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Thanks for the post and info. I am really hoping for future patients that the machines continue to improve. I really don't hold much hope for hand punching although some continue to do it. Oh, I think a paragraph is missing.. Background (missing part goes here) In 2002, veteran hair restoration surgeons Dr. William Rassman and Dr. Robert Bernstein published an article.... like maybe... In 1989, an Australian doctor started a bold new procedure, extracting individual follicles from the donor area of the scalp, one at a time. He was immediately ostracized by the mainstream HT industry types in the IRHRS, who wanted to promote strip, and his procedure was thoroughly trashed by a succession of doctors in the states and elsewhere for ten years. Even when it was belatedly gaining acceptance, it was called 'hype'. This doctor decided, long before had decided to keep his tools secret from these other guys, which didn't help the spread of knowledge and even now, we can't talk about his tools, because we don't really know about them. And then start the 'In 2002...'. Please!! FUE has a much longer history than 2002! But I really like the overall effort to promote discussion about the techniques.

Go to All About Testosterone website for gems like, :eek:start increases in plasma testosterone commonly observed following a hard weight-training session are not just the result of increased production of testosterone from the testes, but also from a reduction in its clearance (blood flow to the liver and kidneys is reduced during exercise) :eek:finish Boy, we have come along way. Just a few years ago, suggesting weights and increased hairloss were even related was tantamount to treason in the name of all things wholesome and Godly. Now more and more posters are openly conceding that weight-training and increased hairloss are not, horror, unrelated, for those of us lucky types prone to MPB. Of course it's a balancing act. Who wants to be in a semi-coma to keep their hair? Obviously no one, but it is refreshing that we don't talk in absolutes anymore! They should make a Propecia-Whey powder. I can see it now, ProWhey. Now that IS a scarey thought.

Jon, still no comment from you about Rassman and Goodloodlook ink - and their willingness to promote hair and ink in the one package. Buddy, I am asking too much! All I wanna do is find out whether I can keep some hair and get bald patches inked up. Of course I have asked, ...and the answer is HIS=no, GLI, Rassman=yes So I then ask? Why, the difference, they are basically doing the same thing? ...and the answer from you is, HIS are real gentlemen So I conclude ......duh.... And so I urge you, against my natural urge to say, just leave it, I urge you to take a peak at the situation and comment And the answer is ......HIS are real gentlemen So I say, fair enough, this guy doesn't wanna even entertain a discussion. Prefer - prefer to discuss. I assume you have not had pigmentation done by the other companies first, but if you had I thoroughly understand. Sorry to be a pain in the ass. I'll leave it now and move on! Cheers

Jon Thanks for your efforts. I've looked to, and frankly, I've seen enough, but thank you. HIS do skinheads, and quite frankly, I don't like a lot of the hairlines on skin head work, regardless of whether they are HIS, AC, GLI or whatever. I want my hair to be THE hairline and not the tattoo define my hairline. It is just that HIS don't deliver. And the others do - at least as far as proudly displaying picture on their websites. But wait, not so easy, the others may not be as good?? OR?? HIS might be able to do hair, but so far, are keeping to a strict and simple protocol while their empire expands. A kind of one-size fits all mentality. Easier quality control, training etc. Remember, many of the HIS technicians are ex-patients, not tattooists. Now I know you are not interested in growing hair, so it might not be interesting, but if you really wanna help me do this. 1) Check out Rassman's site and then GoodLookink. They have clear pictures of hair. Rassman clearly demarcates the concept of shave, buzz and longer hair, and show it in clear accessible, separate folders in their library. Their files are tiny compared to HIS, puny!! 5 minutes tops in total 2) Now did anything you hear, see, touch, smell in all your research and experience with SMP, suggest that the tatt + hair thing is BS? What do you think of this situation? That is the golden egg I wanna crack buddy!!! That right there!! Why?? Not interested? Well, let me say I am loving it that you contribute to this thread, and I'm glad you are happy with everything. I think a lot of the criticism you will cop here would be alleviated if you were less focused exclusively on HIS and the warm/fuzzy stuff. I want the warm/fuzzy stuff, too, don't get me wrong. But I just wanna LEARN something. What the hell is going on with this?

YN3, Thanks for your post. I hope you grow well. To be honest I just wanna know one thing. How was Dr. Diep able to convince you to chose strip at your stage of life and hair loss? I, like you, was 24 when I stepped into the world of HT. I still had the full crop at 17, but by 18 and a half it was going. And like you, I went to a local surgeon who seemed to be reasonable. I even did the strange move of asking a renowned doctor in another field, radiology infact, to recommend a HT doctor to me based on what I thought of as come kind of "doctor-peer-respect" thing. I ended up going with the the president of the IHSRS! the biggest HT association in the world at the time (still is??) so I thought I chose pretty wisely. Now I am 48, and I am still here, all these years later trying to sort out my dilemmas. I made some dumb mistakes along the way, including recently, and perhaps the biggest I made was opting for an HT at a time when the techniques were not a match for what hormones were gonna do for me. I chose strip surgery (it was that or scalp reduction -trust me u don't wanna know about that one) when it was clear I would lose much more hair. So my question is this. You are an early loser of hair. Dr. Diep does both FUE and strip. How was it he was able to convince you, at your age, and at your stage of hair loss, that strip would be a wise choice for you? I am not stronger or wiser myself. I got convinced to do strip as recently as three years ago by a HIGHLY respected surgeon. It created my worst scar. (edit - well, it is now my worst, I actually had one worse, that was revised in 2003, created by my first HT the same doc who subsequently created my best scar, still today -end edit) I wish you all the best, and I hope you can take advantage of all the medications, information boards, highly skilled "surgeons" as well as the other options that are now available. Thanks for the post and pictures.

Thanks Jon, No dice there Jon. All of the pics from HIS are skinheads. They SAY they can combine with HT in their sales material, but there isn't anyone in the whole HIS world with hair and tatts that I can see. Isn't it amazing that the other guys have hairy heads and HIS doesn't, so that is the riddle I wanna solve. Sorry to be an ass, but you say research is important, but then say you don't care about the technical aspects of it at all, color and needles etc., because you are a client and you leave it to them. I think you made a lot of assumptions actually. You say meeting clients is important, but how many clients did you meet before deciding on HIS? It looks more and more like you had faith in HIS based on their good demeanor and business practice and that gave you the faith to go ahead with them at a clinic that must have been operating barely for days. But I should remember you said that you participated in their forum so, I guess I have to retract that because you would have found out a lot of stuff from other pateints. I wanted to ask you for the dirt - I know scars aren't your concern (lucky for you) - but, general stuff you won't discuss anything negative or dubious you discovered so no dice there either. I am really happy for you though buddy. I mean that. Just my own frustration coming through. It's just hard getting a discussion going in here when everybody is just praising a clinic, doctor, sales representative etc., but that is the way the cookie crumbles. Just now, we have Dr. Feller, I read, taking a patient to court for saying something wrong on a forum. Scarey stuff. Don't blame you man. And all the best. Here is my rationale. Ink the bald areas on top and the scars. If it looks good, grow it a little. If not, buzz to skin head and hope like hell the scars are OK. HIS say it's skin head or nothing. Goodlook have pics of hair is cool. Go figure.

Jon., Are you kidding me?? I haven't found anything!! I'm not happy with any service!!:confused: I just saw a website where guys have hair at a substantial length (I mean less than an inch, but hair!) and I wanted your comment, because it's a massive difference for guys with HT scars and an HT hairline they don't wanna shave off. So you don't want to check the picture and discuss it. Fair enough, no problem from me. But it is a discussion board, and, well, I like to raise issues and discuss them. But I am far from arriving at 'a home' with this, and that is why I raised the issue. What's going on? Anyone out there care to comment. So far, HIS = Skinhead, GLI = skinhead or short hair. I wrote up in another thread, I think I know why. I think it's just HIS having light tones and not giving creative license away to cheaply to their agents around the globe. (Fair enough too) But If I'm on my own, and can get no feedback from you guys, I guess I'm not getting anywhere with this discussion I hoped to open. Thanks anyway

The more stretching you do, the more likely you are to be helping the telegen hairs out of the skin. (the telegen hairs are at that point in the cycle where they are no longer growing, but are still in the outer parts of the follicle waiting for the new hair to push them out, or destined to fall out) A bit like rubbing scabs off. These telegen hairs are likely to remain in the skin longer otherwise and then all of a sudden, when the strip is taken and the wound is closed, the new stretched skin will drop them, as the tension or the 'grip' on them is loosened by the scalp stretching. This gives you the appearance of more shock loss than the amount that has taken place. Strip doctors don't talk much about these because they don't want to remind you that you lose a lot of them (telegen hair) during a strip procedure, so they insist that the hairs stay in the skin so that their cutters can see them and that healthy follicles aren't accidentally binned on account of being 'vacant' of a hair. But think about rubbing the scalp for 30 minutes a day for months. Those hair will be helped out.

Damn it, my screen capture wouldn't paste in this box. Well it would, and when I pressed post, it vanished. Well, if you have a chance, check the GoodLook Ink sight and see specifically two guys in their gallery - it's on the opening page - check it out man, it is amazing that these guys have hair AND tatts. And it is amazing that HIS don't. And it is amazing that some guys don't seem to care or blow it off. Hightopfade seem to think it was no big deal. It is a BIG deal.

Jon, This is what Minneapolis are doing. See what I mean!! HIS, this stuff? No where in sight. This is a massive difference. For guys with scars, this is the stuff we need! Why won't HIS do it? that is the question>

See that's just what I wanna know!:confused: Save me the trouble! But I understand why you don't wanna post a negative appraisal of a company. It's really a bind, isn't it? Post at your peril, as it were! Everyone wants to fleece some info off you. Especially cases like me! Anyway, I am coming around to a better viewpoint thanks to these type of threads. But I'm thinking of it too much!

Really?? So why do GLI appear to 'do it' and HIS appear to be a world of skin heads!?? Well, my theory, (I do not know, and don't claim to know anything whatsoever) is because they - GoodLookInk - can afford to risk it, they have more confidence (rightly or wrongly) and are not expanding across the globe at a rate of knots so therefore, so they can be more creative without risks inherent in giving that kind of creative license to all the technicians around the world using their brand name. But this is no sleight of HIS, because what they are doing, they appear to do well and if they adhere to this disciplined approach- the world of baldness - (its only 2 billion men) is their oyster. So if they have found the correct formula, kudos. That formula appears to be, (in this magnificent poem of mine) "Do it light, do it subtle, match the skin head, and we won't get in trouble" Seriously, I think they are being conservative, and it is paying them off well. You are right; if you have existing hair, such as a hairline like Darrins's (and mine) HR (Hair Replication- I'm already confused by the marketing acronyms, I'll call it HR), HR can help you, but don't hold your breath for HIS to do it not just yet!! (the rate of the expansion means, next week, who knows?) But obviously, even if you have a strong hairline, but various degrees of baldness, HT hair, minaturizing hair, bald patches etc., behind, you can't go in there willy-nilly trying to match the tones to achieve a consistent appearance. For a start, just turning the head into the light will drastically alter the shades of the 3d and 2d areas. And even if you could, if that person decided to go skin head down the road, it could be a can of worms. Next thing, some competitor is posting a pic of a 'HIS' patient that looks like the patchwork doll with a caption, 'see, don't let this happen'. On the HIS website, they say, we can combine HTs with HR...when it comes to sitting in the chair of these HR companies (not only HIS, but all of them), and you telling them you want to have the remaining hair, and you don't want HR to the hairline, but you do want HR in on the crown, I think you might be given a nudge, suggesting you either go for an all-or-nothing approach. Bit like the surgeon that says, yeah, we CAN do FUE but we think YOU should do strip. thanks for your response

Jon, Don't take it that way.　My sense of humor, is off the dial sometimes. I gotta watch it. I really appreciate your posts and pictures, and this thread has helped me. Anyway, re, Assasin's posts, I thought he was cool but he was getting besieged, by overly zealous defenders. When I say letting blood, I mean, competition is heating up. And pics -judging by that thread - are being misused, so accusations flow back and forth and such..reminds me a bit of the HT world in other forums. This is civil and polite here. I'll leave it at that.

eh...em... I just checked the blog. Poor DHT Assassin is getting jumped on by the guard dogs, when he did a good and useful thing of exposing what we all know is going to happen. The pigment boom is already letting blood, and the first casualties should be clinics posting dodgy pictures of 'other clinics' work or perhaps claiming them as their own. Oh..well. I hope DHT survives. It's obvious too, already, that this whole industry is exploding and at this pace, within a few years, people in public will KNOW about pigments and unfortunately their will be bar fights and finger pointing. I hope it doesn't get too big, but I guess it will. I am closer to solving my mystery about hair vs no hair, and I will address that on another thread on this forum, where Hightop fade answered my question.

Looking good Jon, glad you are so happy. Well, I am in a different boat to you, I could never have such a close shave with my scars, so I am looking for a bit more of a texture to mix with the ink. Besides, my hairline is good. It's what is behind is the problem. Looks like they went pretty light with the ink on you there too. Glad you don't to worry about the courve etc. anymore. Oh BTW, I didn't type it in, I just got it off their website and pasted, that's all. I didn't change a word of it. BTW, I don't carry any weight around here, and frankly I shouldn't because, I don't pastes pictures and tell my story - I am not revealing my tracks, which makes me somewhat ..I dunno...(less than informative and some will say a menace), but for what it's worth, when I said 'Bravo to HIS and GLI', I think I am guilty of pumping it too much. Truth is, perhaps we are a way from finding out the long term prognosis for this treatment. I once wrote that pigment must migrate - it's a biological certainty, (as if I know) and somehow, I was convinced that with the new techniques, inks etc., they would be stable or fade. I honestly don't know. I hope and if I were religious, I would prey it works, so I can walk around with my chin up someday. Here's wishing all the guys in our boat good luck. I sure hope it works and doesn't leave us in another bind down the track.

So you are signing off? Too bad, I wanted to ask you more. You were beaming with good news! You said: I didn't think GLI were in the same ballpark so I didn't bother checking. I say: Fair enough. That explains why you didn't see guys with hair and tatts. Do you know GLI say they do patients pre-HT transplant!! You said: I don't know about needle depth I say: Me too, but I suspect HIS is shallow. GLI is mid. AConcpts deep Shallow = less spread, subtle, fast fade. You say: HIS is not a franchise. I say: Wrong. You say: HIS technicians do extensive training for months I say: To get the franchise, the 'allotted' technician must spend two weeks in Birmingham at HIS training clinic Anyway, seeming as you look like you are moving on, I wanna wish you the best and thanks again for posting. Take no notice of those who say you are promoting. The amount of gushing that flows in the direction of certain sponsored clinics and their industrious PR men on all sites could turn the turbines of generators in heaven. At the moment, HIS is/was my best, but GLI is now hot on its heals. GLI has the advantgae of not being a franchise, so you know the techs will be the same, you know who you will get, plus you can grow hair, BUT, the rapid one-shot system, deeper needles thing and whether they graduate colors has got me digging deeper. I love this concept and I applaud HIS and GLI etc. I hope they get it right. But I just want to put the merchandise on display so us scarred up people, with heads butchered by so called respectable strip surgeons have another chance in life.. So bravo to HIS and GLI But just in case you think I'm making it up, Licensing requires that you or your allocated practitioner attend a full two week residential training course, at our Birmingham Training Academy in the United Kingdom. The course includes a substantial amount of time dedicated to acquiring practical hands-on experience, enabling your staff to practice the technique on real-life volunteer clients. On-site accommodation is provided for the duration of the course. Upon successful completion of the official MHT in-house training course, whilst we are always on hand to provide advice and support when required, Licensees and Franchisees will be provided with a fully comprehensive operations manual and supporting DVD for your reference, enabling you to refresh your knowledge on a particular area should you deem it necessary. Following your training we will attend your clinic, wherever you are based, to provide on-site advice, support and assessments.

Alcohol is good for your hair. Forget about dry skin and all the goodie-two shoes nonsense and just think hair and Male Pattern Baldness. First, its a vasodilater (sp???) meaning it relaxes the walls of the arteries, just like minox and it thins the blood, and best of all it leaves you with more estrogen and less androgen, like fin. All in all, its the best and most pleasant way to stave off baldness - on your way to the grave.

Australia is not a nice place to go bald in some respects, especially if you are white, with Irish blood and fair skin. For a start, your probably sun burnt and wrinkly before your time anyway, even before the protection offered by hair on you're forehead starts thinning and vanishing. We got all the BS going on from hair-in-a-can to Advanced Hair Studios. We had two good respectable surgeons last time I looked - long ago, and that may have dwindled to one for all I know. Not good for 20million, when u consider Belgium. To Aussies I think they outghta check out Mr. Cranky in Sydney (or his sister) and then cast the net wide OS.

Hey Jon B, Thanks for posting about your experience at HIS. I gotta ask u, if u don't mind, what do u think of the group up in Minneapolis, called GoodLook Ink.? The reason I ask, is that they have different techniques and a different approach to hair than HIS and I wonder how u weighed that up. It might help me decide. 1) HIS tends to go for the 2D shaved look, where as GLI lets u grow hair to add texture to the ink. Just check out their boss Darrin and compare it to HIS's boss Ian. 2) Another thing different is the needle depth, deeper at GLI?? I think?? what do u make of that? Dangerous? Better lasting? More likely to spread at deeper levels? 3) And finally, HIS is an franchise, a chain which has rapidly expanded (I almost said exploded) across the globe, just in the last few months alone. So u don't know who will b ur tech. Much like a Bosley or Armani chain. PS. Also did they graduate with different ink tones around your scalp or use one color? Thanks. :)especially if you r willing yo answer questions and help us out.

Nobody will disagree with you there. How could they? But sometimes, and this I mean in general sense-not specifically at this point, and certainly not personally, we get this 'moderation message' as a kind of general smoke screen that obscures our view of some useful and incisive details. I've always been interested in the 'information trade' about HTs and the timing of 'the news' that goes back and forth between customer and clinic. Eventually, all the cards are played, but it's the order in which they come down that counts. We find out and accept the 'unpredictability of scars' long after we predict that a fine doctor will prevent a disaster. I accept being frozen in doubt is no good. We know ships sink sometimes, and that if we don't sail on the boat, we'll be stuck in town listening to the doomsdayers forever. As for swimming, perhaps gentle breaststroke is OK. I don't really know, but serious swimmers do have tight necks and often they hunch over a little too. One of the stretches they do is an 'axial extension' which is like moving your head back and down to create a double chin. It is a curious point though, that we do stretches for months pre-op and get told to lift weights a week post-op:confused:

..and when your head re-enters the water it returns down, stretching the 'relaxed' muscles. Think about the scalp stretching exercises pre-HT and that is before the cut has been made and the skin taken out! They are done for more than 7 days because-I assume- there is a cumulative effect that builds up over many weeks, even months. So why after an op, is it suddenly OK to do stuff weeks - or even days later? After the cut? I've always been told that six weeks is when you can even start looking at the scar to see it opening.

Swimming crawl/freestyle twists your neck, think about that. Breaststroke and Butterfly extend and tug your neck muscles in a forward and down motion. Also a baddy. I wouldn't swim for six months, if its a second or third procedure or especially if its a revision. I did though. Then i read a post from a doctor on this board, I think it was from one of Mssrs Alexander-Lindsay-Feller saying that swimming stretches your muscles. For the first strip, you know you will have it cut open again for top-ups so I guess, you can be more lenient. But if it's you lucky last strip (sorry eh..em FUT), or especially revision, stay outta that pool if you can. Some docs say anything is possible a week out. Others are more cautious. Reps always play down the fears too.

I don't know the answer to that one, but donor hair is often darker than surrounding recipient hair because 1) the former are not minutarized, and 2) they are not as bleached naturally by the sun. You don't notice until thye are up there with the fine, soft and fairer minaturized hair.

Hello there HighTopFade, Now.. I need you to answer a question..and please try to answer it, pretty please. i have been researching and one extraordinary fact stands out that no one seems to mention!!! So here it is... HIShair do skin heads!! Good Look Ink do hair!! Check : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXwRRa_PQfA Ignore the horrible marketing sleeze and watch the first thirty seconds, then go to 4:50 and watch for a minute. See what I mean!! It baffles me!! It befuddles me. It makes my plugs angry! HIS hair: We need to shave you. You will have a shaved skin head look. You can't grow your hair!!! You can grow your hair for 3-4 days. We will not fill in patches. GoodLook: Nonsense, you CAN grow your hair. Look at me! You will see their manager Darrin, narrate the vid. He is not the head you see above you now. Just press play and you'll see him. Then go to 4:50 and check out the dudes late in the video. One has an inked crown and longish hair. (Pretty lame too) It seems quite weird. It wouldn't surprise me if HIShair get on to this quickly, but for now, be warned!! You could fly halfway around the world, expecting to get you buzz/shortish cut inked up, only to be told they will not do it. They work with a shiny bald head and do a 2d look. Where as GoodLook, use the ink and the texture of the existing hair to create an illusion. It's a completely different way of looking at things and doing things and it is incredible that we think of these guys as comparable! So guys, WE GOTTA WISE UP quickly about this. Micropigmentation is a boom industry and already there are wildly different approaches. And for God's sake, Micropigmentation companines, wise up too! You guys aren't gonna last long (or you will miss out on the riches) if you find a ban people from doing their research!! But HighTop! What's up with this?? Am I wrong???

Oh holy smoke, my goodness. This is blasphemy! How could you say this? I can't thank you enough for saying that. I've been saying it for so long and it seems so obvious. And I'm glad you have seen many results. By the way, my HTs are a mix of strip and FUE, good luck and bad luck. I've made some bad decisions along the way. One day, if I get out of it all I'll write it up warts and all. meantime, I'm not going to gloss over things because I need the docs etc. to help me. I was almost there last year, but now the crown is opening up, and so back to the drawing board. Anyway, thanks for the comment and good luck with your growth.