Portugal25

I booked a consultation with Dr. Ferreira on the 11th of November at 16.30h.

I will be driving 3 hours from Lisbon and I just need Dr. BF note to be allowed to make this trip.

We have 120 councils on lockdown so people living in these "high risk" councils can only leave their respective council if they have one of many justifications like a Doctor note, work note, movie tickets, etc. 

The distance between councils is nothing which is why a movie ticket is enough to cross councils.

in these 120 high risk councils restaurants close at 22.30h (with 6 people max at each table) and shopping centers close at 22h. 

The police are making control checks in several council borders so trips across councils can be a pain. 

It´s not really a Lockdown 2.0 because the impact is very mild as we can all go about our daily lives as the goverment is mostly asking for common sense to reduce new cases.

3 hours ago, Zen1987 said:

Wow, comprehensive table. Just to check, Dr. Arika harvest from beard any grafts if needed / if suitable?

In my opinion, Eugenix, HLC and Pekiner are the best in the world for BHT so yes Dr. Arika does use BHT if you need it to add density.

Actually in your case considering you are a NW7 I highly advise you to chose  FUT with Dr. Muresanu at Hattingen Clinic because they are the Kings of FUT megasessions (along with H&W) there`s a guy on HRN that had over 8000 grats with Dr. Muresanu in just 1 surgery which is pretty much the amount you will also be requiring.

The other option would be Eugenix because they are the best in the world for FUE mega sessions to restore the hairline on high norwoods but FUE would give as much yield in one session as FUT.

25 minutes ago, Zen1987 said:

Thanks for the info..there must be some good ones in Turkey??

 

I can't seem to find the Eugenix package you mention on their site?

There’s only 1 safe option in Turkey and that’s HLC at 2.5€/graft.

Pekiner is great but aborts surgeries if he finds miniaturized hairs.

Kesser has some amazing hairlines but does surgeries without using a microscope and is a recluse of the international HT world.

Never consider results found on social media or clinic website the only results that count are the ones posted by real patients over the course of several months of growth after their HT. The rest is fake advertising or cherry picked results. 

I made a list comparing techniques/ Doctor involvement during surgery and price. I included the best Doctors in the field but there still a few elite US Docs missing and Dr. Rahal. Will keep updating this list. 

5 hours ago, Zen1987 said:

The 3 I have narrower to are 

 

1) Dr Özlem Biçer Clinic 

2) Dr Hakan Dogonay (AHD clinic)

3) Dr Ahmed Altan (Aestepool clinic)

 

Where is equinox, I thought that is in India?

Dr Hakan Dogonay was kicked out of HRN and besides several botched results some patients reported he was real-using needles.

Turkey is the world capital of botched hair transplants so you are setting yourself up for failure.

if you want cheap book Eugenix Compreensive&Exclusive package at 1.39€/graft. 

Hello Everyone,

Sorry for not posting last month but I saw no improvement so decided to skip a month.

I just hit the 10 month mark and it does seem like there’s still some new growth but I still have low density in some areas that need to be improved in the next month or I will require a new HT.

Looking forward to your comments.

Just now, Coady said:

@Portugal25 Do you ever regret not going on finasteride after your first procedure? 

l

Ofcourse I do! if I had kept taking  Finasteride I would probably still have a full head of hair and wouldn’t need this second HT.

It`s true that Stick&Place is more demanding because the Doctor has to make the punch and immediatly implant the graft he does this one graft at a time therefore limiting the maximum amount of grafts per day to around 1000 for Doctors doing manual extraction up to 2000 for Doctors doing motorized extractation.

It`s because of the difficulty to select which graft has to go where (as you cannot pre-select them) and the bigger challenge to create a complete area evenly that I never reccomend chosing this technique with a Doctor that isn`t doing the whole surgery on just 1 patient per pay. 

Like @Gasthoererexplained:

+ Less out of body time of the grafts --> Better survival.

+ Smaller slits possible --> Higher theoretical density.

The best hairlines I have seen with this higher density @Gasthoererrefers to above was from Doctors doing stick&place (or DHI) like Konior, Nadimi, HLC, Pekiner and even Kesser that doesn`t use a microscope during surgery (he does also have some subpar hairlines with multis but that’s to be expected from a Doc not using a microscope). 

DHI is a similar technique but less taxing on the Doctor because the implantation isn`t done manualy with forceps but rather with a implantor pen charged with the graft that punches and implants the graft at the same time thus making this process much faster and simpler.

I do believe most of the Stick&Place Doctors will be evolving to DHI in the near future as it provides similar results and allows for more grafts to be implanted in 1 day with less physical strain on the Doctor.

In my humble opinion, Doctors doing more than 1 patient per day is only a option if the technique is FUT or FUE with pre-made sits supported by a great tech team (H&W, Feriduni, Muresanu, Bisanga, etc).

Ofcourse this is just my personal opinion.

On 10/26/2020 at 12:54 PM, Bill-Dr-Rahal said:

There are a number of excellent FUE Clinics you can consider.  While I don’t recommend choosing a clinic strictly based on price or location, there are a number of outstanding surgeons recommended by this community that are on the less expensive side.  In turkey, for example, surgery disturbingly cheaper but be careful, there are a number of less than reputable clinics there which is why I recommend sticking to those recommended by this community if you are going to travel there

best wishes, 

Bill

Bill could you please inform the prices Dr. Rahal charges, tecnique, nº patients per day and level of Doctor/tech involment in the surgery?

Thank you

55 minutes ago, miko said:

He used to have website, but now it is under construction. His has the longest waiting list from all HT surgeons. But one thing is true. It is almost impossible to find some result of Couto´s work posted by patient... I am very curious why...

I have found this:

http://hairwin.blogspot.com/2014/10/dr-juan-couto-i-cirujano-cubano.html

It’s actually pretty easy you just need to go to the Spanish forum. 
The link below is a guy that was botched in Turkey and a repair job with Couto.

https://foro.recuperarelpelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=84771&start=90

42 minutes ago, JayLDD said:

HnW are affordable for the average American working in an area that requires a college degree. Particularly when looking at their FUT cost along with overall consistency and level of results they undeniably look like one of the best value clinics globally. 

In my opinion unless you're firmly part of the "1%" Konior should be avoided at those prices. That speaks nothing of his results which are clearly among the best globally, but chances are the money would be better spent elsewhere at those levels. He's raised prices to match his reputation and patient interest but at the $10+ a graft mark he's taking the piss when it comes to providing any sort of consideration to value. Good on him if he still provides great results but no one should pay those prices unless they can actually afford it. Most people are better off choosing a surgeon with prices where they have no issues going to for further procedures subsequent to more hairloss or desire a touchup.

The over emphasis on whether or not a company uses techs for extractions or implantations on this entire thread by the way is totally overstated. Certain clinics get attacked for it while others are consistently praised and it never gets brought up. Hasson/Wong use techs for extractions and I've virtually never seen it criticised, the consistent longer term results matter massively more than whether or not the doctor is doing all parts of the procedure. Same situation with Lorenzo or Dr. Villa. I don't need to pay a 3 star Michelin chef to kill and butcher a cow for me if its going to 10x the cost of a steak. 

I also saw a representative for Dr. Bhatti and I think also Dr. Maras recently on this forum attacking use of techs in FUE despite the fact that those two surgeons both utilize techs in extractions or implantations or both. It just comes across like vapid virtue signalling or people trying to convince themselves they made a good decision in paying more than the average person can afford for results they could have got with a cheaper surgeon that uses techs regardless.

The Criticisms of Keser and Freitas here seem unfounded. A few poor cases or an individual complaining about 1 or 2 multi-grafts in their hairline is a terrible way to judge overall results. In one instance on another forum a patient had a virtually flawless hairline, incredible density and yield with maybe 2-3 multis in the entire hairline (for which even I guarantee experienced members here would not notice in person) and after complaining they were accepted for free repair work by Keser. In regards to Freitas, there are significant numbers of consistent patient posted and clinic posted cases and he's undeniably doing some of the best FUE work in the world. Whether or not he started working at a cheap hairmill says absolutely nothing about his current standards which are clearly very high no matter who you compare him. Using the "he uses techs" argument is thoughtless and the "no patient posted cases"  just means you need to get better at using Google searches.

@JayLDD H&W are pretty much the most famous hair transplant clinic in the world and any technician/nurse working in this field would kill to be able to work at H&W so you can be certain they will have the best techs in the field maybe even better than many HT Doctors. So obviously a surgery at H&W with techs involved will continue to provide great results especially if it`s FUT where the tech team is crucial to get a good result.

The issue with Dr. Kesser isn`t simply a few real patients with poorly made hairlines but also the fact that in 2020 he`s still not using a microscope during surgery and he`s a recluse of the HT world because he doesn`t speak any English (I have several Doctors in my immediate family and friends and they all say "In 2020 a MD that doesn`t speak English is simply unacceptable".). The Doctors I know all attend International Conferences and Lectures in their respective fields which also happens for HT so how can a Doctor with zero English be able to learn from his peers, network and develop his craft...

I had a Doctor perform my whole and this is now my preference but ofcouse there are others Docs doing pre-made slits with technicians implating or extractings that also have great results so I`m not bashing Docs that use techs, simply saying it´s not my preference.

I fully agree that it doesn`t matter where Dr. De Freitas began working in this field what matters if the consistent amazing results he is getting. If he did only 1 patient per day he would be on my TOP 5 FUE Docs along with Couto.

10 hours ago, miko said:

To Dr. Couto and Fuexpert clinic: From my converstaion with clinic on Instagram:

1. Dr. Couto does 1, or 2 patients per day deppending on the difficulty

2. Just the doctor extracts and implants follicules

 

 

I recently had a “Doctor Only Surgery” and can safely say It’s not possible for one Doctor  to have 2 patients in one day and do the whole procedure for both. 
The only way for Couto to do the whole surgery of 2 patients on 1 day is if it’s 1 surgery in the morning and another in the afternoon. 

It might very well be the case with Couto. He might only do 2 surgeries in one day if it’s two small cases.

The answer I got on the phone was simply that he may do up to 2 surgeries in one day. 

On 10/25/2020 at 8:20 PM, servonoparecchicapelli said:

Unfortunately is the only solution between price and quality: for 2000 grafts Rahal 9000$ VS Koray 3800-4600€.

Are you seriously comparing a hairmill like ASMED that was kicked out of HRN for unethical behavior towards several of their botched patients with a world renowned surgeon like Rahal????

ASMED charges more than Dr. Bruno Ferreira, Dr. Bruno Pinto and Dr. Ximena Villa that are in whole other league.

You should do a lot more research and by research I mean look at real patients results at HRN and the Spanish forums to better understand the difference with a highly skilled technique versus tech run surgeries at Asmed and other Turkish hairmils.

You can check my list below with a comparison between top Doctors

Just now, PizzaWolf said:

@Portugal25

In Spain and Turkey is there a tax in addition to the posted cost, like with Belgium? Thanks.

Most Doctors in Turkey ask you to pay a deposit and the rest in cash after surgery.

We have tax in Portugal but prices are always including tax. 

@Hairless Ozzie you should know that Turkey is the world capital of botched hair transplants and in this country there’s only 1 sure bet which HLC Ankara at 2.5€/graft.
There are hundreds of all inclusive hairmills where technicians do your surgery and cheap Doctors like Yaman that has several botched results posted by real patients. 

If you want cheap your best bet is the Comprehensive&Exclusive package at Eugenix for 1.3€/graft but I urge to save a bit more more money and chose a Doctor with dozens of real patients posting amazing results that does the whole surgery with either stick&place or DHI.

Check my list with the some of the best HT surgeons. 

5 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

So it could be €3.00? I think I'm still confused.

4.00€ plus tax

1 minute ago, PizzaWolf said:

So is that €3.00 per graft before tax?

No it’s plus tax but it seems that it’s easy to get around that. 

1 minute ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

@Portugal25

It looks like you should update your list with some of the information given on this thread. 
 

@Raphael84 $4 a graft for Dr. Bisanga is a bargain! What’s the cost for going to Athens? And can you explain the difference?

I updated this morning right after @Raphael84post 😉

5 minutes ago, Raphael84 said:

Interesting.

It really depends on what elements are being used to critique/decide.

Is your preference in technique more important than consistent results.

Is more economical price more important than experience? Normally the more experience a doctor may have, the more demand he/she will have (providing they are delivering results) and this will normally effect pricing.

Some doctors are more comfortable to take on “safer” cases with patients who have experienced a lesser amount of loss, and therefore it is “easier” to achieve those consistently great results. Other doctors may take on much more challenging cases than others would be prepared to consider, and may achieve an incredible result based on the patients limitations and case difficulty, but it may not impress as much as a dense hairline for example. But which doctor achieved the more impressive result when considering all factors?

What about when a patient may have not achieved that optimal yield, whether it be due to physiology, scalp concern or whatever the case may be, how does their doctor stand behind them. Are their employees always their to support. Will the doctor offer an appropriate solution willingly?

Whilst I love to see “new” doctors making a name for themselves, I don’t think a handful of impressive results is comparable to other doctors who have performed and delivered year in year out. Newer doctors may well surpass them with time and every field evolves, but to be in the “top 5” list, I would look for many examples of all different kinds of cases from female, repair, different Norwood patients etc... Otherwise the “top 5” should be “top 5 Norwood 2” doctors.

Is technical ability and artistic vision considered?

There are many variables to consider and we will all have our own opinion. As long as patients have access to quality physicians who have their best interest as their priority and who can  deliver consistently optimal results; this is what I believe is important.

Always interesting to hear people’s opinion. Each of us will have our own preferred doctors due to their personal style and approach.

My choice of TOP 5 are Doctors that have been around for several years with technical artistry and vision that take on really tuff cases and repair jobs.
Dr. BF does surgery on DUPA patients at Lorenzo’s clinic on a regular basis and has accepted patients that were rejected by other good Doctors. 
Dr. Bruno Pinto should have between the two Spanish foruns well over one hundred real patients results and all the ones I saw were flawless regardless the norwood level. 
Konior is the undisputed US Fue champ and yes some may argue I jumped the gun on adding Nadimi to my TOP 5 but she’s been trained by the best and just needs more real patients posting her work. 

Again, my preference for FUE Doctors that are focused on just 1 patient per day and aren’t doing pre-made slits left out amazing surgeons like Couto, Freitas and Bisanga but that’s just my personal FUE preference. 

11 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Mmh, I do not know if they do exclusively stick&place, maybe someone who was there can confirm. But stick&place is not DHI, it is still slits with a blade. And I think it is not only the method you use it is also the experience you have. And she cannot have that much. 

And more importantly, the artistry in hairline and swirl design is also very important not only the method. I have not seen enough to make an evaluation of her artistry. What I have seen: Because of her methods she limits the amount of grafts per session below what I think is appropriate for the case. 

Quite right maybe I jumped the gun due to the few stellar work some of her patients posted and her technique that despite not being DHI I do believe when performed by a skilled surgeon it can provide even better results because the Doctor has more sensitivity when implanting the graft vs DHI that’s a technique that makes implanting so simple that it lead to worldwide tech run franchise HT joints. 

11 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

 

How does Nadimi make it on your list?

Granted she has a great teacher but she has how much posted reviews? 3? 5? And she does this for only a couple of years while still doing nose jobs etc. 

Also, I think Konior and Nadimi using pre-made slits and not implanter pens or am I mislead?

@Gasthoerer Konior and Nadimi are both doing stick&place on just 1 patient per day. She was few patients posting results online but the ones she has are amazing on par with Konior. I believe in the future she will be to Konior what Bloxham is now to Feller.

Haven’t seen any other US Doctor doing surgery on just 1 patient per day with such a highly skilled technique so I can understand why they are much much more expensive than all the other US docs still doing FUE with pre-made slits on more than 1 patient per day.

Couto would be on my TOP 5 if he would focus on just 1 patient per day but that’s just my preference after having had a experience where the doctor was next to me for 3 whole days focused on just my surgery and nobody else’s. 

Guess I also value Doctors that have amazing skills and results but still out to make a name for themselves a bit more than those that have already made a name for themselves for decades and have nothing more to prove. 

20 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

I think I was one of the first to mention Hattingen in here, but Top5 in FUE is IMO overstating. FUT a whole other story. 

I totally agree and also have them in my TOP 5 FUT Docs (not FUE).

1 minute ago, Raphael84 said:

Dr. Bisanga charges €4.00 per graft FUE.

Is that the total amount with tax? Regardless if it’s 1000 grafts or 3000?

Please also confirm the price for FUT.

Thanks

31 minutes ago, karatekid said:

He meant that H&W and Konior are for republicans

H&W are actually very cheap for their level of quality. Check my list.

Konior prices are geared towards upper class US citizens and foreigners.

The annual net average salary in Portugal is 14.000USD so obviously the average Portuguese can’t afford Konior as it would cost what they make in 1 year. 

For someone that has a annual net income over 80k (if it´s a family men with kids) or 40k (if it`s a single guy without responsabilities) I can see them considering Konior but here in Portugal less than 1% of the population make 80k in 1 year. 

On 10/22/2020 at 2:38 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

This is actually spot on, let’s not spread misinformation @Portugal25 he charges depending on the complexity of the case. A virtual consultation should be done to understand the cost for your individual case.

@Melvin-Moderator I updated the list to 10-16USD so it can be more accurate.

However, I do believe we would all gain if HRN had a similar list with the Prices, technique, Doctor/Tech Involvement of all their affiliated Doctors.

Just now, Grafts said:

@Portugal25 Thanks. I'm just curious why you don't have Dr. Kyriakos Maras on your list (That's why I asked)

I thought there may have been a reason he is not on there. 

He’s on my list.