Asmed Dr Koray Erdogan 4264 Grafts July 2018

[Gasthoerer]

3 minutes ago, jonnyalex said:

It is seemingly almost a given now that you need a touch up after an ASMED procedure. The truth is though, unless you go with an actual world class surgeon who performs most of the surgery himself, this is almost always the case. 

This has been proven not to be true. Neither for ASMED nor for other top clinics who use techs. 

[jonnyalex]

9 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

This has been proven not to be true. Neither for ASMED nor for other top clinics who use techs. 

I only go on my own experience and recent results since they moved clinic, performed more surgeries per day and seemingly used less experienced techs. I did not see this before the change of clinics. Nothing has been 'proven' to be true in my view and when you look at these hairlines, I keep seeing the same gappy work in recent results. I strongly believe this coincided with the change of clinic as this change was quite sudden. The techs at H&W have huge experience and the clinic put's out world class results constantly. Some of the tech's at ASMED are barely 20 and I have seen shocking results recently that I didn't see before. 

 

You are free to make your own conclusions. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Fozzie]

33 minutes ago, jonnyalex said:

I strongly believe this coincided with the change of clinic as this change was quite sudden.

I may be wrong but I thought they moved moved to the larger clinic around December 2018? 

[jonnyalex]

9 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

I may be wrong but I thought they moved moved to the larger clinic around December 2018? 

Maybe, maybe not. I'd assume they'd start some off in the old clinic instead of immediately hiring a load of new techs. 

[cali101]

I had my surgery at the old clinic. They had already hired some of the new staff for the new clinic and began training because my coordinator shared this information but my team had over 5 year experience. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by cali101

[Gasthoerer]

2 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

I only go on my own experience ... The techs at H&W have huge experience and the clinic put's out world class results constantly. S...You are free to make your own conclusions. 

Everyone is free to his own conclusion and voice his opinion. It can still be wrong tough. Let's see what you said: 

"The truth is though, unless you go with an actual world class surgeon who performs most of the surgery himself, this is almost always the case. " 

This means in other words:

You need "almost always" a touch up if you go with a clinic using techs (and not if the surgeon is doing the main work). Almost always is >> 50 %, so let us say 75 %. DO you agree?

--> You have already contradicted yourself by ruling out H&W (by the way one of the newer clinics in the FUE world). I assume you would say the same about other clinics like Feriduni (?). So basically you were wrong and you admitted it for the generalization point (Techs = bad result). This leaves ASMED as the clinic with the issue using techs. 

--> @LordBaldwin, has done some research (link below) and it shows that it is not "almost always" (= 75 %) a bad results but quite the opposite. So again, you "feeling" is wrong and the # proof it.

 

Now, do I think the failure rate of ASMED is too high (compared to other top clinics) and the results got worse with the expansion?

Unfortunately, there is not enough data from other clinics to prove the first point and only small indication for the latter one. Personally, I think they have a slightly higher miss rate. The main reasons in my opinion are not the techs, but the high risk approach (high graft#, high graft # per day, dense packing, small punch size, etc.). Anyway, just my opinion, maybe someone can prove me wrong 😉

 

 

[Fozzie]

 

43 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Now, do I think the failure rate of ASMED is too high (compared to other top clinics) and the results got worse with the expansion?

Unfortunately, there is not enough data from other clinics to prove the first point and only small indication for the latter one. Personally, I think they have a slightly higher miss rate. The main reasons in my opinion are not the techs, but the high risk approach (high graft#, high graft # per day, dense packing, small punch size, etc.). Anyway, just my opinion, maybe someone can prove me wrong 😉

Tend to agree with this. Another thing I've noticed is ASMED seem to take an aggressive approach to temple points compared to a lot of other clinics out there. I recently saw a video by ASMED on youtube where a patient came in for a review and Dr Erdogan mentioned the patient had 400 grafts placed in one of his temple temple points. Now if the other side received a similar amount of grafts, that's in and around 800 grafts just on the temple points.

Not an issue in itself however does become a problem imo when someone has had say 3000 grafts or so grafts go on lowering the hairline, reinforcing the area behind the hair line and temple points done. Obviously varies from case to case but there's a couple of cases here where patients haven't been happy  and can't but help suspect the temple point work has resulted in the remaining grafts being a bit too thinly spread on top.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Fozzie

[jonnyalex]

2 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

Everyone is free to his own conclusion and voice his opinion. It can still be wrong tough. Let's see what you said: 

"The truth is though, unless you go with an actual world class surgeon who performs most of the surgery himself, this is almost always the case. " 

This means in other words:

You need "almost always" a touch up if you go with a clinic using techs (and not if the surgeon is doing the main work). Almost always is >> 50 %, so let us say 75 %. DO you agree?

--> You have already contradicted yourself by ruling out H&W (by the way one of the newer clinics in the FUE world). I assume you would say the same about other clinics like Feriduni (?). So basically you were wrong and you admitted it for the generalization point (Techs = bad result). This leaves ASMED as the clinic with the issue using techs. 

--> @LordBaldwin, has done some research (link below) and it shows that it is not "almost always" (= 75 %) a bad results but quite the opposite. So again, you "feeling" is wrong and the # proof it.

 

Now, do I think the failure rate of ASMED is too high (compared to other top clinics) and the results got worse with the expansion?

Unfortunately, there is not enough data from other clinics to prove the first point and only small indication for the latter one. Personally, I think they have a slightly higher miss rate. The main reasons in my opinion are not the techs, but the high risk approach (high graft#, high graft # per day, dense packing, small punch size, etc.). Anyway, just my opinion, maybe someone can prove me wrong 😉

 

I don't believe I contradicted myself at all. The tech's at H&W have massive experience; ASMED's simply don't. They are new in the FUE world yes, but they still maintain the same level of artistry as they did with FUT. I clearly wrote this is "almost" always the case and the surgeon should perform "most" of the work. You have proved nothing. H&W do perform most of the procedure themselves or at least present to make sure it doesn't mess up. I have had a 4600 graft HT with ASMED. The doctor was present for a matter of minutes. He has built a reputation on using an obscene amount of grafts for even minor cases, irrespective of patient age. 

I'm sorry, but any idiot can line the recent results side by side (patient results) and see what I am talking about. You simply rarely see these kind of gappy hairlines from the majority of top clinics these days.  

I mean, let's get real here; Just look at these hairlines. This is not acceptable. Presumably this is why he is now offering a touch up before you even request it now. A touch up when you have already had a 4264 graft HT is an issue though. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Craig2412]

5 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

I only go on my own experience and recent results since they moved clinic, performed more surgeries per day and seemingly used less experienced techs. I did not see this before the change of clinics. Nothing has been 'proven' to be true in my view and when you look at these hairlines, I keep seeing the same gappy work in recent results. I strongly believe this coincided with the change of clinic as this change was quite sudden. The techs at H&W have huge experience and the clinic put's out world class results constantly. Some of the tech's at ASMED are barely 20 and I have seen shocking results recently that I didn't see before. 

 

You are free to make your own conclusions. 

@jonnyalex What was your experience like? Did you make a thread? 

[jonnyalex]

5 minutes ago, Craig2412 said:

@jonnyalex What was your experience like? Did you make a thread? 

My experience was an average result behind the hairline (damn well better be for that amount of grafts). The hairline itself was gappy, but nothing like as bad I am seeing now. This may I had surgery with Dr. Keser to fix it - he questioned the number of grafts used previous. The experience was night and day but obviously I cannot speak of the result yet. 

No thread. This forum directly influenced me to go with ASMED however. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Craig2412]

2 minutes ago, jonnyalex said:

My experience was an average result behind the hairline (damn well better be for that amount of grafts). The hairline itself was gappy, but nothing like as bad I am seeing now. This may I had surgery with Dr. Keser to fix it - he questioned the number of grafts used previous. The experience was night and day but obviously I cannot speak of the result yet. 

No thread. This forum directly influenced me to go with ASMED however. 

Ok cool, I just wondered why you had so much negativity towards this clinic. How many grafts did you use first time around and have you got any photos prior to going to Dr. Kesser?

Good luck with your second procedure and this forum played a major role in me deciding which clinic to choose.

[jonnyalex]

10 minutes ago, Craig2412 said:

Ok cool, I just wondered why you had so much negativity towards this clinic. How many grafts did you use first time around and have you got any photos prior to going to Dr. Kesser?

Good luck with your second procedure and this forum played a major role in me deciding which clinic to choose.

I'm negative because I see negative results and I say what I see. It is simple. This is a toxic industry and defending shoddy work will never improve it. He may have more good than bad results, but I can link to several examples of hairline work which is just terrible. He isn't the worst recommended doctor here by the way. 

 

4600 with ASMED 

 

900 with Keser. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Craig2412]

7 minutes ago, jonnyalex said:

I'm negative because I see negative results and I say what I see. It is simple. This is a toxic industry and defending shoddy work will never improve it. He may have more good than bad results, but I can link to several examples of hairline work which is just terrible. 

 

4600 with ASMED 

 

900 with Keser. 

That’s fair enough but I don’t agree.

[jonnyalex]

4 minutes ago, Craig2412 said:

That’s fair enough but I don’t agree.

Don't agree with what? I see bad results and speak up. You have nothing to agree or disagree with. If you mean that you disagree with my opinion that ASMED is no longer a top HT clinic, that is fine. Until I see consistent world class results posted by patients which I seen years ago, my opinion will not change. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Craig2412]

10 minutes ago, jonnyalex said:

Don't agree with what? I see bad results and speak up. You have nothing to agree or disagree with. If you mean that you disagree with my opinion that ASMED is no longer a top HT clinic, that is fine. Until I see consistent world class results posted by patients which I seen years ago, my opinion will not change. 

I don’t agree with your negative b@llocks and rubbish you post. Why don’t you ever speak up when there’s positive results and they do exist, that’s why we both choose this clinic. 

[Kraistoff]

I agree with what both of you say. 

There definitely seems to be a pattern with poor density behind hairline in SOME of the recent cases. Nobody except the clinic can answer why this is, perhaps they have paired techs together and the less experienced get a go on the second day. 

 

If if I would have known they were training techs in the old clinic whilst getting ready for the new one I wouldn’t have gone to be perfectly honest . I don’t even think I’d let a trainee cut my hair in the barbers let alone implant follicles. 

 

Having said that, they still do have good results , some of the techs are highly experienced . 

[jonnyalex]

On 8/4/2019 at 9:49 PM, Craig2412 said:

I don’t agree with your negative b@llocks and rubbish you post. Why don’t you ever speak up when there’s positive results and they do exist, that’s why we both choose this clinic. 

I don't give a damn what you agree with or not. Why should I speak up when I see a positive result? It is suppose to be a top clinic, no? Shouldn't positive results be expected? Why should I praise them for doing what they are suppose to do? I speak up when I see people's lives being affected by absolutely shit hairline work to which numerous cases are being posted. That isn't a coincidence. Pretending otherwise? THAT is 'b@llocks'. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Craig2412]

3 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

I don't give a damn what you agree with or not. Why should I speak up when I see a positive result? It is suppose to be a top clinic, no? Shouldn't positive results be expected? Why should I praise them for doing what they are suppose to do? I speak up when I see people's lives being affected by absolutely shit hairline work to which numerous cases are being posted. That isn't a coincidence. Pretending otherwise? THAT is 'b@llocks'. 

Shut up you mug. All you do is over exaggerate and constantly slate this clinic. Post your results so we can see your ‘shit hairline’

[jonnyalex]

You only make yourself look stupid when you resort to name calling and personal insults. It just shows you cannot comprehend that others may disagree with your opinion and then you get aggressive.

It is impossible to exaggerate photos of messed up hairlines posted by patients. Those photos are literally here on this website.

Edited August 6, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Craig2412]

1 minute ago, jonnyalex said:

You only make yourself look stupid when you resort to name calling and personal insults. It just shows you cannot comprehend that others may disagree with your opinion. 

Mate all I ever see is you bad mouthing this clinic, yet you don’t even have the decency to show us your own result 

[jonnyalex]

Firstly, I am not your mate. Secondly, why do you think I just went to another clinic to fix my hairline? Because it was a great result the first time? Think!

 

Also, this is a forum where people can post their opinions as well as results. If you don't like it, block me so you don't have to see it and stop crying when you see differing opinions. 

[Craig2412]

7 minutes ago, jonnyalex said:

Firstly, I am not your mate. Secondly, why do you think I just went to another clinic to fix my hairline? Because it was a great result the first time? Think!

 

Also, this is a forum where people can post their opinions as well as results. If you don't like it, block me so you don't have to see it and stop crying when you see differing opinions. 

How am I supposed to know if you’re not willing to share a photo of your final result. 

😂😂 you’re the aggressive one that jumps on every single negative thread and over exaggerates like the clinic is always producing ‘shit’ results which we know isn’t true.

Trust me MATE I’m not crying I’m really happy with my progress so far.

Ciao

[jonnyalex]

Thing is, if you actually read the things I wrote, you'd see that I never once said the clinic always produces bad results. I even said they do have good results. Don't lie to try and validate your argument. 

Furthermore, I wish you the greatest success on your HT journey. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Craig2412]

12 minutes ago, jonnyalex said:

Thing is, if you actually read the things I wrote, you'd see that I never once said the clinic always produces bad results. I even said they do have good results. Don't lie to try and validate your argument. 

Furthermore, I wish you the greatest success on your HT journey. 

You too.

[LordBaldwin]

5 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

I don't give a damn what you agree with or not. Why should I speak up when I see a positive result? It is suppose to be a top clinic, no? Shouldn't positive results be expected? Why should I praise them for doing what they are suppose to do? I speak up when I see people's lives being affected by absolutely shit hairline work to which numerous cases are being posted. That isn't a coincidence. Pretending otherwise? THAT is 'b@llocks'. 

The same logic could be used even if they had a 99% success rate.  "Why praise them for doing what they're supposed to be doing when the 1% had absolutely shit hairline work?"  Only addressing unsatisfactory results and "piling on" paints a false narrative, giving the impression that most/all of their results are unsatisfactory even if you don't explicitly say it.  This is a textbook case of confirmation bias.