faking the number of grafts?

[partnerfue]

I would go with Dr Lorenzo 2500 graft count.

[YouOnlyLiveOnce]

The number Dr. Erdogan recommends isn't necessarily what you'll be receiving. You'll have an in house consultation the day before your surgery where he'll go over expectations, your hair characteristics, depth of hair loss and donor quality and come up with a game plan. It's a pretty thorough process. In my opinion the amenities his clinic provides is overkill, but in a positive way.

 

Also, I really doubt he's being dishonest with graft count. He could easily raise his price if was trying to make extra money.

 

He does shoot a little high on graft count, but I think its because he's looking for home runs every time. I had a surgery with Dr. Hasson and I always felt "damn, if he was a little more aggressive, I would be happy with my hairline forever'

[waittosee]

Unless you have an in person consultations with the clinics, those numbers mean nothing. It is very difficult the assess all the characteristics of your hair loss with online photos. If you know what kind of transplant you want just do the math on your own by multiplying number of grafts with the cm2 of the area.

 

Asmed tries to achieve at least 50 graft/cm2 ratio, to do that they may be implanting 55-60 grafts per cm2. hence more graft estimations. This is what I got from my consultation.

[jj2000]

This whole thread raises an interesting question.

 

I'm still very new to the HT world, but it seems that there aren't any checks and balances in place to verify the number of grafts vs what was actually billed. Am I safe in assuming that?

 

I imagine to the trained eye (including many of the senior folks on this forum) would be able to garner rough guesses based on pictures, but beyond that, are there any other verification methods?

[wibbles180]

And then partner fue dissapears , seems like her partner is either now happy or it was an intentional smear

[Chewy]

As my pal Scooby Doo would say:

PartnerFue... where are you??????!!!!!!

[partnerfue]

It was not an intentional smear. I wanted to give it nearly a year. I would say the quality of work is good (not great) but that is very different from graft number discrepancy. I am still convinced the graft count was not accurate. Hopefully my husband will not have to return for any repeat procedures but i would consider looking elsewhere if he does.

[wibbles180]

And still no evidence ?

[partnerfue]

What evidence exactly would you like? All I was suggesting is that people be vigilant about "dense" packing.

 

If it were merely a smear campaign then the surgeon would have been named in my initial post.

 

I was trying to understand the process and to see if anyone had any similar experiences.

[aWidowsPeek]

Just ignore all of the morons on here partnerfue.

[hsrp10]

The number Dr. Erdogan recommends isn't necessarily what you'll be receiving. You'll have an in house consultation the day before your surgery where he'll go over expectations, your hair characteristics, depth of hair loss and donor quality and come up with a game plan. It's a pretty thorough process. In my opinion the amenities his clinic provides is overkill, but in a positive way.

 

Also, I really doubt he's being dishonest with graft count. He could easily raise his price if was trying to make extra money.

 

He does shoot a little high on graft count, but I think its because he's looking for home runs every time. I had a surgery with Dr. Hasson and I always felt "damn, if he was a little more aggressive, I would be happy with my hairline forever'

 

Unfortunately they apparently do not budge once the initial graft estimate has been made and sent by e-mail, even when I told them how much my anticipated remaining donor was, they still persisted with an estimate that was over my stated donor supply (with the acknowledged caveat that actual donor inspection was required as stated above).

 

For others who have gone with them, if you end up having less grafts than their initial estimate, do they still try to make you pay for the higher graft amount?

 

If it's their way of ensuring a "minimum surgery charge" then I can somewhat understand. Otherwise I'm not ever going with them, as I don't want to end up paying for more grafts than needed and or being talked into a surgery approaching over-harvesting.

[wibbles180]

What evidence exactly would you like? All I was suggesting is that people be vigilant about "dense" packing.

 

If it were merely a smear campaign then the surgeon would have been named in my initial post.

 

I was trying to understand the process and to see if anyone had any similar experiences.

 

Pictures are usually sufficient

[wibbles180]

Unfortunately they apparently do not budge once the initial graft estimate has been made and sent by e-mail, even when I told them how much my anticipated remaining donor was, they still persisted with an estimate that was over my stated donor supply (with the acknowledged caveat that actual donor inspection was required as stated above).

 

For others who have gone with them, if you end up having less grafts than their initial estimate, do they still try to make you pay for the higher graft amount?

 

If it's their way of ensuring a "minimum surgery charge" then I can somewhat understand. Otherwise I'm not ever going with them, as I don't want to end up paying for more grafts than needed and or being talked into a surgery approaching over-harvesting.

 

I was origionally quoted the usual 4500 but when I went for live consultation the numbers actually dropped , I'm currently emailing to see if I can drop the numbers even further and it's looking very promising , despite what a lot of people think Asmed are very cooperative with patients plans and don't just blast 5000 grafts into everybody , the only real way to get definite numbers is to have a live consultation pictures only give an idea of hairloss patterns they don't allow for caliber or donor density etc .

[partnerfue]

Just because asmed is stating they will drop the count it doesn't mean they won't be inaccurate with the graft count.

[hsrp10]

I was origionally quoted the usual 4500 but when I went for live consultation the numbers actually dropped , I'm currently emailing to see if I can drop the numbers even further and it's looking very promising , despite what a lot of people think Asmed are very cooperative with patients plans and don't just blast 5000 grafts into everybody , the only real way to get definite numbers is to have a live consultation pictures only give an idea of hairloss patterns they don't allow for caliber or donor density etc .

 

Yeah but my real question is are they going to try to make patients pay for the initial graft count, even if the actual grafts received is lower?

 

The emails I had say the "price won't change" even if fewer grafts are used, and I tried to get exact clarification if they were talking about the rate per graft and if the price of the surgery would be less, to which they said repeatedly the price would not change.

 

I like their aggressive approach (I need some minor work on my lower temple points which I hope to close aggressively) but honestly with everything going on in Turkey and that area, I was looking at them because I thought they were "affordable." But I'm not going with them if they are inflating the graft count and ultimately the price as well.

[wibbles180]

Just because asmed is stating they will drop the count it doesn't mean they won't be inaccurate with the graft count.[/quote

 

Do you have post op pictures ?? If you could post a picture of post op it will surely be easy to see the difference between 3000 grafts you paid for and the 1500 you claimed your husband received ? Thanks

[Zim]

Unfortunately they apparently do not budge once the initial graft estimate has been made and sent by e-mail, even when I told them how much my anticipated remaining donor was, they still persisted with an estimate that was over my stated donor supply (with the acknowledged caveat that actual donor inspection was required as stated above).

 

For others who have gone with them, if you end up having less grafts than their initial estimate, do they still try to make you pay for the higher graft amount?

 

If it's their way of ensuring a "minimum surgery charge" then I can somewhat understand. Otherwise I'm not ever going with them, as I don't want to end up paying for more grafts than needed and or being talked into a surgery approaching over-harvesting.

 

Damn this is disappointing to read. I really want to go to ASMED but I can't be dropping half my donor supply on my hairline. Erdogan always uses more than any other clinic I've seen. His hairline work is so good though. I wanted to hear that they would be willing to compromise on graft count, I'm thinking sensibly and planning for future loss/procedures but I guess they need huge graft counts for that dense-packed hairline.

[wibbles180]

Zim , go for a live consultation next time Asmed are in London I think you will be surprised how flexible they can be .

[DEB1982]

I wouldn't discount Asmed based on this discussion alone. For a start although the OP heavily implies that it is Dr Erdogan we still haven't had confirmation from her.

 

I was booked in initially for FUE with H&W but changed to Asmed after doing more research and utilising this forum regularly. They did quote 500 grafts more than H&W quoted but I do believe they are more aggressive in their approach and accepted this.

 

Every case that I have reviewed and followed thus far on Asmed has been exceptional and I would base your opinion on this fact. My surgery isn't until next month but what I can tell you is that the service that I have received so far from the staff there has been second to none.

 

I have also seen photos of their patented graft calculator which counts your grafts as they are extracted and you can watch this live on the TV monitor during the surgery. Why do this if they were misleading people?

[partnerfue]

Yes, I will now confirm i was referring to asmed. Note that just because there may be discrepancies in graft count, it doesn't change the fact that he produces good results. The two issues are separate. My husband was not able to watch the extraction/counting process. I wasn't in the room with him but apparently he was only given the option to watch movies.

 

As for photos, we only have the professional photos taken by asmed, which were enlarged and used to count using a pixel counter, as well as a dermatology grade magnifying glass on the actual scalp. He prefers i not post the asmed photos (maybe he's overthinking it) since if asmed really wanted to go through the photos, they could identify him and refuse any future service. We will likely use a different surgeon but he wants to keep the option open. Obviously i will respect his privacy. This surgeon provides good results but we are not yet convinced they are superior to some comparable surgeons that quote lower graft counts. Would you go wrong cosmetically by going to asmed? most likely not. Are you going to pay more for arguably the same quality work as some of the other top surgeons? most likely yes.

[DEB1982]

Yes, I will now confirm i was referring to asmed. Note that just because there may be discrepancies in graft count, it doesn't change the fact that he produces good results. The two issues are separate. My husband was not able to watch the extraction/counting process. I wasn't in the room with him but apparently he was only given the option to watch movies.

 

As for photos, we only have the professional photos taken by asmed, which were enlarged and used to count using a pixel counter, as well as a dermatology grade magnifying glass on the actual scalp. He prefers i not post the asmed photos (maybe he's overthinking it) since if asmed really wanted to go through the photos, they could identify him and refuse any future service. We will likely use a different surgeon but he wants to keep the option open. Obviously i will respect his privacy. This surgeon provides good results but we are not yet convinced they are superior to some comparable surgeons that quote lower graft counts. Would you go wrong cosmetically by going to asmed? most likely not. Are you going to pay more for arguably the same quality work as some of the other top surgeons? most likely yes.

 

 

I personally think it is really unfair to post something like this without providing photo evidence as it makes readers (including myself) anxious about upcoming procedures.

 

You aren't necessarily going to pay more as the charge per graft is lower than many other comparable surgeons.

 

The fact your husband wants to keep his option open and potentially still consider Dr Erdogan again can only mean he is happy with the outcome.

[wibbles180]

Yes, I will now confirm i was referring to asmed. Note that just because there may be discrepancies in graft count, it doesn't change the fact that he produces good results. The two issues are separate. My husband was not able to watch the extraction/counting process. I wasn't in the room with him but apparently he was only given the option to watch movies.

 

As for photos, we only have the professional photos taken by asmed, which were enlarged and used to count using a pixel counter, as well as a dermatology grade magnifying glass on the actual scalp. He prefers i not post the asmed photos (maybe he's overthinking it) since if asmed really wanted to go through the photos, they could identify him and refuse any future service. We will likely use a different surgeon but he wants to keep the option open. Obviously i will respect his privacy. This surgeon provides good results but we are not yet convinced they are superior to some comparable surgeons that quote lower graft counts. Would you go wrong cosmetically by going to asmed? most likely not. Are you going to pay more for arguably the same quality work as some of the other top surgeons? most likely yes.

 

This is now just getting silly , you were allegedly ripped off to the tune of 4000 euros but would still potentially use the same doctor ! Surely you took your own personal pictures as your husbands progress developed especially if you thought you had been short changed ???

[hsrp10]

I wouldn't discount Asmed based on this discussion alone.

 

I don't think anyone is trying to discount them at all, conversely most of us are giving them the benefit of the doubt based on their solid reputation and recommended status here.

 

I just want to know what is going on with their graft estimate process and how it relates to the final pricing.

[Zim]

I don't think anyone is trying to discount them at all, conversely most of us are giving them the benefit of the doubt based on their solid reputation and recommended status here.

 

I just want to know what is going on with their graft estimate process and how it relates to the final pricing.

 

I agree. I don't question the quality of their results. I just don't understand why they use so many more grafts for the same result. Its all very well saying its cheaper, but donor hair is a more valuable resource than money.

[hsrp10]

So as a hard-core HT veteran I have been researching ASMED very seriously over the past weeks looking over maybe 100's of results literally

 

I'm having a hard time finding any published low-graft count procedures, almost all procedures seem to be at least 2,000 or more and the lowest ones I could find were 1,800 grafts.

Maybe the OP is correct, my gut feeling is that since almost every graft estimate patients get from them is much higher than other clinics across the board, something must be going on with their graft estimate process.

 

As someone who is looking for a small last procedure with maybe 1,500 grafts remaining - meaning I don't want to try to blast my head with 2,000 grafts - I think I may have researched myself out from having a procedure with them.

Though I'm sure they are super for larger cases requiring higher graft amounts.