My HT's with Dr. Umar - DermHair Clinic, L.A.

[AB2000]

20 hours ago, Pangloss said:

Interesting as I specifically recall reading, in one of Dr. Umar's papers, that he had a low survival rate with back hairs and said that they should not be used.

Another doctor in India told me that the back is not preferred because it scars badly.

I think it goes back to how well the grafting from the arms went.  It's another non-optimal hair donor supply, similar to the back.  Going into the 500 graft session I wasn't promised that it would be a good yield, but from the follow up prior to starting the next surgery I was told the results went well.  That may have given an indication that future BHT's would similarly be successful.

The other thing to consider is that the newer punch tool came out more recently than Umar's earlier papers.  Part of the design intent was extract body hair grafts with less transection and to get those grafts that grow out at sharp angles.

[AB2000]

13 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

Wow what a amazing case yours is. Shows there is hope for people who have exhausted there usual scalp donor area.

I am going to look to my beard for my next Ht when I’m able to travel again.

Looking at your results give me great hope ! After approx 9000 grafts already i needed another reliable source. BHT is the way forward.

cant wait for further updates on your unique case. 

The beard are the second best.  Hopefully these can be mixed in with your existing scalp grafts so that they don't stand out as much.

Edited September 7, 2020 by AB2000

[AB2000]

4 Months Post Op 5th HT:

Now four months down the line from the surgery.  Some irritation due to me picking at the scalp, there are some hairs that are getting stuck under the surface trying to grow out.  The photos can be a bit glary at times due to the lighting but I don't have a better area for doing the progress photos.  At this point I am following the post op instructions and not using hair dye, so some of the grey hairs, whether native or transplanted, don't show up as well.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by AB2000

[lovinitl9]

looking like you are progressing well! when you use body hair (beard and chest), you mentioned that the hairs go into a resting phase more often, but do they come back and how long does it take for each to come back? thanks so much

[TommyLucchese]

Brilliant thread......I really hope this can be it for you brother. Your hair with fibres is amazing, and in all of your post ops I just feel for you going through all this so many times.

You've come a long way and you will definitely be a reference for many people in the future about BHT.

Hopefully you'll be able to move on in 6 months and go enjoy life with a good head of hair again.

 

[AB2000]

On 11/30/2020 at 10:12 PM, lovinitl9 said:

looking like you are progressing well! when you use body hair (beard and chest), you mentioned that the hairs go into a resting phase more often, but do they come back and how long does it take for each to come back? thanks so much

Given how these are mixed in it is hard to say.  If all body hair were in a specific area I could gauge that better, but as it is I will have to pay more attention this time around when I grow my hair back out.  What I recall before the last surgery was that the shorter body hairs were more noticeable at the front of my hairline as they only grew out so long, whereas scalp and beard hairs grew out long.  But since the pattern of hair going into rest phase is common it didn't stand out as particularly noticeable.

Until we learn otherwise I think we have to assume the transplanted hairs retain most of the characteristics of where they came from.  So if a type of body hair grows for six months of the year and goes into resting for the other six then something close to that will happen when it's moved to the scalp.  From what I've seen of some results in the past, for chest hair at least, they seem to grow longer on the head than they did on the body, but not to the same extent as regular head hair.  Perhaps over time they more closely match the resting/growing phase of native scalp hair.

[AB2000]

5 Months Post Op 5th HT:

Quick update.  Been growing the hair out a bit longer.  Not expecting the grafts from the back or arms to really start growing until about the 12 month mark.

 

[AB2000]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:45 AM, TommyLucchese said:

Brilliant thread......I really hope this can be it for you brother. Your hair with fibres is amazing, and in all of your post ops I just feel for you going through all this so many times.

You've come a long way and you will definitely be a reference for many people in the future about BHT.

Hopefully you'll be able to move on in 6 months and go enjoy life with a good head of hair again.

 

The purpose of this thread and the updates through the years is to provide information to someone like myself when I began this process.  Like you say, the photos are for reference.

Two things stand out.  There was very little in the way of people online giving much credibility to a hair transplantation process to use a fair percentage of body hairs for the overall result.  I think I began reading here over ten years ago.  This is probably for good reason in that even still there is not a lot of information on what this type of HT looks like or how effective it is.  I've seen many people err on the side of caution.  But that caution would have resulted in me going with an aweful shaved head look for the rest of my life.  The hair loss was advancing towards it's end point.

The other thing has been a lack of results from clinics demonstrating BHT.  Where to go, if this is what you are looking for?  Back when Turkey was a thing I could not find anyone who would take me on.  I didn't get anywhere with some of the clinics in India the proport to do this type of surgery as well.  The one consistent thing has been the Derm Hair clinic in the US that has experience and the custom tool to successfully extract these harder to transplant grafts and have them survive.  What is the point of rolling the dice on other places that will give it a shot but have most of the body hairs not grow out on the scalp?  I'm hoping other people who have this work done on them at other clinics share their results as well.

Umar has done a lot of work on HT repair cases necessitating non-scalp grafts, and this has driven the design process on a type of punch that can get hairs that are angled in tight and preserves the root of the graft.  Hopefully other places will pick this up as well, as the UGraft Zeus system is now being marketed for other surgeons.

I feel fortunate that I will achieve a result I am happy with but I know that someone like myself will have little in the way of information to point them in similar directions if they are starting out.

Edited December 5, 2020 by AB2000

[Prof101]

Hi AB, 

 

Can you please tell us about scars in the donor body hair area? Chest and beard? 

That would be immensely helpful. I am as hairy as a chimp, but it is the scars that scare me (and the hair quality). 

[AB2000]

On 12/17/2020 at 11:04 PM, Prof101 said:

Hi AB, 

 

Can you please tell us about scars in the donor body hair area? Chest and beard? 

That would be immensely helpful. I am as hairy as a chimp, but it is the scars that scare me (and the hair quality). 

There are faint light dots on the chest where the FUE grafts were taken from.  Not much noticeable on my beard when I shave.  My skin is sensitive so I don't tend to shave my face to the nub and what stubble is left after shaving tends to obscure the presence of any old FUE graft points.

I had some grafts taken from my arm and unless I look real close I don't see any markings.  When body hairs are taken it's done diffusely most of the surrounding hairs remain and cover the area.

[AB2000]

6 Months Post Op 5th HT:

Been continuing to grow out the hair.

 

[AB2000]

Edited January 8, 2021 by AB2000

[Britanium]

Wow 🤩 month 5 - 6 has certainly been eventful 👏

[AB2000]

9 Months Post Op 5th HT:

An assortment of photos taken in different light conditions.  Earlier I had went to the barber.  As far as I can remember that was my visit since 2001, 20 years ago.

 

[AB2000]

[AB2000]

[AB2000]

9 Months Post Op 5th HT (With Concealer):

The last photos are those with some Toppik applied.  I used a moderate amount on the top and back, none on the sides.  It took about a minute, nothing too precise.  I combed the powder through and tried to hit some hair spray to hold it in, but I used a bottle of leave in conditioner accidentally.

Edited March 23, 2021 by AB2000

[Al - Moderator]

You look like a normal guy with some overall thinning. That's a heck of a lot better than being the bald guy. Do you have any body grafts left to use? I been really watching your progress over time because I'm going through something similar.

 

 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

Looks awesome, with toppik it takes it over the top.

[Ajamilo]

Wow, excellent result 😊😊

[AB2000]

20 hours ago, BeHappy said:

You look like a normal guy with some overall thinning. That's a heck of a lot better than being the bald guy. Do you have any body grafts left to use? I been really watching your progress over time because I'm going through something similar.

One easier thing I can do starting in a few months, at the one year point, is to use hair colouring.  There are areas where this can help, such as the nape and the sides of the head.  The greying is following my Norwood six pattern but I've had dark transplanted hair added around it, creating a greying pattern that doesn't look natural.  I think on the sides, especially, the light hairs make it look more thin in density than it is.

I'm not really sold on it yet, but tricho might be an option to add appearance of more hair.  I would never want something if it is a permanent tattoo that changes colour over time, but on the other hand, going with something that only lasts a couple of years means I have to keep re-applying it, creating more scarring each time.

There is a projected 2,500 more beard grafts available.  Not all of these are under chin.  Those coming from the cheek have smaller anagen phases and are not as useful, but it's the best option I have.  Not much chest hair left that is strong enough to make a difference in the scalp.  More hair from my upper chest, arms and back could be done, but again, these have short growing periods followed by long dormancy.  I've been trying to find about whether donor dominance is true and asked Dr. Umar to give his opinion on that, given that he's had cases of patients having BHT going back over ten years now.  If body hair eventually behaves more like head hair then more BHT is an option to get better crown density.

Edited March 24, 2021 by AB2000

[Gatsby]

Wow. What an exceptionally well documented journey. Thanks for sharing AB and breaking everything down in detail. Have or would you consider adding SMP into the mix to give the illusion of added density?

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Gatsby

[Al - Moderator]

3 hours ago, AB2000 said:

One easier thing I can do starting in a few months, at the one year point, is to use hair colouring

 

Yes. I was going to say that to you. I have the same problem but the opposite way. My chest hair is completely gray while my native scalp hair is a mix of dark and gray and I think even the grays from the chest are a different shade of gray than the scalp. This makes it look like I have patches of different hair if I let it go without coloring it. Plus the gray hair just makes me look thinner anyway. Once I dye it all a dark color it looks so much more full and it all blends together much better. You really should do that. You don't need to wait a year.

[anotherhairlosssufferer]

19 hours ago, AB2000 said:

asked Dr. Umar to give his opinion on that, given that he's had cases of patients having BHT going back over ten years now. 

What did he reply? A great, well documented case btw, and a great result. I really like these BHT threads as there is not a lot of them and it gives hope to high Norwoods.

[AB2000]

On 3/24/2021 at 3:47 AM, Gatsby said:

Wow. What an exceptionally well documented journey. Thanks for sharing AB and breaking everything down in detail. Have or would you consider adding SMP into the mix to give the illusion of added density?

 

It is something I have considered but haven't mapped out all the pros and cons.  I'm concerned about how probable a bad outcome is and what exactly that would look like.  The last thing I would want is a permanent SMP which I don't like the look of.  For the non-permanent ones, how much SMP is left behind, because I doubt it is 100% non-permanent.  How much scarring occurs during re-application every x-number of years?  Does this scarring interfere with future BHT?  I'll have to look into all of these things before wading in.

I think my type of hairline would suit SMP though.  There is complete hair coverage, although with the crown less dense.  The problem with SMP is having a completely bald area, because that means shaving down all remaining hair to match the appearance.

I'd be more likely to test some SMP in the donor areas of the scalp first, then see how that goes.