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GabrielJose, I'm glad you posted that. It's a massive FUE and I - and many others - sincerely hope it grows well for you. We have seen a few posters recently post bigger FUEs on this site. A 3000 and now yours. Just a few weeks ago, Spex, put the onus on me personally to provide him with 30 grown out FUEs with big graft numbers during a discussion about FUE and how it is irrevocably destined for 'small jobs' an ancillary for strip. Very difficult on this site to stand up for FUE because no all-FUE clinics are represented. Worse, some of the biggest FUE clinics, in name and fame are banned from mention. That could all be for good reasons, but still, going against the grain around here isn't easy. I usually recommend a slow and steady approach to FUE because doctors get tired and prefer small sessions, but saying that, I've always thought there is no reason that big numbers cannot be achieved, when spread over a longer period of successive sessions. I've had poor, good and bad FUE myself and I never post pics or reveal my doctors and I won't until I am repaired, so I would be my worst enemy if my goal were to FUE. But still, it's great to see people not being swallowed by the 'conventional wisdom' of "FUE suits small requirements" philosophy. I only hope yours works out. no doubt, a lot of variables in FUE that come into play.

GabrielJose, I'm glad you posted that. It's a massive FUE and I - and many others - sincerely hope it grows well for you. We have seen a few posters recently post bigger FUEs on this site. A 3000 and now yours. Just a few weeks ago, Spex, put the onus on me personally to provide him with 30 grown out FUEs with big graft numbers during a discussion about FUE and how it is irrevocably destined for 'small jobs' an ancillary for strip. Very difficult on this site to stand up for FUE because no all-FUE clinics are represented. Worse, some of the biggest FUE clinics, in name and fame are banned from mention. That could all be for good reasons, but still, going against the grain around here is easy. I usually recommend a slow and steady approach to FUE because doctors get tired and prefer small sessions, but saying that, I've always thought there is no reason that big numbers cannot be achieved, when spread over a longer period. I've had poor, good and bad FUE myself and I never post pics or reveal my doctors and I won't until I am repaired, so I would be my worst enemy if my goal were to FUE. But still, it's great to see people not being swallowed by the 'conventional wisdom' of FUE suits small requirements philosophy. I only hope yours works out. no doubt, a lot of variables in FUE that come into play.

There are diets for testosterone, either for keeping it high or low, and food obviosuly effects hormones, just look at the websites for women prone to different kinds of breast cancer and the lists of foods and herbs they avoid, all in the name of keeping hormones in check. But you would hardly wanna be lowering testosterone for long if you wanna function properly. So i agree, just get on the propecia and eat healthier and strong..i.e. get protein. Here’s a quote from a doc, i just saw. I'm intrigued by food and its influence on hormones.. The estrogenic and progestogenic compounds in food may be of greater importance than direct effect of foods, herbs and spices effect on testosterone levels. Altering the testosterone to estrogen ratio can greatly influence anabolism in man. Essentially, this means the more estrogen, the less muscl

Not if you have some hair that is strategically planted in the empty parts. If you can get say about 30grft/cm I think tattoo is an excellent idea to supplement it - in theory!! But of course, in theory. Those guys in Minneapolis seem to encourage a hair plus tattoo 3D approach, but on the other hand, the guys at HIsHair clinic in the UK don't. They are only for the skinhead 2D look. I prefer the hair plus tattoo idea, because I'm white and I'm not David Beckham in looks or fame. But it is a very good point you raise, except that I thought I'd point out you can have hair and tattoo and you don't have to shave. and it makes NW6 and 7s a new opportunity, an entirely new equation for donor to bald zone ratios

All the stuff I read about diets and hair (apart from the BS that suggests healthy veganism will save your MPB shedding hair (and the world)) seems to be directed at keeping a high or consistent levels of testosterone, not reducing DHT, in order to create optimal muscle growth. These guys say starving yourself does reduce testosterone and this, I suppose we can safely assume, has an impact on DHT levels. If you are overweight and over thirty, they say estrogen is higher, and reducing it is a good thing. if you are on propecia then, I guess, you've altered the switches a bit anyway. Triggering a shed, when you are in the midst of the post-HT doldrums, especially if you are lucky enough to have held on to would-be-shock-loss type hair so far, wouldn't be ideal. So taking the minerals and vitamins (including zinc) a good thing. Just make sure you don't deprive yourself of food. Eat less, more frequently, if that is possible, rather than skipping meals. Standard stuff, I guess. BTW, you hardly look like a porker in your pic, but I'll take your word for it, when u say losing a few pounds is in order. Oh..edit, don't stop eating fat, if you want to maintain testosterone, they say at http://www.muscle-health-fitness.com/raising-testosterone-levels.html.

No, no, no - FUE leaves you a line of retreat. If you lose more hair and the HT illusion starts to get dicey, you CAN escape. You CAN buzz. It IS true. It is NOT a lie! Will you look good? Maybe no. Will you look like a freak? NO! And how much is that option worth to a guy in his 40s? Plenty. We simply have to disabuse ourselves of the rhetoric that gets fanned along by the reps and various well-meaning posters... 'Ah, essentially, they are both the same' 'Nothing's for free in life' 'You gotta make the sacrifice' 'It's all or nothing' This is misleading and wrong. Mind you, there are plenty of examples of bad FUE scarring we can wheel out to scare us just as there are terrible strip scars for us to see. But the latter is put down to bad doctors, the former is put down to that terrible acronym, F - U - E. Key point is that there is light and day contrast between the two. My donor is absolutely wrecked. Not a hair left on it I can use, from FUEs and strips. The FUE scarring represents no cosmetic dilemma for me. The strip scars, everything.

Yeah Guys, I agree that my words come over like 'harsh'. It's just not easy to - no I should say, it's too easy - to slide into the diplomatic groove and not offend anyone. I believe strip gets fast and solid results and for a young man, that's what you want. Even as an old man (48) I am impatient. Right now, I have entered the pigmentation world (with some hesitation) and already I am shocked, impatient and puzzled by it. But I really don't believe a strip scar helps anyone who is losing their hair. In the long run, it's a sentence. I have brilliant strip scars as well as pretty bad ones. They are all equally a problem cosmetically under a three guard. When I started in 1988, I was educated along the lines of, 'both strip and scalp flap reduction are excellent procedures and both have their place. It depends on the individual's needs'. Now we know where that went. FUE is still questionable. Strip is not. Go get yourself an ear-to-ear scar, take medications, look good for five years if you have enough coverage and then hope you don't want to quit meds. I won't deny the results of strip, but there is much to be said for the alternatives, including just shaving. The public is savvy these days and they know a strip scar when they see one. But as for the cost, I don't think they are that different. $7 for FUE (or less), $5 for strip. Remember, no all-FUE surgeons are represented here and we get some pretty narrow views about FUE propagated. I honestly feel that a young lad shouldn't get a strip scar, yet on the other hand, he will be over joyed with the results of a good strip in the short run.

My wispy would-be locks curl up in horror and dismay as this old cliche gets wheeled out again. I couldn't disagree more. It is so sad that this, in 2011 still a common, I concede, notion of 'conventional wisdom'. 1) You need a large treatment? Consider a SLOW and STEADY approach with FUE and KEEP the option to retreat from the world of HT meds as you age! 2) Never consider the word 'Efficiency' never, ever. It should not be in your vocabulary. 3) Do not believe that you will not notice a strip scar or care about it. 4) But do your research. Because while a lot of FUE is rapidly improving and yet, shadows and risks are everywhere. 5) By the way, your head isn't too bad with a short cut. Me thinks a buzz or shave in future is not out of the question. Saying that, you WILL look better with hair. It all boils down to the caveat of FUE being good, of course. If you think it is bogus, tell us why and what you've learned, and then shave and forget.

You're not kidding! But once you add classical music and have a few shills chime in, I think that can be forgiven. But I think the doc here does make some good points. And that must be one of the best strip scars ever to have been produced. What baffles me, after this nice presentation, where the hazards of strip, particularly successive strips are discussed, and the benefits of FUE calmly explained, is that you can scroll down youtube and see the same doc carving up a guys head with gusto in a strip procedure, and boy is he getting on with the job!

I totally agree! FUE mega sessions are risky! FUE is excruciatingly tiresome for a surgeon. No wonder they hate it! This adds up to FUE suits SMALL sessions. For whom? The clinics and the doctors. It is not a technical problem with FUE itself, it is the mode it is delivered. So we have the delivery format that produces the dilemma. Docs get tired and don't want exposure to risk. Techs aren't allowed by law to do much of the docs work in most states of the US (including extractions) There are dodgy machines. All kinds of nasty variables lurk in the world of FUE. But we must cut through it and get to the bottom of it. Else we will be at the mercy of these hackneyed generalizations. In 2000, 2000 grafts was considered a very big strip. 3000? Ridiculous to some. Risky. But clinic economics could adjust. More techs = bigger sessions. But FUE hits a ceiling very quickly, because more techs means either, extraction carnage or no more speed. Besides, what kind of sane person wants to sit crouched over your skull twisting a little tool, getting RSI, all day? When it comes to 10,000 I have no idea, which gets more grafts. I suspect strip. I suspect strip has better yield and can get more grafts in total. But I'm not really sure. I am sure of what I say, when I say a balding man doesn't need to be told he needs an ear-to-ear scar for life, locking him into the HT/meds road for life. Smal, slow and steady FUE is a real possibility, and plenty of grafts can be got. FUE candidate? Strip candidate? Nonsense!! We - I mean a virgin scalp - are ALL candidates for both - and the docs know it.

If only Dr. Feller decided to do 3000+ cases, and not tell his patients that FUE is only suited to small sessions, (and charge so much for FUE ) then you would have the documentation right before your eyes! By the way, I recommend telling the patients to do four sessions (taking the approach of Steve from BHR clinic) and staggering them over three years. I think Dr. Feller would produce absolutely stellar results. It might take time, but let's get the ball rolling. Meantime, we can say to all those pundits, 'Come on, prove it!!! Show me the results!! " My first HT surgeon used to say that when follicular unit transplantation came out. He'd yell, 'show me the density". We of course can look at clinics that have 3000+ results but we can't mention them. And..I might add, Spex, we need FUE only clinics to be members of the coalition, I'm sure you would agree. On a personal level, I don't blame Dr. Feller for doing FUE this way. I can see why docs - I would argue - appropriate it. 'It has it's place'. You can take a look at youtube, there are a few, but for the time being, strip has the power and can point the finger at FUE and say, 'So?where? Show me?" See. Or hair, I am baffled by your logic, although I most definitely agree with your assessment that clinics tell young patients to get strip first on account of further loss. Further loss points to meds, long term meds. If these meds hold out well and good. If they don't these young dudes might be in a bald spot of bother (sorry) in the coming years a buzz might be appropriate. If you get my drift.

Neograft was designed to extract and place hairs but it is- if my impression is not wrong - being used only as an extraction device. Donor thinning is not only possible it is desirable! An FUE donor zone which is excellently and undetectably 'thinned out' helps the illusion because the contrast between the native zone and the recipient zone is lessened. But I'm aware you didn't mean that, as you said, 'poison'. So the danger here is of course that it is arbitrarily thinned out, maybe in nasty patches, and this is a concern. Machines which extract really quickly like Neograft might tempt, the human element can get carried away. It is not a slur on the machine itself. the machine has enough of its own problems such as; a) convincing people that grafts don't get battered and dried out in it's tubes b) How it orientates a graft when it feeds it into the recipient slit c) How grafts' and their precious bulbs cannot be seen by the staff/doc d) If it only ends up as expensive vacuum machine, it is a waste of money I have been 'over-harvested' myself. I think extraction patterns are a science/art them selves and have improved since when I had it. I had an army of techs do the damage on me, and to be quite honest, the problem this presents is simply incomparable to the cosmetic dilemma I have with strip scars a dying crown and virtually no donor. And it is another reason a slow and steady FUE approach, i.e. six small sessions over say three to four years, is better than one. I might add, if FUE is really rubbish, and people like me really have all been sucked in, then it's a travesty - another for the HT industry to proudly wear - like reductions 70s and 80s. But this is NOT an excuse to say, 'Calm down, FUE is good for SMALL sessions" It is either rubbish or it is not!

seasons = sessions The notion that strip 'suits' big and FUE suits small HT requirements is contentious, and getting more contentious with every passing day, week and year that FUE gets better and docs and technicians get better at doing it. Still it is one of the reasons why strip is still in business, as doctors, reps and sales staff work to maintain the prevailing myth that a patient needing 3000 grafts should naturally choose strip, because strip does, 'the real heavy work' or the 'big jobs'. A slow and steady approach with FUE works just as well and leaves the patient with the possibility of quitting meds, hopping off the HT bandwagon later in life. An option not to be sniffed at. Now this does not contradict what Spex is saying here, because he can choose the option of saying he meant a small session equals one day 800 grafts instead of one day 8000. But it should be remembered that technically a big FUE job is possible if it spread over a number of days. More importantly, a number of small FUE jobs spread over a couple of years is just as good, probably better. With no scar stretching to worry about is an excellent idea IMO. The problem is that clinics and docs in particular usually prefer doing strip as the principal mode of business.

Would three sumo wrestlers strapped into a VW beetle get more bruises than a couple of skinny kids strapped into the other VW beetle in the same crash test or wrecking yard crane dump? I'm curious as to how you reach this conclusion, because I am frequently made aware that the cushion of fat around a follicle helps protect it, and that strip allows for more of this, and hence the strip follicle is more robust. Now, if we had an 0.8mm outer diameter punch, the cushion around the hair follicle of a fine haired patient will be much thicker, in absolute and relative terms, than a guy with super thick hair, who has much less fat left around the follicle. It's obvious that the graft must compress and twist and so with more space between the rotating outer rim and the hair, it would seem the other way around if anything. Fine straight hair, more cushion, more protection. Thick hair, higher risk of damage. Now you could argue that follicle bulb and hair shaft diameter are not directly correlated, but the punch size has become smaller and smaller in recent years, as small as possible, to accommodate an intact hair/bulb as a unit. The fine hair guy could do no worse, could he? If the follicles had absolutely no fat or tissue on them, then yes, a wee little bulb will be more fragile, but that is not what is happening here?

I don't think this should be a consideration. If you need 4000 grafts, you need 4000 grafts. Doing three small sessions to achieve 4000 grafts via FUE sounds good if you are prepared to wait, but... You will get 4000 grafts growing quickly with strip and you will feel better sooner if you let your hair grow out and give up the idea of buzzing your hair. You may find a new joy in growing out your new HT locks and if medications hold you may never look back. But with strip you must maintain your tolerance for maintaining a haircut that supports the illusion of volume alongside or even when/if hair loss progresses. Say, if your crown starts to thin in five to ten years, you may want to buzz. But a 4 guard to cover the strip scar will still look like a horse shoe. So that's something to think about. The yield is a legitimate question, but more an issue on the supply side. The Doc should steer you in the direction of strip, all things being equal, and then you are in a corner unless you go to an FUE only surgeon. But the whole deal about FUE for small, FUT for big is bogus technically from your side - the patients' side. It is a reality though in respect to docs and clinics. Docs don't wanna do big FUE. Fair enough. So you can do small FUE. So it's back to yield. Get the doc to convince your most skeptical side why his/her FUE will grow well, and are halfway to a scarless future with hair. Albeit, slowly and more expensively.

!! One body hair graft = 1/4 of a head hair graft if you are lucky!!! !! One nape hair graft= 1/2 of a head graft of hair!! !!One whisker graft = 2-3 head hair grafts!! This is all my opinion and I have no experience or sense what so ever!! So take it with a grain of salt. And I say under my breath, God protect me and this forum from Umar's shills!! I think Dr. Umar is great for what he does. But with 20000 grafts, you are really paying for less than 10000 head grafts. Why so? Think hairs, not grafts. Body hairs in particular, are usually singles and spend a much longer time in resting phase. They grow, wirey and thin (when they grow) and the best you can get with them is a kind of thinnish 'mesh' that does not create the illusion very well, because they don't 'behave' as head hair. Whisker hair, on the other hand is the opposite. It is strong, straight and bold, standing out like little statues in the desert, but blending in well enough with a jungle, and very good for disguising strip scars, if the patient grows the hair out a little. I dunno man. I would max out the head hair, then whiskers, then start body hair, in that order. And I would hope I wouldn't need to to the third option to be frank. If you like a short cut, consider Umar as a great doc and ask him to spread the hair flat on your head?? Just an idea. If you have the money to burn, then by all means, BHT but I'm a bit iffy on its effectiveness to actually make your noggin better to the extent it makes your bank account worse.

This isn't a pic, so sorry I'm not much help, but just a reminder that close up pics (and vids) are deceiving - especially those less than a foot away, which shows a comb gradually passing over the scar allowing the hair to shingle down. Here you don't see the effect of the uneven surface of the skin around the strip scar. You are simply too close. Try for pics, in vicious and kind lighting conditions, at least one foot away, both back and side, to see the effect. Sorry it's not much help.

My hunch is FUE plus fill in scar a bit (if Rahal is confident with yield) otherwise, God forbid, strip. First, I would ask you, 1) How do you normally wear your hair? Do you like your current hairstyle? Would you ever be thinking of buzzing your hair? 2) How is the state of your scar? would you be considering breaking it up a bit with FUE? -or is it something that doesn't really bother you? And to some extent, your hair style might be so that it doesn't figure in the bigger picture? 3) How is your scalp laxity? 4) How ready are you to follow the doctor's orders, both when a) he 'recommends' strip and b) when he gives you the post-op routine regarding exercise? If buzzing your hair is not on the horizon, and you already have an ear-to-ear smiley scar, never see yourself wanting a really short smooth cut, perhaps rolling the dice with strip again might not seem so bad, even though there is always a risk with scarring. Anything can happen. I hate strip personally, think it should be banned, but if ever there is a case for it, someone in your boat could be 'pardoned' if you know what I mean. That said, I'd be interested about what Rahal's opinion is on the yield of his FUE. Like all docs who do both procedures, he will prefer to do strip, why wouldn't he? But if he is confident on yield I would take him up on it, because FUE is such a breeze on you personally, compared to strip. And yes, you will ponder for months, each and everytime you roll your neck in the gym (and elsewhere) post-op strip. As you should. Furthermore, with FUE, you could pepper the scar with a few grafts too.

You didn't mention that the 'ditch' a kind of recessed valley that occurs along the scar line (unpredictable) is something that makes strip scars look worse than they really are because they add a shadow-effect so that the fall of the hair is altered along the strip line, accentuating the scarring. In general, people are waking up the idea that trichophytic closures are not the big deal they are made out to be. That was not always the case, when the 'T' word became the catch-word for the strip industry for a time when it was under assault from the first wave of FUE in the states. And it worked. People believed that with Tricho, they would be good. At the same time, the first FUE clinics started to produce patients with large diameter 'dots' and with marketing, strip maintained its supremacy on the basis of - unbelievable at is seemed - because of scarring (not yield). We had people like Dr. Feller warning us that FUE scars MORE than strip, and Jotronic posting pictures of terrible dot scars (with disclaimer, that they were 'bad cases') Scarring is unpredictable. My best scar, which is one of the best I have seen, and my worst scar, which was a disaster, come from the same HT doctor! Both non-tricho. Then I have had tricho too, and whilst 60% of the scar is pretty good, the remainder has stretched. And even in the good bit there is a definite 'gully' or along the line. The skin, up to 1cm above the line is raised then gradually sinks as it reaches the gully. At certain angles, the scar would not be visible, but the valley draws attention to the scar itself. Even tattooing can do nothing to hide this. It requires injection of a gel under the scar to flatten it out. This is required every few years if I want to buzz my head.

I know it looks pretty weak, but perhaps, for 1320 grafts, it may well be 'fully grown'. The pics we can see show a bright light shining on your forehead and as you know, hair transplants are just illusion and if the hair is too short, unless it is planted specifically for a short hair style, with a well positioned light, the illusion is totally destroyed. Perhaps in better light it looks better but not good enough. I think the doc misinformed you but I guess you signed a disclaimer, i agree with the other posters who said that getting your money back is usually impossible. What bugs me most, is that the clinic's can get away with saying stuff like, "completely natural result" knowing that if they end up in court they can say, 'thinning is a natural result' . Sucks to be where you are right now. You have a lot of options if your donor has only been taxed to the tune of 1320 grafts. Next step - make it a cool one. (easier said than done, but this board should help)

Medications? Currently looks pretty cool, but I know, it gets tiring and you're probably sick of getting your butt kicked by Justin Bieber types so naturally you want hair. For a short term fix a big strip job might do the trick, but for long term, If all stays the same or/and gradually deteriorates; I recommend a Buzz-type FUE for hairline and temple definition Small punches medication This need not require many grafts although estimations between clinics may dramatically vary. In the course of research you may contact clinics that do both strip and FUE and they will tell you to do strip. Ignore and move on. Dr. Deip? I saw a strip job on Youtube once, and I respect him for putting it up, but the knife went across the back of the guys head faster than the fillet guy's at the fish market But everything else he says re. FUE seems to make sense. (It's actually a very important reminder that no line cut across the head will leave hair unharmed, but ..)

Mnn, some impressive results in respect to camouflaging hair that is grown beyond the buzz mark and kudos for fighting the good fight. But very difficult to see videos of his where the hair is cut/buzzed to the exact same length in the same light conditions before AND after. Is this being pedantic? Yes, and no. Given the vitriol of his shills and the velvet hammer effect of the music, I say the latter. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of his scar work but just that I wanted to point out, your donor post-strip will never be as good as an FUE donor through planting FUE in it. ofhair1, Pretty much all scars look great at five weeks. I'm hoping yours stays that way for ever and with medication it may well be that it is never an issue.

This is HIGHLY disputed by some FUE docs. The more common explanation is that a hand punch allows the doctor to 'feel' around the graft. This too could be complete BS for all I know, but it is easy to see that a lighter punch, whilst more difficult to break the skin, would be more easily maneuvered.

Sorry to say this, but this is sheer folly. You can't just get strip and then think you'll be able to mask it with FUE so you can buzz like it were a FUE. (I assume best of both worlds is pointed at that possibility) I have never seen, in nearly ten years of research a satisfactory result like this and yet many have tried. Remember, if you get strip, 1) You may have to get further strips to 'keep up' with your loss and this will undo all the good work, expense and patience you exercised in getting the scar filled. In fact, most of us need multiple surgeries. 2) The scars aside from being unpredictable, change with time and maturing. Most docs will not even plant in an immature scar, and by the time they would, you'd be almost ready to cut it up again. (assummng you wouldn't do the unthinkable and actually create a new scar) 3) The density of the hair in the rump of the donor, is so good that even dense packing the scar ( and that is not recomended for yield by some doctors) will not match it. More likely, the course transplanted hairs and the unpredictable way in which they grow will make them stand out. If you intend to grow out the hair, then yes, planting in the scar helps, but remember point 1, you may have to cut it open again. As a starting strategy i think it's a poor choice if your mind set is to get the best of both worlds. But for a scarred up patient with some whiskers and/or head (peter pays paul) donor to spare, it can help.