faking the number of grafts?

[partnerfue]

Please reread my posts, I am not really remarking on the cosmetic quality of the clinic's work. There are literally hundreds of posts documenting the great work they have done and you can see all the photographs in those. If money is no option, then you aren't going to go wrong at this clinic. My husband is mostly happy with his procedure in terms of cosmetics and is hoping it will go from the "good work" to "great" over the next 6 months since he is only at the 12 month mark. However, could you get the exact same quality work for "less grafts"/cheaper? That is one of the points of the issue i originally posted and was trying to figure out.

[wibbles180]

 

 

Was this not used when your husband had his procedure ?

[hsrp10]

Please reread my posts, I am not really remarking on the cosmetic quality of the clinic's work. There are literally hundreds of posts documenting the great work they have done and you can see all the photographs in those. If money is no option, then you aren't going to go wrong at this clinic. My husband is mostly happy with his procedure in terms of cosmetics and is hoping it will go from the "good work" to "great" over the next 6 months since he is only at the 12 month mark. However, could you get the exact same quality work for "less grafts"/cheaper? That is one of the points of the issue i originally posted and was trying to figure out.

 

My post may have sounded somewhat like a rant lol - I was a bit frustrated with them not budging on their graft estimate cause I actually really like ASMED's results - but I was more or less agreeing with you..

[richter101]

Hi Doc!

 

Well speaking as a guy who got 2200 while much of time using the ARTAS robot, from a top Surgeon.. and it took 12 hours..

 

I may have to take your side unless the total surgery time was closer to 17 hours......

[Toby78]

Giving this thread a nudge... what was the conclusion here? I was considering this clinic but now reading this thread it has me wondering a bit.

[MrScott]

Just found this thread. I'm very interested in finding out my situation. I just had a Artas HT 12/15/16 that was supposed to be 2000 grafts. I was quoted that it would be 1750-2000 and wanting more coverage I asked if they could do 2000. I paid on the day of surgery before the procedure. No count was done that was relayed to me after surgery. I do remember the count being done with the Artas robot but I have no idea if 2000 grafts made it into my head. On Day 3 I was inspecting my incisions and trying to do a rough count and it seems to me that I don't have 2000 scabs. I am going to go back to my pictures and see if I can get an accurate count. I did text the doctor asking if there were multiple follicles in each incision and he simply replied "yes". No further discussion or clarification was given. I'm not ready to push the matter but feel I might not have received the 2000 that I paid for.

[WillHT]

I'd be interested in the outcome here as well. Hope its not true but I will keep an open mind.

 

At the moment there is not one shred of proof though, so until that arrives I will discount this. Also why would Asmed develop an app to count grafts?.

 

From my short time on the forum its appears Asmed uses higher graft quotes than others. Surely this is for improved results rather than making more money as all he would need to do is raise the cost per graft and use less.

 

I am still leaning towards booking with Asmed but I think it will hinge on how much remaining donor hair would be left to achieve a decent outcome. I'll keep researching in the meantime.

Edited January 9, 2017 by WillHT

[Toby78]

I'm inclined to agree with you WillHT. There are numerous favourable reviews of ASMED erdogan, they have a graft calculator and it would would seem silly for them to jeopardise their reputation by overcharging number of grafts performed. They are also a recommended clinic on this forum. However partnerfue is quite careful in the statements made and I was hoping partnerfue may be able to provide clarification or evidence...

 

Anyway it does however raise an interesting point and concern generally for patients undergoing HT -or had HTs such as MrScott - given the business model is widely charged per graft how does a layperson actually know they received grafts numbers invoiced for?

[mikeyhwk]

 

From my short time on the forum its appears Asmed uses higher graft quotes than others. Surely this is for improved results rather than making more money as all he would need to do is raise the cost per graft and use less.

 

 

I have no opinion on whether they fake counts or whatever, never used them don't have a clue.

 

I think it is naive however to say that if all they wanted was more money that they could just raise the prices and keep their estimates lower and balance out that way. Reality is that would kill their bottom line. He is a talented doc who does great work so he will always have work but a big draw is you can get extra grafts, still save pretty big money from having to go to Belgium, and huge money on going to Spain or the US. You're essentially getting a top 5 fue doc for pennies on the dollar. Take away that incentive and you would eat into his business significantly. Furthermore given the instability in Turkey, he's already probably seeing a slow down, make him go head to head with other comparable docs on price and he's in an unfavorable situation. It's easier for him to price himself lower and make it back on volume, than it is to just charge more. The client feels better about it too, at the end of the day he can go to Belgium and get 2k grafts or he can go to turkey and get 3k grafts and spend the same and in theory get more hair out of it if the graft counts are accurate. If you have the grafts it's a pretty sexy offer.

[hsrp10]

It's easier for him to price himself lower and make it back on volume, than it is to just charge more.

 

The more you look into it and talk to many other patients about their graft estimates given compared to other clinics, it is becoming obvious at least to me that this is what is going on.

 

Anyway the results are there and patients are happy.

It's important for potential patients to know what is going on though.

[JohnCasper]

I'm sure if you used a reputable surgeon recommended on this site...you are fine. When I had my surgeries I recall watching a large electronic count board on the wall and casually keeping track of my grafts. I also recall drifting off to sleep for a while and waking up and noticing that I was asleep for the placement of several hundred grafts. I would think visible counters are a standard practice but maybe not for some doctors. Post some pictures if you can.

[BaldingBogger]

Interesting topic. Ive suspected clinics have been doing this frequently. Charging for a couple of hundred extra here and there. I think it happened on my procedures as i did some counting post op also.

 

Didn't raise it though. Very hard to prove.

[MrScott]

Here are my pictures before, after procedure. Not sure if scab count is truly accurate for how many grafts went in? I've done my best to count my scabs and get a very low number, 1000ish, which can't be right(I hope). Also the doc told me he would do 20-25 grafts per sq cm, there seems to be too few boxes on the before surgery drawing to accomodate 200 grafts. Glad to hear any thoughts good or bad