Dr. Wong 6500 Grafts, 1.5 Years Post #2

[TheEmperor]

Joe,

Per Bill's instructions, I have sent you requirements in email to edit any photos you display of me to exclude any facial features and eyebrows. I have also made a formal request for a copy of my chart. Please comply.

 

The Emperor

[TheEmperor]

mahhong,

I dont know eactly what they are doing, but the after pictures show less contrast between skin and hair and as such may help the result to appear fuller than they are. I am also surprised that the photos from Joe show less detail and clarity of the hairline than my photos, leading me to believe there is some kind of blurring going on. In my case this helps to hide the jaggies.

 

My point is that the H&W Blue Wall photos are highly optimized and cast the hair in the best possible light, which does not match reality.

Edited June 16, 2011 by TheEmperor

[TheEmperor]

Corvettetester,

THe issue of customer service with H&W comes down to trust and honesty. When you've been lied to (in this case, for instance, the claim that a refund was offered), makes it difficult to deal with them. And because I believe they have problems with quality control and damaging grafts, I have no incentive to step foot in their office ever again.

 

I am sure they WANT to work with all their patients. The larger issue is the honesty and integrity in which they conduct their business.

[Guest Ian512017155]

I am sorry that not happy. If I was you I wouldn’t be happy either! Nor would I be happy with their customer service as you stated.

Most if not all clinics never give refunds in monetary means, you might get a free transplant or a steep discount but I have never heard of one to give your money back that is of course unless you sue, which is a long costly and unpredictable avenue to take.

As for Dr. Wong and company, I have seen many pictures on here, other sites and even their own sites and honesty I was never truly impressed with their work and think their whole “mega sessions” are overrated and a big risk, of course these are just my own personal opinions.

I hope in the end that you go to a doctor and they will help you achieve the results you want.

[Janna]

THe issue of customer service with H&W comes down to trust and honesty. When you've been lied to (in this case, for instance, the claim that a refund was offered), makes it difficult to deal with them. And because I believe they have problems with quality control and damaging grafts, I have no incentive to step foot in their office ever again.

 

I am sure they WANT to work with all their patients. The larger issue is the honesty and integrity in which they conduct their business.

 

 

Corvettester is right that there are patients who do not get the expected result - no matter which clinic they choose. If the doctor achieves expected result 99% of the times, that's great for everyone except the 1% of patients. To them it's 100% that they did not get what they expected. Mark of a great clinic/doctor is how they treat their 1% of patients when this occurs because there will be patients who do not get satisfied results. Even in customer/patient care process, miscommunications can occur. Overwhelmingly, H&W clinic delivers in producing happy patients and great customer care.

 

This is not to take anything away from TE's feelings of his results and care from H&W. I truly hope both are able to reach a mutual resolution. I feel compelled to chimed in here since it's difficult to see someone like Dr. Wong who rightfully earned so much respect have his integrity questioned. It's one thing to question technical, artistic and communications skills but his integrity is another.

 

Dr. Wong is unquestionably a leader in this industry and has earned respect not only for his innovations and contributions to this industry but also for his enthusastic care of his patients. I've known Dr. Wong for a long time and he like Dr. Shapiro could have kept much of their skills to themselves but not only did they share their knowledge and skills, they have been very proactive in sharing it at their own expense. I've always said if I didn't work for Dr. Ron, I'd work for Dr. Wong any day of the week.

[TheEmperor]

Janna,

 

I appreciate your comments. It is perhaps that I should be addressing my complaints about integrity against Joe, as 99% of my communication was with him. I suspect with the thousands of patients he deals with, he may not remember the specifics of my case two years after the bulk of communication has occurred.

 

For the record, no offer of refund was ever made. This thread is the first I had heard of that as a possibility, and this came from Joe, not Dr. Wong. Perhaps Joe mixed me up with another patient?

 

In hindsight, if I made a mistake in this whole matter, it was associating Joe with Dr. Wong. The majority of my communication was with Joe, he is just their internet sales rep, and his excitement about the great things Dr. Wong was going to do for me was what got me to sign up with them. Had I based my decision on actual rapport I developed with the doctor as opposed to his reputation, I would have chosen differently.

 

I dont think I was disfigured, but I think there were some yield problems which have limited my potential outcome. I also think there are some realities of the surgery that were glossed over or misrepresented. For instance, I have a 3-4mm scar which is on the high side of normal, but I have to grow my side hair to 1.75 inches to hide the scar. I feel that the doctor could have looked at my hair quality and mentioned this as a very real possibility, that I would never be able to use clippers again. But I entered into the surgery with the belief that most scars are "pencil thin" and patients can still use clippers. On the other side of the surgery, I find out the scar is normal, the reason it is hard to hide is because of my hair quality. This is something they could have warned me about so I could make an informed decision.

 

I have very few grafts left in the bank and I know I will never get to where I was initially told. I am absolutely convinced the strip increased my bald spot (and it seems about half the posters online agree with my photo evidence), and the photos show that the hairs planted between the jaggies in #2 all grew at a significantly reduced calibre. Obviously something happened wrong in the second surgery to cause this, otherwise these hairs, or at least some of them would have grown at the same diameter as the jaggy hairs. IT really does not seem like another 1500 grafts grew in the front.

 

Call it a perfect storm. Alot of things just did not go right. The realization that had I chose a different doctor, or perhaps even a different surgery date with different technicians, that the results could be significantly better, makes this painful. I have to live with what I have now.

Edited June 16, 2011 by TheEmperor

[Bill - Seemiller]

I agree with the vast majority of replies in that TE's result shows great improvement over his preoperative state. While it may not be a "wow" result, it takes a large quantity of grafts to achieve a full look on a Norwood 5A.

 

Hair transplant results always vary. Personally, I had over 9600 grafts and while most I come into contact with thinks I have a full head of hair with only very minor thinning in the back, my hair still appears thinner in the crown and under some very harsh lighting, the front is obviously not as dense as the hair on the sides and back of my head. This is just the nature of hair transplants, especially those with greater quantities of hair loss.

 

Mathematics suggests that approximately 11,000 follicular unit grafts (plus or minus depending on hair characteristics) are required on a Norwood 5A to create an adequate illusion of density. This is approximately 50% of a patient's original native density. This number comes from the following information:

 

If each person has approximately 100,000 hair follicles on their entire head, it contains approximately 45,000 follicular unit grafts (using a calculation of the average of 2.2 hairs per FU). If 50% of the hair on the scalp makes up a Norwood 5A (assuming it's fully bald), that's approximately 22,500 grafts. Thus, approximately 11,250 follicular unit grafts are required to provide 50% density evenly distributed to the Norwood 5A bald area.

 

6500 grafts is just about half of that so I'm not overly surprised that TE doesn't have the density that he'd like, especially given the area of baldness that required coverage.

 

While I certainly feel for TE and agree that it's possible he had less than optimal yield, I don't feel that further investigation of Hasson and Wong's clinic is needed. Unfortunately, all clinics have less than optimal results and while I truly feel for those who are among the select few, overall consistency in excellent results is the key in determining world renowned surgeons. Hasson and Wong have proven to produce consistent stellar results and have earned their well deserved positive reputation.

 

I agree with those who've already mentioned Dr. Wong's highly credible and prestigious reputation amongst his peers and patients for not only producing excellent ultra refined results with high yield, but for his clinic's quality of patient care and customer service. I've personally had dealings with Joe for years regarding my own and other patient's hair transplants. Thus, I feel confident that he is a true patient advocate and a man of integrity. That said, I see no reason why TE and Hasson and Wong can't work together on a plan of action that's fair and reasonable for everyone involved.

 

This community welcomes patients to share their genuine experiences and photos on this forum. We also welcome physicians to share their sides of the story. Truthfully, no member of this community, including the publishers were privy to the conversations that took place privately between TE, Joe and Dr. Wong. Thus, it's not up to the publishers, but the adult members of this community to decide and draw their own conclusions about the discussions that took place and the result.

 

At this point, while I certainly feel that Dr. Wong could further assist TE, I suggest he consider discussing his concerns with other leading physicians if he no longer feels he can trust Dr. Wong. That said, I truly believe that the Hasson and Wong clinic is one of the good guys in helping hair loss sufferers worldwide.

 

Onwards and Upwards,

 

Bill

[bonkerstonker]

Emperor just out of interest do you not get any satisfaction from your ht when thinking about where you came from to where you are now? I'd of thought anyone with your amount of hairloss who had lived with it for whatever amount of Years you did before your ht would be blown away with the change and the styling options available now. I'm wondering if you have seen too many wow results on the forums.

 

Bottom line and mean no disrespect but your pre ht loss within your nw5a area was huge! I got to admit though the crown would bother me still even if I was coming back from your pre ht loss but fue can fix that I'm sure it's not the end of the world pal you still have options if you have the money.

Edited June 16, 2011 by bonkerstonker

[Jotronic]

Before I dive into this, again, I'd like to thank Janna and Bill for their comments. They are appreciated greatly.

 

Photoshop

 

A very serious accusation has been made by TE. An accusation that we Photoshop our before/after photos with the intent to deceive and that I have altered the image of his hairline. Let me be clear. An accusation like this is very serious, and is slanderous. Unless you have proof with an unaltered version of a photo to show with an altered version by Hasson & Wong you are slandering Dr. Wong, myself and Hasson & Wong.

 

Two facts are available to dispute this claim. First, is the "EXIF" data accompanying all digital images by all digital cameras. EXIF data shows all information about a photo including the camera make, model, lens, aperture, exposure, white balance, whether a flash was used or not used, and any software that was used with the image. If Photoshop had been used on his image then it would show up in the EXIF data. It does not. In the past I have used Photoshop to re-size multiple images at one time as it saves time. To re-size ten to twenty images takes more time than I like so it's nice to have tools that can do this at once. Photoshop has not been used to alter the details of results on TE's images or anyone else's and I lay the responsibility of proof on TE. TE has a copy of the same hairline image I have shown. He is welcome to post his version and my unaltered version side by side but I have the EXIF data from this image to prove it is unaltered.

 

The second fact is that we have 170 plus HD videos of patients on our website to go along with patient photos. This alone is enough to exonerate us of any claims of manipulation as the videos show even more detail than the photos.

 

In addition, when the ISHRS meeting was in Vancouver we brought 25 patients to the conference to showcase megasessions and dense packing. No clinic has done this before or since. The editor emerritus of the ISHRS magazine at the time had this to say about our results after seeing them in person.

 

Meeting Highlights

The indeligible image I will take away from this meeting is that of the patients of Drs. Victor Hasson and Jerry Wong. These were demonstrated at the Live Patient Viewing on Friday afternoon.

 

To say that these results were "mind-blowing" would be an understatement. Please picture a young man with over 5000 FUs harvested and planted in A SINGLE SESSION and growing with close to 100% perfection. Not only growing, but planted at up to 80 grafts per square centimeter and giving the appearance of completely normal hair direction and density with no "crinkle" whatsoever and a donor scar of 1-2mm.

 

The rest of us will be a long time catching up with the skills of Jerry and Victor and their wonderful staff of assistants.

It is because of the above reasons, and about 200 to 300 other reasons by OTHER patients that have shared over the years, that the accusation of photo manipulation with the intent to deceive is not only ridiculous but false and slanderous.

 

The Emperor And Our Customer Service-

 

Before, during and after TE's first procedure with us he and I spoke many times about his concerns and I told him we'd do whatever was necessary to make him happy. For his second procedure the hairline and left "part" areas were addressed at no charge. After the procedure we continued our dialogue as he had many questions that I always answered. It wasn't until about five months after his second procedure (July 26, 2010 to be exact) that he made the following comment on another forum...

 

"I look like I have less hair than before from every other angle than the front."

 

Obviously, this is an odd statement. This prompted me to call him to discuss his concerns further.

 

**CORRECTION** After reviewing the saved archives of TE's postings on all forums I believe the reason why I called him at this time was because of his claims that I asked him to take down a posting. This of course was false and as usual, I have the correspondence documented. Everything else is as it was originally stated**

 

TE has two phone #'s listed on his contact form. One is for his home and one is for his cell. When he answered, and I identified myself, he hung up on me. Having had no negative interactions with TE before I then called his second # listed and left a message. He then went online to another forum and said the following...

 

"You attempted to contact me about this through my emergency contact#. Not cool. Then dialed my real phone# and left a message." I have this page saved for documentation.

 

Very confused by this I looked through his file to check the numbers because the last thing I want to do is call someone's emergency contact # by mistake. He has NO emergency contact number listed at all so his reaction was even more confusing. Regardless, he publicly stated that if he and I were to discuss his case it would be online or in pm's only.

 

Ever since that day TE has jumped into other member threads on this and other forums to make guerrilla style attacks on Dr. Wong and me personally. He has even gone so far as to to suggest I wore a partial hair piece on my crown, during his first consultation, when I had a different hair style, one that he refers to as "The Bieber look".

 

He has publicly stated that I told him to remove posts made on forums,which is also false. I have all of this documented and saved from other forums and from email exchanges. He has been repeatedly warned by forum administrators to stop hijacking threads and has even been the sole cause of some threads being locked because he would make claims without showing a single photo. This was for the lone purpose of causing our clinic harm. We have NEVER been rude, condescending, difficult or disagreeable with TE. Until he made his feelings clear, publicly no less, we were with him EVERY step of the way and I have every shred of evidence I need to support this.

 

I have no problem agreeing that TE's result is not thick but that is the nature of what fine hair provides and we never told him it would be any thicker. My hair is not "thick" either, even with 9360 grafts. To say that we told him he'd have a better result than me, as a cut and dry statement, is ludicrous. We told him that we hope to get up to 5500 grafts from his first session and with that we hoped to address his crown as well as the front. This too is documented.

 

This is a numbers game when it comes to aggressive hair loss. Like most of what we told him and how we corresponded with him, it is documented. Most of what he is saying is not documented, anywhere. That is the difference. Everything else is paraphrasing, misrepresentation and outright damaging false statements that have not gone unnoticed.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Jotronic
correcting information

[haircut]

Very well said Jotonic!

[mahhong]

Thanks for clearing up the issue surrounding photos, Joe! The EXIF data doesn't lie!

 

It's a shame that an amicable conclusion hasn't and now, it seems, can't be drawn up, as it's never a good situation for any doctor or patient to be in. That having been said, the thorough documentation that Joe has sustained on the issue comprised with the reputation and results would seem to vindicate them from a lot of the accusations that have been levelled.

 

I would agree that the HD videos provided for a large majority of the patients on the H+W website would seem more than adequate "proof" of the veracity of success in certain procedures.

 

Ultimately this is unfortunately turning from a thread about the results of a particular patient's procedures into a list of accusations and rebuttals - and all the while nothing is getting done about the heart of the matter. TE, whilst I think a lot of people are genuinely sorry for your feelings on the procedure's outcome, a lot of what you are saying is quite serious and needs to be backed up with facts if you can take it any further. It would seem Joe has kept a thorough paper and net trail of the whole situation and that's going to be hard to counter without solid evidence for the same of the claims you made.

 

Whilst your transplants may not have been an overriding success it certainly wasn't a failure either. But your claims of technician negligence, false promises and doctored photos are, as Joe says. quite serious. This thread would seem to have run it's course unless more evidence can be provided regarding the claims made.

 

As Bill also suggested, if you don't trust Dr. Wong and feel you need further work then it's probably best to consult with another doctor and get further opinions on the work itself and what can be done next.

 

I hope this can all get resolved satisfactorily for everybody involved.

[TheEmperor]

Joe,

 

I stand by my statement that there is something being altered between your before and after photos. The color of everyone's hair changes. Most likely you use a different set of settings on the camera. Because this pattern is consistent across almost all of your photos, it is obviously a willful decision to make the outcomes look better. This is not slander. This is you reacting to someone who has called you out publicly on this matter. Why dont you answer the question. Why does everyone's hair look 3 shades lighter in your "after" photos? Its an easy enough question.

 

 

Regarding the thread on the other forum that was closed by the moderator. The reason it was closed was not because I slandered you, or lied, or misrepresented anything. The reason it was closed was because I would not allow you to post photos that would compromise my identity. Some previous H&W patients were copying photos from my blog and reposting them in that thread. Some of these pictures were mislabelled, in an attempt to confuse my message.

 

I told people where my blog was (here on HTN) to support my conclusions, but apparently that was not enough. Because I could not link my HTN blog on the other forum, the moderator was not comfortable hosting a discussion about photos on another commercial site. I offered to post any photos you sent me to my blog, after I screened them for anonymity. You did not take me up on the offer and waited for the thread to be closed.

 

 

If you remember from that thread, some of the posters questioned your motives and said you sounded like the angry, slandering patient, and I sounded like the cool professional. I would be VERY HAPPY to have that thread opened for public review, if possible. In the meantime, don't try to recast it into something it was not.

 

 

The other threads to which you refer were not slandering you or your clinic. Someone would ask a question about scarring, and ask something like, "Can I still use clippers after I have a strip surgery." I would answer based on my personal experience at your clinic. My answer might be "I had a 4500 graft strip surgery at H&W and I have to grow the side hair to 1.75 inches to hide the scar. I can no longer use clippers on the side or back." Completely truthful, and in my opinion helpful to prospective patients to hear from someone who has problems with the scar.

 

 

You would typically jump into the thread and cause a fight, causing the thread to be derailed. Unfortunately, this creates an environment of censure where it is very difficult to express my honest opinions about the surgery. There is a much larger issue at play. I recognize that the forums are all commercial and only allow objectivity to a certain point, beyond which it impacts their revenue.

 

 

I dont remember saying that you were wearing a hair piece. The very full look with bangs that you wore in the 2006-07 time frame I have referred to as the Bieber look. In contrast to your more conservative, combed back look of later years, I have questioned how you were able to acheive such density given such advanced loss. It definitely creates a "Wow" impression when seeing it in person.

 

 

One explanation could have been a partial hair piece, a more likely explanation could be copious amounts of wax, toppik, and hairspray. Please post a link to the thread where I said you were wearing a hairpiece so we can veryify the truth of this.

 

 

My objections beyond the outcome of the surgery, relate to claims you make, like me being offered a partial refund. That is just not true. It is difficult for me to carry on a meaningful discussion with someone who lies to protect themself. Do you have any documentation showing you offered me a refund? Wong actually said of the first surgery "this was a good transplant". A refund was never on the table. Despite what looked like marginal yield to me, the second surgery was discounted because of "patient dissatisfaction"; no admission of poor yield was made on your part.

 

 

I have stated before that we can go round and round on this, but as this is your job, you will eventually wear me down. You are battling hard to maintain your image. It has become clear to me why the dissatisfied patients eventually disappear from the forums. Despite how you are painting me in this thread, I am a successful professional who is genuinely dissatisfied with the procedure. I believe the benefits were oversold, and I have also provided photo evidence of what I believe show some issues with the surgery (unattractive jaggies, expanding crown, poor yield, wide scar, etc)

 

I posted my 1.5 year photos to get some closure and update everyone on the forums with how it turned out. I feel people need to see what kind of results might actualize when the great Hasson&Wong claims, "we expect great things for you." If this causes some people to more carefully consider their options, I have done something ethical and good.

 

-The Emperor.

[TheEmperor]

Joe, it has been a full day since I have mailed you a formal request to better hide my identity in the photos you posted. I am also waiting for a copy of the chart.

 

I dont have an objection to your posting photos of the result, but there is enough identifying information in your photos for someone to identify me from them. They need to be edited properly. Look at my own photos. No details of my face, facial hair, or eyebrows are shown.

 

Bill, if Joe has not properly edited the photos within the next couple hours, please take them down. I am sure he will be happy to put up less revealing images when he gets the time, and I have no objection to that, as long as no features of my face or eyebrows are shown.

[TheEmperor]

Emperor just out of interest do you not get any satisfaction from your ht when thinking about where you came from to where you are now? I'd of thought anyone with your amount of hairloss who had lived with it for whatever amount of Years you did before your ht would be blown away with the change and the styling options available now.

 

Bonkerstoner,

 

Satisfaction? Yes and no. Having hair on top fulfills some psychological need, so in that regard, even though I dont think it looks good, it does look better than being a cue ball.

 

On the other hand, I am now a slave to a specific styling routine, have to have very frequent haircuts, and actually have less options than I had before. I used to be able to use clippers on my side and back hair which had a very clean look. Even just 5 years ago, I had enough hair on top, that with the sides clipped short I did not look bald or "bad".

 

Wind is now an issue, and the spectre of future loss means I am on the treadmill for life. Also, there are the hair lookers. Can they detect it? A more sustainable solution would have been to get 3K fue in a diffuse, see-through pattern on top. I would have been able to buzz the sides, it would have been very low maintenance, a very clean look, and I would not be bald. Essentially returning me to my state of around 5 years ago. What I have now feels like some variation of a combover.

 

So while correctly styled, I look better, but I dont look THAT much better, and with the new hair comes a host of problems.

Edited June 17, 2011 by TheEmperor

[TheEmperor]

Joe,

I have noticed that the photos you posted by me are hosted on your personal hairtransplantmentor.com site. As those photos are property of Hasson and Wong, why is it that they are hosted on a third party, independent site? Do H&W own hairtransplantmentor.com?

 

Please remove the photos until they can be edited properly to hide all areas of my face, facial hair, and eyebrows.

[stamos]

TheEmperor, I am sorry that you didn't end up with the result you would like.

 

My comments, since I am also a HT (repair) patient, as follows:

 

Whilst your result isn't optimal in terms of thickness and fullness, it is not unnatural for the HT industry standards. Unfortunately almost all doctors that stating that their result are natural under ALL CIRCUMSTANCES are partially lying regarding HT patients with advanced nw scale.

 

At open windy environments I think any result will not look natural, as the styling of a HT patient with high NW scale coverage will include a combover (in order to hide thinning areas like crown) and that combover will not stand at the wind. Especially with long hair, front to back combover it will be more obvious. Usually you will see single grafted frizzy long hair from the hairline to look weird at the forehead, except if you have put some much styling aid that it will stand on high beaufort scale.

 

Another occasion that a HT will not look natural is under heavy sweat, where again the styling will not remain in place and the single hair will look odd and frizzy on the forehead.

 

Finally, I think that all hair transplants on high NW scale patients will look seethrough under harsh light and therefore detected from persons with a degree of knowledge/experience about HTs.

 

But I do not think you will have to worry about these, as there are really few people that can detect a HT refined as yours, especially I will be surprised if a female can detect (except if she's related to HT in someway)

 

Are you using any styling product? I think that the "middle parted" look from your blog should be avoided.

[Bill - Seemiller]

TE,

 

Joe has used standard practice in blocking out your face when presenting your photos. However, we do respect anonymity and if creating a slightly bigger box around your face will help make you feel better, I'm sure Joe will have no problem obliging. I did see the email to Joe you copied me on and replied as well. But where he's presented he's hosting these photos shouldn't make any difference. He's not physically displaying them on any other site...he's simply hosting them. It'd be the same as using some other third party site to host the photo. Thus, I'm not going to make an issue of where he's hosting your photos.

 

Nobody, including me was privy to the conversations that took place between you, Joe and Hasson and Wong. Thus, continuing an online debate with Joe isn't beneficial to anyone.

 

Regarding your result however, while you may not be completely happy, in my opinion, it doesn't look bad at all. Personally, I feel that one more pass (whether you choose Hasson and Wong or another quality physician) will help you achieve more density and thus, a better looking result overall.

 

I know what it's like to feel like people are staring at my head. I used to think that anyone who ever looked up toward my scalp when I was practically bald was looking at me in disgust. But the reality is, our mind plays tricks on us when we're personally insecure about something. Realistically, you don't know why people may or may not be looking at you. People could have been looking at something over your head and not at your scalp at all. Or those looking at you could be thinking something positive and not the worst like you're conjecturing. When we're insecure about something, we always think the worst. To this day, I still see some people looking up at my hair. But many of these same people have commended me on how much they love my hair and are surprised at my age that I'm not going bald. None of them know I had a hair transplant.

 

It's possible that not all the transplanted grafts grew. Unfortunately, this happens to some patients for unknown reasons. While it's 100% relevant to those who've had less than full growth, it's not fair to condemn a physician/clinic who regularly produces excellent results. That's why I firmly believe that clinics and patients should continue to work together on a case by case basis, explore and determine the problem, and work towards a resolution that's fair and amicable to all involved.

 

Best wishes in getting your concerns resolved either by further working with Hasson and Wong or other well respected physicians,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Ian,

 

Your last post serves no purpose but to bait a well respected member of this community into a fight. Thus, your last comment was deleted. Please read and become familiar with our terms of service before posting again.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[M1A1]

As I have read various posts throughout this thread, I am in disbelief that TE has been so vehemently attached by Joe-since I have always held in high regard Joe and H&W. We must never forget that TE is a PATIENT...

 

I know there always three sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth. Clearly TE is not happy and frankly-he shouldn't be. This is a sub par result, period. From his part side the HT does not look natural. I will say this though , the styling aid does help and adds a more natuaral appearance however, this is not a good outcome for 6500 FU'S on TE. Not to mention he has invested somehwere around 15k+ and more importantly almost three years of his life...

 

My belief is if TE had been offerred a full refund he could have moved on with his life and the negative PR fight that H&W is now engulfed in could have been avoided and their stellar reputauion as a clininc that puts their patients best interest first would be upheld.

 

Clinics do not bat 1000 everytime and when mistakes are made, they should be professional enough to admit it do the right thing[based on patient & docto discussion] and move on.

 

TE, I'm curious, would you mind taking pictures of your HT outside with and with out the styling aid Joe used on you in his still pictures. I cannot stress how sorry I am for you as I know this has been very difficult for you. I wish you the very best. A bit of advice, pay attention to Drew's results with Dr. Umar, as this may be an option for you coupled with the big three-if you can tolerate the foam and the propecia. You will be surprised as to what Rogain can do with HT hair. Again wishing you the very best.

 

And now Bill, keeping this thread open shows your desire to be fair.

[TheEmperor]

As I have read various posts throughout this thread, I am in disbelief that TE has been so vehemently attached by Joe-since I have always held in high regard Joe and H&W. We must never forget that TE is a PATIENT...

 

I know there always three sides to every story, your side, my side and the truth. Clearly TE is not happy and frankly-he shouldn't be. This is a sub par result, period. From his part side the HT does not look natural. I will say this though , the styling aid does help and adds a more natuaral appearance however, this is not a good outcome for 6500 FU'S on TE. Not to mention he has invested somehwere around 15k+ and more importantly almost three years of his life...

 

My belief is if TE had been offerred a full refund he could have moved on with his life and the negative PR fight that H&W is now engulfed in could have been avoided and their stellar reputauion as a clininc that puts their patients best interest first would be upheld.

 

Clinics do not bat 1000 everytime and when mistakes are made, they should be professional enough to admit it do the right thing[based on patient & docto discussion] and move on.

 

TE, I'm curious, would you mind taking pictures of your HT outside with and with out the styling aid Joe used on you in his still pictures. I cannot stress how sorry I am for you as I know this has been very difficult for you. I wish you the very best. A bit of advice, pay attention to Drew's results with Dr. Umar, as this may be an option for you coupled with the big three-if you can tolerate the foam and the propecia. You will be surprised as to what Rogain can do with HT hair. Again wishing you the very best.

 

And now Bill, keeping this thread open shows your desire to be fair.

 

M1A1,

I appreciate your comments. It is surprising to me that they can't admit that mistakes were made, even with the photo evidence I have provided.

 

Some simple math puts things into perspective: The strips taken were 30cm x 2.6cm. That is 10"x1", or ten square inches of hair!

 

That is an amount of grafts that would cover the front (with the conservative/receded hairline) at full density. As most of the grafts were focused in this area, I can say I did not get anywhere near full density, not even half density. I would say about 1/3rd original density.

 

I feel really bad for Drew. IMO, they should have never operated on him. Unfortunately, Drew seems to be blaming himself for the outcome, because he asked for a hairline that was "lower than prudent."

 

I might be able to get some outdoor shots.

Edited June 17, 2011 by TheEmperor

[M1A1]

TE,

 

I think your density estimation is about on par-again from my perspective as layman.

 

As for Drew, I hope everything works out for him as well as for all of us.

 

Look forward to your outside pics,

Best

[hairthere]

m1a1, The clinic will not offer him a refund, and here's why: 1) HT results are not guaranteed. Clinics warn the consumer of this in the waiver you sign pre-surgery. 2) HTs are subjective (there are folks here who feel Emperor's results are not as terrible as he thinks they are--myself included). If clinics start offering refunds for every unhappy customer, who's to stop every patient from asking for their money back?

 

Again, I'm not saying Emperor should be forced into accepting this result as a satisfactory one. Perhaps his HT was over promised and under delivered. That's why I think it's very important for clinics to be extremely thorough in the consultation process and to really educate the consumer. It's also important that the patient do his due diligence and understand the limitations of HT surgery. People keep seeing the big graft count (6500) and thinking automatic homerun, but this patient was a high NW with medium-fine hair.

[Jotronic]

I stand by my statement that there is something being altered between your before and after photos. The color of everyone's hair changes. Most likely you use a different set of settings on the camera. Because this pattern is consistent across almost all of your photos, it is obviously a willful decision to make the outcomes look better. This is not slander. This is you reacting to someone who has called you out publicly on this matter. Why dont you answer the question. Why does everyone's hair look 3 shades lighter in your "after" photos? Its an easy enough question.

This is not calling me out. This is an attempt to deflect the issues. I have not answered because it is irrelevant to this thread. People have inquired about this from time to time over the years and I have answered every time. Do a search. In the meantime, I highly suggest you check yourself with this regard. I won't say it again. Prove it or cease and desist.

 

Now, back on track...

 

 

You would typically jump into the thread and cause a fight, causing the thread to be derailed. Unfortunately, this creates an environment of censure where it is very difficult to express my honest opinions about the surgery. There is a much larger issue at play. I recognize that the forums are all commercial and only allow objectivity to a certain point, beyond which it impacts their revenue.

The record shows a different story. For instance, the last thread that was locked, approximately two months ago, was asking what should be involved in consultations. In the posts below I'm not only NOT attacking you I am agreeing with you.

 

 

In the same thread later on the question about using micrometers during consultations comes up. You clearly make a comment/question about Dr. Wong that is antogonistic and downright nasty.

 

 

 

Further to that, you asked the moderator of the other forum to reinstate a thread that was a whirlwind of nothingness to prove some point to which he not only refused he also referenced exactly what I am talking about with your behavior.

 

 

I do not attack you, I respond to your misinformation and contradictions with the correct information and I have many more examples on file.

 

I dont remember saying that you were wearing a hair piece. The very full look with bangs that you wore in the 2006-07 time frame I have referred to as the Bieber look. In contrast to your more conservative, combed back look of later years, I have questioned how you were able to acheive such density given such advanced loss. It definitely creates a "Wow" impression when seeing it in person.

 

 

One explanation could have been a partial hair piece, a more likely explanation could be copious amounts of wax, toppik, and hairspray. Please post a link to the thread where I said you were wearing a hairpiece so we can veryify the truth of this.

I will not post a link because I won't burden everyone with the need to leave this page to go to another website. I do have a screenshot though along with many others. For you to suggest I might wear a hair piece or Toppik is more slander. You have seen me in person, twice and you had every opportunity to inspect my hair as closely as you want. HUNDREDS of people have inspected my hair and several called you out on your suggestion. Instead of making "suggestions" of deceit you could simply ask. I have also not only described online what I do with my hair, I even made a video about it.

 

The post below is from a thread that was started asking me about my laxity. I had just completed my 4th procedure and you felt the need to chime in with more of your suggestive questioning that had nothing to do with the subject matter.

 

 

You have now stated, at least twice, that I might be wearing a hair piece. You have also just stated that I may be wearing Toppik. What I think you fail to recognize is that when you have multiple individuals testifying online to the contrary you choose to ignore these testimonies and continue your suggestive and slanderous statements.

 

My objections beyond the outcome of the surgery, relate to claims you make, like me being offered a partial refund. That is just not true. It is difficult for me to carry on a meaningful discussion with someone who lies to protect themself. Do you have any documentation showing you offered me a refund? Wong actually said of the first surgery "this was a good transplant". A refund was never on the table. Despite what looked like marginal yield to me, the second surgery was discounted because of "patient dissatisfaction"; no admission of poor yield was made on your part.

 

Then consider it withdrawn as it is not documented so there is no way to confirm it one way or the other. I am only going to deal with documented ocurrences of which I have many.

 

There are better ways of handling issues. Up until TE's five month post-op mark from HT#2 we were communicating amicably and respectfully on a fairly regular basis. TE suddenly decided to cut off communication with us by hanging up on me then taking to his campaign of misinformation and slander online, as previously documented. During our prior correspondence and phone calls I had never ever been disrespectful or anything less than cooperative with TE. EVER. If TE cares to refute this I have dozens of emails to back this up.

 

I stand by my assertion that this is a good result. I have never said it is a thick result. To be able to transform from this before, to this after, is in my opinion a full on transition to "The Bieber look" that he so desires. All he needs is a few more grafts in the crown and maybe a different hair cut. If this was a case of bad growth as he asserts then I think it is safe to say that the style below would not be possible.

 

 

 

 

I really do wish TE well and hope he finds what he wants. I will however ask that the spreading of misinformation and slander be discontinued as it only antogonizes the situation which is already unfortunate. There is no need to make it more so.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Jotronic

[Guest Ian512017155]

The client clearly stated a number of time s that he didn’t want his face to be shown in order to protect his identity?

[TheEmperor]

Joe,

As I said before on multiple occasions, you will be able to wear me down eventually. The out of context posts are scrambled and do not tell the whole story, but I don't have the time to set them straight. You are not trying to argue to a truthful conclusion, you are just trying to obfuscate things until I leave in frustration.

 

 

Most of the people who posted in the HLH threads were in agreement with me, with the exception of yourself and a couple former H&W patients. H&W pays good money to these sites for advertizing; and the moderators are mindful of that. I have discovered that the unhappy former H&W patients lurk in the background and contact people offline. That is the only way to spread the truth. Your image is not nearly as sterling as you think.

 

That said, I have removed my blog. The pictures are mine, and they are private. Please remove the pictures you copied from my blog from your posts. They are not yours to post.