My HT's with Dr. Umar - DermHair Clinic, L.A.

[AB2000]

3 hours ago, jj51702 said:

Looks like you’ve come a long way bro. What does umar charge for bht?

I suggest you get a price through a consultation.  While I imagine the price is the same for everyone I don't know for sure, which is why I recommend this.  What I will say is that in the four years of visits the price per graft that I paid went up a dollar, both head and body, so the price today might not what someone reading this some years down the line would pay.  What I like is that the rate for scalp and beard grafts are the same, though the body ones cost more, since those take more time and care to extract, from what I saw.  I think in some other clinics the beard donors cost more relative to head.  What I pay for by going to a place with experience and tools for BHT is a better survival rate.  Umar takes on patients with botched HT's which need body hair to salvage, and through his work over the years came up with a tool to specifically extract body hairs better.

Going into this back in 2014 I looked around and inquired with hair doctors in Turkey and India, which would have cost less.  I was flat out denied with a clinic in Turkey as I was not "a good candidate."  Bhatti in India has posted great results but wanted to go small on beard FUE to start out with and I didn't want to make multiple trips that far.  All in all I am happy with the results for what I paid for as hair loss was bothering me, and I wanted to get this hairstyle back after 15 years.

[AB2000]

Here are a few pictures I took after adding Toppik to my thin areas on the crown and temples.  I wanted to see what I could achieve by only spending a couple of minutes, instead of laboring for a long time to get it just right.  If I had the Toppik bottle attachment with me that sprays the power I think it would have been easier to hit the temple area and front of the hairline better.  As it was I did what I saw on a youtube video once: turned the bottle upside down, pressed it against my head and rubbed it around over the hair, instead of sprinkling.  This actually works well.  For the recent results without the concealer, I posted them on the previous page, towards the bottom of the posts on that tab.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by AB2000

[Melvin- Admin]

Looks good, is that with dermmatch and hair fibers or only hair fibers?

[AB2000]

Melvin - I edited my typo.  This was just Toppik fibers, not Dermatch.

[AB2000]

1 Year, 7 Months Post Op 4th HT:

Late in 2018 I went for a small procedure to see if adding arm hair could improve the density in the nape.  Scalp donor is very limited.  The clinic wasn't promising me results or driving this surgery, it was something I opted into and to take my chances.  It was 500 grafts, so if it didn't pan out the cost wouldn't be as huge.

With my hairloss pattern the receding hairline occurs in the nape as well, thinning out and balding upwards to the safe zone of a NW 6.  The hair is also losing colour, making it appear more depleted.  I use ControlGX from Just for Men to help with this issue, but as you will see further below, my current photos where I haven't been using it, the native nape is is grey and the transplanted arm hairs are dark brown, so you can see how the transplant went.

From the day of surgery and two months post op, here's a repost from earlier in the tread:

 

Over a year and a half later, the slow growing body hair transplants have manifested:

So in the end, I would say the procedure was a success.  I am unsure of the percentage of hairs made it and regrown, but they have had an impact on correcting my hairloss pattern and gives me the option to returning to this area for further work if needed.

These new photos were taken soon after my fifth HT when I went in for 3,000 grafts, and had my hair shaved down for the surgery.  Down the line I will make a post on that.

Edited July 29, 2020 by AB2000

[Al - Moderator]

It looks good. I'm in a similar situation and wondering what I can do with the nape area and the area just above my ears where there is hardly any hair anymore. I will certainly think about truing some arm hair at some point. You say you just had another 3000 grafts. Where were they taken from? I know you already had a lot of beard grafts and maybe chest grafts. How many body hair grafts are you up to now?

 

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by BeHappy

[AB2000]

20 hours ago, BeHappy said:

It looks good. I'm in a similar situation and wondering what I can do with the nape area and the area just above my ears where there is hardly any hair anymore. I will certainly think about truing some arm hair at some point. You say you just had another 3000 grafts. Where were they taken from? I know you already had a lot of beard grafts and maybe chest grafts. How many body hair grafts are you up to now?

 

 

The last surgery consisted of donors from a variety of areas - beard, scalp, arm, chest and back.  If I go again then I have at least 2,500 more from the beard that I can use, as well as more body hair.  The useful donors from my chest are mostly used up, so if I go with more body hair then it will be from the arms and back.  At some point I need to find out the exact break out of graft sources for my different hair transplants, but in aggregate is approximately 13k right now.

Not all sources are equal, or course.  FUE grafts from the scalp cancontain multiple hairs, whereas something from my arm will only be a single.  Also, body hair behaves different in that it will grow for a shorter period and go dormant more often, so it's not going to have the same impact. My recommendation for those who want BHT is to find a surgeon who has a good tool for extracting them and a track record with patient photos.  Body hairs grow out more angled than ones from the head an transection is a real problem, so it's best to go with someone who has expertise.  There appear to be a handful of clinics who fit that bill.

[Al - Moderator]

How did the back graft extraction go? True and Dorin tried a test on my back, but it didn't go well. I think he did about 20 attempts and only got 4 or 5 good grafts. Plus he said it was really tearing the flesh apart and he was afraid to try more for such a low yield if it was going to leave bad scars there. I may eventually have them try again with a different punch tip. I think he used a straight tip rather than a flared one, but I'm not positive. So far I've had a little over 4600 body hair grafts total splitting it almost even between chest and beard. I'd love to be able to get near 10,000 if I can. We discussed the possibility of using arm hair if we get to the point of not being able to get any more chest or beard hair.

 

[AB2000]

19 hours ago, BeHappy said:

How did the back graft extraction go? True and Dorin tried a test on my back, but it didn't go well. I think he did about 20 attempts and only got 4 or 5 good grafts. Plus he said it was really tearing the flesh apart and he was afraid to try more for such a low yield if it was going to leave bad scars there. I may eventually have them try again with a different punch tip. I think he used a straight tip rather than a flared one, but I'm not positive. So far I've had a little over 4600 body hair grafts total splitting it almost even between chest and beard. I'd love to be able to get near 10,000 if I can. We discussed the possibility of using arm hair if we get to the point of not being able to get any more chest or beard hair.

 

From what I can tell the grafts from the back went well, at least for the extraction process.  Down the line I will need to find out if these were placed somewhere specific in the recipient area to see how well they grow out, relative to other sources.  The appearance of the excision points appear larger than normal, but similar to those on my arm, from my last HT.  I expect these to heal similarly, in that that they take longer than those derived from the beard or head.  Even with past chest hair FUEs the scarring takes longer to heal up, weeks as I recall, for the red dots to disappear.

I don't know the reason why, but this past surgery was the one with the least amount of scabbing and crust.  The beard bounced back very fast and the scalp source and recipient areas only had small points of scabbing, barely any at all.  In previous HT's it took a number of days before all of it would heal enough and come off.  I wonder if it's the body becoming familiar with the "trauma" of this type procedure and not overreacting anymore.  I was beat up pretty good after the first HT.

The doctor says my back will yield 3,000 donor grafts in the future, so I take that to mean on his end of things he was able to get the grafts out safely.  The fact that the transplanted arm hair grew out was probably another good indicator that BHT will continue to work for me.

Edited July 31, 2020 by AB2000

[AB2000]

19 hours ago, BeHappy said:

So far I've had a little over 4600 body hair grafts total splitting it almost even between chest and beard. 

 

Have you posted your results in a thread?

[Baboon]

@AB2000 Thanks for sharing your results! Looks like you have covered really good on your head. Now obviously trying to increase the density further. 
 

From what l see from the pictures the BHT looks  really natural. They are a bit more curly compared to head hair, which at least to seems as your natural head hair also is curly? 
Seeing in real person, how natural do rate the BHT hairs, do you feel there is no or minor difference? Would be great to get your own assessment so far. 
 

thanks a lot! 

[AB2000]

On 8/1/2020 at 4:03 PM, Baboon said:

@AB2000 Thanks for sharing your results! Looks like you have covered really good on your head. Now obviously trying to increase the density further. 
 

From what l see from the pictures the BHT looks  really natural. They are a bit more curly compared to head hair, which at least to seems as your natural head hair also is curly? 
Seeing in real person, how natural do rate the BHT hairs, do you feel there is no or minor difference? Would be great to get your own assessment so far. 
 

thanks a lot! 

I don't notice a difference in native and BHT hairs in the nape, these feel the same.  When I grow out my hair I can feel the difference between beard and scalp hairs in the regular recipient areas, with beard being more coarse.  Visually I don't think there is much of a difference as my hair is somewhat frizzy anyway.  Chest hairs on the head look similar to when they grow out on the chest, so these are useful when mixing them into regular grafts.

[LonelyGraft]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop through all these years. How many grafts total have you had and how much has the journey roughly costed?

[AB2000]

I returned to the Dermhair Clinic for a fifth procedure this summer.  So far I have had two larger sessions and two smaller ones, for a total of approximately 10,000 grafts.  This new one was 3,000 taking place over three days.  Donor was derived from multiple sources - beard, some scalp, and body hair from chest, arms and some from the back.  I expect the latter to take time to see the results as BHT take longer to return from the dormant phase after surgery, plus any going into the crown take longer as well.  Full results will probably take longer than 12 months.

The grafts were placed from the front of the hairline back to the crown, rather than dumping all into the crown area.  I had been growing my hair long, and some extra hairs up front will contribute to covering when combing it back.

From the followup photos sent to the clinic I have about 3,000 more beard donors, plus about the same amount from the back.  Ample on arms as well.  The chest and scalp have been used as much as we are going to go.

5th HT, Day 1:

 

5th HT, Day 3:

[AB2000]

At this point of the recovery no scabbing is present.  Compared to earlier hair transplants with same clinic all of a sudden there was minimal crust after the surgery days, just dot sized pieces.  Not sure if it's my body responding differently to the same procedure or if there were new surgical tools and techniques.  Compared to the last large HT I had, over a couple of years ago, a new FUE punch came out, which may be why.  I'm not advertising a product, but I read about the Dr.UGraft device in a press release and it looks like it's made available to sale to other hair transplant surgeons as well.  It was a custom designed punch.

You can see below the amount of beard donor left over.

9 Days Post Op 5th HT:

Edited August 19, 2020 by AB2000

[AB2000]

One issue I have when the hair is this short is that the grey hair becomes a factor, as it's not as easy to conceal.  Normally I'd use Control GX from Just For Men, showering with it each day and the hair gradually regaining colour, but when the hair is buzzed it won't have the chance to take effect.  The greying pattern begins at the natural end of the temple area, goes above around the ears, and down under the safe area in the back of the head.  When viewed from a distance the grey hair might look more like a bald area.  With these transplants I am getting dark hair put ahead of the recessed temples to extend them, so that is noticeable too.  So if I go with short hair I need a way to colour the grey out than what I've been using so far.

My followup care requires that I don't use hair colour with dye in the recipient areas, so if I do use it around, in the donor parts, I have to be careful with the application. 

12 Days Post Op 5th HT:

 

Arm donor area:

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by AB2000

[AB2000]

The redness has gone down enough to do shaving with an electric buzzer without a guard.  The results of this last HT will take time to come, but even at this very early stage the appearance of a more full head of hair is there, low Norwood.  I don't prefer this hairstyle but the option is always there.  Once I start growing this out then the lack of density is evident.  The trick of transplantation is to use hair styling to make up for the amount of missing hairs that we can't possibly replace, even with surgery.  So there would be an ugly duckling phase from this point until it grows long enough to comb around a bit and cover the skin better.

7 Weeks Post Op 5th HT:

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by AB2000

[AB2000]

[LonelyGraft]

Is that Vaseline they applied all over the donor and recipient immediately post op?

[AB2000]

4 hours ago, LonelyGraft said:

Is that Vaseline they applied all over the donor and recipient immediately post op?

Biafine/avo cream.  After surgery it was applied to donor and recipient areas.  The post op care was to apply it just to the recipient for a week and to use Aquaphor to the donor.

[Melvin- Admin]

Everything looks good, but I would upload the pictures directly to our site, instead of using photobucket. Our updated automatically embedded. 

[Al - Moderator]

I'm glad you had more put in the front as I felt your hairline area really needed a bit more. I can't wait to see this once it's grown in.

 

[Pangloss]

On 7/31/2020 at 1:38 PM, AB2000 said:

From what I can tell the grafts from the back went well, at least for the extraction process.  Down the line I will need to find out if these were placed somewhere specific in the recipient area to see how well they grow out, relative to other sources.  ...

The doctor says my back will yield 3,000 donor grafts in the future, so I take that to mean on his end of things he was able to get the grafts out safely.  The fact that the transplanted arm hair grew out was probably another good indicator that BHT will continue to work for me.

Interesting as I specifically recall reading, in one of Dr. Umar's papers, that he had a low survival rate with back hairs and said that they should not be used.

Another doctor in India told me that the back is not preferred because it scars badly.

[AB2000]

On 8/3/2020 at 1:52 AM, LonelyGraft said:

Thanks for keeping us in the loop through all these years. How many grafts total have you had and how much has the journey roughly costed?

This has been 13k grafts.  Contact the clinic for a consultation to obtain their pricing.

[Britanium]

Wow what a amazing case yours is. Shows there is hope for people who have exhausted there usual scalp donor area.

I am going to look to my beard for my next Ht when I’m able to travel again.

Looking at your results give me great hope ! After approx 9000 grafts already i needed another reliable source. BHT is the way forward.

cant wait for further updates on your unique case.