Portugal25

@Luismendes535 the call you had was exactly what to be expected from a hairmill clinic. 

They mentioned another celebrity name to get you hooked and claimed you would get the same nurses that did surgery on that celebrity when in fact there’s no way for you to confirm this information because not even that celebrity knows who were the nurses that did his surgery.

I told you to check another celebrity endorsing them Rui Unas and you can see on his Instagram that he has doubles on his hairline. They even managed to botch a HT done on celebrity that is endorsing them and thus should be getting the best HT they can perform:
https://instagram.com/o_unas?utm_medium=copy_link

Saying Finasteride is only 20% effective is simply ridiculous and this person claiming to be a Doctor has either downgraded himself to a hairmill salesman or you were actually speaking with trained salesman from their call center. 

I highly advise you to book a consultation with Dr. Bruno Ferreira and Dr. Bruno Pinto so you can understand what it’s like to speak with a actual Doctor that cares only about his patients outcome. You will find they will focus more on what’s best for you and not how fast they can get you their in their operating room. 

Keep strong and just say NO when you get the next call maybe this time it will be from the President of the clinic offering another discount if you pay now. 

@Luismendes535as we discussed over the phone, you should use Finasteride every other day for 6 months before having a HT because it will stop your hairloss and increase the density of your hair. It`s likely that in 6 months you might find that a HT isn`t necessary.

If in 6 months you still want to rebuild your hairline then besides the two obvious choices in Portugal you should also consider Dr. Ximena Villa that used to work with Dr. Lorenzo before Dr. Bruno Ferreira joined his clinic. I do believe she still charges 2.5€/graft. 

Dr. Juan Couto in Madrid and Dr. Rafael De Freitas in Valencia are considered the best in Spain but be prepared for a 2 year wait list.

Stay firm saying NO to the call center from the hairmill as I`m sure they will be calling you 6x per day pushing you to book the surgery and giving you discount after discount to get you seated into one of the 18 surgery chairs that must be occupied every day.

Best of luck my friend!

@Melvin- Moderatorand other HRN friends, my apologies for my long absence from HRN but I saw this thread from a fellow Portuguese and just had to take the time to contribute.

@Luismendes535you have been given very good advice!

Your first mistake was selecting a Clinic rather than selecting a Doctor with real proven results from real patients here at HRN or other hairloss foruns.

I can understand you like Cristinano Ronaldo but surely you wouldn`t do a hearth transplant surgery at a clinic just because it`s endorssed by Ronaldo?!? Surely you would problably also want to search for a SURGEON that would actually be doing your surgery and one that has several references (successful patients that had successful surgeries). 

In Portugal there are only 2 top Doctors; Dr. Bruno Ferreira (one of the best in the world) and Dr. Bruno Pinto. 

The rest are clinics that hire underpaid nurses to do your hair transplants with zero to little involvement from a skilled Doctor thus resulting in a much higher transection rate (worst results).

These hairmills that are doing upwards of 18 hair transplants per day will have a more skilled Nurse or Doctor do the slits/holes and then the others Nurses or Technicians (that may have no medical background) will use implantor pens to implant the graft into the pre-made slits. Pre-made slits will require the slit to be wider because the slit/hole will immediately start to close once opened and the wider the hole the worst the recovery and results. Implantor Pens are used when skilled Doctors want to load each one with a graft and be able to punch the slit and implant the graft at the same time thus reducing the time the slit/hole stays open (quicker recovery time and lower transection rate). Hairmills with underpaid Nurses or Techs will not be able to reap the benefits from this technique because the Nurses or Techs are not skilled enought to implant grafts without having the pre-made slits that show them where they need to implant the grafts. So basically your scalp will be punched twice to implant each graft instead of just once when you chose a skilled a Doctor. 

A skilled surgeon will have a transection rate of about 5% while the transection rate of the least skilled is between 20 or 75%.

Our donor area is limited (a lot of people don`t have more than 4000 grafts of total donor area) so you will be wasting 2000 precious grafts by doing this surgery at a hairmill rather then going to  a skilled surgeon like Dr. Ferreira that could probably rebuild your hairline with half that amount due to having a highly skilled technique and a lower transection rate.

My advice, cancel the hairmill start taking finasteride 3x/week plus Minoxidil spray every night, do this for at least 6 months before having a HT with one of the two best Doctors in Portugal. After 6 months you might realize that you don`t actually need a HT.

Remember that a hair transplant is not like buying a car because you can`t return it or sell it when you get bored! You will live with the results of this surgery for the rest of your life.

Hope you make the right decision!

Kesser doesn’t use a microscope during surgery so I would rule him out.

He also doesn’t speak any English which makes him a recluse of the international ht Doctors world/conferences.

Bisanga is obviously more experienced than HLC or Pekiner but also more expensive.

At HLC price point I highly advise Dr. Bruno Ferreira that charges the same price with a more skilled technique (also Doctor only surgery).

8 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I believe there are some examples here, I may be mistaken but I thought @Portugal25 did this, there are a few others. If you want to maximize your grafts go FUT first.

I didn’t hide the scar when I did FUE+BHT because the FUT scar is unnoticeable with a number 2 razor haircut so I didn’t want to waste precious donor area on hidding the scar. 
My friend Ricardo also went to Pekiner and he did SMP to hide his scar a few months prior to the surgery. 

@Rossybop that’s just another Turkish hairmill. 
Turkey is the world capital of botched hair transplants because people are lured by the low cost price and amazing (fake or cherry picked) videos on social media or the clinic website.

Never ever have a surgery with a Doctor that doesn’t have several real patients showing their results over the course of several months (patients that post before and after pictures are either fake or clinic representatives) 

In Turkey there are only two safe options: HLC and Dr. Kaan Pekiner. 

@Hamit38 follow Dr. Pekiner advise and start taking Finasterid because it will stop your hairloss and strengthen your donor area.

Best of luck with your surgery.

@Hamit38 you are comparing Asmed which is a high price hairmill where techs do surgery on up to 8 patients per day with a highly skilled doctor only surgery by one of the best Doctors in Turkey. Asmed was kicked out of HRN for unethical behavior towards patients that are HRN members.

As a patient of Dr. Pekiner i have to say I find this comparison ridiculous because I had Dr. Pekiner sitting next to me for 3 days doing my whole surgery using stick&place (a highly skilled and demanding technique that’s also used by Dr, Konior in the US) which something you don’t get at harmills like Asmed or Cinik.

@BLE123 is correct in warning you that Pekiner might refuse doing your surgery if your donor area has miniaturized hairs but it doesn’t seem like it does.

Another great option in Turkey is HLC but other than HLC or Pekiner there’s no other I would go to in Turkey. 

Also advise you to check out Dr. Bruno Ferreira (same price as HLC with a more skilled technique). 

On 12/9/2020 at 5:30 PM, smurf said:

i would use american express. 

 

that way if they don't render services, you can call amex and issue out a chargeback

Revolut is much better because there are zero taxes with this card plus the exchange rate favors euro/usd/gbp. 
I never travel without Revolut! 
You can even make cash withdrawals without taxes (limited amount per week).

On 12/8/2020 at 11:24 AM, jc80220 said:

I mentioned it to my brother, who's a police officer, and now my heads full of comments about being robbed by the clinic and left for dead 😄

I do believe this is the standard in Turkey.
I went to a top Doctor in Turkey and only was allowed to wire the booking deposit the rest was paid in cash euros on the first day of the surgery.
I traveled with 7000€ in cash and was quite scared of carrying around that much money but I had the clinic driver waiting for me at the airport and the Hotel was across the street from the clinic. 

46 minutes ago, kennethwilliams said:

It is perfect clinic with service quality, price and standards. They are not operating bulk of Arabs just for money. They are quality oriented. I recommend to have a check. I've had my hair transplant done with them it's been almost 2 years and I am more than  satisfied. You can have a look at their Instagram for excellent results. We've been there with 4 friends of me and they also provided group discount bro.  Instagram : @mcanhealth and @mcanhairtransplant (I think this second one is just like a hair transplant gallery )

@Melvin-Moderatorthis new member has clearly joined HRN with sole purpose of promoting this Turkish Harmill and critize any other HRN member that has given the very sound advice to stay away. 

I do agree with @UnbaldEaglethat a bann should be in order as this seems to be a Turkish rep claiming to be a UK national but using google translator to troll and promote his hairmill.

10 minutes ago, kennethwilliams said:

never heard lol 

Perhaps you live out of space or you are just jealous poor trichologist of a black market clinic.

I am really surprised how you can tell capital of botched surgery? It is totally out of mind comment OMG.

I am living in Birmingham and almost all bald friends of me went into surgeries with a good clinic in Turkey. The Turkish clinics are doing the best work with very cheap price with our currency. 

I have been a member of HRN for the past 12 years and you joined 11 minutes ago and proceed to acuse a senior member of working for a black market clinic whilst promoting a Turkish hairmill using google translator proficiency of English when you claim to live in the UK. 

@Melvin-Moderator will surely agree that this very odd behavior from a newly joined member. 

I had two hair transplants using different techniques, FUT with Dr,. Rahal and FUE+BHT with Dr. Pekiner. 
So I do consider myself to have something to contribute at HRN and I’m honest when commenting the positives and negatives of all Doctors including the ones I selected for my own surgeries.

Hope you refrain from this type of behavior in future posts and positively contribute with useful information.

Congratulations on taking the leap towards a full head of hair.

Your recipient area at 9 days is simply amazing and the hairline design is perfect with a very natural look.

The donor looks very clean like all other Dr. BF patients.

Keep posting pictures so we can follow your progress.

Wish you all the best!

2 minutes ago, InTheSix said:

I am sure Rahal/H&W are good, but dont believe they are big on BHT. So I am not considering them.Dr Jones did share a photo (which seem acceptable) but he didnt sound too big on BHT. 

If you are dead set on a FUE mega session with BHT you should book Eugenix. They are by far the clinic with the highest count of successful mega sessions. 

55 minutes ago, JohnBob said:

Lol you portugueses and españoles are very proud people so I understand this can be a sensitive topic for you. 

But spanish and portuguese are indeed very similar languages, to the point that if your first language is portuguese you can understand and easily communicate with a spanish people.  You definitely can't do that with say italian and german unless you have some proficiency with both languages. 

Their ethnicities and cultures are not that different either. Cristiano Ronaldo could easily pass for a Spanish dude. 

That being said, don't confuse the two because they are different people with different languages and if you do that they'll get mad. 

(And please don't be mad at me, I'm 25% Portuguese and 25% Spanish, and portuguese is my first language.)

 

John it’s not a Portuguese thing for a small country to be proficient in other languages (Portugal, Scandinavian countries, etc) while bigger countries focus just on their own language and even dub movies into their own language (Italy, Spain, Brasil, France,etc). Feel sorry for these people that never heard the real voice of movie icons like Eddy Murphy or Robin Williams. 

Here in Portugal we all grow up listening to original movies, tv and English or Spanish music and that’s why we are more prepared to understand foreign languages.

This is why all Portuguese can speak Spanish (or English) and no Spanish can speak Portuguese (even English is challenge for them).

Nothing to do with saying a latin language like Spanish similar to another latin language like Portuguese because actually all latin languages have similarities and any Portuguese can understand several words and full sentences of any latin language even if we don’t speak them while bigger countries are content with only understanding Eddie Murphy if he’s dubbed in their own language.

2 minutes ago, mustang said:

Gosh

Being half Spaniard and living in Spain I must say I have never read are more ignorant and stupid post this year.

It's frightening how stupid people are. It really is.

This troll was kicked out and came back again with different names but it was so easy to identify his trademark arrogant ignorance that he managed to get kicked out again. 

1 minute ago, InTheSix said:

Personally I have refrained from asking cost from most clinics yet, dont want that to skew my final decision.. Of course, $$ is always a consideration, and I will cross that river when I get there... but I would imagine 8000 from H&W can not be cheap (aka super expensive)

Here you go.

I know the physical and emotional strain a HT surgery takes and if I had the chance to go from NW6 to a full head of hair in one surgery with masters like H&W, Dr. Muresanu or Dr.Sethi, I wouldn’t hesitate because they have a great track record on doing mega sessions. 

Eugenix, HLC and Pekiner are the best at combined FUE+BHT.

9 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I will ask you this, does hair length matter to you? If the answer is no, definitely go FUT first. FUE procedures can still be done. FUT and FUE are not mutually exclusive. You will by far get more hair doing FUT first. My choice for mega sessions would be Hasson and Wong. Afterward, you can still get FUE+BHT. 
 

@SLA I fully agree with @Melvin-Moderator and urge you to try to get a 8000 graft surgery with Hasson&Wong thus saving your FUE & BHT donor area for any future intervention.

If you are dead set on FUE then go for a 8000 grafts FUE+BHT megas session at Eugenix but that might depleat your donor and then - no more FUE or FUT for you! 

5 hours ago, InTheSix said:

 

Hi Everyone.

This is my very first post on the forum. Like many, I have been quietly reading, learning and greatly benefiting from this great collaboration of opinion, ideas and suggestions. I have been contemplating getting an HT for a few years on and off, but only recently have begun to seriously contemplate going ahead with it. Below is quick background of my hairloss and where I stand currently.(Hoping I can get suggestions from the community here to help select a good Doc)

 

Background:

-       I am currently 39 years old.

-       I first started noticing some thinning in my crown when I was 24 years old. Although I still had a ton of hair back then (I remember my hair were so thick and dense, that I once got turned away from a barber saying that I should go to a women’s salon to get a hair cut) I first met a doctor in Toronto (Cam Simmons) when I was about 28 years old. At that time, he told me I was an excellent candidate for an HT and provided some options. I decided to not go ahead with an HT and only started using Minox

-       Minox grew hair for me in the first year and then it just didnt do anything (I realize that not growing hair, doesnt mean it not working, as it may be stopping further loss). I continued to use Minox for about 4 to 5 years, and then simply stopped. I did not and have not taking any other medication beyond Minox (although in hindsight, and after reading comments here, I feel I should have given Finas a try) But alas, hindsight is 20/20

-       When I was 37, I met with an Hasson and Wong consultant in Toronto, who simply said that I was a good candidate for HT and asked when I would like to arrange a surgery. Frankly, I had not done much research at that time and still wasnt ready for an HT, so never followed up.

-       Fast forward to now, I have an extensive bald area and would be a NW 6/7 (pretty much no hair on top). I would say that my balding has been fairly stabilized over the last 2 or 3 years (no meds). Even though there isnt a huge amount to lose anymore, I know it can get worse over time.

-       Given that I have been WFH since Covid started, it has given me an extra incentive to get an HT done now, as I rather recuperate at home, then going into an office (I work in a corporate environment, and unlike some of the many brave folks here, would rather not make my HT story too obvious at work)

-       To this effect, over the last 6 to 8 weeks, I have narrowed down a selection of doctors and reach out for evaluation. Below I will share what I have heard from each:

 

Expectation:

I realize I have an extensive case of hair loss, hence I am open to have realistic expectation (assuming that I can even be considered a candidate for HT). In terms of expectation, below is what I expect, starting from the :”very least” to the “very most”:

-       Not be completely bald

-       If I can get more, I would like to aim for a hairline and midscalp that can frame the face somwhat. I am ok to aim for a mature hairline, and I am fine with the density can not be too high

-       If I can get more, next it will be good to have some minimum coverage in the crown, which can allow me to use fibers

-       If I can get more, it would be nice to have a more denser crown (I know this is now absolute wishful thinking)

-       I also realized that I will almost certainly rely on BHT, which I am open to

I have seen some phenomenal NW 6/7 transformations here ( @Zoomster,  @Portugal25, etc) and I totally realize those are exception to the norm, as so many other factors are involved (doner, hair quality, head size, etc).. Hence I dont expect phenomenal transformation (how great would that be) but willing to have realistic expectations:

 

Below are the Dr/Clinics I have approached:

-       HLC: (I am really inclined to go with them).. they said they can perform an HT for me. They can give me a new hairline that will cover the face and use body and scalp hair for the rest of the head for light coverage. The communication is all through consultants and not directly with a doctor. I spoke over phone with their consultant Engin, and he basically said that we can aim to do 2 days of surgery with about 2000 graft each day. The first HT will aim to do hairline and midscalp and then I can come back after 6/12 months, for a 2^nd procedure for the crown area. I asked if he can send pictures of the proposed plan using one of my photos, but he said they dont do this. He also said that my ‘final’ plan will only truly be confirmed when I meet the doctors in person. I asked for a december 2020 date, but currently they are booking Feb 2021

-       Eugenix: I am really impressed from what I see from this clinic and what I read on the forum. I am waiting for an assessment from them. However, unfortunately, due to travel reason, I will almost certainly not be able to travel to India. But again, their results seem very impressive, and I feel for a high NW, they might be one of the best

-       Dr Bruno Ferreira: As some of you have pointed out here, his was the most detailed and personal assessment (very impressive).  Below is what he suggested:

1. Start medication: ( He thinks I am too advanced to expect too much improvement. Not taking it does lower his expectations in terms of long term results, but not much. The goal is to get stabilization and some improvement in the lateral humps if possible. He really doesn't expect it impacting beard hair)
2. First surgery: 2500+ grafts (Front and temporal peaks)
3. Donor area recovery: 5 months
4. Second surgery: 2500+ grafts (midscalp)
5. Evaluate possibility of more surgery
6. He thinks my best doner is ocipital

-       Dr Konior/Nadimi: I got a reply from Nadimi. She said that my donor density seems average, but my hair quality looks good. She recommended 2 procedures. In the 1^st procedure “2000 grafts to produce a good frontal/midscalp restoration although a session of 2500 grafts would be preferred for achieving good density (she said we may use more grafts, but that can only be confirmed in person). Then if my donor still allows, I can come back for a 2^nd procedure to do the crown. She too thinks Finas can have only minimum improvment, not a lot. She is currently booking surgery into Spring 2021. I didnt ask for Dr Konior availability

-       Dr Bisanga: Clearly the most hesitant of all evaluations. At first, they would not give an assessment and said I have to do an in person. I almost did meet the doctor in New Jersey, but his schedule didnt allow. Then he finally agreed to do a virtual session. In the session he said he can probably do hairline and midscalp and probably leave the crown empty (but depends on donor after the 1^st procedure)

-       Dr Robert Jones (Toronto): Recommended a 3000 graft FUE. And then a future surgery if possible. He said he estimates, I might have around 6000 graft in total. Although he said he has performed BHT, I didnt feel like he was too big on it, and his recommendation above does not include BHT. Some of the photos he shared as possible outcome, were quite acceptable.

 Already ruled out:

-       Dr Pekiner: I was tempted to reach out to this Dr also, but after reading about some aborted HT, I decided not to. (No offence to any of his admirers, just a personal opinion)

-       Asmed: (I reached out to them during the start of my search, but at this point, I have ruled them out irrespective of their recommendation, which I am sharing for context) They provided a rough drawing, which suggested covering the hairline and midscalp with approx 3500-4000 graft. They said they dont do BHT.

-       Dr Keser: Said he cant cover the entire head, but suggested I reach out to BHT clinics as he feels they can help me (I appreciated the honesty and suggestion)

 

Question for everyone:

-       I am certain I will have to leverage BHT. Hence I am looking for a Dr/Clinic that is really good with BHT. Has my list above accommodated all good options for BHT, or am I missing someone ?

-       What is your overall suggestion of which Dr/Clinic I should focus on ?

-       I am leaning towards the following plan of action (I am only considering FUE😞 1^stHT (aim for hairline and midscalp), 2^ndHT (maybe after 1 to 2 years) aim for some improvement to crown (if possible).... if I have anything left in the donor bank, I can re-evaluate in 4 to 5 years (hopefully they are cloning hair then).. What do you think of this plan of action ?

 

Thank you all in advance.

I would forget about FUE+BHT and book a mega session FUT with either H&W of Hattingen Clinic Dr. Muresanu. You will need 8000 grafts and both these clinics can handle 8000 grafts in just one surgery if you chose FUT.

You will have more remaining donor area available for future FUE surgeries if you start by depleating your FUT donor area like I did.

45 minutes ago, Craig2412 said:

Totally false and untrue, I see Dr Erdogan on numerous occasions when I visited the clinic. Not only for consultations, hairline drawings, incisions, and other stages of surgery but even 06:45am in the morning he had breakfast with the patients and I got to ask him a few questions. Even in the evenings he was in the patient area, when there was entertainment provided for the patients. 

Great you were lucky enough to see him but my post is backed by several real patients that didn’t see Erdogan and were botched by techs.

Your post say you saw him involved in other surgeries but it isn’t clear on the involvement Dr. Erdogan had with your surgery.

Dr. Erdogan did your whole surgery? Only asking because I can copy paste threads from several real patients claiming that this doesn’t happen and that they indeed saw several patients having surgery on the same day (not by Erdogan). 

1 hour ago, familia said:

@Portugal25you went to dr Pekiner but you are also recommending to go to HLC? 
Is HLC really stands out than Pekiner?

Pekiner worked at HLC for several years.

I recommend HLC as safet bet because Pekiner doesn’t take risks and may abort a surgery if he finds miniaturized hairs while HLC has several Doctors and they nevee back down from a challenge. 

4 minutes ago, Ali4981 said:

This is exactly my problem. I’m getting conflicting information all around. So far everyone has praised Dr.Arshad and I’ve heard really good things about Dr. Erdogan but @Portugal25you’ve literally crossed them out lol.

I am in talks with Dr.pekiner’s patient advisor Alex, who has requested some more information from me. 

I’m just really struggling to pick a Dr and it’s stressing me out.

@Ali4981 I was harsh crossing out Dr. Arshad but it truly annoys me when people working in this field show utter negligence like recommending a hairmill just because the Doctor that runs the hairmill was once renowned Doctor. 

Like Melvin told you Dr. Arshad has several real patients results posted at HRN so you should analyze them and see if you like his work. If you do and his price is on par with his skill then book him!

You have my chart that compares technique/patients per day/ doctor involvement and price. Use it to reach your own conclusions and don’t listen to patient reps the only thing that matters are Real Patients Results!!

Just now, Melvin-Moderator said:

I don’t think that’s fair, several surgeons have been trained and have a good relationship with Erdogan, he trained technicians at Hasson and Wong, he also works closely with Dr. Lorenzo, whom I’m sure would recommend patients to him. That isn’t a reason to strike anyone off of a list. Truthfully, he’s a good surgeon, unfortunately, the number of patients he does a day no longer meets our standards. That said, he was and is still an industry leader in FUE technique. 

True but nowadays most of his patients don’t get to see him when they have surgery at Asmed. 
Cinik was also once a reputed Doctor but nowadays he’s not present at the clinic because he has the technicians doing surgery on up to 10 patients per day.
This approach allowed Cinik to afford advertising in the English Soccer Premier League (one of the most expensive ad space in Europe). 

Sorry but I firmly believe that people that make a living working in this field should be aware that these Doctors are actually hairmills.