Portugal25

4 hours ago, Fitamess said:

I was lead to believe turkey was the place to go. Istanbul , because i can get a direct flight. Will research the others you suggested.  I’m 38 , Norwood 03 or maybe 04. Based in the US.

@Fitamess who told this either hates you or is totally clueless.
Turkey is the world capital of botched hair transplants. 
There are hundreds of hairmill clinics where underpaid technicians  without a medical background (taxi drivers 1 month before doing your surgery) are doing surgery on several patients per day.

You can be lucky to get a very experienced tech team and get a acceptable result or join the list of countless botched transplants that require a repair surgery with a propper Doctor.
There was a Italian guy that actually died in one of these hairmills and was wrapped in towels.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9989033/Italian-man-mysteriously-dies-heart-attack-hair-transplant-operation-Turkey.html

Hairmills copy results from great Doctors like Bisanga, Couto, De Freitas and post them on their website and social media. This is enough to capture uninformed patients looking for a cheap surgery. 
They have also schills that register at HRN with different usernames to promote their hairmills (very discretely to make it seem they are not schills). Any minute now a schill will be coming to this thread about a guy thinking of going to a hairmill in Instambul to insert the name of his hairmill in this thread. This happened at HRN just yesterday. 

ASMED is a hairmill with techs doing surgery on several patients per day with zero to little involvement from a Doctor.  Several HRN members were left with a botched surgery and ASMED mistreated them. 
Academic is one of hundreds low cost hairmills. 
Aygin is not a Doctor I would ever recommend here’s one lf the reasons why: 

You need to start researching Doctors  by looking at their real patients posting the results from day 1 to 12 months after surgery. 

Take a look at this table that will help you get started with your research. 
 

I highly advise you to start taking Finasteride 3x/week in order to stop your hairloss and strengthen your native hair (donor area). 

If you want a low cost Doctors you have Dr. Arika at Eugenix at 1.60€/graft.

Extracting Manually or Motorized has no impact on the quality of end results. A good Doctor can do both types of extractions during the surgery depending on what the graft they are extracting requires. 

Wish you all the best and hope you stay clear of Turkey unless it’s go to Dr. Pekiner or Dr. Ozgur at HLC (or at least Dr. Bicer). 

@CRichyou are a NW6 and your donor does not seem great (dificult to see in the pictures).

Doctors focused on getting you the best possible resuilts will most likely advise your to start  Finasteride 3x/week for 6 months prior to surgery in order to strenghten the hair on your donor area and stop your hairloss from progressing. You are young so you can count on reaching NW7 before you reach 40 if you don`t take Finasteride.

You should require either a mega session FUE or FUT with +6000 grafts or two FUE Sessions each with +3000 grafts to rebuild the frontal hairline and get a nice density in the midscalp and crown.

If you want to maximize your limited donor area I would advise you to have a FUT mega session with Dr. Muresanu at Hattingen Clinic.

A FUT surgery removes just a single strip leaving you still with donor area to have a FUE surgery in the future should your hairloss evolve.

If you insist on getting a FUE surgery then your best option is a mega session with Dr. Arika or Dr. Sethi at Eugenix and problably they will compensate your week donor area with +2000 beard grafts.

Wish you the best with your HT and hope to see your results thread in the near future!

2 minutes ago, digi23 said:

But I am also maybe special in that case than some other people, but I felt more safe when Dr Yaman was in the room. The techs were not the same, it was more a 9-5 job for them it felt like.

Thats why in my opinion it is worth more to pay Demirsoy 1,25 euro per graft to know he only do 1 per day, he does incisions, he does extractions, which in conclusion means that he will almost all the time be there with you.

For me I would pay extra for that, but now after the first procedure I know, its difficult I think for alot of people to understand this aspect before they are laying in the chair with two techs working on them in X hair mill in Turkey and they just want to run.

 

I totally get you because I had Dr. Pekiner sitting next to me for 3 whole days from 09am to 18pm and it’s a very different experience when you can speak with your Doctor whenever you want during the whole day and keep tabs on the progress of the surgery. 
For this reason I will never be able to have surgery without having the Doctor by my side controlling the whole surgery and solely focused on my results.

12 minutes ago, digi23 said:

Keser doing 500-700 grafts maximum per day, what a f...ing legend.

Dr. Keser has done great hairlines in the past but he also has several bad HT’s and the fact he doesn’t use a microscope prevents me from recommending him at HRN.
Also the fact that he doesn’t speak English makes him a old school recluse that is unable to attend (and understand) international hairloss conventions where hairloss Doctors share and develop their craft.

@JohnAC71 I saw several poor results from Yaman and ASMED was totally unethical to HRN members that were botched by their tech teams so to me that’s just a overpriced hairmill. 

There are Doctors that are much better than the best in Turkey (who in my opinion are HLC and Pekiner) and are charging the same price; Dr. Villa or Dr. Pinto or Dr. Bruno Ferreira. 
If I didn’t need a mega session of beard grafts I would  have chosen one them over any other option in Turkey. 

@Quanstan you hairloss is progressing and will continue evolving unless you start taking Finasteride every other day. Doctors focused of getting you the best possible outcome will probably ask you to be on Finasteride 6 months prior to surgery. 

You should be looking at upwards 4000 grafts to rebuild your frontal hairline along with the midscalp and part of the crown.

It’s great that you have become aware of the Turkish Hairmills and will hopefully stay clear of the world capital of botched HT that is Turkey. 

Why have you gone from 16k clinic in the US to considering a low cost Doctor in Turkey?

I highly advise to invest more in your surgery and book a Doctor doing the whole surgery with real patients posting consistent great results at HRN (and other foruns).

Dr. Ximena Villa, Dr. Bruno Pinto and Dr. Bruno Ferreira are in my opinion the best for the price they charge. 

Take a look at my table explaining the difference in prices / technique and Doctor involvement in the surgery:

Wish you all the best with surgery.

38 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

@Portugal25Im sure someone will arrive and try and stick up for Black Magic at some point 🤔

No doubt a schill from Blue Magic will register at HRN and post results from Dr. Couto claiming to be from Blue Magic 🤪😂

3 hours ago, Densehair said:

Hey John,

Have you heard of Dr. Mehmet Demircioglu? He does one patient per day, Revews are pretty good. Bicer does one person a day as well, how about Dr. Erkan Demirsoy, does he do one patient a day?

 

So you joined HRN 6 minutes ago and you already are promoting your  hairmill that is well known for terrible results and overharvesting the donor area.

@Melvin- Moderator has a low tolerance for schills. 

@Mir_a_Mir do you now understand what @Egywas warning you about these hairmills that post results from other Doctors on their own social media and then have their clinic’s schills come prey on potential patients that are looking for low cost options and are unware of how these hairmills operate. 

The title of this thread being a unknown low cost hairmill is basically sending out a beacon to hairmill schills to come in and plug their clinics.

3 hours ago, Mir_a_Mir said:

Hi @Portugal25 yeah I am dropping the whole Turkey plan, so disappointing. Lets see what Bicer and Dermisoy have to say, if not then I'll go to Dr. Arika at Eugenix. Although, I do have someone that I know who got the transplant at Eugenix in Delhi, guessing it was Arika and it didn't turn out that great at all. No problems but just not a great result. He had a massive area to be covered and not a good donor area. So keeping in view those factors, I am now more leaning towards at least finding out what Eugenix has to offer.

 

Thank you for your time, appreciate it.

Be aware that Eugenix has a low cost package cheaper than Dr. Demirsoy but in this option Dr. Arika is not involved with the surgery.
Probably your friend was also looking for a low cost option (at Eugenix) and got a low cost result. 

Your donor area is limited so chose your Doctor very carefully in order to avoid wasting grafts (maybe you will need for a repair surgery or another surgery 10 years from now if your hairloss continues to evolve). 

@JDEE0 already told you that he would only consider the Doctors listed on my list from Ximena Villa onwards and I have to say that I agree with him as these are the ones that are achieving mind blowing results and have the better technique.

Better to save money and be happy with your surgery rather than having to pay for a repair surgery with a very expensive Doctor that is skilled in repairing botched surgeries. 

@Mir_a_Mir I’m very happy to see you have evolved from almost playing russion roulette with a irreversible surgery at a hairmill or a subpar Turkish Doctor to now at least considering the low cost Doctors Bicer and Demirsoy.  
I advise you to save a bit more money and at least book Dr. Arika at Eugenix.

Wish you all the best with your HT.

@Rudiz31you are again comparing actual Doctors that are involved in the surgery with a hairmill franchise by the name of DHI and stating the name of the Doctor that can either be at the Glasgow or Greek franchise of DHI or at his own hairmill ChoiExpert checking on the several tech run surgeries that these haimills do on a daily basis. 

As a second option I would advise having two FUE sugeries with Dr. Christina at HDC.

This is a irreversible surgery that will affect your life forever so don´t focus on price but rather on who`s the Doctor that will be doing this surgery and does this Doctor have several real patients that were in the same situation as you and have posted amazing end results at HRN or other hairloss foruns. You will find that from your options only Eugenix ticks this box.

@Rudiz31 you are a NW6 and therefore require 6000 scalp grafts to reach a overall good density (from looking at your photos I would even say you need more than 6000 grafts). 

You should start finasteride 3x/week asap to stop your hairloss from progressing and enhance the density of your native hair. Only after 6 months of Finasteride should you move ahead with your surgery.

Eugenix is saying they can compensate the density by adding 2000 beard grafts to the 4000 scalp grafts but remember that the beard only produces single grafts and even though they are a bit thicker than scalp grafts they won`t produce the density you would get from just using scalp grafts. In my opinion you need all these 4000 scalp grafts to rebuild the frontal hairline (like Dr. Bicer told you) and the 2000 beard grafts can help to rebuild your crown.

Usually the Doctors will mix scalp with beard grafts to assure it looks natural and Eugenix must be planning on using some of the 4000 scalp grafts on the crown therefore these scalp grafts will not be placed solely on the frontal hairline like Dr. Bicer sugested.

However, I believe Eugenix technique is superior to Dr. Bicer meaning that 4000 scalps grafts with Dr. Arika at Eugenix should give you a better outcome than 4000 grafts with Dr. Bicer.

There`s only two Doctors in the world getting consistent good results with these FUE+BHT mega sessions and they both work at Eugenix: Dr. Arika and Dr. Sethi.

Eugenix is also one of the best in the world for BHT and this is something you need to get a better density.

It`s super strange to see you comparing a harmill like Cinik where techs without any medical background do surgery on dozens patients per day with actual Doctors...

Dr. Hakan was once kicked out of this forum for being unethical so that`s someone I wouldn`t recommend, much less for a mega session.

I highly doubt anyone will be advising you to have a FUE+BHT mega session with the other options you stated. 

My advise, save more money so you can afford Dr. Arika to perform your FUE+BHT mega session.

Wish you all the best with your surgery.

Turkey is the world capital of botched hair transplants with only a handful of good Doctors in the whole country versus hundreds of hairmills/clinics that have technicians without any medical background doing surgeries. 

if you are a Norwood 6 you should be looking at +4500 grafts to rebuild your hairline which means you need either two FUE surgeries or a FUE mega session at Eugenix or a FUT mega session at either Hattingen or H&W. Eugenix is the king of FUE mega sessions while Hattingen and H&W are the Kings of FUT mega sessions. 

If you want to get the most grafts out of your donor area (that is limited) then doing a FUT as your first surgery is the best option.

We need to see your photos to have a better understanding but this is usually the case for NW6. 

If you want to consider splitting the surgery in two with 4-6 months apart from each other then you could consider great Doctors like Dr. Rafael De Freitas or Dr. Bruno Ferreira. 

The cheapest option without disregarding having a good Doctor doing the surgery would be Eugenix (package with Dr. Arika involved in the surgery). 

Wish you all the best with your HT. 

@blackislbackjust updated the table with your information on each Doctor’s medical background.

6 minutes ago, ScottishGuy21 said:

Again, thank you to everyone who has replied. A wealth of information that i’ll consider before taking my next step. 

As someone has mentioned would it perhaps be feasible to approach this in two stages with highly skilled surgeons?

Stage one concentrating on frontal loss? Before going back for stage two as soon as economically possible?

 

@ScottishGuy21 if you talk with FUE Doctors that are solely focused on getting the best outcome then they will probably insist on doing your HT divided into two surgeries. 

Dr. Bruno Ferreira did this for my friend @PT#31and his brother @TGR46 he also suggested I did the same (should have listened to him).

If you consider FUT at Hattingen you could have it all done in just 1 mega session. 

Great that you are considering the advise from your HRN friends. 

5 minutes ago, Curious25 said:

Save up your pennies, and get in touch with Hattingen for an FUT procedure (If you don't mind the scar) - you seem to be a perfect candidate for them going off your pics. 

Totally agree with @Curious25 if you want the best possible outcome you should chose Dr. Muresanu at Hattingen because they are Kings at mega sessions along with H&W. 
Only if budget is a real concern should you consider Eugenix but please remember that is a irreversible surgery that will forever afect your life so my advice to you is to save up and go for the best!

@ScottishGuy21 I fully agree with @Melvin- Moderator because there’s no way 3500 grafts with rebuild your frontal hairline and midscalp. 
Turkey is the world capital of botched hair transplants and since you require a mega session with decent rates I would strongly advise you to look into Eugenix. You have a Eugenix package that has Dr. Arika involved with the surgery and it cost’s the same as Dr. Bicer. 
Wish you all the best!

@Ras why would you want to sacrifice the outcome of your surgery and pay more for a UK Doctor that isn’t skilled in African hair just to avoid a 5h Eurostar train to Brussels where you have the best Doctors in the world for African hair; Dr. Lupanzula or Dr. Bisanga…

Please consider getting on that 5h train instead of paying more to get a worst result and possibly have to get on that train anyway to get a repair surgery. 

Wish you all the best with your HT.

@baldy1997 I had my HT in Turkey and I can tell you that it’s the world capital for botched Hair Transplants.

There are hundreds of hairmills that have underpaid technicians with no medical background that could have been driving a taxi the month before doing your surgery.
Each one of these clinic does surgery on dozens of patients every day with zero to little Doctor involvement (although many of them claim otherwise).

It’s a like playing Russian roulette with the outcome of a surgery. 

Everyone is just trying to warn you against making what could be the biggest mistake of your life because this is a irreversible surgery and your donor area is limited so you will be wasting grafts that could be neeed for your subsequent repair surgery.

Please consider at the very least the low cost Doctors that have real patients posting good results  like Demirsoy at 1.25€/graft or Bicer at 1.50€/graft.

Wish you all the best with your surgery and hope you stay clear from clinics and start looking at Doctors that have real patients posting amazing results. 

14 hours ago, blackislback said:

As i'm new here at HRN, and used HRN much to educate myself, i mean learned much by HRN members like @Egy, @MachoVato, @Portugal25 ,  @Melvin- Moderator, and many other, if continue count i'm afraid will forget someone, so my apologize, if didn't added rest of members helped me much to understand this matter about HT, hairloss, levels of hairloss like norwood-hamilton, good clinics, top clinics, bad clinics, hair mill clinics, all those learned here, and by my adittional research allaround....

Thought about 1 thing last days, as i'm near to decide which clinic/doctor to choose, probably some of top 5 in Turkey, as mentioned ago main reason is my private life's situation, and can't wait 12-18x months for some clinics like dr. Lorenzo, which by opinion is one of best, dr. Bisanga too, and cause of some other complications, flights, but mostly cause of long waiting list, so thing what about i thought, is "who" are these "top" doctors which perform these not so simple HT surgeries, when i say "who" not mean, only their results, websites, prices, social networks, as you know that not all failed cases will be posted at this forum, as not all people who get HT by some of "top" doctors-clinics post at HRN, and some of cases we'll never know, mostly here post members who were active before their HT, trying get here experience, help, how to choose etc. , and in respect of HRN help, get back with results, so my question who are doctors is related to their backrounds, in meaning their education, experience in which area, like Plastics surgery, general surgery, Dermathology, or whatever....

As we know, good education is base for every success in some area, as it's base, as think not so ok surgery perform dr. Urologist, dr. Psychologist, dr. Diabetologist, etc etc. , as in some of hair mill clinics, doctor who is in front of those clinics has no any connection to surgery, but absolute different area, and he acts like a dr. XX who "perform" HT surgery, think no one patient with cardio problems, will  like to hear that his cardio surgery will perform some dr. Dermathologist, instead dr. Cardio-srugeon.

I say this, casue as more researched, more realized, that allaround are many doctors, who just participated in some courses of HT surgery, or worked with some famous HT surgeon, but in that case if no real education at least in any kind of surgery, as some of doctors from list - table i'll post here, for ex. worked in General surgery, in Thoracic surgery, etc. , such doctors can easy adapt to surgey as HT, as worked with much more complicated srugery areas, but if doctors only had some short courses, or non-formal educations by working in some clinics and learned by colleague, did you think it's enough?

In this case, we can say technician who work 5-10 years with famous doctor like dr. Lorenzo, Bisanga, almost have knowledge, like doctor who didn't specialize at least 3-4y in some hospital's surgery, of any surgery area... As docotr who is just graduated general Medicine, has no much experience to perform surgery, if really by formal education didn't practice surgery and got speciaization in some surgery area.

I say this, cause there is just regular doctor - medicine doctor, or in some countries called doctors of general practice, without any kind specialization oficial, as oficial specizalizations in Medicine, usual take 2-4 years depend of country, and it's oficial, to get status of specialist doctor of some area, like spec. Cardio-surgeon, spec. Plastics surgeon, and what's nearest to this HT area is specialization in Plastics surgery, or any other kind surgery experience think is good.

So, would like hear your opinion about this theme, do you think is enough doctor who only graduacted 4-5y faculty of Medicine, without specialzation in any surgery area, perform these HT surgeries, only based on learning in some private clinics, like first assist main doctor, and then by 2-3y, open himself/herself clinics and offer HT surgery services?

Maybe i'm more than other suspicios and careful, and watch things by more sides than need, but ok, it's forum, open discussion ,, and all we can say our opinions ...  I say , cause in area where i work, some job can't perform engineer other area, but only specialized engineer for specific project area. 

Here is about our lifes, heads, as engineer's mistakes can fix by money, payment of mistakes, but if doctors not well educated, mistakes sometimes can't be repaired and money will not help .

Used @Portugal25 nice table as reference for "top" doctors table, from his thread

all credits go to @Portugal25 for his great work, and sure if he agree about using his table as reference, if not, i'll delete my table with "top" doctors education table.

Would like hear your opinions on this theme, what you think is education very important, or you'll accept even it's doctor only doctor of Medicine - bacis education , 4-6 years 1st level university education  - doctor of general practice, and not have formal education in any area of surgery, but just non-formal education by practice in work of private clinics like assisting main doctor?

 

 

P.S.

These information about education found mostly by googling, from different sources like ISHRS, websites of doctors, etc. , and all are oficial informations. List is long, and when open photo, use bigger ZOOM to be able read education of all doctors.

 

 

@blackislbackI fully agree with you and thank you for this valuable information.

If you don’t mind I will add another column on my table to include these observations. 

Thanks

7 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

@Portugal25 Why are you not on finasteride + minoxidil?

Also, are you sure you only lost native hair and not some transplanted hair?

I’m not on Finasteride because I’m already a NW7 and I get nasty side effects. 
Not sure if I also lost some of Dr. Rahal’s transplanted hairs into the front along with all the native hair.

11 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

If you look at the before and after, the change is drastic. You say you don’t believe in BHT as much anymore, I feel the opposite after seeing this.

I guess I was just hoping for more density due to the fact I had such a mega session with beard grafts.

There isn’t many other threads with 1888 beard grafts in one surgery so it’s difficult to compare mega session beard grafts results. 

For my third and hopefully final surgery I’m struggling if I should again chose a Doctor doing mega sessions of BHT or a Doctor that isn’t versed in BHT but can do a lot using very few scalp graft. 

@Melvin- Moderatorfirsf off I gotta say your hair looks freakin awesome!

Secondly, you’re going to Eugenix who are Kings of BHT which is only suitable for the crown so if I were you I would try to get as much beard grafts as possible into the crown along with some scalp grafts to get it to the density you desire.
This way you could probably still save some more donor area to use down the line if needed. 

Granted I don’t believe in BHT as much I did in 2019 but maybe Eugenix can do wonders with beard grafts like no other Doctor can. 

Looking forward to seeing your HT thread.

Wish you all the best!

@Deppif you can afford Dr. Bruno Ferreira book him!
You can’t compare Dr. Bicer with Dr. Bruno because he does the whole surgery himself with a much more advanced technique while Bicer does pre-made slits with techs doing the implantation of the grafts. 

@TGR46 my friend!

Very happy to see you at HRN and congratulations because this truly looks like very clean and great work!

Your brother @PT#31 results after his two surgeries with Dr. BF are simply out of this world and I’m sure you will also be very happy after you second surgery, when is it?

Looking forward to seeing a update and now that Covid19 restrictions are gone I hope to see you in person very soon. 

Forte abraço!

2 hours ago, 5BetaReductase said:

Ok….you made it sound like it’s a second rate technique. “Two low cost doctors that are doing the older technique.”

 

keep in mind h&w are using the “older technique” as well.

 

I had the “newer” technique done by Lorenzo who is co-developer of the lion implanter and had sub par growth. It’s all about skill, not the tools. I would hate to have newbies coming on board looking for advice and the tools of the doctor become a deal breaker for them.

@5BetaReductaseI’m sad to hear you had subpar growth at Dr. Lorenzo.
Do you have a thread with your results?

Dr. Lorenzo is considered one of the best in the world and a authority on patients with DUPA so it’s rare to see a unhappy patient from his clinic. 

It would be great if you could share a thread with your experience.

Thanks.