Dr. Wong 6500 Grafts, 1.5 Years Post #2

[TheEmperor]

I updated my blog to include comprehensive photos from HT#2. I will update this post later with my detailed thoughts, but I am disappointed for a number of reasons. The hair does not look good, neither does it look "realistic". ITs hard to see what I am saying from individual still shots, but when viewed from 360* around (in videos) the shortcomings of the whole HT become apparent. I still get alot of hair lookers. Men are more bold although I sometimes catch women looking.

 

The biggest shock of the whole thing was how removing the flesh made the bald spot larger and more prominent from the back. Getting another strip will just make this problem worse. As a result, I feel I am stripped out.

 

Growth from #2 is worse than growth from #1. Look at the hairline pics to see the grafts Wong planted in between the jaggies to break them up. Of the hairs that did grow here, they grew at a finer, almost insignificant diameter. The jaggies are still highly visible. Based on my in person consultation, I was pegged as between medium and fine calibre hair (like Jotronic) so I can only presume that the "B team" damaged the grafts. There are a few other Wong patients who had work done around the same time with sub-par results, leading me to believe something is broken on their end. Maybe HTN can investigate.

 

I wont be going back to Wong because I think his approach lacks artistry and they have demonstrated yield problems. Actually I would like a refund so I can get the hairline repaired somewhere else. They had 2 shots to give me a decent hairline. THis is a far cry from "better than Jotronic result" they told me I would get. I think the 500 or so larger grafts they put in the crown mostly grew, but they have no cosmetic benefit, are a wispy mess, and would have been better placed somewhere behind the hairline to give density. HT#2 really didn't help much at all, was just a huge inconvenience. I can't recommend anyone to Dr. Wong.

 

 

 

This office shot was taken by Joe with my camera in the H&W office. No photoshop was used to alter the appearance in any way, just to hide personal details. This is an accurate representation of what the hair looks like. Check my blog for more photos.

Edited June 17, 2011 by TheEmperor

[hairthere]

emperor,

Firstly, I am sorry you are unhappy with your results. Looking at your photos, it's somewhat tough to make a call on what happened. The ideal photo evidence would have been to have the pictures taken in the same setting, position, hair styles, etc. and then place them in a sequence next to one another. Your pics are a bit scattered.

 

That being said, I don't think your problem was necessarily a yield issue. It looks to me like you have very fine hair (certainly not medium) because you can clearly see you had growth, and areas that did not have hair now do. It simply is not providing adequate density because of it's caliber. I also notice that when your hair is styled (combed from left to right) it looks much better and more dense. Unfortunately, with a lot of Ht patients, you can have your hair back, but in order for it to look dense it must be properly styled. I am certain that is what the clinic will say.

 

Regarding the artistry of Dr. Wong's hairlines; why did you pick him as your surgeon if you felt that way? There's certainly enough documented examples of his work to have made that call before having surgery with him. I think if the hairline had better density you would feel differently about the design.

 

Moving forward, I would say another pass to the hairline and frontal third could provide you with the density you are hoping for and might allow you to have more styling options. Your theory of the strip increasing your crown thinning is not very plausible. It is more likely that your balding has progressed (that's what happened to me) and judging by your NW pattern seems like it might increase further (Are you on meds?). So I wouldn't worry about the strip expanding the crown's balding appearance and wouldn't recommend you go the fue route at this point.

 

Good luck and please keep us updated on what you decide.

Edited June 13, 2011 by hairthere

[aaron1234]

Emp,

 

Thanks for sharing with us your results, even though you are not pleased with them. I honestly don't think your results are that bad. They are not miracle results but I think you look better now than you did before the surgeries. I do appreciate the difference between seeing pictures of results and living personally with the results, and that still shots do not give the entire story. But I agree with hairthere that the picture with your hair parted to the side looks pretty good. I'm sure you know that styling is an important factor with making the best out of HT hair. The toppik'ed pics are pretty good as well. The combed forward and parted look aren't so great.

 

As for your crown expansion claim, how are you sure that you just didn't lose more hair in the area?

 

I have seen a couple of patients of Dr. Wong on the forums who's results didn't pan out so well. I wouldn't put you in that category. But again, I am seeing pictures of your hair and you are living with your hair.

 

What is your next step? I wouldn't completely rule out strip again. Maybe a couple smaller ones of about 1,000 grafts are in order, perhaps?

 

Again, sorry you are not happy Emp but I think your hair is looking better than you think. I hope for nothing but the best for you.

[mahhong]

Sorry to hear about your negative experience at Hasson & Wong.

 

To me it looks like the issue may primarily be one of yield - a factor that's difficult to pin down the problem with. On paper you had a good number of grafts transplanted and the photos post-op on both occasions looks like good, clean work. The results however are clearly not what you anticipated and you've pretty studiously documented them in some ways.

 

I cannot see anything that Dr. Wong, or any other doctor, would have done differently (just based on the information you've provided). Poor yield is an unfortunate but real problem with some patients and your case looks to be one of those. I can't see another explanation. Perhaps the "B Team" did damage some grafts and I'm not in a position to know that, but it seems in my honest opinion unlikely they'd damage enough grafts to turn 6000+ transplanted grafts into the result you've had.

 

Regarding the crown expansion I have to be honest and say I have mixed feelings about the veracity of this. On the one hand your photos do seem to show that the balding crown has expanded and they angle of your head/angle of the photograph do seem to be fairly uniform, lending some definite credence to your claim. On the other hand though the positioning of the hair is different in the photos, and the amount of time that has passed could have led to more natural loss. I know you say your rim of hair had been stable for years but in your "hat head" photo from your "2 Days" entry there looks to me some fairly clear miniaturization and general lack of density in the area that appears to be bald in the later crown photos.

 

I am not trying to defend either Dr. Wong nor yourself here and I do not know the facts, so my opinion is based on observation alone. Crown expansion is not a well documented or reported phenomenon though and, even though your explanation makes sense, that does not make it true. I have seen many, many results without any documented crown expansion and fairly few with. In your case I can't come to a definite personal conclusion on what's going on, but it's definitely to your credit for documenting it as you have.

 

Nevertheless your results are clearly not up to the standard you expected and some dialogue with Dr. Wong is merited. In addition your feedback on the whole experience has been consistently detailed and seemingly upfront and honest. But it seems to me this is ultimately a case of unfortunate circumstances rather than doctor error. I don't see any evidence of bad surgery or damaged grafts as such, and poor yield is sometimes a physiological condition rather than any sort of negligence. The fact that 2 hair transplants yielded sub-par results is, in my honest opinion, more suggestive of physiological attributes than doctor related ones, but I could of course be wrong.

 

Ultimately though, this situation is never good and it's the patient that should be put first - especially one as thorough and upfront as yourself. Have you spoken to Joe or Dr. Wong about your dissatisfaction? They're clearly not in the game to make patients unhappy and will do their best to support you, I'm sure.

 

As for the larger issue of whether there is or was some issue at H+W that led to the purported crop of bad results, this is something that HTN must decide what to do with I suppose. I have seen a few less than happy results from H+W, but I've seen many more satisfied customers on these forums, and of course it must be factored in that it seems HTs in general are becoming more and more popular and H+W in particular must be seeing increasingly larger numbers of patients, I would imagine. I personally don't believe anything is "going on" at H+W - but having no association or experience with the facility I'm in no place to comment on that with any authority.

 

Once again, sorry to hear about your experience and hope you can find a solution you're happy with. If it's any consolation, based on the pictures you've uploaded your hair has improved drastically from before you had any surgery. I know you mention it looks less than realistic in real life, but the pictures at least do show an overall improvement.

 

Hope you manage to find some resolve to this and thanks for being so thorough!

[TC17]

Emperor, I would not classify your hair transplant as a failure. Obviously I cannot speak to how your hair looks in person, but in the photos it appears natural and pretty darn good. That being said, unless you have very fine hair, I would have anticipated a fuller apperance for 6,500 grafts over a NW 5 area.

 

I hope that you can get your issues resolved.

[Cant decide]

All that matters is how you feel about it but from what I am seeing, this is not a bad result. Its not a home run but it is pretty good. You look like you have super fine hair.

[Guest Ian512017155]

It only matters what you think of it and if you dont like it then make sure you tell them why. My opinion if I was you I wouldnt like the results either, when you just use spray, concealor etc and comb your hair to the side like in your one picture, the result looks ok. However the natural results look terrible. I refer to this as a $20,000 comb over hair transplant.

[bonkerstonker]

I'm thinking it's not the greatest ht in the world but it's a massive difference from where you came from also 6500 grafts with your level of loss is not enough to style your hair anyway you want if you want to be able to do that you'd need a lot more but most people who have a ht style their hair the way that gives the best illusion but i'm sure you know that.

 

I'm a little confused what happened with the crown i can see you only had the crown done in ht2 so i'm guessing you used up a lot of grafts in the front and only a few must of been used in the crown or something. As for the hairline i'm not a fan of the jagged hairlines like that as i've always believed they don't turn out that well but i guess that is what you asked for because Dr wong is unlikely to do that without being asked to do it.

[hdude46]

for 6500 graphs you should have a lot better result,even with fine hair. if it were my results i wouldnt be happy either.

[Spanker]

for 6500 graphs you should have a lot better result,even with fine hair. if it were my results i wouldnt be happy either.

 

I have to agree. I can not defend these results, and I would be unhappy as well. Although he does look better it, it does not look like what I would expect a world class ht to look like. That said, I do consider Hand W to be among the best. All the magic just didn't come together on this one.

[hairthere]

I think what's happening is you guys are seeing cases of 5-6k grafts that look amazing and think everyone should achieve those results with a similar megasession. That's just not the case. And I bet you most guys with high NW's and finer hair that look like they have "wow" results must style their hair a certain way. In fact, I bet if you ask Jotronic he'll tell you his hair can look not as good if styled a certain way. Look, I'm not saying Emperor should be satisfied with his results. But I also don't think the clinic is really at fault here.

[hairthere]

This shot reveals that one more session should give Emperor much better results. He would probably want to focus on the hairline and frontal third and give up on the crown, or fue the crown to get some light coverage. That's the reality of HTs. You need a ton of grafts, especially with fine hair, to achieve an acceptable appearance....

[hdude46]

This shot reveals that one more session should give Emperor much better results. He would probably want to focus on the hairline and frontal third and give up on the crown, or fue the crown to get some light coverage. That's the reality of HTs. You need a ton of grafts, especially with fine hair, to achieve an acceptable appearance....

 

really? he already had 6500 graphs! how much donor does he have left? not much is my guess. its a bad result i dunno why people insist on putting lipstick on a pig. some people would be happy with this result. if this were me i wouldnt be.

[aaron1234]

It's not great but it's not terrible either. I do think Emp might be better off with another surgeon if he wants to improve his situation because he simply does not trust Dr. Wong any more. But he certainly wasn't butchered by him or didn't have any yield.

[hairthere]

Hdude, do you think it's a bad result because the clinic did something wrong? Are you seeing yield issues? As far as how many grafts he has left, it could be 2-3k. Adding more will only improve his situation. I do agree with Aaron that he should probably see another doc for a second opinion at this point.

[TheEmperor]

Thanks for everyone's responses, they were all honest and well reasoned. Instead of responding individually to everyone, let me address them together.

 

Regarding the calibre of my hair and my expectations, I had many conversations and an in-person consultation with them trying to ascertain my expected result. They told me my hair was between medium and fine, and did not indicate any problems with my donor. I showed them some Wong patients who had results I felt were not good and said I wouldn't proceed unless there was a reasonable expectation for better results, and they assured me that the patients I showed them had ultra fine hair (and one was a repair patient) thus my result would certainly be better. In the in-person consulation Wong told me personally that he thought I would have a better result than Joe. And given that I was not nearly as bald, and by their reports had similar hair quality, it was easy to believe. This is why I booked with him.

 

If you look closely at the hairline pics from #2, you can see that all the hairs that Wong planted seem to be of almost insignificant diameter, where the jaggy hairs still stand out. This, to me is a strong indication that something went wrong. I noted two of the ultra-fine hairs, but there are many more of these ultra-fine hairs that he used to fill in. I would have expected them to be the same diameter as the jaggy hairs. The only explanation I can come up with is damage from the technicians. (It is known that crushing the grafts has this effect.) Patients SimpleSolution and Drew35 had HTs within about a month, and also, in my opinion had poor yield, thus I suggest that there may be something "going on at their end". I dont think H&W are beyond reproach and suggested HTN should investigate.

 

To clarify, I DID NOT ask for the jaggies. The reason I went back to him for #2 was that I had a reasonable expectation that he would fix them and was offered a significant discount. He appeared to plant between them, but the hairs he planted grew at almost insignificant diameter, thus the jaggies are still prominent. The jaggies are the primary reason I say that Wong lacks artistry, because in my estimation there is no way that large, evenly spaced clumps of hair could look natural. I don't know what he was thinking.

 

Regarding my physiology as the reason for the poor result: There is evidence that the jaggy hairs grew perfectly. When other hairs were planted between them (by another technician) they did not grow well (they are all ultra-fine, almost insignificant) I think this takes my physiology out of the equation. It may be that my grafts require a higher level of skill to plant successfully and that only some of the technicians meet the skill requirement.

 

 

Regarding my available donor, it is CLEAR to me that taking strips pulls the side and back hair down. I think I could go back for another small strip but as in the last procedure, the marginal gain in density and wispy coverage on top was offset by a larger bald spot. I think I reasonably have about 1.5K grafts left, and I am holding on to them for future repair. I am definitely interested in FUE as a possibility, but can't go through another round of surgery at this time.

 

As far as why I chose Wong, it was because Joe originally passed my pictures to him. Joe told me that Dr. Wong was "excited to work on me" and that "we expect great things for you." Hasson was pulling larger #'s at the time, but it was not clear to me that either was better than the other. And Joe's in-person results looked fantastic at the consultation.

Edited June 16, 2011 by TheEmperor

[hairthere]

Emperor, have you contacted the clinic directly about this? Will you seek a second opinion/consultation?

Edited June 15, 2011 by hairthere

[bonkerstonker]

I feel for you mate it must be gutting to not get what you want but i honestly feel you needed a lot more grafts to cover you're thining area completely in any style you want. As for the jaggies i'm a little shocked that Dr Wong would take it up on his own accord to make such big jaggies without you asking, did you not think to say something when he was making them? when i was having mine done by Dr Hasson i was directing him every 5 mins exactly how i wanted my hairline and he was nothing but completly patient with me untill i had it exactly how i wanted it.

 

I have to say i think you did a great job with your pictures and feel you have been really honest with your pictures as i've seen a lot of unhappy patients just take pictures of the their hair in really bad situations to make things look really bad but yours are very fair and diverse.

Edited June 15, 2011 by bonkerstonker

[TheEmperor]

I feel for you mate it must be gutting to not get what you want but i honestly feel you needed a lot more grafts to cover you're thining area completely in any style you want. As for the jaggies i'm a little shocked that Dr Wong would take it up on his own accord to make such big jaggies without you asking, did you not think to say something when he was making them? when i was having mine done by Dr Hasson i was directing him every 5 mins exactly how i wanted my hairline and he was nothing but completly patient with me untill i had it exactly how i wanted it.

 

I have to say i think you did a great job with your pictures and feel you have been really honest with your pictures as i've seen a lot of unhappy patients just take pictures of the their hair in really bad situations to make things look really bad but yours are very fair and diverse.

 

The jaggies were planted some time at the end of the procedure without any input from me.

 

We argued over the hairline shape for 20+ minutes prior to surgery. Two days before the procedure, I had told Joe that it was VERY IMPORTANT that I get a symmetrical hairline. Joe told me to communicate this to Wong on the morning of surgery.

 

Dr Wong kept drawing an assymetrical hairline (which is a strategy I see on alot of patients). And then I asked him to mark where he though the middle of my forehead was, and his mark was 1cm to the left! It was absolutely surreal, and I felt I should back out if he cant accurately find the middle, but reason told me to let go of the creative aspect to some degree, he obviously knew what he was doing. (?)

 

He drew the hairline in, and on the fourth iteration with some temple closure drawn in, it looked reasonably "correct".

 

So about 2 hours into the surgery, at my first break, I am merveling at everything that is being done, looking at all the incisions in the mirror, and realize the line we had taken 20-30 minutes to draw is gone. (Probably wiped off with saline spray from techs during planting?)

 

Then after everything is over, all the grafts are used, they did not plant any temple closure. (This was the small area at the angle between side and top hair to help smooth the transition -- he did plant this in #2) I got back to the hotel, I was exhausted, and see that the hairline he planted was closest to the first one he drew. Offset to the left about 1cm. It is what I have heard described as a "snail trail" hairline, which I have seen wong use on a bunch of his patients.

 

THe next day I am back in the office for a clean up, I ask him if he has a few minutes to talk and he said he was with the patient and too busy. I didnt create a scene because another patient was in the chair and I didnt feel arguing about graft placement was appropriate at that time. I got the message through by phone a few days later, and Joe implored me to just wait and see how things go.

 

The hairline is still assymetrical, offset 1cm to the left, and only looks realistic when combed from left to right.

 

I would say that Wong just does what he wants to do and what he thinks is best. I would rate his communication skills as low. I have since talked to some other surgeons who are very conversational and able to discuss their rationale for certain design decisions.

 

Lots of discontent regarding Wongs design and communication skills. I went back for number 2 realizing it was a numbers game and because the procedure was heavily discounted. (Should have been free.) I was just looking for good yield and realized I would need another surgeon to get the hairline right. Joe felt that with increased density, my issues with the hairline design would be resolved. I was willing to entertain that possibility.

Edited June 15, 2011 by TheEmperor

[Jotronic]

I appreciate everyone's input on this case. I think that Hairthere nailed it when he said " In fact, I bet if you ask Jotronic he'll tell you his hair can look not as good if styled a certain way." This is absolutely the truth.

 

I've spoken about this issue for years. We as HT patients with aggressive loss are not getting full heads of hair. There is a sweet spot for coverage and the appearance of density and while I have more options than I've had since I was 25 (I'm 41 now) I still do not have every option available to me even with 9360 grafts. The point of getting a hair transplant is to have more options for hair styles and to lessen the appearance of hair loss as much as possible. Some hair styles work better for this goal than others. We are all "slaves", if you will, to at least some sort of compromise, be it hair spray, maybe a bit of styling putty, or other limitations of not having a full head of hair but some can handle it better than others. It takes me about five minutes to style my hair from shower to walking out the door but that is because I know what works and what does not work. I have always had to use hair spray since my early twenties, not because of hair loss, but because my hair easily blows around in the wind.

 

In the case of The Emperor, I would like to address a couple of things he has said, both on this thread and on his blog.

 

From his blog...

 

"I posted these photos originally about 6 months ago. Hair is grown to 3.5" on top and has SAMY "Fat Hair" styling mouse from earlier in day. Hair was styled by Joe prior to photos."

 

I don't recall any product being in his hair because the whole reason why I combed it to begin with was because it was rather messy, maybe from the wind. However, I did comb it differently later on. TE has routinely spoken about how he was told he would have my results. While not entirely true I did style his hair like I used to wear it to see how it looked. I used a very small amount of Tre Semme styling putty for hold and simply combed it backward.

 

Be sure to click on the yellow tag at the top of each image to see it in full resolution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This hairline was created with the very specific requirement that it not be a wall of hair. In fact, TE even stated as such in his original consultation form...

 

"I would rather have a diffuse "see through" hairline than a "High wall of hair". Those are his words.

 

Next up is what he said in his first post of this thread...

 

"The biggest shock of the whole thing was how removing the flesh made the bald spot larger and more prominent from the back."

 

TE has been saying this for a long time. He has had 2.6cm of donor tissue removed and has stated in the past that he is now a NW6 because of it. I on the other hand started out as a NW6 and have had roughly 6cm of scalp tissue removed. My crown is no larger because of it. If his logic were true the rim of my crown would be around my neckline.

 

Here is his own photo before surgery...

 

 

This is five days after HT #2. This image looks suspiciously wet to me hence the odd direction of the side hair laying flat on the top.

 

 

This is 7.5 months after HT#2.

 

 

However, the visual evidence we have, with much higher resolution and image size, shows a different story.

 

 

I know the immediate post-op photo on the far right looks a bit thin at the bottom of the crown but there is a reason for this. It was shaved.

 

 

Moving on, The Emperor has this to say...

 

" I still get alot of hair lookers. Men are more bold although I sometimes catch women looking."

 

TE gives the impression here that he has a very unnatural result. I honestly believe this to be a stretch. I can understand what it is like to have a truly unnatural result and he does not have this. I lived with it for nine years and I did not get nearly the attention that TE says he gets. MY old work was "terrible". TE's work is natural.

 

 

 

 

 

There is no question that TE is unhappy but there is nothing more we can reasonably be expected to do. He had the option of coming back and we were not against the option of at least a partial refund due to nothing more than his obvious discontent. He obviously chose the former. It is frustrating to us because we really did try to make things right with him but he continues to find fault with our efforts and for the past year has let everyone know just how unhappy he is, all without showing a single photo till now. There is no "B" team that is less qualified and there is no rash of bad results. There is however a lot of photos of his hair styled to show the absolute weakest representation of a pretty darned good result.

 

 

 

Hdude46,

"some people would be happy with this result. if this were me I wouldn't be".

 

You have far more native hair on your head than TE does after his two procedures (or even me for that matter) and your hair caliber is miles stronger as well. Therefore for you to be happy with this result would mean you would be happy to have less hair that is finer, of which you nor anyone else like you, would not.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Jotronic

[TheEmperor]

Joe,

I am in the process of readng your post, but you MUST take down the photos that show any details of my face and edit them to completely block ALL of my facial features.

 

This has been my concern all along about you compromising my identity by posting photos.

 

I have contacted forum administrators about this.

[Spanker]

I think that a partial refund is fair and agree he should seek treatment elsewhere. With it combed back and styled it looks much much better. I agree that one more pass, even with it being 1500 fu's in the frontal third, assuming they grow in, will make a big difference.

 

Good luck to TE, and I am sorry for his dissappointment. Every single ht just is not a knock your socks off result no matter who the doc is. I can imagine it would just really suck to be in that catagory.

 

Patients are out of a great deal of money and the emotional expense cannot be measured, so I do feel for him. I think that when we do so so much research that we have an expectaion that sometimes is just not met.

 

When you are dealing with that many grafts, I can imagine emotions run high, not only because of the money, but because as of right now, you just cant grow new grafts.

 

That said, H and W have just had too many successful restorations to be considered a sub-par outfit.

[TheEmperor]

TE has routinely spoken about how he was told he would have my results. While not entirely true I did style his hair like I used to wear it to see how it looked.

 

Dr. Wong said my results would be better than yours. Nothing untrue about my statement.

 

This hairline was created with the very specific requirement that it not be a wall of hair. In fact, TE even stated as such in his original consultation form...

 

"I would rather have a diffuse "see through" hairline than a "High wall of hair". Those are his words.

 

You are pulling this from a very early pre-surgery consultation form, that does not benefit from any of our 20+ conversations or in-person consultation. It was what I wrote at the very beginning of the exploration process and did not encompass what was possible or realistic.

 

I was describing how I would rather have a lower see through hairline than one that was much higher yet not-see through. I ended up with a high hairline (2+ cm above original) that is also see through. Not what I wanted.

 

This is way out of context.

 

 

"The biggest shock of the whole thing was how removing the flesh made the bald spot larger and more prominent from the back."

 

TE has been saying this for a long time. He has had 2.6cm of donor tissue removed and has stated in the past that he is now a NW6 because of it.

 

. . .

 

I know the immediate post-op photo on the far right looks a bit thin at the bottom of the crown but there is a reason for this. It was shaved.

 

 

The crown was shaved prior to both of my procedures, even though not planted in the first.

 

Even in the photos you posted, you can see a degree of crown expansion after the first procedure. Because you had me tilt my head forward in all of these photos, the degree of expansion is not completely obvious. My own photos are straight shots from the back and show the degree of expansion.

 

Joe, you keep talking about the accuracy of your before and after photos, perhaps you can explain how all your patients appear to have hair that is three shades lighter in all their post op photos? It is clear to anyone who has seen your photos that there is some trickery going on.

 

For he benefit of the forum, I can say that when you were photographing my results, you had me make very minute adjustments to the angle of my head, tilting it slightly forward, back, or away from the camera. This to capture the absolutely best angle and capture it in the best light. These were not casual shots, they were taken very carefully to bring out the best characteristics.

 

In real life, the hair has to stand up to scrutiny from all angles, not just canned indoor office shots that benefit from photoshopping.

 

 

 

 

TE gives the impression here that he has a very unnatural result. I honestly believe this to be a stretch. I can understand what it is like to have a truly unnatural result and he does not have this. I lived with it for nine years and I did not get nearly the attention that TE says he gets. MY old work was "terrible". TE's work is natural.

 

 

The hair does not look natural under all conditions. When I was going thin, if I did not style my hair, or decided not to get it cut for a few months, it would look messy, but realistic.

 

The transplanted hair actually needs to be styled carefully each day to look realistic. And I need a haircut every 3-4 weeks or the look starts to fall apart fast. Furthermore, I can no longer use clippers on the sides because of the requirement to hide the scar.

 

The end result is less natural and much higher maintenance than anyone would have the expectation to believe.

 

Furthermore, I have been doing some video work and it is a shock to me just how deficient the hair looks from multiple angles. I agree I am critical, but then I did ask for a symmetrical hairline and was not given one. Wong was supposed to be one of the best.

 

 

There is no question that TE is unhappy but there is nothing more we can reasonably be expected to do. He had the option of coming back and we were not against the option of at least a partial refund due to nothing more than his obvious discontent. He obviously chose the former.

 

There was NEVER an offer for a refund, partial or otherwise.

 

When I first started expressing my discontent (around the 9-12 months after procedure #1), you said that you would give me some free grafts in the front if I were to return for a second procedure. That you would need to evaluate the results to determine the best course of action. Thus, there was no definite amount agreed to. I started researching other docs.

 

At the 15 month mark, I posted my "final" photos, further expressed my discontent, and said I was shopping other doctors. At this point you contacted me and offered me 1500 free grafts in the front, that I would pay for anything else. Even with this offer, I was on the fence about returning. Had there been an actual refund offered, I would have gone to another doctor.

Edited June 15, 2011 by TheEmperor

[mahhong]

It would seem this is really a matter to be dealt with privately now that both sides have given their version of the story.

 

TE: It's a shame you were unhappy with your outcome and there is no doubt that I have seen better from similar patients, but of course on the flip side HTs are variable. I absolutely agree that H+W are not beyond reproach but not sure exactly how HTN can investigate. I don't know much about H+Ws practices but my bet would be that their surgical and support teams are second to none and, regardless of your outcome, I can't imagine finding any specific problems at their end would be the case. HTN should be with you on this though, if you really do believe there is a case to answer.

 

I have seen good results from Dr. Wong for the most part, but I guess your opinions on his artistry are based on your own experiences and there's nothing more that can be said on that matter.

 

Again, in regards to the differences of interpretation on consultations, promises and dialogue between yourself and H+W, this is something you can hopefully sort out with Joe and HTN. The facts lie somewhere between both parties and public opinion on this forum shouldn't be part of that I suppose.

 

One thing I would still disagree with you on is the crown expansion, if I'm honest. Having reviewed all the photos from both parties I would say that your crown has remained relatively stable (give or take) and this "expansion" is the result of styling, minute changes in angle and a particular "tuft" of hair at the very top centre of your crown that can particularly deceive depending on the way it's brushed. I'm only going on the evidence in front of me but Joe is right; even if crown expansion does happen it's not a persistent fact of HTs. Many men have much more taken out of their donor and see no expansion. In addition; no matter how much you see your crown in photos and videos, it's not a part of your head you have personal access to from a visual perspective. You know how you feel and I don't imagine your opinion will change (and fair enough), but for my money there hasn't been any crown expansion and, if there have been any changes to the crown, it's likely a little more lost hair than some post-surgical phenomenon in my opinion.

 

On a slightly different but related note that I do think has some merit; you raise an interesting point about the colour changes between "before" and "after" photos. Whilst I don't see how it could change the visual results of someone's HT, I would agree that having looked through the archive before/after threads started by Joe the before pictures nearly always seem somewhat paler and higher in contrast than the usually softer and warmer looking after pictures.

 

Joe - is there any reason why this might be? I'm making no accusations but in the interests of fairness it's a point TE raised and one in which I see what he means. I know time and changes in equipment and all sorts of small changes can create differences, but looking at the skin tone the after photos nearly always seem a bit warmer and softer. Is there a logical explanation for this?

[corvettester]

The Emperor,

 

Hey dude, it's been a while. I'm sorry to see that things didn't work out for you after all. I totally feel for you on this one. It's really unfortunate that you're still not happy. I have to admit, I'm a little surprised—I thought you would be able to work it out with H&W.

 

As you may or may not know, I place a very high premium on post-op and customer care—especially when such a large amount of money is involved! Thus, to me, the worst part of your situation is that you still haven't come to an amicable and mutually satisfactory resolution with your doctor. The fact that you still feel let down and unsupported is a real shame.

 

The way I see it, no doctor is capable giving an excellent hair transplant to each and every patient for reasons beyond his control; however, he should be capable of giving an excellent customer care experience to each and every patient. It’s a pity when clinics fall short on this. I mean, you seem like a reasonable guy. I don’t see why they haven’t been able to placate you in some way or other.

 

I wish I could contribute intelligibly to the factual results of your HT, however, there are simply too many variables involved for me to form an opinion in good faith. I do not discount your opinion and analysis at all, as I think you’re very well informed and knowledgeable in regard to URFUT. Thus, I do think you are well within your right to be disappointed with your result.

 

Lastly, I want you to know that I personally don’t think your hair looks that bad at all. I see an improvement, albeit certainly not anything to write home about. You still got a decent amount of coverage so hopefully you can find a way to make the most of it.

 

Again, sorry to see that things didn’t turn out well for you. Many thanks for being so forthright, detailed and gentlemanly in your postings. I wish you...

 

all the best,

 

Corvettester

Edited June 16, 2011 by corvettester