My 1 Year anniversary take a look and lend me your thoughts... (New pics added)

[orlhair1]

TC17.....I agree.....whatever is causing the thinning would have the same cosmetic effect. So potentially the transplanted area looks thin again and the donor area thins to the point the scar is visible......does not sound like something I want to risk. I also don't want to have to have an additional transplant to replace or add density appearance to an area I already had transplanted in the first place.

[TC17]

orlhair1, you are correct in putting the emphasis is on the word "potentially." You may never have a noticeable change in the donor area, you may have a quite significant change in the donor area. The point is not to scare people away from surgery, it's simply to recognize that this is a possibility that should be discussed more often than it is, and that proper long term planning is not a luxury, it's a necessity.

[orlhair1]

I am just going to talk to my Dr. about it and understand what the risks are and based on that I will decide whether to go forward or not. It all comes down to a risk benefit analysis in the end.

[corvettester]

Hey guys,

 

Senile Alopecia is an important topic. Therefore, I took the liberty of starting a new thread in the Hair Restoration Questions and Answers section.

 

You can find it here: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/160903-senile-alopecia-how-common.html#post2266316

 

Hopefully, we can build broader awareness of the issue and got other docs to chime in.

 

 

Corvettester

[Jotronic]

Thank you for the new photos. I'm going to share my impressions on your case based on the photos you have shared thus far.

 

What your new photos represent is something that has bugged me for a while about some results that are posted. You have spend many thousands of dollars for your transplant(s) but I have not seen one photo of your hair actually styled. Every one of your photos that you posted, except for the photo I am linking to, was taken with flash. This photo was taken with the light source being a general overhead lightbulb thus it represents the most accurate representation of your result.

 

 

What I see in this image is that while your hair may be dry it is not combed. Your hair is fine and curly. Uncombed or unstyled, your hair will naturally bunch or clump together. You should invest in your hair with a cut and style and maintain it since you have spent so much time for the surgeries themselves.

 

This is not to say that your result is good or bad. It is to dissect why in reality no one has a right to say one way or the other about your case. There is not a single image posted where your hair is styled and not a single image posted where any real detail can be seen. For anyone to say that you have bad growth or even a pluggy result is inaccurate since there are not any photos that allow for such an analysis to be given.

 

Until you tame your hair with a good style and a take good photos without a flash no one is in a position to say your result is good or bad. I'm sure once you and Dr. Feller have an opportunity to meet he will see that your hair looks better than in your photos and he'll be able to take some new photos that you can share with the group.

[aaron1234]

Totally agree with Jotronic. Why the heck would someone spend thousands of dollars on a transplant and NOT style the hair in a way that would compliment it?!? Styling is everything.

 

Also, get on Finasteride. Looking forward to hearing what Dr. Feller has to say about this case.

[Cant decide]

Completely agree with Joetronic. Layering is everything!!!

[Levrais]

I probably missed the explanation earlier in this thread but why are we looking at 2 year old pics?

[aaron1234]

Trooper posted this thread a couple days ago. I imagine the year date on the camera photos are wrong.

[Spanker]

I think that bottom line is that this is a poor result. Is it an expectation that we must style and comb an HT just so-so for it to look decent? If that is the case...docs and reps, please let us know.

 

Also, I feel like there is a unwritten rule that you are not suppose to get on this forum and let people know that you have had less than an optimal result. If you do you are treated with disrespect from some. I do not like this.

 

I don't think Trooper did anything wrong by displaying his result, and there is no spin that be put on this thread to convince me (or any other non-biased person) in my opinion that this is an acceptable result.

 

Sure, you can take photos of a basically bald person to make it look like you have hair, but I think it is much harder to take pics of a person with good hair and make them look bald.

 

Could Trooper style his hair for a better appearance?? Probably he could, but I don't think that is what he had in mind with his 4000 grafts. I would really like to see a doctors website that has a selling point of: "If you get a transplant in my clinic, and comb and style your hair just right, and you are in the right lighting, you will look like you havent a decent head of hair."

 

I respect Doctor Feller, appreciate what he does for the forum, and I think he is a skilled doctor. I also think it is important to let members here know that there is a chance for an unacceptable result and what the doctor is willing to do in that case. Judging the lighting and lack of styling on a result like this is not acceptable to me. Focus should be on helping this patient...not judging lighting and lack of styling.

 

I am pro HT and not trying to make trouble here...I just think there are better ways to go about helping the unfortunate people with less than optimal results.

 

(BTW...I have not seen any pics that made think you look pluggy.)

Edited May 23, 2011 by Spanker
spelling

[corvettester]

Joetronic,

 

I can understand your frustration, as I imagine that you have to deal with issues of poor photo quality on a daily basis in your profession. Not to mention the fact that you have such high standards at H&W and have been a pioneer in the industry in regard to accurate and detailed photo/video results. However, I’m going to have to disagree with you on this one for a few reasons.

 

My concerns are broad and cover trends that I have witnessed throughout the HTN since I became a member eight months ago. They’re not directed specifically against you or even exclusively to Tropper’s case; nonetheless, here they are...

 

You and Dr. Konior, among others, have argued the futility and subjectivity of analyzing photos online of posters with poor results. I can assure you that you’re arguments are well taken. However, it still doesn’t sit right with me because when the results are good, nobody is questioning photo quality. Not once have I ever heard anyone say, “These pics do not conclusively prove an outstanding result.”

 

It’s only ever when someone is making a complaint, claiming bad or less than optimal results, that suddenly it becomes essential to have good pics. Further, what troubles me most is that it’s only when someone is making a complaint against a coalition doctor that controversy arises.

 

When a patient experiences outstanding results, nobody questions him. However, when he experiences poor results from a coalition doctor, so many posters second guess, accuse, and insinuate ulterior motives, etc... It’s just not right.

 


I hate to sound cynical, but something tells me that if Trooper had posted the exact same photos, yet claimed that his result was from Bosley, then he would have had a rash of supporters with very different opinions of his results.

 

Furthermore, I think that the idea that he should have to style up his hair and portray it in the best possible condition is unfair as well. I mean, just look at Troopers hair... it’s bad! Yes, I understand that he has thin, curly hair, but that doesn’t change anything: people with thin, curly hair have outstanding results all the time!

 

I can only imagine how much styling and concealers he’s going to have to undergo in order to hide his result. There simply is no “illusion of density” to speak of. If anything, it’ll take some very clever and laborious styling and effort just to get a minimum illusion in a best-case scenario. I pity the man on a windy or rainy day, driving with the windows down, in a room at work with bright fluorescent lights, or any of the countless other situations that can ruin his meticulous styling campaign.

 

Is this what we’re aiming for with URFUT/URFUE in 2011?

 

I think we owe it to him to be a little more forthright and candid in our response and analysis of his case. No more blaming the victim or questioning his motives as some have egregiously done with Trooper and others (not you though, Joetronic).

 

Thus, I think his pics are good enough to get a general idea of his result and the challenges he faces to conceal his MPB as well as his poor result from the HT itself. He’s got a lot on his plate...

 


Of course, we’d all like some better pics of Trooper, but it isn’t really necessary at this point. The fact of the matter is, all the styling in the world, the best photos, assurance from HTN members, doctor analysis, will not change the simple fact that he is justifiably not happy with his result—and he ought not be!

 

We shouldn’t sugarcoat it either, nor should we pressure him with doubt and guilt into giving us every last painful detail in high-definition. We owe him our compassion. It’s clear form his posts that he is riddled with self-guilt for even posting his own honest experience. He doesn’t even want to discourage anyone else because of his misfortune, or even risk tainting his doctor’s reputation.

 

Lastly, the way I see it, the average Joe simply cannot appreciate the importance of photo quality the way professionals do. Trooper, among others, probably has a day job, family and friends. Posting HD photos of his results in natural lighting from several different angles probably isn’t top on his list of priorities. Right now, he just needs our support.

 

I really hope you can appreciate where I’m coming from on this one. You must be inundated with this stuff all day long so I’m sure it can become very frustrating at times. Nevertheless, perhaps a little perspective is what’s needed here.

 

Try to think back to when you were in newbie shoes and all the muck you had to sort through to get trustworthy, reliable answers and viable solutions to your hair loss problems. Don’t take for granted your experience and assume that the vast knowledge that you have acquired over the years is readily apparent to all.

 

Lastly, though I disagree with you on this one, let me say thanks for being one of the few consultants out there that is open-minded enough to consider opposing and dissenting views. You’re the only consultant that I have ever witnessed acknowledge and take responsibility for less than optimal results on a patient from the doctor you represent. So thanks for your dedication to transparency and your integrity.

 

 

Corvettester

Edited May 23, 2011 by corvettester
Style and Grammar

[orlhair1]

I agree with Corvettester completely. Anyone doing their research knows that even in the hands of the top surgeons, occasionally the result is not good or what either the patient or the doctor expected. This needs to be acknowledged in this case and more readily by some in this forum. The good thing for this patient is he chose a top doctor who I am sure will do all he can to help. In this case no level of styling is going to make this a result that anyone would be happy or satisfied with.

[LadyNeedsHair]

I think that bottom line is that this is a poor result. Is it an expectation that we must style and comb an HT just so-so for it to look decent? If that is the case...docs and reps, please let us know.

 

Also, I feel like there is a unwritten rule that you are not suppose to get on this forum and let people know that you have had less than an optimal result. If you do you are treated with disrespect from some. I do not like this.

 

 

Well said Spanker...hence the reason I am not sharing my crappy results on this board.

[Bill - Seemiller]

LadyNeedsHair,

 

All patients are welcome and encouraged to share their experiences and photos on this forum whether they're happy or not. Honestly, I don't see anyone disrespecting Trooper for sharing his concerns.

 

There will always be dissenting opinions given the varying personalities, opinionis and thought processes that make up this large patient community. However, I see nothing wrong with any of the above posts and see nobody discouraging or insulting Trooper for sharing his genuine experience.

 

Trooper,

 

Thanks for sharing your experience and photos on this forum. I do agree that this community could benefit from some more recent, high quality photos of your hair dry and styled. This does not mean ncessarily mean that all 4000 grafts did or did not grow, but would be easier to compare your before and after pictures. I also strongly encourage you to contact and schedule an in-person consult with Dr. Feller to evaluate your concerns in person. Alternatively, if Dr. Feller is too far away, you could always consult another leading surgeon recommended by this community who practices closer to your location. Afterwards, I encourage you to update this community on the consult and plans on moving forward. I trust that Dr. Feller or another leading physician can help you get the head of hair you deserve.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Guest Ian512017155]

Is it possible to get a hair transplant and be able to style your hair anyway you want and it will look good or are you limited in styling options? It seems by some of these comments when people post would some could consider unflattering results, everyone attacks that person because of poor lighting, or the hair is wet or they styled it wrong to make it look worse than it is.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Ian512017155

[Guest Ian512017155]

Also why do some people on here seem to hate Dr. Feller? He seems like the most disliked doctor on here, when someone post results that may seem to be unflattering to the patient, everyone automatically states the results are poor, or plugging he needs to issue a refund, etc. Of course spex comments and or replies on here at times don’t help either with the cause and that is to resolve this issue peacefully.

 

I think we need to allow the patient to talk with Dr. Feller and see him personally to look over this issue and I am sure if is something that can be done Dr.Feller will work with the patient, maybe the patient has bad physiology which is something the doctor nor the patient can do anything about. I just think everyone should stop attacking the patient and the doctor’s until more is known.

[RCWest]

LadyNeedsHair-I remember us talking via message a while back. I'm sorry to hear you are unhappy with your results, but 1581 grafts is not a lot for the area you needed. Plus you probably had a little shock loss to boot. Not to say things may not have gone right, as you could possibly be having donor area issues also. That Accutane drug was CRAP! They should pay everyone who had bad side effects!

 

Ian-Very few people actually dislike Dr. Feller, it's just that he probably gets more exposure than most docs on here, hence more negative feedback. Plus he will speak his mind and sometimes come across in a coarse manner. Never the less, he is highly respected and really seems to be a great guy.

[Tao]

Do you have to style your hair transplant just so for it to look decent? Well, I'd say that there are definitely ways to style your hair that are either going to maximize the positive impact of an HT or minimize the impact, or even make it look bad. Layering, etc. definitely adds to the illusion of density. And that's what most of get - an illusion of density. In most cases of higher Norwood levels, you just can't restore a head of hair back to its original density. That's just the plain and dirty reality. But you can often restore enough density to enable one to have a hairstyle that maximizes the illusion - sometimes to the point where it looks like amazing density. I don' t think that is any secret being withheld from anyone.

[Spanker]

Do you have to style your hair transplant just so for it to look decent? Well, I'd say that there are definitely ways to style your hair that are either going to maximize the positive impact of an HT or minimize the impact, or even make it look bad. Layering, etc. definitely adds to the illusion of density. And that's what most of get - an illusion of density. In most cases of higher Norwood levels, you just can't restore a head of hair back to its original density. That's just the plain and dirty reality. But you can often restore enough density to enable one to have a hairstyle that maximizes the illusion - sometimes to the point where it looks like amazing density. I don' t think that is any secret being withheld from anyone.

 

I understand that you can maximize the illusion....but a comb over gives the illusion too.

 

I don't think that anybody really uses the word illusion as a selling point either. I have been around the forums for a while now and I still have not figured out what it means I guess. What I THOUGHT it meant is that you can transplant around 50 percent of the original density (esp in the frontal third) and you would appear to have a full head of hair because people can not notice hairloss on the head unitl it has reached about 50 percent of the original density.

[Tao]

Spanker,

 

Certainly there are degrees of illusion. Yes, a combover can give you an illusion. And a combover with an HT can give a much better illusion. Some higher Norwood levels getting an HT will still need to utilize some comb-over strategy to maximize the effect of an HT. Some, with wavy or really thick hair or starting at a lower Norwood level, might not (the lucky so and sos).

 

50 percent of original density is really just an illusion of full density. A pretty damn good and effective illusion. Much better than a combover with lonely wispy hairs. I think people contemplating going the HT route, especially those higher up on the Norwood scale, definitely need to understand that and the limitations of HT. After two HTs, my hair looks so much better than the wispy semi-comb-over I had pre-HT. Most of the time now it looks like I have almost no balding issues anymore. But under certain conditions (wet hair, really windy days, harsh lighting, etc), clearly my lack of original density is exposed. Ideal? Hell no. But good enough, especially compared to where I started? Hell yeah.

 

Each person has to decide what is acceptable for themselves though. We shell out a lot of hard earned money for these procedures so I'm in agreement with you that HTs and possible outcomes should not be oversold or inevitably, people are going to be disappointed.

[socbook1DB5]

You are trying to get coverage over pretty much your entire head with 4,000 or so hairs. Without the benefit of really thick wiry hair, 4,000 hairs can only cover so much. That's a reality everyone needs to realize.

Your new hair looks natural so that's a plus. Also, people that think your about to go completely bald will be confused in 10 years when you still have it.

You definitely could benefit from another procedure with some strategically applied graphs in the frontal island area to get some stronger density.

To address your initial question. If you see a good bit of super weak thin hairs, those are the ones that will thicken up over time. I am at the 11 month mark, and have about 10% of my transplanted hairs that are weak and should improve. So if you see a lot of weak hairs, that is where you will find improvement.

[Spanker]

That is true T,

 

That is why I am really trying to figure out what my expectations are and if it is worth the money for what I am getting. Not only the money, but the emotional and physical toll of the long journey of an HT. (Sorry for highjacking your thread Trooper).

 

I guess my expectations are to have great looking hair, upper 90 percents of yield, and not look like I have had hair restoration surgery.

 

The word I hate the most in the HT world is the word "illusion." What does that even mean?? People have discussed this before but I still don't get it. I guess I just feel a little down because this is a battle that as of now we really are winning full. To spend as much as you have and still have to worry about windy days? I have never seen a good transplant, so I probably need to actually see one to the be able to understand what I should expect. I do not think that the forum pics are gonna cut it.

[SkinUpPinUp]

Judging by the silence by both Trooper and Dr Feller on this, I'm guessing that they're in the process of sorting this out now.

 

Naturally, continued silence from both parties may look a bit suspect to the conspiracy watchers on the forum, so fingers-crossed we should get an update soon. This could even be educational to others dealing with less than optimal results that may need revision.

 

Let's wish them both the best of luck in getting this sorted out.

[Tao]

To Spanker: I hear ya. In my case, I was pretty much completely bald on top all the way back through my crown and now I have coverage everywhere - very strong front third and decent coverage in the crown. I'd like more there and if I had unlimited funds, I'd go one more round. But its getting hard for me to justify the expense with all my other responsibilities and priorities. Still, the transformation in my case has been pretty miraculous and has more than met my expectations. I have quite thick hair though and so grafts go farther on me than others with thinner hair. I hope you can meet some people who've had HT in person and get a better feel for what you'd be getting into. Good luck to you!

[trooper]

Hey Everyone... I have read all the posts and wanna thank all of you for your support as well as your honesty. I have spoken to my doctor about the situation and was told that pretty much all my hairs that were transplanted grew out. The issue that i am facing and the reason why it looks the way it does is that the hairs in my donor area (microscopically), are spread out. i do not have to many 3's and 4's rather a lot of 1's and 2's. Because of the nature of my hair, it is extremely difficult to get optimal results with 2000 grafts vs a person that has more 3's and 4's to donate. To make matters worse, my hair is curly so the actual root/shaft of the hair is wider meaning the hairs cannot be placed to close like that of a person with straight hair and a smaller diameter shaft hence, my hairs have to be transplanted farther apart from each other which gives room for light to hit the scalp.

On a positive note, i was told i have a very flexible scalp and can undergo another 1-2, possibly 3 more transplants. My next surgery (should i choose to have one) would consist of ~1800 grafts placed in between my recent TP to add density. According to my doctor, my very first surgery ~7 years ago, he had spread out the 2100 grafts throughout my scalp from front to back because i still had some native hair, hence the reason i still have some hair now in locations other than the front. This time around, he concentrated on my frontal area. I was told that this next surgery (this 3rd one) would give density to my frontal area with the 1800 grafts. The next HT afterwards (my 4th one) will be concentrated in the mid area which i would imagine would look like my frontal area now, but assuming i comb it back, should give off some yield.

Now the question is... Should i go ahead with a 3rd procedure? I'm leaning towards yes because quite frankly, Up till now, you cant tell i had a hair transplant rather, as of now, it "appears" like I'm loosing hair and will be going bald soon. Also, the scar behind my head is there already so that wont change. In addition, iv done 2 procedures already and although I'm still not satisfied, the hairs did grow and iv had no complications so if i can get more hair planted in, it can only improve my situation as opposed to doing nothing. My take on this matter is that if i do nothing, then nothing will change. I don't have any of the conditions that were listed here such as transplant miniaturization. Just that my hair is naturally thin and for the fact it still has ~5 months to mature to its original thickness.

Just to set the record straight, however, the pictures shown on the first page ARE current. I just didn't set the year properly on the camera. Also, the brightest picture that you see is the ONLY picture where i DID NOT use the flash. I have florescent lighting that is literally 5 inches from my head (I have low ceilings). All the other pictures were taken with a flash. I would also like to add that my hair is not unstyalable when dry. I can style it just fine when wet but once it drys without any gel, the end result is what you see in the pictures.

Now i was afraid this was going to happen. orlhair1 is a prime example of why i wasn't very comfortable with my post. Its not for the fact that my results thus far arent very good but it appears i am deterring people from getting a HT in order to better "there" life. He is only 1 person who posted but what about the others who are just reading this and making a decision not to go through with it? If anyone here is contemplating on getting a HT.... I really hope you guys arent using my post to sway you away from bettering your self esteem and improving your lifestyle. There are more good outcomes than bad so please read ALL the facts and ask as many questions as you want/can to be 100% certain on your decision. Please do NOT make this post a major factor in your decision.

At this juncture, i haven't lost hope and i feel that i must be optimistic. I would like to get your 2 cents whether i should or should not continue with getting a 3rd transplant. Thanks again for everyone's support and honesty on this issue that i am facing. Good or bad, I'm looking forward to hearing your replies.