19 Years of age: Norwood 2-3 (is there anybody out there).

[win200]

This thread is such a complete heartbreaker. You seem like such a nice kid, and you don't even begin to deserve what's happened to your head. I'm 31, so I remember pretty vividly how impulsive and stupid I was when I was your age, and I couldn't be more grateful that I didn't have the money to pull a stunt like this. I waited until I was 29, which was still somewhat early for the transplant.

 

But here's the good news: you did something irretrievably stupid, and you're not going to do it again. While you did use 2,000 grafts, that's not a majority of your donor, and now you're on medications to halt/slow further loss. Something that no one on this thread has mentioned is that it's possible to have the grafts that this doctor placed excised and re-placed on your head--some doctors are very proficient at this. Given the atrocious placement and angulation of your grafts, it may make sense in a year or two for you to look for a procedure that doesn't remove any new grafts from the back of your head, but pulls up the existing grafts, re-places them in a denser, higher hairline, and fixes the crop-row placement and screwed-up angulation. That could go a long way towards mitigating the damage here.

 

But regardless of all of this, my thoughts are with you and I hope for the best for you.

[gillenator]

Did you mean "extracted" implying FUE or another isolated extraction method?

 

Some repair docs that do not perform FUE are limited to excising the grafts which can in some cases leave more than desired scarring because it can certainly be a more invasive approach utilizing scalpels (surgical removal) versus extraction punches (isolated removal).

 

Yet some of the placed grafts may indeed need to be excised because of the scarring that is already there and also needing removal. So each repair case can indeed be different.

 

It's very possible that both methods of excision and extraction may be needed to avoid transection and also to minimize scar tissue reformation to allow for more blood flow and corresponding yield post-operatively.

[TommyLucchese]

This thread is such a complete heartbreaker. You seem like such a nice kid, and you don't even begin to deserve what's happened to your head.

 

But regardless of all of this, my thoughts are with you and I hope for the best for you.

 

I agree. I genuinely had my head in my hands when I read the thread and came to the post where he'd gone through with it. You're right though in that it's not catastrophic, plenty of people have had poor HT's done at a young age and gone on to have it corrected really well so I suppose all is not lost. It's just really unfortunate.

 

Mirror I want to apologise if I've come across as harsh or insensitive, it's just been out of pure disappointment for you. Like I've said, try to forget it now and wait for it all to grow in - hopefully when grown out it wont be as bad as some of us think. Even if it is, at least you have access to the top doctors here who should be able to help you.

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

I agree. I genuinely had my head in my hands when I read the thread and came to the post where he'd gone through with it. You're right though in that it's not catastrophic, plenty of people have had poor HT's done at a young age and gone on to have it corrected really well so I suppose all is not lost. It's just really unfortunate.

 

Mirror I want to apologise if I've come across as harsh or insensitive, it's just been out of pure disappointment for you. Like I've said, try to forget it now and wait for it all to grow in - hopefully when grown out it wont be as bad as some of us think. Even if it is, at least you have access to the top doctors here who should be able to help you.

No worries. Next time I will most definitely seek out a recommended doctor, if corrective surgery would be needed.

[win200]

Did you mean "extracted" implying FUE or another isolated extraction method?

 

Some repair docs that do not perform FUE are limited to excising the grafts which can in some cases leave more than desired scarring because it can certainly be a more invasive approach utilizing scalpels (surgical removal) versus extraction punches (isolated removal).

 

Yet some of the placed grafts may indeed need to be excised because of the scarring that is already there and also needing removal. So each repair case can indeed be different.

 

It's very possible that both methods of excision and extraction may be needed to avoid transection and also to minimize scar tissue reformation to allow for more blood flow and corresponding yield post-operatively.

 

My impression is that some docs have removed grafts through--I think--extraction punches. There's always the possibility of scarring, but at least from the reading I've done there are folks who have been able to extract and re-place grafts with only minimal, if any, scarring. I've seen some shots of this done at the hairline with great success. The trouble for mirror is that his hairline is so low, it would be foolish to try to cover up the poor work with more grafts--he'd end up with like 4,000 grafts in an extremely low hairline.

[gillenator]

win,

 

You are absolutely correct on both points. I know of a talented plastic surgeon in the Mid-Atlantic region who uses only excision methods in HT repair. To my knowledge, he does not perform FUE so he typically has to "cut out" the large grafts and then dissect them, and and have them re-implanted. He also does HT procedures by strip methods but do not consider him a first choice. But some of his repair cases came out pretty decent I must say. Those patients healed very well with minimal visual scarring IMHO.

 

Yes, I too have seen some repair cases using FUE with punches to remove larger grafts and dissect them and re-implant them as well. Obviously the difference is which method works best in plug or large grafts removal.

 

Sometimes the larger plugs are more "compressed" in the original recipient site where they were initially implanted and then FUE (extraction) to remove them becomes very difficult or they cannot be thinned out. Transection is the concern.

 

There are some cases where the plugs are too large to extract them by FUE intact and in those situations, it's more advantageous to excise them otherwise transection can occur during the extraction process. If the punches are too large, there can be more visible scarring and this is where excision may be a better option because there is a small healed slit rather then a larger pink or discolored dot.

 

There used to be a rather aggressively marketed HT surgeon in the greater DC area who was infamous for his open donor procedures (plugs). He did many of them in the 80s and 90's. He's now retired to play semi-professional golf.

 

I have seen a fair number of his past patients seeking repair and some of them have a dilemma in knowing the best approach.

 

This is where a multi-talented surgeon skilled in both arenas may be the best option for the best possible final repair result because the surgeon can rely on either technique or a combination of both depending on each individual case.

 

But when those unwanted grafts were placed way too low to begin with, there's no point in causing further eye drift by adding more grafts between what is already there from prior surgery. So having a unnatural youthful hairline and adding even more limited donor between the unwanted grafts can only potentially compound the problem...:rolleyes:

[win200]

win,

 

You are absolutely correct on both points. I know of a talented plastic surgeon in the Mid-Atlantic region who uses only excision methods in HT repair. To my knowledge, he does not perform FUE so he typically has to "cut out" the large grafts and then dissect them, and and have them re-implanted. He also does HT procedures by strip methods but do not consider him a first choice. But some of his repair cases came out pretty decent I must say. Those patients healed very well with minimal visual scarring IMHO.

 

Yes, I too have seen some repair cases using FUE with punches to remove larger grafts and dissect them and re-implant them as well. Obviously the difference is which method works best in plug or large grafts removal.

 

Sometimes the larger plugs are more "compressed" in the original recipient site where they were initially implanted and then FUE (extraction) to remove them becomes very difficult or they cannot be thinned out. Transection is the concern.

 

There are some cases where the plugs are too large to extract them by FUE intact and in those situations, it's more advantageous to excise them otherwise transection can occur during the extraction process. If the punches are too large, there can be more visible scarring and this is where excision may be a better option because there is a small healed slit rather then a larger pink or discolored dot.

 

There used to be a rather aggressively marketed HT surgeon in the greater DC area who was infamous for his open donor procedures (plugs). He did many of them in the 80s and 90's. He's now retired to play semi-professional golf.

 

I have seen a fair number of his past patients seeking repair and some of them have a dilemma in knowing the best approach.

 

This is where a multi-talented surgeon skilled in both arenas may be the best option for the best possible final repair result because the surgeon can rely on either technique or a combination of both depending on each individual case.

 

But when those unwanted grafts were placed way too low to begin with, there's no point in causing further eye drift by adding more grafts between what is already there from prior surgery. So having a unnatural youthful hairline and adding even more limited donor between the unwanted grafts can only potentially compound the problem...:rolleyes:

 

That's really interesting and helpful. I think the possibility of graft excision and re-placement changes the analysis a little bit in terms of transplant strategy. I've adopted a relatively aggressive strategy at age 31 with 3,000 grafts placed into the frontal third (or, at least, that'll be the total after my procedure this summer). There's always the chance that, although my native hair is a dense NW2, everything could go south as I get older. But if that happens, I can have the dense-packed grafts excised and re-distributed. Not ideal, obviously, but there are options beyond simply leaving densely packed grafts at the hairline with tons of space behind them. It's something to consider, although it's obviously not a panacea.

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

At least my doctor is listed on this hairloss website: **outside link removed by moderator**

Edited February 22, 2014 by Future_HT_Doc

[hairthere]

Mirror,

That's a meaningless listing. It even says so in red lettering:

 

"This is NOT an endorsement. Patients considering hair transplant are advised to do thorough research before making a decision. The easiest way to jump start your research is via our forum."

 

Are you LISTENING TO A WORD ANYONE ON THIS FORUM HAS SAID TO YOU?

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

Mirror,

That's a meaningless listing. It even says so in red lettering:

 

"This is NOT an endorsement. Patients considering hair transplant are advised to do thorough research before making a decision. The easiest way to jump start your research is via our forum."

 

Are you LISTENING TO A WORD ANYONE ON THIS FORUM HAS SAID TO YOU?

I know that, I just thought I should share it. At least his name is not unknown to the World of hair transplant surgery.

 

I just sent a PM to Dr. Damkerng (a renowned hair transplant doctor) of DHT hair clinic, in Bangkok (he is in fact recommended on this site), and this is what he said (I venture I can take his word for it):

 

"Dr. Prasert has been doing hair transplant in Yanhee Hospital for many years. I do not know him personally but I have seen a few of his patients and they have good results.

It has been less than 3 months since your surgery and it would be unfair to judge the growth rate or the hair direction now. The hair usually starts to grow after 4 months and you would be able to see some changes after 8 months, and enjoy the full result after one year. In the forums there are lots of people who really have good knowledge who can give you some idea about hair transplantation. However, there are also some people who always criticizes the others without having the right knowledge. I suggest you should seek your surgeon's advice if you have any questions."

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

Alas, I am starting to notice some pretty significant balding in the crown and all over the top of my head.

It feels as though my life is being stripped away from me, for no reason. I hope the medications I am on will at least help slow it down and maintain the rest for a good while longer. I will undoubtedly (in my later years) end up with a Norwood 5/6, 7 I hope not. My father is a Norwood 4-5, and he is 49.

[greatjob]

Alas, I am starting to notice some pretty significant balding in the crown and all over the top of my head.

It feels as though my life is being stripped away from me, for no reason. I hope the medications I am on will at least help slow it down and maintain the rest for a good while longer. I will undoubtedly (in my later years) end up with a Norwood 5/6, 7 I hope not. My father is a Norwood 4-5, and he is 49.

I hope you're wrong. This is why we were telling you not to transplant such an aggressive hairline at such a young age. I really hope this procedure turns out well for you now, so you don't waste any grafts you may need later.

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

 

I hope you're wrong. This is why we were telling you not to transplant such an aggressive hairline at such a young age. I really hope this procedure turns out well for you now, so you don't waste any grafts you may need later.

And the temples, of course (maybe it is normal to have thinner hair there?)... life just isn't fair. I need a dagger for my back.

[hairshopeing]

Mate, you have been given a rough ride here, some tough love if you like!

Your hair may or may not turn out ok, might be great might not, it doesn't look like great work post op or what a normal refined post op transplant looks like. But to be fair if it grows in well than a really good quality surgeon I'm sure would be able to address the issues it presents. You may be experiencing some shockloss or sometimes after being shaved down bald it does take some time to grow back looking as full as before, so hopefully your native hair isn't disappearing at such a rate. You are very very young to have had a ht and your should of listened to the excellent advice you were give before you took the plunge, but it's done now and you cannot turn back time, so I think its best to be positive about your situation rather than constantly being told about how bad it's going to be because the honest truth is nobody actually knows until 12 months time, some transplants look amazing post op and just don't grow, some grow looking unnatural and some are excellent. I think you need to wait it out at least 8 months if by then it's looking unnatural I'd keep it shave down or grow out you native to cover it and in the meantime I'd really research the best drs who do repairs!! You must be a mentally strong person because a ht is very stressful and even with everyone telling you it's ok and going to be great doubts creep in but with everyone telling you how bad it is youv still remained on here updating and seem very grounded and are coping far better than I would be or most in here would be!!!!

Just what ever you do, take the advice youv Been given and research, see several drs for there opinions and go to some one ethical, as I think if you had done that before your op this time you would not of even been given a ht!!!

Good luck and keep your chin up, it might not turn out as bad as you think, but that would be down to good luck on your part not taking the right approach!!

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

Mate, you have been given a rough ride here, some tough love if you like!

Your hair may or may not turn out ok, might be great might not, it doesn't look like great work post op or what a normal refined post op transplant looks like. But to be fair if it grows in well than a really good quality surgeon I'm sure would be able to address the issues it presents. You may be experiencing some shockloss or sometimes after being shaved down bald it does take some time to grow back looking as full as before, so hopefully your native hair isn't disappearing at such a rate. You are very very young to have had a ht and your should of listened to the excellent advice you were give before you took the plunge, but it's done now and you cannot turn back time, so I think its best to be positive about your situation rather than constantly being told about how bad it's going to be because the honest truth is nobody actually knows until 12 months time, some transplants look amazing post op and just don't grow, some grow looking unnatural and some are excellent. I think you need to wait it out at least 8 months if by then it's looking unnatural I'd keep it shave down or grow out you native to cover it and in the meantime I'd really research the best drs who do repairs!! You must be a mentally strong person because a ht is very stressful and even with everyone telling you it's ok and going to be great doubts creep in but with everyone telling you how bad it is youv still remained on here updating and seem very grounded and are coping far better than I would be or most in here would be!!!!

Just what ever you do, take the advice youv Been given and research, see several drs for there opinions and go to some one ethical, as I think if you had done that before your op this time you would not of even been given a ht!!!

Good luck and keep your chin up, it might not turn out as bad as you think, but that would be down to good luck on your part not taking the right approach!!

My thanks. Maybe, just maybe when I grow it out I will be able to hide the thinning in the crown area. I've always had a very thick head of hair. Would products such as Toppik or Caboki do me any good? I can live with a thinning crown area for some time, as long as it does not get too severe. Maybe then I'll get another transplant, in another 5 years. Some of it may be shockloss, I hope.

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

Months - Growth in percent

 

3 10

4 25

5 40

6 60

7 70

8 75

9 80

10 90

11 95

12 98

18 100

[TommyLucchese]

Are you taking propecia, minoxidil or nizoral? If so that can contribute to shedding of the crown etc in the initial stages when you start taking them

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

 

Are you taking propecia, minoxidil or nizoral? If so that can contribute to shedding of the crown etc in the initial stages when you start taking them

Yes, I think I've been using both Propecia and Minoxidil for approximately 3-4 months now.

[Rothki]

My thanks. Maybe, just maybe when I grow it out I will be able to hide the thinning in the crown area. I've always had a very thick head of hair. Would products such as Toppik or Caboki do me any good? I can live with a thinning crown area for some time, as long as it does not get too severe. Maybe then I'll get another transplant, in another 5 years. Some of it may be shockloss, I hope.

 

 

Give us some pictures of your crown man, interested to see it

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

Give us some pictures of your crown man, interested to see it

No, sorry, I'd rather not. It just makes me feel horrible about myself (its not like I have much confidence to go on...). All I can say is that I have diffuse thinning on the top of my head, and that it can be camouflaged well enough, as long as I grow my hair out medium to long. However, I think I might be able to keep it around for a while. Maybe the effects of Propecia will kick in in the latter part of this year. At least I am seeing some very positive growth from my hair transplant. About 300 follicles I think, which is a bit less than 10% of 3500 hairs, which means I am on schedule. Edited February 24, 2014 by TheMirrorOfDreams

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

For the years to come, I think I'll be investing in a dozen bottles of Caboki, to help cover up my thinning.

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

I've been on Propecia and Minoxidil for 5 months and 13 days now, and I've yet to see any results...

[TheMirrorOfDreams]

New fine hairs are spurting all over the transplanted area. The camera will not be able to pick up these, so when I do post new pictures, I will probably look about the same as when I last posted.

[zealander]

The Mirror of dreams as a topical you could look into this product...I honestly cannot say one way or the other the true results of these herbal based minoxidil formulations out there, but one thing that is becoming plainly obvious, they are all utilising that even though they claim their product is holistically formulated and they stair way from the orthodox approach.

Maybe other peoples among us here can share their further knowledge or possible use of this formula below and others very similar.

 

**outside link removed by moderator**

 

On another note I trust that you are happy with your overall result once your hair fully manifests its results for you, you have to be happy within yourself as you know or it is difficult to live with, thankfully this day n age there are Hair restoration specialists out there that can aid in that area when your time and finances once again allow you to act.

 

The very best to you

Edited March 2, 2014 by Future_HT_Doc

[snortsnortsnort]

The Mirror of dreams as a topical you could look into this product...I honestly cannot say one way or the other the true results of these herbal based minoxidil formulations out there, but one thing that is becoming plainly obvious, they are all utilising that even though they claim their product is holistically formulated and they stair way from the orthodox approach.

Maybe other peoples among us here can share their further knowledge or possible use of this formula below and others very similar.

 

baldness ,hairloss,and alopecia, the cure is zx42

 

On another note I trust that you are happy with your overall result once your hair fully manifests its results for you, you have to be happy within yourself as you know or it is difficult to live with, thankfully this day n age there are Hair restoration specialists out there that can aid in that area when your time and finances once again allow you to act.

 

The very best to you

 

**inflammatory comment removed by moderator**

Edited March 2, 2014 by Future_HT_Doc