scar5

Fables, There are three other FUE clinics in Belgium worth checking out! besides Bisanga! Yes, .. the plague of composite clinics. I suspect that FUE is the 'carrot' (Even their poster boy is an all-FUE man) , waving like a lantern outside the clinic, only for the patient to be all but told strip is the best choice in his particular case. It's a curse and its a damn shame! Bisanga will not say yield is worse with FUE like Feller does, but I have a hunch he(and staff) will try to convince you to do strip, by default! Stick to your guns! There will always be an excuse composite clinics use to sway you to strip. As time goes by, I am less inclined to encourage patients in the direction of composite clinics, bar Shapiro, unless he too gets fatigued. and frankly, why wouldn't he. Instead, I say go to FUE only clinics and see what they've got. Bisanga has a stricter protocol than say Armani regarding over-harvesting which is good, but also bad and very convenient for convincing you that you have barely 2500 grafts for FUE and a sH&%&t load more for strip! Not to mention, they seem like thoroughly nice people too.

No comparison. Buzzing down an HT to zero guard makes all the sense in the world for a balding guy. If the hair is strategically placed to break up the empty forehead by defining a hairline and temples, and then gradually faded its a great solution for a guy with little available hair for donor. The hair sits under the skin and creates a shadow. A lotta people say FUE is no good for NW6s etc, but for this reason I think it is good, because the buzz can be done (even if it is a shade longer at the back) I think in future years, we will see a lot of guys will plan to both have an HT AND shave their heads and quite a few will look better for it. I'm not saying I like the hairstyle itself, but a horseshoe shadow sucks big time in color contrast situations.

Thanks for posting details of the punch. Here's what I think. a) a 1mm will leave scars, (I assume that is outside diameter, if it's inside, then holy crap, that would leave marks) aa) So Armani uses rotary drills from the home center! ha..ha. Sounds like the type I had too, and I reckon my yield wasn't great, the scarring is no issue. aaa) I have a density of around 30-40 in many areas up back, but I am still planning for a short buzz, even WITH strip scars if I can find a good pigmentation solution b) If your donor thinned out, disguising a strip scar is much more difficult, though judging by your pics, you have enough to cover up if you wanna rock the horse shoe. c) Micropigmentation could definitely help your dot scars. It is easier to disguise than a linear line tattoo. You really must check this out IMO. It is still relatively new, and make sure you go to somewhere good. d) If you really don't care about expressing your hair style, for your own identity, what so ever, and you just really want hair for business or politics or something, I mean you just wanna show the folks that you have hair, then maybe Feller's strip might suit you, but I still think there might be hope, with astute choices and no strip scar. Having said that, a strip will get you fast and solid results if illusion of volume up front is your priority. But a really short cut is then out of the question.

I just saw a poster oh the HisHer clinic board who is far from happy. The dots are too large. It looks good from a distance, but close up, the dots are too bold and don't match the native hair. So there, just incase we think they have 'cracked the code' , they (his/her) although I like what they are trying to do essentially, are also struggling to get it right, just like the rest of us.

Don't blame FUE for your poor yield, blame the clinic, doctors and technicians that took your money and remember you can never buzz with a strip scar unless you wanna look like me, and trust me you don't. I say that knowing FUE's yield might ot as good - but not THAT not as good, if you know what I mean. If the FUE scarring is really bad and you want to buzz then pigmentation might help filling in the dots. It is more effective that way than filing in a strip scar. On the other hand, if you can get more hair, then go for that. Without revealing your doctor or clinic, I think many readers might be interested in the device itself, used for extraction. a) A manual punch (size) b) a rotary mechanical drill c) a type of punch that spins back and forth d) a machine such as neograft

I agree, go to Belgium, do not waste your time in the UK. Me think there are several (now four?) world class FUE (at least) in Brussels. None in UK.

The docs are going to drive us around the bend with this one (a circular argument); a: Which way is the fastest to town? b: It depends, each has his own way, his own preferred route. a: Well then, which way is generally considered to be the fastest, hands down? b: The way which is fastest, of course! a: Look, Damn it, just tell me straight, what is the most popular way? b: Well, personally, I like 'this' way, but hey, that's just me...but as I said, each to his own a: Wow b: Yes, it's a highly refined art and its a personal choice. Do you feel better now? a: Yes..how much for one graft? We have to use some deductive and inductive logic here, but truth be told, I wonder if we'll ever get around to it. I wonder how much an instrument would cost, the one method that is patently the best - could it ever be established? Would it it be wise? economic for clinics to disclose? Whatever, it holds FUE back. (We never here about strip scalpels being discussed) We have four classes 1) Simple sharp punch, a) that the doc twists with him fingers or b) punches straight down 2) Rotary mechanized punch that a) Spin in one direction b) Toggle like a washing machine 3) Complex sharp/blunt punch a) Where a sharp edge breaks the skin and a blunt edge takes over deeper 4) Hand held hose attached to a machine, a.k.a. 'Neograft' machine and its predecessor, the '(just forgot the name) a) Where the instrument is not fixed to the machine b) and the graft is sucked up a hose 5) Mystery instrument classes a) Several docs/clinic have instruments they won't tell us about. Obviously, transection and scarring are the only two worries. But also, we must consider the prospect that one method may have indirect effects on graft survival too. and even the way each method effects the logistics of a clinics operation a) Like which method will encourage a doc to do less FUE, b) Encourage them to let techs do extractions c) Mean that a higher number of grafts will be out of your head for longer d) Mean that the doc had access to the numbers of grafts likely to be obtained at different stages of the procedure so you don't end up with a 'weak side' simply due to the fact that they ran out of grafts and it was six o'clock. 1) Repetitive Strain is a real worry for docs 2) Initial costs of instruments vary dramatically 3) Patents apply 4) Prestige and 'Brand' are important for some instruments/Docs 5) Conversely, secrets are also important So say we could establish the ideal instrument for 50 grafts, but is it the ideal instrument for 5000? Strictly, it should be, because transection and scarring should be the only issue, but because of the above (and more) it isn't. Damn. Of hand I like the hand punch, but each doc will get tired quickly and most likely injured because how many times can a docs fingers spin over that little punch before he says, damn it, I'm getting RSI, why didn't I tell this dude to get strip? Then Neograft is a good idea, because the weight of the device is not in the hands of the operator - it's just the end bit. But I hear the hose dries out the graft - on the other hand, who says so? Oh..that guy with a patented punch. duh..makes sense. What about several unmentionable clinics/docs? Aren't they are getting some good damn results recently - even the one large evil one. Mnn, but they are secret. One of them was a pioneer of FUE and he STILL won't tell the others what he does, how he does it. Can't blame him I guess...but hell. Those rotary punches, the unidirectional ones run by techs look bad.. They look relatively heavy, top heavy, so whilst the tech can easily change the angle, he/she can easily 'mis-change' the angle too. Mnn. One famous doc using them doesn't seem to show FUE results much these days. Now for the SAFE and Feller punches. What can we say about them? I just don't know. They are patented. They are brands! They are brands with doctors names on them. Damn..I'm scared to even question them. Feller's punch was designed to make it easier and reduce the cost. So have the costs come down? Speaking of costs, I remember when the Axis of EVIL cooperation charged $12 a graft, then went to $7 overnight. Did they change punches? Did they go rotary? The RSI strain thing is real. Whilst I think the hand punch, simply twisted, back and forth, by an experienced doc might be best, it is a limited way of thinking because that experience obtained by a doc comes at a cost. He/She will do less FUE because of it and he/she will discourage you from FUE because of it. So, I go back to the Harris/Feller type things and wonder about the Neograft. Is it as notorious as it is made out to be? What a rant. Damn it.

Being a NW6, you aren't likely to get much worse because native hair will not thin out more. I would like to think the guy did you a favor - by bursting your bubble and letting you know that some people can tell and are willing to say it, and that he was nice about it and discrete. Better that, than a crowded social/work setting when the accuser feigns the curiosity of a newborn angel by saying, "Man, your hair looks good, do you mind if I ask you a question....Oh..sorry, I didn't mean to be..." type BS! But really it's not a favor. Just makes us more paranoid. Make sure your hair is cut to the 'sweet length' , well washed and that's about all you can do. If you are in nasty light, hold your chin up. Sounds like you are in a good space about this, better than many, better than me. A lot of guys say they will tell everyone and anyone who asks, I dunno, it's an awful dilemma, especially whilst it's growing out, or after it has settled and not likely to get better, just gradually worse, but as I said, the latter scenario might not apply to you. I recently buzzed and have started the grow out again. It looks awful as it grows from being 1/4 to 1 inch, and once again I am face the spectre of being questioned again as the texture of the spiky HT hair is a month away from blending in with remaining native hair. There is the possibility that this balding dude, just tried it on, didn't have a clue, and just took a stab in the dark, hoping to hit the jack pot and glean some information for his own ass! But prolly just a genuine inquiry. Oh I can totally understand not wanting to reveal your doc.

There seems to be darker areas above the scar, as if she tattooed BEYOND the scar area to enhance the camouflage effect, but I can't figure it out. Do you know if she only tattooed INSIDE the scar, or did she go beyond it?

KM, I am happy for you, and I know a lot of us are watching. I don't want to spread hype about SMP because it didn't work for me the way I wanted it in my first hurried and crude attempt. But this is good news. On my radar the clinics to evaluate and monitor the following (feel free anyone, please add to this list) clinics, not in any order of merit; a) HisHer Clinic UK b) GoodLookInk Minneapolis c) Dr. Rassman SoCal d) Athen Arkasant Bev. Hills & San Fran? e) The clinics that Dr. Ron Shapiro speaks of (who, where ever they are) f) Artistic Solutions Burlington, Northern Carolina I wouldn't endorse any of these clinics yet, mainly because of some harsh hairlines and no satisfactory explanation forthcoming as to why they can't achieve a graduation effect at the hairline. This leads me to the conclusion, that once the needle depth is set for optimal depth it stays that way, and like a robot the technician just fills in the space all the way to the magic marker hairline. I surely hope there is more to it than that. I am definitely going to take a look at Athen. Once again, thank you man.

Km888, Thank you very much for sharing your story. I am not alone in saying I would love to see your pics, both of the test patch and the real deal, as well as why you chose this particular tatooist. Since my crown is dying I am once again in the hot seat and having to deal with scars and short/buzzed hair. I do really nicely if I ignore the crown, but alas. Anyway, once again, please post. I did tatts myself in 2004. Not a real success and I had to have most of it lazered off. The remains are blotchy and not really blended well. However, they do hide the scar somewhat. Mine was not professional at all, just a local eye-brow tattooist. I screwed up, but I think pigmentation could be pretty damn good if done right.

I think we should remember this is not a FUE vs strip debate - although those debates continue to be ESSENTIAL and have helped drive FUE and HT forward. Don't listen to those who say the matter is 'settled'. Yes, I know it sounds.. It's about a forum being biased, not by agenda or design and not by the moderators sitting in a bunker and plotting their evil ways, counting their pennies from Hasson and Wong. It's simply about how money, information, historical trends, hype etc. all coalesce into 'fact'. It's a bit like asking 'is TV biased?' Some will say, it's not. And those that say it might also believe there is balance and harmony in the HT universe and all the planets are aligned and that FUE and strip both have their place. If this were the case, momentum and change would not happen, because both 'have their place' and that is the way things would stay. But reality is different. There is continuing change and forums are a part of the changing picture, a side-show perhaps, but part of it. So too of course are the clinics and the perceptions that doctors have both in surgical, financial terms. Now they must also refine their media-web/information gambit as they read and develop their intuitions about the changing minds and moods of the HT consuming public. I agree with the poster who suggested he could not be bothered waiting for ten year to fifteen year old HT story to mature into a happy ending. I would rather see a six month sensation too.

Pat, fair enough. I think you might notice that HLH has some FUE only sponsors. (I don't think they are called that but that is what I think of them as they pay the rent) I think this must make some sort of difference. These clinics and their docs are allowed to comment directly on the boards, so naturally there will be a small fan-base and positive/curious posters in conversation with them as well as straight up shills, who are waiting with prepared statements and testimonials for a chance to 'defend (=promote) their' clinic.

Well, Pat, (he says respectfully) you have the answer right there. Needless, to say I disagree. Strip scars are not a good idea for ANY balding men period IMO. But I also disagree with your assessment of hairlosshelp being pro FUE. In fact so much so, I question your motive for suggesting it. (I mean that sincerely) The bias towards strip is prevalent not only because a forum's advertising revenue is drawn from income generated through strip procedures, but also through patients reconciling themselves and their decisions to have strip, and the never ending warnings about FUE not being scarless, when in fact, if performed properly should be almost "cosmetically scarless" if that makes sense. But the yield warnings are fair IMO. Where are the FUE only clinics represented? Not represented. Now there maybe good reasons for this, but whatever they are, they tilt the equation in favour of strip. We have composite clinics that perform both, but remember a composite clinic survives on strip income and is set up to perform strip primarily. Furthermore, doctors personally prefer to do strip. (Of course they say otherwise) Then a patient wants fast results. Fast results suit forums!! Strip is the go for that if the goal is big. I vehemently disagree and say take a slow and steady approach with FUE, but that is beside the point. Who wants to read a ten year story that begins with 6 tiny FUEs spread over five years. On the otherhand, you have the overnight transformations with these big strips that make great forum reading. Until, we reach that tipping point (if ever we will) when we have FUE results that are ten to fifteen year old stories that highlight the merits of FUE and until the FUE only clinics stop their squabbling or whatever, strip will rule the internet and we will be forever recycling the same old arguments and it will appear that forums (at least American based) are biased to strip. Having said that, read between the lines, and glean the gold from the rock.

If you are 48, NW5 happy to buzz if the volume is not there, then FUE is the way to go in my opinion because at NW 5 you may not have a crown to match the frontal volume, hence buzz short or shorter is a good option. (as you know FUE is good for that) And apart from your man in Turkey there are a few in Belgium with FUE worth looking at and being in the UK I don't imagine it will be too far to check. You probably know them but just in case you need a reference. At least one will try to push you toward strip but I think you should stick to your guns because they will do a decent job with FUE.

Excellent. One for the FUE sceptics right here! :)No visible scarring and good even growth. Well done. That is what I would do if I had my time again.

Well, now that I realize you were on fin, and if it is still solid, you could cut your hair short and see how you like it, whilst researching FUE clinics. Going for an extremely short FUE Flat style might be an option. Research other FUE clinics. Try Intercapilar. (not a rep, but their results look good, yield and scar wise) Be prepared to travel. Good luck.

So you believe the hair dye itself was changing the diameter of the new hair shafts emerging?? That doesn't happen. The sting can happen. There is bleach and there is dye. Bleach is a Godsend for HT and balding guys. It makes your hair thicker and it reflects light, bouncing the light around the hair tips instead of letting it penetrate onto the scalp where it would shine up the oil and show off our baldness. It makes the shaft courser and thicker so that the scales of the shaft open up. It does make the hair more brittle and prone to breaking, but this is just a trade off that is well worth it. The stinging is pain but that's all. Don't confuse it with your hairs dying, it's just dyeing. lol Seriously, you can look at the % of peroxide. For me the higher the better(12%) because it colors the hair fastest. Then i add some color to tone down the bleach. That can sting at times. Use moisturizer around the edges of your hair to stop the burning on the perimater.

Meds, like fin and dut are a risk, but they do work and if you go doing the surgery route you might need them even more, because some of that thinning hair on your crown won't survive the surgery. If you want some food for thought, why not get your DHT tested first. Meds can be dangerous to a minority of people so you have to be prepared to try them BEFORE the surgery, assess the benefits and/or adverse effects. That's the conventional way. There are guys like Biscuit, for example who have done pretty well, (last time I checked) avoiding drugs and going down the strip transplant route, but I would advise against it.

Doctor, Good discussion and good points IMO. Rarely these days, I actually learn two things that will definitely square me up coming into arguments/discussions in future. Namely, as you point out, a) Telegen hairs do not immediately shed, and many are available in the strip, to be used on op. day. (I do question your optimism about numbers, especially nowadays given that patients are encouraged to do scalp stretching..but who am I...?). It was interesting though, that another poster assumed cutters can see vacant follicles when they can't. Hopefully, that poster took note too. b) That the post-op shed, which is rapid and almost guaranteed (again your optimism impresses me, (see point #2 because saying it 'can' occur is somewhat of an understatement) but saying it is not a telegen shed but something else, which you term anagen arrest, must somehow acccount for something I've long wondered about; one which I've never seen satisfactorily answered, possibly due to my laziness, and this whether or not the 'clocks' in each follicle are reset to the their pre-op timelines. This suggests they are and partly explains why we get a rush of new hair 3-4 months post-op, then steady improvements, give or take a shed or two, for the next four or so months. Thanks for the info. now I gotta address point number 3, So we need drugs and we have to take this into account long-term, so much so that it might be more important than the FUE vs Strip debate I can't relate to your attempt to separate the two of these things more because the FUE/strip debate and the drug thing go hand in glove. The former is of course, in 2011, on forums like these, just a bore, a turn-off and it is just a politically (and economically) unpopular topic. So be it, but I keep digging and discovering. Anyway, the reason we need FUE is so we can retreat from the HT route when the drugs stop working or misfire. There is a chance they will work just fine for life and I think many strip punters, who start at NW3 or less, take that risk and enjoy the relatively lush results strip gives them for many years, but it is a risk. The other reason we need FUE is because drugs don't create miracles and if you are a NW4 plus, you might be better of with a short, buzz (illusion-of buzz) type HT. Unfortunately this route is rarely explores, because the appropriation of FUE as a 'small job' fix-it, ancillary to strip. Instead it should be 5 small jobs planned together and ahead of time.

Hair, just as all good attributes is good because loosing hair acts as a disqualifier for our natural selective instincts. Balding men regularly succeed with hot women, but their options are limited, they need to work - they need to "build something" Good looks, which includes an absence of disqualifiers (i.e. short) gives you an instant reset in every new scenario. Women glance and compute in a split second. Whether they "care", or "don't care" is immaterial. It's their reactions that count. If you are in the company of men with a head of hair you will be beaten everytime, because hair, just like height is a way a woman automatically qualifies you to her. She needs to know so that she can weigh up automatically and subconsciously what she would be willing to sacrifice to be with you. So if she has two seats to choose from on the bus, in a farction of a second to choose, she chooses "sit next to the hairy guy", unless she decides to "get the hairy guy's attention by sitting with the balding dude" one. So no hair = loose. Hairy guy gets in, balding guy never gets a chance to show his 'great adjustment to being balding' BUT...and here is where it gets interesting. If there is only one seat and she has to sit with both guys, then the balding dude has a chance to show his, 'Look how I don't care about losing my hair bravado' at the expense of the hairy guy, who can fall on his own sword. Because if he behaves like a douche, he instantly become ugly, and now look - step right up the balding prince) But if the hairy guy holds his nerve, and confidence being the thing that it is, percentage wise, he ought to, he gets on a roll, the balding guy will be in a dilemna quickly. Play the nice wing man and pump up his tires, or act aloof and think about calling Hasson and Wong.

1) Sorry to hear about that. Damn, if they don't help, I dunno what might? 2) When I was losing heavily from 18-20, my scalp was frequently greasy, pimply, itchy, dandruffy and warm in the the areas I was losing. It was demoralizing and inconvenient. I think their are good shampoos out there now, but I don't use them nowadays, nor am I up with it, but I did use one a few years ago that made me feel nice, and those keta shampoos are said to help, so give it a go. There are loads of threads about shampoos. 3) I don't wanna take responsibility for what u tell ur doc on that one buddy, but if I had any family history of prostate cancer I might think about taking early preventative action by getting my DHT tested at a young age so as to keep track of it as I aged. If my GP said, that is BS I might try another one, next time I had a bad cold and needed to visit one.

Micheal, such a shame isn't it? I have to almost agree, mostly for the wrong reasons. Docs don't bother trying to improve FUE, (or they limit their exposure to risk through such investment) because there just isn't the incentive, when people beleive, naively or conveniently (or both) that only strip gets the 'real work' done and FUE is purely abjuct. (good for small jobs) Fue is a pain in the ass for docs, and I don't blame them for 'appropriating' it "(It has it's place bla, bla", or even more cynical, "we let the patient decide") Perhaps, I would probably do the same with all the obedient consumers out there bragging about their scars being invisible only weeks or months after their transplants (their first transplants at that-many will have that scar re-visted). I don't know whether you read the post you reponded to, but I was alluding to the loss of telegen hair in strip, just one of three major factors overlooked by punters going under the knife. Apart from peripheral linear transection (the cut collatoral damge) it is of course the scar that is what balding men do not need, especially if they are in their twenties. I saw a beautiful Dr. Wong scar on another forum a couple of days ago. The guy had (foolishly IMO) buzzed in an attempt to match the density of recipreinto the -in-doldrums to the donor area. Whilst it was beautiful, it was not a kind of beauty the public eye will appreciate. That guy will be fighting for his life in twenty years to cover that thing, or he will be like me, recently resigned, to just letting it show. I never wanted to praise Armani, but they deserve credit for throwing away their scalpels and focusing on FUE. There is no doubt in my mind, that currently strip refelcts, in the current social-media, a better yield, but it need not be so, if patients and clinics are more honest and patients work out the kind of suitable and sustainable long-term plan to incorporate a number (say 5 or 6 surgeries for a NW5 28year old) of FUE. By sustainable I mean, giving the patient cover to retreat from the HT route throughout his life. By the way, dot scarring should not be aan issue 'in the right hands'

Dear Doc, so you say these figures are wrong because the hair stays in the follicle 'on its way out' and therefore the cutters can see them, well, 90% of them. Sounds fair enough, so I am happily corrected. but.....he said But Telegen lasts, say a hundred days. Hair that is shocked from a transplant falls out in just two to three weeks, whether it is actually transplanted or native. So what are the chances that 90% of telegen hairs are waiting patently on op day, especially when the patient has diligently been doing his scalp stretching exercises? Anyway, I am glad you pointed the out that telegen hairs don't necessarily vanish immediately. As for FUE being burdened with this problem, I don't think it's a fair comparison because an extractor would simply not see the vacant follicle. Now about the peripheral linear transection. Some docs say they don't kill any on their way. Would you be willing to put a figure on that too?

Oh..and I have no idea if you can just walk up for a blood test in your area (I think the rules differ) or if you need a referral from a general physician first.