scar5

1) Yes, absolutely a massive benefit, whether my hair is 2 inches or 2mm P.S. I know words are cheap and pics are deceptive but take this for what it is worth. Caveat: You MUST have some hair, esp. a definitive hair line and some hair 'back there' 2) Bleach it. It will be dryer and a rougher texture. You won't feature in a shampoo commercial but you will 90% fix that problem. If you don't want bleached hair, then tint the hair darker again.

Wylie, Thanks for your comments. I don't know much about SMP simply because as a consumer, most of us are not privy to the details due to the bluff of the SMP 'artists', their employers, the ink suppliers and the cosmetic ink industry in general, who are protecting their interests (Good on them, they wanna make a buck etc., bad luck for the vain victims or strip procedures wanting to cover their scars !!) But as for your question, you raise a very important one, and as usual, the SMP folks are doing their best to avoid telling us a definitive answer. When asked about color with the SOLE PURPOSE of establishing whether or not color is used or black is used (diluted) we are usually given vague nonsense like 'we use tones to match the hair color. I hope that helps. If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask" ha...what a joke!! If it weren't for so frustrating. So here is the deal as far as I can tell. 1) Permanent SMP is usually black. It is monochrome. It is diluted with a 'carrier' to be lighter or darker. I have seen some SMP inks advertised as browns, but I am yet to find any permanent SMP operators of the kind that have reps on these boards using brown. HIS clinic rep says they sometimes use brown, but usually their customers suit a black. (what a co-incidence) But the SMP reps will be evasive when asked about this. They don't wanna get the tag, that they use just black for various reasons. 2) Temporary SMP uses colors. I base this on the SMP I have seen, and on a comment by Jotronic (a regular and long time rep for Hasson and Wong and whilst clearly biased by his business interests is someone I would trust in matters like this.) He said Milena uses no black. The caveat is of course s that it might have changed. 3) Brown tattoo ink is infamous, according to my research, for being unstable as a color and thus, you see very, very few brown tattoos. Temporary can get away with it because it is only superficial, and thus shed before the brown turns blue. 4) You could choose brown, and if it goes blue you could laser it out, however brown tattoo ink may contain colors that do not respond to Q-switch lasers. In some cases, white colors, when hit with laser, actually turn black, according to what I've been told. (But once again, I do NOT trust ink people in general to tell me the truth about anything so beware). Black on the otherhand, can be lasered off. In my case, I have successfully lasered off black, some of which turned blue, but there was shock loss to my hair, that lasted three months. The hair regrew. 5) If your hair is brown, you may still benefit from black SMP. The key to avoiding blue might be depth. The deeper you go, the more light gets through and bounces between the particles of ink. The red light is filtered out leaving more blue, so don't get in too deep and use a light tone. SMP operators can adjust the tone of the black. At certain light and angles, it might look a shade dark, at others a shade light. 6)SMP has helped me immensely, so I won't bag teh industry too much, but as a consumer it is just hard going trying establish the facts. Good Luck.

I know you weren't trying to be smart!! Sorry for the inference. It was my dumb ass trying to be clever!! Anyway, I agree the pics are a bit misleading, but still I think this SMP looks impressive in so far as it is only a freshly minted job. I think it is going to be very difficult to show SMP at the one month, two month, three month points because the SMP offices won't have access to these pics and the stigma of SMP is so obvious that few people will want to post pics of their fake tattoo hair on line. However, we are starting to reveal more about SMP as time goes by and pretty soon the spiel about, 'we use; 1) Special tools 2) Special Inks 3) Special Techniques ' will be exposed for what it is, just marketing fluff and the SMP shops will have to prove something meaningful to us. (mind you they won't lose mush sleep either way$$$$$)

Don't be a wise ass!! lol In all my SMPs there have been significant change from the the freshly minted to the one month point. Day One The dots look larger. It looks more 3-dimensional. More defined, sharp, some parts look too defined. Days Thirty to Sixty The dots toward the surface have shed/bled away, so the underlying layer is left. The underlying layer; -looks less sharp and the tones are muted, more blueish-grey, less defined, more opaque. You lose the contrasts in both color and depth that give it that 3D look on day one. But!!! if you have some hair, you can give it texture and you are still OK.. OR if you have darker skin pigmentation the above "issues" aren't nearly as much of a problem. A good thing is that sometimes the operator seems to have dumped too much ink in a particular spot and that will soften. Remember that SMP is literally hit-and-miss. There is no telling the depth of your barrier between the epidermis and dermis UNTIL the ink actually starts going in, and then it still relies on the sharp reactions and response of the operator to observe and adjust accordingly. After adjusting, they have to stay sharp because this depth varies throughout the scalp which might require further adjustments. If they just 'plough on' regardless, you will have 'clouds' ..literally darker areas mixed with lighter ones and my guess is you will be (should be) concerned about that. Needless to say, you have to trust them, with all the uncertainty that comes with it.

This shows what a little hair can do. The guy has got thinned minaturizing hair and yet with the ink it looks great. So if you can replicate that density with FUE - barely 20-25/cm - at flat angles there is no reason a NW6 or even a NW7 could not get significant benefits from HT surgery. 1000-1500 grafts would go a long, long way. Great hairline, very soft. Mirko, What is your opinion about color and permanent SMP. Black only?

My advice is to educate yourself, draw a hairline. Erase, draw it again and again until you get so good at drawing it, you can draw it under the gaze of the staff in the consult room under time pressure and at short notice. Educate yourself about the tones they use at the respective clinic and then specify where you want each tone to go. That might give you a fighting chance. Still, expect to be steamrolled by the 'flow' of the clinic.

..and they don't. Yet to see an SMP tech/doc change ink tones mid-procedure to create a layered effect. The sales hype says yes, it happens. The reality is chose a color, read- ONE color, and get to work.

You won't do meds and you started losing at 18, and you are 31. These three point to 'no way' for HT in the old scheme of things, but the advent of FUE changes the equation. Obviously those clinics that specialise in strip will say don't bother with an HT - except the very worst - so you'll have to dig in the right areas for information. I think you will benefit from an FUE, but you might not get full coverage. Even so a little hair might go a long way. One of the benefits of FUE is that it should evenly thin out your donor zone so that you won't get as much of a contrast with the hairless areas. With hair texture you could add some SMP to the FUE. I agree that SMP hairlines look ridiculous and you need that FUE to combine with it. You will however lose bragging (of being the guy who wasn't vain - no small thing IMO) rights by doing a procedure. You are, I assume, OK with that. Can I ask, why no meds?

Native hair. Just forward of the ear. It hasn't all grown back, but it is happening . I'd still be cautious. The doc who did the laser was adamant that the hair would be killed. That doc normally doesn't deal with SMP, she deals with woman's aesthetic things.

Update In case any of our readers are interested. The hair which I assumed was killed by the laser has mysteriously re-appeared (s mo post-laser). There were two perfectly empty holes for almost three months and now, they're reappeared. Conclusion; The laser caused shockloss. The hair went into a forced state of telogen thanks to the trauma of the laser. So there. And marie4U. Thanks. That's hilarious, I think I'll give it another shot - why not cause more shock loss?

I've had frontal graft removal using two different techniques. 1) A reduction (also known as a brow lift - basically a strip procedure on the front hair line) 2) Individual plug extraction using a series of punches, some 2mm. This came in three varieties, one which requires a suture - the larger diameter extractions, one which healed untouched, on their own as it were 3) ones which were filled with body hair extractions. I am not suggesting you need to go down this route because the only reason you would need to is if the hairs are standing up at bizarre angles, but just say they were, then I would say you need to be aware of at least five things; 1) The skin in these areas has entirely different healing characteristics than it does in the traditional harvesting zone. Depending on the skill of the surgeon and a little luck, you can get away with murder with a linear excision. That said I wouldn't recommend it unless you had a veritable wall of pine trees 5mm thick straight across your forehead. I don't think that applies to you yet, so let's move on. 2) Extracted hairs have a high casualty rate in terms of re-cycling them. The scar tissue around them often makes them awkward to pull out. 3) Plug extractions leave scars and it is possible that you could have a slightly mottled effect as white blotches (scar) mingle with, pinks (empty Norwood areas), yellows whatever your native skin tone is, as well as the translucent tones of blue/black hue that transplanted hair growing under the surface emits. (Minaturising hair gives off very little) 4) Docs loathe doing it. They will prefer to plant around the hair instead. This is in their best interests short. medium and long term, but it definitely might not be in YOUR interests, so watch out. Remember misangled hair cannot be taken care of by planting around it at the correct angles, it only exasperates the problem and you will only do more damage if you are forced to take them out through collateral damage to the grafts supposedly planted to disguise them 5) If docs remove grafts, they can be (IMHO) unnecessarily cautious - once again patient and clinic agenda mismatch - leaving acres of skin between extraction holes and incisions for new replants. That all said you can remove the grafts, you can rebuild the hairline, but remember the collateral damage you will cause and the docs' attitudes to it. I dare to say, you are still in a good position if meds are holding out.

I agree with Shampoo, you should take an extra toilet seat but I don"t think it should be white as you may get anxious pre-op. On another note, the thing I have felt in need of was a telephone number to give you a point-of-contact post op should you do some of the dumb things I've done, the most common being a knock to the head which popped out a couple of grafts. Some docs don't provide the follow-up wash and inspection and some do. Generally though, if it is FUE you will feel remarkably fine considering you have thousands of skin punctures in your scalp. With strip too, despite the horrible feeling you get from the scar itself, you still feel fine. (albeit with pain killers to help) In fact, I've often felt better post-op than pre-op due to the adrenaline and the relief.

1. Genetics 2. Genes 3. Inherited disposition to bald 4. DNA 5. Fear of Propecia 6. Man boobs (intolerance of Propecia) 7. Diminishing response to Propecia 8. Self-disgust (God's punishment) 9. Bargain with God (I'll show "em I'm not ashamed) 10.Bargain with devil. (I am bad- ASS and you better know it)

What's questions are you referring to?

You are in "no-mans land" at the moment (time-line wise), my reading is you are looking for a bit of feedback and support. You are in a good place to get support here. In your case here, I would have been appalled beyond words just a few years back that they hacked your head open - a virgin scalp none the less - for the sake of so few grafts. But as an observer of this industry since 1988 you just get used to it, the casualty rate is so high. The good thing is that it looks like a short stumpy scar. These are far less a problem psychologically and technically later on; they don't look like traditional HT scars curving up over the ears. You might get away with it and you have tons of donor left Well, the final consultation is always such a dangerous place to be. All the research you have done, all the emails, the calls, the late-night doubts, the scenarios you have played out in your head dozens of times just preparing for the various possible problems and nosey antagonists that might come your way. Finally, in the very last consultation you hear the doctor use the "bait-and-switch" tactic that HT docs/clinics are famous for. In your case, it looks like they got you into a strip frame of mind and watered it down by throwing in the FUE with it. Well done doc! and rep!! Take a bow!! Just as a warning to others; In the final consultation *and Im not even sure our guy went down this way, be aware of the following (and more) Likely list of bait-and-switch tactics docs use at the last curtain call; 1) I won't be dong your procedure today. Dr. (fill-in blank) will do it. He is excellent. 2) No, the extractions will be performed by the techs today. They are better than me! (said with smile and exclamation mark eyebrows. 3) After taking a good look at your situation, I think strip will be a better choice in the long run 4) No, I won't touch the crown today. You'll likely lose a lot of hair if we do. (Pateint, "But you said shock loss is not usually permanent") Would you like pizza? Or curry? How about curry for lunch?

The easiest way to understand is to perform this simple (and impossible) experiment; a) Get a thoroughly confident individual with a NW 4 wispy cut. I mean absolutely thoroughly self-confident and self-assured but with thin wispy hair b) Pay him $500 and ask him to walk through the mall and back, stopping and looking at various shops, browsing here and there. c) Film him and the surrounding people paying attention to him d) After the first walk, buzz his hair to zero guard and repeat e) Finally repeat with nice hat or well groomed fashionable and thoroughly realistic wig f) Compare women paying attention to him. I keep saying it, it doesn't matter what women 'think' it is how they instinctively react, that counts. Hair loss is a disqualifier period. You can still make progress but it takes tactics that require skill. Likewise, it doesn't matter what men 'think' of hair transplants. It is how they react instinctively that matters. And how do they react? Ans: they 'smell blood' Once again you can get away with murder, but you have to use special tactics.

We get the 'moving rotisserie' viewpoint in the before shots (exposing the baldness) and a static and flattering side view in the afters.(disguising the baldness) Short hort hair HTs always look better from the side view. So can't really judge much from this vid. Donor looks decent though and it is good teh doc was mixing punch sizes. One-size-punch HTs are of course more economical. Congrats for avoiding a strip scar.

I agree with the sentiments posted by David and Tommy, in as far as the motivation to initially participate and continue to participate with honesty and genuine humility must be manifested by something much wider and more than raw profit. I have learnt loads from these guys, Jotronic and Spanker types, and I think they a help a great deal of people. A lot of it was factual and a lot was the kind of prudently measured subjective stuff you only get from years of wisdom and a willingness to offer that wisdom free of charge to others. I have also seen how myths have been peddled and propagated along the journey when it suits the business end of things and I have no problem with that. (Lol, until I do) but anyway, I think objectors don't live long anyway. Let the show roll on.

I suggest some SMP on the crown. You have enough hair to be able to use SMP plus hair at length to grand effect.

Well, why are they here? They are employed to sell, period. God bless them. I think the key is to pick your way through the good stuff they say, the bad stuff they reveal and infer from the bits they leave out altogether. I used to wonder if there should be a part of the board where reps would not be allowed to post, but then I figured it would be hypocritical. We are all bargaining with the devil to an extent. Without the commercial incentive, there wouldn't be a single light bulb burning at HTN.

SMP comes in black, which is watered down to grey/gray straight out of the bottle. It suits you if you go grey, because the ink is always grey. In fact it make you look a hell of a lot greyer if you still have hair and choose to do permanent SMP. Temporary SMP can be brown but it fades so quickly, is weakened by Minox, the sun, swimming pools and basically is so superficial it should really be much, much cheaper than it is. Peoples fears about permanent artificially boost the price of temporary. On the other hand some permanent clinics have lowered the bar so badly that you wonder that the only reason they are not getting their arses sued off the planet is because their customers are just too ashamed to tell the world they printed their head for vanity. BTW be warned, laser that removes SMP kills hair.

You can have an HT very soon after SMP, but not the other way around. Once you have an HT you must wait 6-12 months (depending on which surgeon you ask) to put SMP on your scalp in areas where you received grafts or had grafts extracted. The skin cells are unstable during the healing. You won't damage the HT, but the ink will dissolve into the still moving cells and the SMP could get messy. Of course, having a map of how much hair your have will help you plan the SMP, so getting the HT first seems logical, but then again, if you are reasonably confident in th surgeons assessment you could do SMP first, get the HT a month later and be all done. I am five months post-op now and it is with all my patience I am holding back the urge to get SMP. I already know where I will get it, have 100% planned the SMP and more HT growth won't change my plans. Still the docs warning is just stopping me

The industry 'gold standard' for best do-it-yourself-at-home body hair transplant was set by this guy a couple of years back. Darkmanhyk, Don't sweat the post, or regret it, no big deal. As for Belgium docs, they're great, but they do cost a bit more than the Turkey and India options. I said, 'dear' which is not a word used in Nth America I guess. Meant ti say 'expensive'

I think you are brave or had a rush of blood to the head bringing this up. I can empathize because I have often posted in that frame of mind. The fact is that all those techs performing FUE with cheap instruments or trademakd automated punches are doing it behind the shield of he industry I.e. a registered doctor. You are of course going to get completely destroyed suggesting that we do it ourselves. I have already suggested SMP could be done that way, bu I have already 'jumped the shark' so not much to lose. ( I have already critisized strip surgery which makes me an outcast) Anyway, the punches are cheap as chips, the anaesthesia would not freak you, and the actual technique, well, I have had so many techs pull out grafts on my head, I know the variation in technique is huge. I suppose you will retract and get sensible, and I agree hat you should. But cudos for bringing it up. Call an FUE surgeon in Turkey, Germany, India or Belgium ( the last is very dear, so be aware) and the US and Canada are soo expensive it is not worth it. I'm sure you will get results, just on the basis of reading your post. Keep the attitude I say. Expect nothing less than what you already know (percent profit and risk minimalization) from clinics and play hard ball, and you might get what you came looking for. Great post!

1) lol...point form to lessen ramble effect 2) Has it? I'm not sure about that. What are the odds? Scar 5 thinks strip grafts do much better on average. 3) This is a radical idea for some of us, but I believe that the smart balding man of 2014 thinks better than the corresponding one of 2004. 2014 man - Give me 4000FUE grafts, propecia, and SMP and God help me. 2004 man - Give me 7000strip grafts, propecia, n ear-to-ear strip scar and God help me. 4) Can any of us? Nice rhetoric though.