due to a placebo effect. 
 

 

I'm sorry you had the issues you did with Finasteride but i do think it's a little bit of a stretch to say "in many men, side affects don't resolve" because that's a statement trying to quantify the issue, and the numbers wouldn't support that. 

What i mean by this is that if 100 people took the medication and more than 50 got side affects and didn't resolve when stopping, that would constitute many imo. Even if you say 30% is "many" then i'd also say we don't seem to have this be supported given the amount of global prescriptions of the medication and the ability for the people in such large numbers in the internet age to really amplify their experiences. 

I haven't seen any updated labels, but suicide being a side affect of taking medication is a ridiculous notion but that's perhaps just a very strong opinion i have. There would need to be a seriously significant underlying issue for somebody to have a circumstance arise directly from using Finasteride that made that happen. 

The medication has been out for 20+ years, and if the incidence rate was even anecdotally as high as some suggest, then i do genuinely think this medication would have been removed entirely from sale. The fact that it isn't leads me to believe that the science doesn't support the viewpoint against Finasteride some take. Think about it, the medication is out if patent and even if we go on the conspiracy that Big Pharma allowed the medication to remain on market for as long as it did, why is it when it went off patent, generic versions haven't been shut down completely? 

Logic dictates the FDA etc. looking at the science data believe it has a solid safety profile over a long term use. 

[mrmane85]

The side effects for me personally were related to mental health. I didn't come across any sexual side effects. 

Once I stopped taking it, my mood lifted. I've tried all sorts of dosing amounts too and also topical. 

I'll be moving onto oral min next and I'm positive this will work well. 

[sunsurfhair]

17 hours ago, NARMAK said:

I'm sorry you had the issues you did with Finasteride but i do think it's a little bit of a stretch to say "in many men, side affects don't resolve" because that's a statement trying to quantify the issue, and the numbers wouldn't support that. 

What i mean by this is that if 100 people took the medication and more than 50 got side affects and didn't resolve when stopping, that would constitute many imo. Even if you say 30% is "many" then i'd also say we don't seem to have this be supported given the amount of global prescriptions of the medication and the ability for the people in such large numbers in the internet age to really amplify their experiences. 

I haven't seen any updated labels, but suicide being a side affect of taking medication is a ridiculous notion but that's perhaps just a very strong opinion i have. There would need to be a seriously significant underlying issue for somebody to have a circumstance arise directly from using Finasteride that made that happen. 

The medication has been out for 20+ years, and if the incidence rate was even anecdotally as high as some suggest, then i do genuinely think this medication would have been removed entirely from sale. The fact that it isn't leads me to believe that the science doesn't support the viewpoint against Finasteride some take. Think about it, the medication is out if patent and even if we go on the conspiracy that Big Pharma allowed the medication to remain on market for as long as it did, why is it when it went off patent, generic versions haven't been shut down completely? 

Logic dictates the FDA etc. looking at the science data believe it has a solid safety profile over a long term use. 

There is so much erroneous information in your answer, I am not even going to begin to address this because it would just result in an endless cycle of back and forth, plus I respect you as a senior member of the forum. If this is your opinion, so be it, but I encourage you to actually read the mountain of research that is available at this point, the result of what Merck hid in the trials which was heavily exposed in the mountains of information that was outed in the original court case, which Reuters released. It’s not some huge conspiracy theory - the drug made billions and pharma is heavily protected. It’s money, it’s no conspiracy. That’s the reality. The incident rate is WAY higher then quoted in the product literature, that’s a fact my friend. You’re entitled to your opinion though. Take a look at the survey on this thread, it’s almost a 50/50 split. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by sunsurfhair

[GoliGoliGoli]

2 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

There is so much erroneous information in your answer, I am not even going to begin to address this because it would just result in and endless cycle of back and forth, plus I respect you as a senior member of the forum. If this is your opinion, so be it, but I encourage you to actually read the mountain of research that is available at this point, the result of what Merck hid in the trials which was heavily exposed in the mountains of information that was outed in the original court case, which Reuters released. It’s not some huge conspiracy theory - the drug made billions and pharma is heavily protected. It’s money, it’s no conspiracy. That’s the reality. The incident rate is WAY higher then quoted in the product literature, that’s a fact my friend. You’re entitled to your opinion though. Take a look at the survey on this thread, it’s almost a 50/50 split. 

From the Pharma companies perspective they really love drugs like Fin that the patient has to use for the rest of their life. Most of their R&D money goes into these types of drugs.

It's a big reason their is basically no new research into developing antibiotics. You take those for a few weeks a couple times in your life and then you're done. Whereas stuff like Statins/Fin you are supposed to take forever which guarantees a constant revenue stream. 

[sunsurfhair]

17 hours ago, NARMAK said:

I'm sorry you had the issues you did with Finasteride but i do think it's a little bit of a stretch to say "in many men, side affects don't resolve" because that's a statement trying to quantify the issue, and the numbers wouldn't support that. 

What i mean by this is that if 100 people took the medication and more than 50 got side affects and didn't resolve when stopping, that would constitute many imo. Even if you say 30% is "many" then i'd also say we don't seem to have this be supported given the amount of global prescriptions of the medication and the ability for the people in such large numbers in the internet age to really amplify their experiences. 

I haven't seen any updated labels, but suicide being a side affect of taking medication is a ridiculous notion but that's perhaps just a very strong opinion i have. There would need to be a seriously significant underlying issue for somebody to have a circumstance arise directly from using Finasteride that made that happen. 

The medication has been out for 20+ years, and if the incidence rate was even anecdotally as high as some suggest, then i do genuinely think this medication would have been removed entirely from sale. The fact that it isn't leads me to believe that the science doesn't support the viewpoint against Finasteride some take. Think about it, the medication is out if patent and even if we go on the conspiracy that Big Pharma allowed the medication to remain on market for as long as it did, why is it when it went off patent, generic versions haven't been shut down completely? 

Logic dictates the FDA etc. looking at the science data believe it has a solid safety profile over a long term use. 

The FDA quote is laughable btw. Did you ever see what happened with OxyContin and Purdue Pharma? Maybe took a look into that. The FDA quite happily allowed that med to cruise along with very mild product literature when Purdue created the most incredibly addictive opiate known to man and created a massive opioid crisis, which we are still dealing with the fall out from. So if you’re trusting the FDA for true, unbiased guidance, you’re sadly mistaken. Go watch Dopesick with Michael Keaton on Netflix. Fantastic story on how that entire scenario played out. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

Yes many such cases.  "Regulatory capture" whereby regulatory bodies become beholden to the industry they're theoretically supposed to be keeping honest is a real thing. 

Edit: And just to be clear, the above is not necessarily me suggesting that Fin/Dut must be pulled from the market either. Maybe their is a case to be made for doing so, maybe not, but that isn't what I'm seeking to imply. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli

[NARMAK]

3 hours ago, sunsurfhair said:

There is so much erroneous information in your answer, I am not even going to begin to address this because it would just result in an endless cycle of back and forth, plus I respect you as a senior member of the forum. If this is your opinion, so be it, but I encourage you to actually read the mountain of research that is available at this point, the result of what Merck hid in the trials which was heavily exposed in the mountains of information that was outed in the original court case, which Reuters released. It’s not some huge conspiracy theory - the drug made billions and pharma is heavily protected. It’s money, it’s no conspiracy. That’s the reality. The incident rate is WAY higher then quoted in the product literature, that’s a fact my friend. You’re entitled to your opinion though. Take a look at the survey on this thread, it’s almost a 50/50 split. 

I never said the incidence rate wasn't likely higher than the literature and even stated 5% as a ballpark but to say permanent side affects are affecting many men as in a majority of users relative to the millions of prescriptions globally would be incorrect. I do certainly agree with you though, it's higher than the studies and literature but even if we were to say twice as high, the interesting correlation of the studies for me has always been the placebo group indicating sides too. 

I also agree the FDA isn't infallible and mentioned how Big Pharma do manipulate things, but once it went off patent if Merck weren't going to benefit and btw, it wasn't even anywhere close to as big a money spinner as their other drugs when they even had the patent. I would have thought it would have been taken off market to really add fuel to the fire of that notion, but it's still selling and stronger than ever given the generic brands sold by Keeps  HIMS, Manual etc. globally. 

3 hours ago, sunsurfhair said:

The FDA quote is laughable btw. Did you ever see what happened with OxyContin and Purdue Pharma? Maybe took a look into that. The FDA quite happily allowed that med to cruise along with very mild product literature when Purdue created the most incredibly addictive opiate known to man and created a massive opioid crisis, which we are still dealing with the fall out from. So if you’re trusting the FDA for true, unbiased guidance, you’re sadly mistaken. Go watch Dopesick with Michael Keaton on Netflix. Fantastic story on how that entire scenario played out. 

I didn't watch it and i'm sure it's interesting. As i said above, Big Pharma and FDA aren't infallible but there's a fair amount of trust put in them for a reason when it comes to citing approval of treatments of X, Y, Z medication. 

Personally i still feel like Finasteride is and has been the most effective medication and saved a lot of men from aggressive hair loss that without having it would have been lost. 

Overall, people are still able to see all the points and make their own decision to use the medication or not. 

[LookMaxx]

So final update then.

I think it’s 30+ days now that I stopped fin, haven’t been keeping track of the exact date. 

I feel fantastic. The brain fog/memory/future well-being sides I had are completely gone. To be frank, maybe it was just a nocebo because the last time I had stopped fin for a two week break, I noticed nothing of this sort  and the only difference back then was I wasn’t reading forums to be influenced by. 

I understand what was happening for sure now, I now have an increased DHT circulating and that’s just a different mindset than when it was low. I am constantly more horny whereas it was at random times on fin which means less time to think and be productive etc. Fin gave me a sort of mental clarity when I wasn’t preoccupied with sex thoughts.

 

 I don’t know when I want to start again, it had definitely stabilised my hairloss. Unfortunately seems like I am heading to NW7 slowly or perhaps a true NW6 when it was bad NW5ish before.