scar5

Sundeep, That sounds like, well, I haven't a clue so good thing u r going to an eye doc. I will tell you what I have experienced after my strip operations through the years and no doubt there is variability among patients.YOu have already probably read this before. So if this sounds like a broken record, then..well.. The swelling does effect my eyes, but usually at the end of the swelling period, when the whole swelling thing is easing off. The swelling starts higher. End of Opday+1 I notice that notice is that I lose the vertical creases in my forehead and I think I look younger so its great. About a day later, it turns into a watermelon forehead, just slightly, basically bulged out in my upper forehead. By day three, this has subsided and I have a marked mongoloid look as the swelling seems to drop. The ridge across the top of my nose has expanded and there is pressure, not the least painful, but gentle pressure on my eyes form the nose outwards. There is sometimes a couple of reddish marks near my eyes. And then by day 5 it's good again. I don't think that this is gonna help. Oh..just for the record, in my FUEs I experienced no swelling, but I have seen pics of those who have (actually one)

I don't know whether the needle vs custom-made blades thing and the post-2000 lateral slit popularity are science, intuition or just plain co-incidental. I do suspect this ; there has been a bias towards sacrificing weak minaturized hair in the NW2,3 zones for the 'greater good', that being, the well-angled growth of hair splayed out to create the illusion of volume. Compromising vascular integrity has gone slightly behind the priority to start on a fresh slate and create the architecture of a well-made illusion. Patients at some clinics are told to stop Minox months before a transplant. To weak hairs, the combination of a minox drought and shockloss of an HT is a death warrant, but it doesn't matter, because take a bow, newly transplanted, flat and splayed lateral follicle. No doubt, sagittal slits protect the existing follicles much, much more because they are parallel.

The original FUE doc only does that many in a day, max. Others have a 'minimum' charge. I've seen Harris (Denver?Rockies?) patients with FUE extracted in parallel bands within fully grown hair in the donor, so that no extraction is evident and with the kind of procedure you're looking at -assuming you have NW2 (or NW2 to3)hair on top, I cant see why you can't comb over the recipient bits for six months. Shockloss is always a worry short term, another reason to go big as possible.

It's amazing, isn't it. It seems that some want to create the impression that a promotion post into a forum like this, gets delivered with as much thought of a junk-mailer popping thousands of leaflets in every box in town. I mean, how many HT sites are there out there? Sure, readership is small compared to the industry at large, but wouldn't neograft want to win us over? Haven't they got the kind of acumen to make sure that they profile their product better? Obvious to us, these kind of posts have hurt Neograft and it's a shame. I have no idea whether it is any or not, but these kind of posts make you feel bad about it.

Footnote from the beloved ISHRS (International Society for Hair Restoration Surgeons*) recent FUE vs Strip article on whether or not docs should perform extractions, "Surgical removal of tissue by non-licensed medical personnel may be considered practicing medicine without a license by state, federal or local governing boards of medicine. The Society supports the scope of practice of medicine as defined by a physician's state, country or local legally governing board of medicine." This is their disclaimer, after they totally trash the idea of techs doing extractions. The society, is having their conference in Boston pretty soon. I hope someone form our community takes it in. I don't write them off as a source of information and as a window into the mindset that informs the 'shop window' they present to consumers in the HT market. Back to the topic at hand I am not confident, at the present time in techs or the system they are compelled to work within. I just think, in theory, they should and could be trained to do extractions. As for incision/recipient sites, I have personally been a victim of poor, very poor tech work, and I am even less confident of giving them the blade (or needle). NO disrespect to the techs, but the system PPS. Note in their article, no mention of loss of dormant hair in strip.

Agreed. Janna makes a great point. FUE extraction takes too long and sucks up too much of a doctor's time and powers of concentration. So docs don't like doing it and so this is has helped FUE garner a reputation that it is 'Good for small jobs' simply because no normal doctor wants to spend that much time hunched over your noggin. So I recommend people get many 'small jobs' spread over years BUT Finally a quality clinic makes a statement about it - so kudos to Blondedude for getting this going. I see no reason that techs can't do it. The problem is knowing the techs themselves, and how much confidence can we have in them? I've had both teams of techs as well as 1-1 with the doc. In respect to the teams, I didn't notice anything to make me panic, (I was more concerned with the extraction device) but I was quite surprised with the variation between them (the teams). An example would be the number of extractions holes , say team member 1 made, before stopping to re-asses. Now this maybe to do with a number of things unrelated to the tech, such as the position of that part of the scalp, degree of bleeding, stage of the surgery, relative ease in which the extractions are proceeding..but still I noticed quite a variation. So how can we know if a tech is experienced? We could give him or her a 'face badge' and put him on a board like this - thus recognizing that person. But that obviously has problems too. (Maybe still, better than nothing) We don't know the pilot who takes us and 300 others up in a jumbo jet, but we don't sign disclaimers either. It's a tricky one. BUt as more clinics adopt FUE, and as FUE 'breaks out' of the shackles and the limitations are revealed to be more about clinic and doctor economics rather than patient characteristics, there is bound to be a need for us to have a way to see how techs get 'qualified'.

You are blessed with body hair? Can I ask you this? Are you on Propecia or any kind of DHT inhibiting medication? In my case, these medications drastically reduced my bodyhair - it was a good thing in one respect, but bad i another, because I invested in BHT, to some degree of success I must say. My impression of it at this stage is this. And WARNING, I am no expert (even though I think I am.. lol) BHT went through a kind of bubble-'n-bust cycle in the early '00s, like the .com boom of the late '99. But what surfaced from all this? And it is NOT an easy question to answer because of the paucity of evidence. (I actually got fired, I mean, eh- banned, from HLH because I stated my honest opinion about this at one time) If the following list of points simply is a matter of telling u how to 'boil an egg' then, well, sorry... 1) BHT works in a technical sense. Hair grows. I have evidence on my own scalp, in scar tissue too. 2) BHT doesn't work aesthetically. My definition of this is the following. It doesn't create the illusion of density in a way that mimics nature to the naked eye. Why this is, is another matter to discuss - and quite possibly interesting to hair nerds like us 3) BHT and Beard HT should not be mixed... Facial hair should be called another acronym, let's call it FHT for now. 4) FHT is awesome. One whisker counts for 1.5 to 2 hairs in the crown. One BHT counts for 0.25!! That's it - you need four chest hairs to mimic the effect of one single scalp hair. Why four? It's a rough figure, but let's say two factors make it so. a) Thinner caliber of BHT and b) Longer dormant phase of body hair So what has progressed? I'm not sure anything has in terms of BHT itself. FHT has been a resounding success. BHT has been proven to help, 'soften'. Take a look at my good buddy, 'Sofarsogood'. There is no doubt his hairline has improved. But as for density, I have my doubts. Frankly, the crispy, wrinkly and wispy BHT transplants I've seen so far, on naked scalps have done wonders to hide the gothic-horror works of art of the 80s scalp reductions, but not much else. Oh..and a video or pic can make anything look decent. What is better is the skill level base and extraction technology of the top clinics.

To all punters out there, including the guy who started this thread, but must now wonder whether he is even relevant. Here is the way I see it for this guy and others in his position and yes, it has a lot to do with strip vs FUE and yes that is an argument that drives people crazy, but still the landscape is changing and peoples perceptions are very likely to be swayed by the appeals to this or that and the urgency one feels for a quick fix. I have been there so many times. 1) I don't believe in the essential ' FUE candiate" stuff. However, a higher degree of baldness points to FUE more rather than less, as is often stated on the basis that strip is good for 'big jobs' and FUE is for 'small'. With FUE you have "a line of retreat", which brings us to the next point. 2) I can shave or buzz down any of the FUE'd out areas on my scalp without a problem. Lucky characteristics? Maybe? But I won't do it anyway because I have obvious strip scars, some of them are wide (and old) and some of them are textbook 'pencil' and new and ALL of them, every cm of them are obvious and scream HT. By the way, I am completely plundered, there is not a hair left in my donor I can extract. 3) If you met me 'in person' for eight to ten years after my first few strips you would have been very impressed. 11 years later, my front on view was still brilliant. I could show you a passport photo but i'm shy of boards, pics etc..and for good reason in my particular case. You would have been very impressed in 1999 (thats's 11 years later) . If you saw me in 2006, you would have been appaulled. If you see me now, you probably think Mnn, not bad. But it has been a very hard road back and I have been a pain in the ass on these boards. I apologize for all of my dramatics and BS. And it should be said I cwouldn't take propecia for the longest time. In fact I started on avodart in about 2003, had bad sides, quit, and didn't start propecia till only three years ago. So you could say, well it's all my fault. But will we all tolerate propecia and for how long? 4) Tricophytic closure is not a panacea and is not something you can predict. ANy strip scar is unpredictable. 5) I don't doubt that we have some extremely happy strip patients here who have benefited from the brilliance their respective surgeons and surgical teams 6) IMO, generally surgeons, including the good ones, especially the good ones who do both types of surgery, hate doing FUE. The ones that do it exclusively make it their brand. The others fall into two categories, they do it sometimes at a price that varies from competitive with the best strip, to ridiculous. The other kind, they hand over the extraction process to teams and often machines. They are cheaper and very competitive with strip.. Good luck to all growers, shavers and buzzers etc.. P.S> Oh, ES , I understand about the redness. yes, usually, but not always, the redness subsides, and it is whiteness that becomes the enemy eventually.

Garet, 1. Check Steve from BHR, as I said before. NW5, 5 FUEs. Be aware he works for composite clinic and may encourage strip first, then FUE, 'if you need it' ..but follow his actions rather than his words if you get my drift. 2. For prices, do your own leg work. Sorry for the tough love here, but clinics will give (they need to, a simple business reality) different prices for different patients at different times. 3. A thin scar is as bad as a thick scar if you want to buzz down. (I don't necessarily recommend buzzing down, but I have many associates who do and proudly, whilst secretly taking meds - u know the story) Wearing your hair is a social gambit, nothing more or less. The option to 'choose' is paramount even tough it is a superficial thing. To wb, I hope you understand when I say I mean that 'reckless rationalism' is a term I use because hair transplantation is a big deal for everyone involved and it takes guts to do it and to not do it. I have been guilty of it too. I honestly believe strip gives the grafts that go in the slit a better chance, but I think a partially balding man trying to hide a strip scar is a tragedy, and all to save a few thousand bucks( even though, say, An FUE could work out cheaper i the long run) And I respect ES's posts too.

Actually, I couldn't disagree with ES and wb more. I think you are smart to hold off pulling the trigger on a strip operation, however. Let's look at the details and remember it come from a person who just paid for strip ES says, 1) Forget about FUE because of a) cost and b) poor yield c) Pencil thin, my girlfriend, it's only gonna get better, etc., etc., a) cost wrong - just check b) poorer yield? I agree, that the transplanted hairs themselves don't grow as robustly with FUE overall but consider you will lose 1000 grafts (in the bin) for every strip mega-session due to the linear extraction peripheral transection (that's over 60cm for a 30cm strip) and the loss of dormant hairs in the strip, maybe a fair trade off c) Why will a strip scar get better as you age? It gets worse, not just because of the strip itself, but because the deterioration of the donor hair as you age By the way I have done strip, by the best and worst, and FUE by the best and something less. I think the reckless rationalism that goes on in these boards should be a caution to you.

Donor shockloss is very common and in all my procedures, it has recovered. I wish I could say the same for recipient shockloss!!

Cold feet and funding??...Well, it is hard for you to imagine this right now from where you stand now, but if you are left with bigger problems down the road, the funds mean squat. Speaking of funds and the possibility that you may do something you may regret, have you thought about a series of small FUE sessions?? I know this may not be something to satisfy you initially, but having a mindset, I will modestly and steadily improve/maintain my appearance over the next 10 years within my financial means and if I change my mind and buzz, I will have that option. FUE is not as expensive as you might think. Well respected FUE surgeons now post prices that compare favorably with the big strip clinics we see on these sites. I think this is the way to go in future - a slow and steady approach with 5 to 8 FUEs over the the rump of the balding timeline. Have you seen Steve form BHR? That approach is a winner IMO. The reputable clinic means a good chance of graft survival, not so much the scar will not bother you. Give it a thought.

My first scar was along the red line you drew, right side only, and it was too high and stretched badly. Years later, the doc acknowledged the mistake, shrugging it off saying it was "too high". I get your point about the smile and the iconic statement it makes, if you are not in a position to hide it.

There are not many well known HT surgeons in Australia and NZ for this reason (due to this effect of being in the Southern Hemisphere with their heads pointing down) But the blood rush to the head one gets hanging would also be a DHT rush??

thanatopsis is right on when he says be wary of the well-intentioned and fashionable hair stylist who has great plans but just doesn't understand the incredibly delicate way in which the 'illusion of volume' works. I have come out of a salon looking ten years older more than once and yet I was utterly convinced of the merits of the stylists idea - just that I didn't appreciate the magic of the HT's bread and butter - the illusion of hair

The clinic can put a bandage over your re-planted strip and give you instructions on how to apply it. I don't think it is a concern but I would be interested to know if 'popping' is more of an issue in strip scars, particularly tough ones . By 'popping' I mean when a newly implanted graft just kinda gets squeezed and jumps out of the recipient site.

HTs are an illusion and you can play a few games with the illusion but remember that length and color play a massive part. I couldn't get away with my current style without peroxide. I think it's an excellent question for any HT patient to present to his surgeon. In my experience docs with a disagreeable fashion sense can produce surprisingly good and interesting answers. Great question here.

Meds is a question as is the current length of your strip scar. A lot surgeons will tell you, "Well, seeming you've been sliced already let's just do it again. Later you realize that you have a extended a 12cm scar at the back of your head to a full 1950s windscreen wraparound strip scar, ear-to-ear or even temple-to-temple. There are a lot of creeping magic markers with scar revisions - BEWARE! Generally, straight hair helps FUE, but the whole case-by-case viz-z-viz Strip vs FUE analysis is the biggest deception going around in the HT world, in my very humble and heavily dented personal opinion. AKA FUE 'candidate' . Good luck!

I am addicted to push-ups in a kind of love-hate way so I think I know why u wanna do em The strip always looks good for the first six to eight weeks and then u notice the odd flash of skin sans follicles. Strip scars r unpredictable even from the very best but the common wisdom is don't strain those neck muscles. As long as u don't believe in the kind of wisdom like the little toes is connected to the forehead etc I think it's OK to imagine ur doing no harm but Amu muscle above ur waist strain is a risk with strip IMO

Interesting. I would tend to avoid but if they say they can, I wanna see. I suggest going along with the commonly banded around mantra -and IMO, a false assumption, but nevertheless, it's what they tell us and unless u want eleptic's backyard job, better to heed- that FUE suits small sessions ((for clinics, and esp. docs)) and plan to have 5-7 sessions over a 5-8 year period. Your choice of FUE is excellent. As it gives you options when/if drugs stop along with many other benefits In regard so the clinics you speak of. If they are pushing the envelope sure, lets see. I think we are talking a tech/mech approach. (technicians and machines) 1) I don't think a doc would do this (see below) 2) what kind of punch? (rotary drill, Feller punch, neograft?, manual- the last I would like to see and I see no reason why techs can't be trained in this delicate art) Why a doc wouldn't do it. No doc I know would want to sit next to you, back bent, magnifying eyes clipped for the time needed to safely drill out 2000 extractions a day. Remember you want them to be doing it day in, day out or else they wouldn't have the skill, right.

As much as I respect Feller and Spex's posts (great post on shedding for example) I cannot object enough to comments like, "Strip is a MUCH better way to utilise YOUR donor area LONG TERM" . I had ten happy years with a strip scar covered by a crop of hair augmented well by robust strip procedures. That's long term for many young guys. Fast forward ten years later. Ouch... Dodgy tattoos in my strip scars. Hopeless attempt after attempt at shaving and 'be proud' Nowadays, I am doing OK, but just. I grow it longer. It took me 15 years to accept he compromise. Maybe, 'that is all you need..." Think carefully about the strip scar and 'long term'. I also think these comments are dodgy, "FUE is only suitable for small sessions up to around 1000+ grafts" " Strip on the other hand enables you to use your donor supply safely" And of course, "Once you have used up the strip donor sufficiently THEN its a better idea to go in via FUE to tap in to further donor supply if the demand for greater numbers is there initially." Many people say I am bitter at being an 80s strip recipient. I look fine just now, it is not an issue most of the time, unless in harsh light. If you have already accepted yourself it is one thing. If you have already accepted the 'mask' and 'the spin' and are happy with it, go for the strip, cause it's cheap and the yield is good. But if your sitting on the fence, I say think 'long term' about the strip scar.

Brows, Regarding pain, there is no question that FUE is less painful in the immediate post-op period. Sleeping is not a problem. Furthermore, it is less worrying because of scar stretching issues. Lastchance, What planet are you living on? Talking about the day of the op as if that represents pain, discomfort and concerns regarding strip - "a few pricks etc". Keep it real, 'post-op' depends?? Depends?? Are you kidding? Any prospective patient should know that re. comfort, FUE vs strip - there is NO comparison. It doesn't "depend" on anything. It is as clear as night and day. For HT punters out there, yield is more important than pain - just for the record, but it is always a worry when we start to fudge the two procedures

Julius, Don't lose faith in FUE. Don't read too much into stories about Spex being told FUT bla bla. Think about the reasons why composite clinics have a vested interest in keeping strip as the prime generator of income and FUE for boutique purposes or specilaist purposes. Dr. Feller is his worst enemy in this respect - and beleive it or not, I respect him immensely as a doctor, and as a commentator - he openly admits that FUE is a pain in the #%s. I can't tell you enough, do not lose faith in FUE as a technique that offers you a realistic chance to have it both ways as the unpredictable nature of balding and drug treatment plays out on your scalp and your body. Shapiro has to be commended for taking on FUE. Again H&W's PR about,, 'we don't do FUE because we wanna offer value to our patients bla bla" well, take that with a grain of salt. THere is no doubt these clinics produce great strip results, so to Bisanga, who will also offeryou strip at a heart beat and so too armani in their strip days. The FUE into the strip scar is an understandable but dodgy rationaization. You just can't get the texture to match if you wanna buzz. sure, if you grow out, it can improve your situation, just as tattoos can. But if you are talking about a longer hair sceanario then the whole discussion is mute, might as well get strip and pray you don't end up like me in my late 30s, when I realized I wanted to buzz afterall due to progressive loss 15 years after my first HT

Julius, I am not a believer in a lot of the stuff that clinics say about FUE. I think that clinics generally undervalue the donor potential of FUE and overvalue the yield. In other words, more than 2500 -3000 are available from an average virgin scalp, but the yield figures of 95% (that I hear from 'famous' clinics is dodgy. I think that planning strip plus tattoo over the scar is not a smart plan. Moreover, I think that having strip and planning to FUE in the scar is just as bad. I am currently researching tattoos and I believe that color changing is not as bad a problem as often assumed if good inks are used, however definition loss (or blurring) is really an issue and still a red flag. The FUE world in a technical sense (never mind the spin) is in flux at the moment. We have a variety of tools and protocols. We have a lot a dodgy claims and yet we have a promising technique that gives balding guys the option to buzz or even shave if a change of plans is necessary. Strip yields are good, but there is a dirty side to strip that gets passed too. Regarding orientation, yes, the hairs should be aligned the same way, but they frequently are not. we are often told that it is just a matter of the hair settling. But anyone who has sat in the chair knows that the amount of time the tech has to orientate each graft is small. This has nothing to do with sit angle. But I concur, a couple of buzzed strip results I have seen look pretty damn good in this respect.

I concur with that. Sometimes a doc will prefer to see your hair with some length before shaving the head. It might be to help them design the HT or assess the different trajectories the hair grows at. The drawback is that a lot of guys figure to buzz the hair off just before the HT to help disguise the transition to no hair, but I don't think the hair has to be real long, just an inch, maybe less