mikeyhwk

Great result already. Congrats. If I could ask a question, did the dr give you any indication as to your total donor supply and can we see your donor now.

Hey Jean, I don't have a dedicated thread, I value my privacy but I've shared my pictures with a few posters who have asked and if you'd like to see my evolution i'd be happy to show you a few pics, just pm me. Going into my first op the docs had me down as a 3v but I'm a diffuse loss patient so while loss wasn't hugely evident outside the 3v pattern, we know our hair and i could tell density was down thru the midscalp as well. That loss just wasn't showing thru like the 3v pattern that had emerged. I was projected to be a nw 4 without meds. My first op was hairline with Dr Bisanga, and that was 2500 grafts. My 2nd op was 900 crown and 1200 midscalp for 2100 total with Dr Lorenzo. As it is I have full coverage, in normal lighting I have the illusion of a full head of hair but the density and blending could be improved. Dr Erdogan and Lorenzo both use the coverage value system so as long as they use it the same way the numbers should help clarify what I'm saying, my real recipient coverage value for hairline is 7.2 and my crown is 6.3 so i'm trying to get that better balanced as you can see how thick the hairline is and how it tapers going back. I've got according to their numbers another almost 13k grafts in the bank... I can only hope that's right lol. I knew I'd be back in for a 3rd procedure, I had talked to Lorenzo about it prior my 2nd op about the best game plan and he said we could go for a higher graft count but he likes to go in stages in the event there is exactly what you said some smaller micro issues that arise after the 2nd that may need addressing, we felt like if there was I'd be back a third time anyway so lets do it in stages. Now he can go in and just boost density and this last op should last me a long time...I will be glad not to have to do this again for a while. Dr L thinks I'm good with another 1k grafts but I'm pushing for 2k min, preferably more...my feeling is if im going thru this process and shaving my head again lets make it worthwhile, I don't want to be thinking I could use a little more in a couple years...if his estimate is right and i've got near 13k grafts what am I saving them for lets get that density, I'm on dut and my worst case progression isn't that bad, might as well put them to work. You should be in a great position after this op, you might have some micro issues, that's just the reality with transplanted hair, it's never perfect for us hair obsessed but that you can live with a while, most likely. I hope you find the break after this one that I've been unable to find... I never thought when this all started that i'd be planning my 3rd op in as many years :eek: I will be watching your case, wish you the best result!!

oops I forgot to answer the where am I getting my third op done, same place I got my 2nd op. With Dr Lorenzo in Madrid

I'm not sure where you got that H&W hairlines weren't aggressive, Dr Hassons hairline work is immaculate and as long as your donor can handle your current level of loss and going forward he can deliver a hairline as aggressive as any doc I've seen in the industry. I think Diep has built a reputation for hairlines as he tends to draw younger patients like HT which I believe is in part due to HT, he did absolutely fantastic work on HT that many young patients wanted similar. The legend of Dr Diep hairline whisperer was largely built in HTs first thread lol but he's backed it up with similar excellent results. Both docs do great hairline work. I have seen a couple cases of some donor issues, one stands out recently in Diep cases but I am weary to pin that on poor extraction as it seemed the patient didn't have a lot of density to begin with, lots of coarse hair but overall his extractions have looked good to me. You're picking between 2 great docs, comes down to gut feel and preference, which one are you feeling, you're unlikely to pick wrong.

I hear ya, the procedure itself is not fun, it's not that it's painful for a long period just the shaving down and going thru it and then going thru the regrowth period and the will it yield well won't it, it's just a lot of hassle to keep putting yourself thru. Turkey is probably among your best bang for the buck in terms of value, you can get some good work for cheap but you can also be royally screwed, it is really the wild west out there, there is little rules and regulation and very little honor among thieves. We've seen it on this forum but it's present on others too that clinics send employees to post up rave reviews, that's why we really push for long track records and are generally untrusting of clinics with very few patient experience logs, it's so hard to know who to trust. I can't say I know anything of the 2 Turkish clinics you mentioned, again that isn't to say they're good or bad, just unknowns. I mentioned the clinics I did in Turkey because they've stood the test of time. Dr Pekkiner is the best value and that's because he himself is relatively new but he has apprenticed under 2 of the bigger names in Turkey and is entirely hands on, you know what you're getting with him. When going to tech mills, you need to know not just the doc, even tho they are rarely involved, but it is because they are rarely involved you have to know what the qualifications of the techs are. When you're dealing with the low priced options, how much do you trust the tech training, how much do you trust that the tech has experience, how much turnover do you think that clinic has paying techs so little, once they have experience do they move on? how much can you trust that you can get the same result as a guy years before you if the team involved isn't the same...I know you're wanting to save here but you're playing with fire and that makes me nervous. I don't recommend any doctor I wouldn't trust my own scalp to so I won't recommend any of these low end clinics as they're just endless questions to me. In Turkey I gave you the names I could personally trust but the choice is ultimately yours and you have to feel confident in it, if you find one of these lower priced options could be your clinic that's your call. I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide!

My apologies Wayne, I made a bad assumption you were talking just a normal pony tail which tends to be on the looser side, most don't tie to the tightness that is necessary for traction alopecia so my mind didn't even go there but as the others brought up correctly, it is possible if you tie it tight enough on a consistent basis. Sorry for the incorrect info.

Well that is disappointing to hear about hdc as based on the work I had seen I thought for the price they were a solid choice but that they didn't do what you wanted and agreed upon and the standards not good, that is very disappointing. Unfortunately even after a couple cases sometimes goals aren't met, I've had 2 world class docs and I'm still heading in for a third procedure. I am happy now and the third is more just a luxury as I have lots of grafts available and I got hair greed but I couldn't say it's perfect now, still some minor fixes and that I think is just the reality of transplants you're always going to want a little more but what I'm getting and talking about, that's different from not getting what you asked for and was agreed upon. As for Dr Griffiths, as I said, I don't know him so I can't say good or bad but unknowns make me nervous and if you're down to your last 2k, they should make you nervous. When I hear a clinic say they prefer google/facebook ads, my initial thought is they are trying to get the budget shopper and not the quality shopper...and that is not how we should be picking docs. I know that budget has to be a consideration for many but largely you get what you pay for. Spain isn't as cheap a place to hire techs as Turkey or India so if they can compete on price with those regions you should be nervous until you can verify they do quality work. The clinic is right the forums do charge to be there but to be fair a good clinic will make that money back many times over if they do good work. Nowhere will they build up bigger word of mouth than a forum, all the top clinics are represented somewhere, they may not all be here but they'll be on the Italian, Spanish, Eurocentric forums or they'll be here and not there...if you're not on a forum and your reputation doesn't already precede you, your work usually isn't up to par and you're trying to compete on price. If you got a house in Spain there are great Spanish options but not at the price point of an hdc or below unfortunately. If you can get your price point higher than I would look into Lorenzo/Villas or Meyer/Alcaide (from Bisangas Spanish branch) if you're patient you could try to wait out Dr DeFreitas but hes a couple years out, I don't think Couto is worth even mentioning anymore. If price is a factor I would get my butt to Turkey if I were you, Erdogan, Keser, Pekkiner, you got 2k left, put them to use with some sure hands.

I spend a lot of time on the spanish forums and that is a name I have not seen make the rounds much at all. Every once in a while somebody will mention it to find out info but its hard to come by patients. That is not to say he is not good or bad just an unknown. which unfortunately may as well be bad as going into op 3 your margin for error has to be low. HDC does very nice work, why are you not looking at them any longer? is it strictly price? I know you don't want to fly as well and I get the hassle there but if you're looking to save money and not go to Turkey you don't have a lot of options. The best docs in spain aren't cheap, Belgium is priced higher than hdc as well so your options bottom out quickly without Turkey or hdc

Dr Lorenzos techs go thru an insanely rigorous training process. One of the pen loader techs told me she trained for 6 months just on loading the pen before she got to be a part of an op team, she said she was just loading cotton into a pen over and over for 6 months lol and they're literally just loading the pen for Dr Lorenzo...if you're doing anything that touches the patient which is just extraction with Dr L as he implants himself, the process is longer... Grace has been with Dr Lorenzo since he was in England, years, she was first a pen loader as that's the first level but she has moved on to doing extractions. After sufficient time as a pen loader and proving themsleves to Dr Lorenzo they can choose to undergo the next step and learn extracting which is again a lengthy process, not every tech makes it to extraction nor do all who train make it as an extractor on patients. He is a great dude but the ultimate perfectionist, if you're not good enough you don't get near a patient. He told me if his extraction team wasn't as good as he was at it, he wouldn't let them do it so trust they're fully qualified and trained. His teams don't have a high turnover like some other clinics so he's had largely the same team in place for a long time. Grace did half of my extractions and she is great.

1. I'm a diffuse thinner with good results. Ive gotten to know many others as I've mentioned on here that I'm a diffuse thinner and they've reached out to me and kept in touch after their ops. There are lots of successful cases of diffuse users but before we go any further you need to clarify what type of diffuse patient you are as there is a patient who is ideal as a diffuse patient and one who is not. If you are a diffuse unpatterned patient then you are diffusing from all over your scalp donor included and that unfortunately makes you not a good candidate for transplant surgery. If you are like me, and are a patterned diffuse patient then your donor isn't prone to minaturization and loss and you would be a candidate. Not to promote just my doctor but I know he has a lot of presented cases, look at dr Lorenzos youtube channel and he makes note of the diffuse patients and you can see the results. 2. We have the same factors as any other patient, there is nothing that changes our density any differently than another patients, it comes down to your own characteristics and how many grafts/cm2 your doc places. 3. As you mentioned, get on and stay on meds if your body tolerates it, we have a better than average response to fin/dut and pick the right doctor. Experience with diffuse patients is a must, ask to see work they've done with them. If they don't have it, move on, you don't want to be their test case, no matter how much you like their hairline work or crown work what have you. You want to see cases like yourself. We're not wildly different to work on but we are prone to more shock loss and transection in our recipient so if a doc isn't experienced with that you could see less than optimal results.

The carriers are mainly the same and the base ingredient is minox so there should be very little difference other than percentage and other throw in ingredients. Some like to hype up that their brand has other hair loss fighting products but minox is the one that has the testing and approval behind it so if you find it's working for you, just pick another topical minox and go with it, shouldn't be any drop off in performance.

While the other 2 are right about topical minox being approved and safer than the oral, I have heard from a couple members about oral minox being far more effective in terms of results. I can only speak to the topical thru personal experience and I found it useless and a nuisance. There was a doctor Dr Path in Thailand, who I'm not sure is still approved here or not, that used to recommend oral minox to his patients. Under a drs supervision you can get it approved for off label use, much in the same way dutasteride gets scripted for hair loss while technically not approved for that. I would only use it under a drs guidance tho as it can play with your blood pressure and cause headaches so it's best somebody monitor that and make sure you're using it safely if you decide to try that road.

oh good this again.

Congrats Melvin, htsoon, ive always found you to be objective honest and you've added a lot to this forum witg your own experiences. You'll be a great fit for the team running the forum.

bingo. I don't know how many guys have written me asking if they should get their deposits back or cancel their ops with excellent docs cause this advisors scared them into thinking their hairlines are going to be all multi hair grafts. He's found a talking point and he's exploiting it... there is some degree of truth to what he says which I guess frees his conscience of thinking he's acting in a self serving manner.

I talked with him a few times, the problem was that I couldn't find a lot of work, he spent his first few years working for another clinic and was unable to take his catalog of results with him so just getting patient reports was tough. He was such a new clinic at that time. This was a couple years back so maybe there is more to see these days but he seems very competent and ethical. He is passionate about hair transplantation and was happy to answer all my questions, as a person I couldn't say enough good things about him but I just couldn't find enough results to feel confident in using him. Dr Maras is quality tho, his work and results have been consistently top notch for a long time.

You have to look into clinics that have that model...Dr Konior isn't the doc you'd go to if you needed mega session work via fue...and you don't go to Erdogan if you just want to fine tune your hairline. Erdogans clinic can get you to a very good hairline from your starting point but if it doesn't get you all the way you may need to bring in a closer to finish the work. A number of us have talked about the idea that there isn't a best doctor but there could be a best doctor for your particular needs. If you're a nw 5 and you need to cover a lot of real estate and make sure it grows and want it done via fue who better to go to than Erdogan...if you end up at a nw 2.5 after one run with him and just need to finish it off, maybe you don't head back to him but go to a Konior type and end up with the best of both worlds, coverage + refinement at a savings. If you're asking me who I think are doctors similar to Koniors approach in Europe. Dr Keser who has the exact same approach, entirely hands on, stick and place and sticks to nw 3 type cases. Dr Pekkiner is the same as well, stick and place, hands on, he's newer on the scene but a name you'll be hearing a lot in a few years i suspect. Dr DeFreitas in Spain, his hairline work is immaculate.

Dr Bisanga told me no surgeries for 6 months post op. I was going to have my shoulder scoped just under 4 weeks later and I had to reschedule. They just thought my body didn't need any other stressors so close to the transplant. I don't know what other doctors feel about it but that was my experience

so the Euro docs who get better results aren't looking out for patients donors or futures, that's what you'd like us to believe? Dr Lorenzo, Bisanga, Feriduni, Couto, DeFreitas, Keser are leaving wakes of mangled donors and patients hooped in their future progression??? not even close... They get less wow results in the us cause they're not as good across the board as the Euro docs. You got maybe 2 docs in the us who can match Euro fue results at best. These Euro docs aren't using numbers outside the numbers the American docs are and the donor areas are immaculate and they are all (the ones mentioned) highly ethical docs. Even Erdogan, who uses higher graft counts right off the bat than most docs, have you read his patient reports? do you see how often the patients getting these large counts still have huge numbers in the bank, almost universally. The doctor takes big numbers because he can get big numbers. Lorenzo and Erdogan have set the standard among fue docs in their ability to maximize grafts. I've found that many American docs are taking a we'll see approach as to how many grafts they can get, they have a ball park idea but they can't be sure, they play it safe cause they're not sure...as the procedures roll along that number clears up as the visual makes it clear for them, that's why you see so often when somebody asks in a patient report how many grafts did you doc say you have left, they'll quote a number and then the next procedure they were able to draw out 1500 more than they thought...the docs figuring it out on the fly... but with the coverage value system, Erdogan and Lorenzo know from jump what they can get and they plan with those numbers in mind so it isn't as reckless as you're thinking it is. It just sounds scarier to you because he's comfortable jumping in higher than another doc may be. I'm speaking strictly fue here.

beautiful result, density is impressive, nice work from this clinic again.

well you said you were here to study options and now you say you've booked but whatever the case best of luck in your transplant! I hope you do share your patient experience here, if this doctor is good and you get an excellent result it will only help others to see it play out with an updated log of your journey.

haha, if you think you're greedy now wait til after the 10 month mark. You'll have more density than now and be infinitely happier but still not happy enough lol...that's when the true greed kicks in. I'm 2 in and got a full head of hair and I'm still wanting a third....the goal posts just keep moving...the waiting is brutal, everybody warns you about the ugly duckling so you're ready for that but the waiting for the characteristics to kick in can be just as draining but in an entirely different way, the duckling you know you're gonna look like shit but when its thin it's stressing you never know if it'll get to where you hope it will but rest assured better is coming.

I can't say you'll get the density you'll be happy with but it's very common to go thru what you're going thru. As the hair sprouts it comes out thin and weak, it does appear to lack density but over the next few months you'll find the texture and characteristics of the hairs will change and it will look and act more like your natural hair. Improved density will come with that. So it will get better...how much depends on how good the yield was. If you yielded well and the doc gave you adequate coverage, the next few months should make a big difference in the density department. That has how both of my procedures went. 1 for hairline, 1 for crown, both looked to be lacking density early and by months 8-12 very happy

DO NOT put words in my mouth, I said he has a small following on the italian forum, he is NOT the most popular doctor with Italians, the majority are still using better known world respected surgeons, what Dr Aygin is, is cheap and that will attract the desperate but he isn't getting the guys who aren't budget conscious...and please stop trying to sell him as the choice of the fashionable Italians, you're coming across as a shill. He is a non option to the Spaniards, they have the best docs in the world on their doorstep...a few might consider him if they are the financially challenged but he's not even on the radar for most that is fact. Don't be naively fooled into thinking the guarantee means you're getting excellent work. Every clinic says these kind of things. You're going to a tech mill with techs of unknown experience, if they butcher you once, what good does them saying come in a 2nd time let us use up the rest of your donors do for you? I'm not saying they will but you have to understand that their goal is to get you in the door and extract money, if the clinic is honorable they stand behind you good or bad but the bad ones you have little recourse with and they can promise you the moon...it's the wild west in turkey, trust the track records not the words. We trust forum reviews here not words of a friend because we can't authenticate if you have a friend or not but somebody sharing their patient experience is unbiased, they went to the doctor and they are giving you the good the bad and the ugly...if it turns out great we see it unfold if it doesn't we see that too. I have to say, you don't sound like you're here studying your options it sounds like you're here promoting...every time somebody questions anything about this doc you have an answer...everything brought up by the members has been a legit concern and you return to your talking points...if you want to use him and you feel comfortable the best thing you can do is go use him and come back and post your patient experience, let the work speak for him, but don't try to sell him with the everyone says this about him and the most fashionable people are using him and he's got A list celeb clients, it's all marketing nonsense and doesn't make up for not having real feedback from real patients.

you know how? which soccer players and actors have named him as their doc? How are you talking to so many euros and arabs about this doc? which forum are you talking to them on? lets see this feedback? I've been around multiple forums for years now and I haven't seen anybody say he's the best doc in Turkey, not once til you so you can understand my skepticism. If you got info that tells me otherwise I'm happy to hear it