scar5

Thanks. I don't know about it being a nice reply. But I did not delete that post - unless I woke up in the middle of the night, possessed by the devil and deleted it in my sleep! So what's with that? Mnnn. I wonder. Movin...on.

I think hairloss got me stitched up for 32 years. I regret not only the life I have wasted of my own, but of all the people I have dragged along with me. Loved ones, women I could have settled with and raised a family with, only for them to hang on to me in vain hope that my own personal vanity would subside. Only for them to reach the age they cannot conceive. Can anything be worse, other than unforeseen accidents or disease? As for being proactive, well I decided to be, and the internet gave me hope I could. Looking back, if only I had not clutched at straws because that is what I did, and I had varying success along the way. I agree hairloss keeps coming. Surgeons can't be controlled. Once you 'go in' so to speak, you throw away the keys and hope. I hope that as many people as possible don't let it take over their lives, by making good decisions, and having the poise and sense to prioritize so that they don't waste their own and other peoples's lives.

This makes no sense to me. Here are the facts as I know them. 1) Iron oxides are far more color stable than oragnics 2) Iron oxides are used extensively in permanent make-up- including in Europe- for this very reason. In fact most of it is inorganic. (Color Body tattoos use lots of organic) 3) iron oxides are generally safe. (some people maybe allergic) I've always assumed this, Milena gets away with organics (and all the baloney about them being harmless and 'natural') because they literally disappear because the particles are small enough to slip through the cell walls and get flushed out of the body. (hence temporary) If Milena increased particle size and extended the depth to 1mm-1.2mm and into the dermal layer, we would see serious discoloration.

Obviously, you don't need to and in many cases, people demanding that of you 'tell us who' just reinforce the notion that their participation in the discussion is for themselves, not to help you. (I know that is harsh, but can't help feeling that) If you went to a reputable place you will damage their reputation by telling us, and where does that leave you = less bargaining power, 'damaged goods tag' vs the feeling of support you got by bargaining with the devil and telling us. On the otherhand, I've seen this go down before; 1) Guy posts comments about 'poor result' 2) Posters demand he 'tells them who dunnit' 3) Guy disappears 4) Another guy says, 'Why should he tell the world?' 5) Guy comes back saying, 'Sorry, I've been busy...yeah, well, it was doctor X' ..and we all live happily ever after. So what ever you do, I think you will have options here. a) It will fade to an extent or entirely depending on the depth and ink b) It can be lasered off (shockloss to hair may result) c) It can be 'touched up' Doctors are generally more honest about SMP than SMP clinics on their own. Why? - because a doctor's livelihood doesn't depend on SMP. However docs are not beneath experimenting on you either. In a sense they need to, to further their own skills and range. But if you are desperate, things can get risky. I'm not saying this happened in your case. What we know is that the doc says he/she doesn't know why your result was sub-par. If the doc is privy to the details of your case, or if the doc indeed performed your case, you would hope that you can learn something constructive. I suggest it might improve as it settles. You complain of black dots. That is a common in the first six weeks and, in my experience, disappears. You complain of empty patches (a complaint that manifests later) and blotchiness (something that does not entirely go away - despite assurances) My only guess is that two things happened and you have probably already heard/thought of these. 1) The operator was heavy handed on some areas of your scalp due to poor technique. 2) Variations in your epidermal layer depth of your scalp were more pronounced and not accounted for. I think a good operator could assess what has happened and make improvements. The prior result itself is excellent evidence for subsequent procedures, even if you go back to the same person (and I understand that you might not) Good luck

Wow, even more puzzling. Worth seeking second opinions, but with no meds, maybe it's not worth it. Perhaps you can be bald and proud and get all the cudos that goes along with 'not caring' about vain things and having 'nothing to hide'.

I suspect that Mick gave you the 'red light' only AFTER you expressed your negative feelings towards medications. A medication like Fin has become so normalized over the past decade that not taking it is almost a red flag for a good HT prognosis if the patient is under 40. If I were a rep with a well known and trusted HT clinic and a prospective patient said they would be unwilling to take meds, it would be at least a warning. That is my theory. Maybe it's whack and maybe Mick would advise against even after 12 successful and trouble free months of fin. I don't doubt that a lot of that minaturizing hair on top will be permanently lost once those incision needles and blades shred the area, and so you need the strength even more so. How is the prospect of shaving?

Technical transparency is certainly welcome (such as ingredients, depth) and then the - to use your phrase - 'reputable clinics', can concentrate on showing off their aesthetic sense and their artistic talents. However, I think we are a way off that stage yet. We still hear all kinds of nonsense like 'special ink', 'special tools' and 'special techniques'. I think competitive pressure is not conducive to transparency. What I know so far about the cosmetic ink industry suggests to me that SMP clinics might prefer to stay tight lipped if they can get away with it. However, if they can get some commercial momentum by giving away some technical information, I say three cheers for that!

SMP is still a baby with all the innocence of a devil 10,000 years old. The prices have to fall, but they were so high thanks to the desperation of so many balding and strip scar recipients. I think there will be a much more accommodating price regime in five years but for now, I think your best bet is to negotiate willingly with the provider.

Bleach doesn't hurt your growth. It damages the hair in a good way. It makes it thicker by cracking the outer layers of the hair. It diffuses light as it absorbs and reflects it according to the tiny cracks and scars the bleach damage does, giving you more apparent volume and sparing your scalp the spotlight as well as reducing the color contrast. All in all, bleach is a friend not a foe. As for shockloss, it is nothing to do with the surgeon's skills. True, a hack will transect good hairs, damaging them or killing them, but that is transection , not shockloss. Shockloss is non-specific trauma to the area, such that is caused by a knife, a punch, or a a blade being inserted to a good enough depth to remove or accommodate hair bearing tissue. There is no gentle way of doing it, no way for a good doc to caress the follicle out or in. And shockloss is under reported as you would expect.

Are you willing to bleach your hair? I say this because a transplant to your temples and hairline will NEVER, in my humble and distorted opinion (IMHADO) achieve a smooth transition to your minaturized zones behind. It will be blatant, exposed and nasty. Furthermore, you will kill through shockloss, a lot of weak hair which will further highlight the contrast between the course transplanted hairs and the soft feather weight hairs behind. However, enter a bottle of bleach and suddenly you will be more that passable. It is as simple as that IMO. You won't take fin. Fair enough, but I'm sorry to say, by focusing on the front lines and neglecting the interior, the partisans behind the lines will do their work and they will smell blood through the trauma of a transplant. Of course, I recommend FIN and a bottle of bleach and a series of FUE transplants after 12 months of FIN.

I think you will get a permanent benefit from "permanent" SMP in your scars. It will help you wear your hair much shorter. It has certainly helped me immensely. You will need a few goes to get it right. Ideally a session or series of initial sessions, followed by a wait of a few months followed by a touch up.

Oh..and who told you so? How does it happen? I think natural density should be in the equation. Cut your transplanted hair to 3mm, 6mm, 9mm, 12mm, 1 inch, 2 inches, 3 inches. Now ask which gives more natural density? We know about the 'sweet spot' (check Jotronic's posts) but really, which procedure gives you latitude (spelling?) to suit conditions from jungle to desert? I think it is FUE. Strip requires length. When strip grows out, it looks glorious, but if your crown is fading it looks 'Old man' IMO.

It looks like about 3000-3500 grafts from here. The cysts make graft survival difficult? And that explains the poor harvest? If the 'suspect' grafts are isolated and deemed worthy of extraction, and only then, under microscope, deemed worthy of planting, then it should read X000 grafts extracted which resulted in X000 healthy grafts and X000 deemed compromised and binned and a further X000 planted regardless in the hope they might add some volume. Otherwise it looks like a shroud, meh..the cysts, so you know... Anyway, it is a poor result for 9000 grafts, but he definitely looks better front on. And another one for all the years we've had to listen to "FUE is for small jobs!" PS. And perfectly honest pics

Well, that sums it up. If you want a thin crown and 'volume' that you can comb over it, then why not get strip and reap the benefits of good growth that strip gives.. Grow it out, add products, stay out of the rain etc. I always think guys don't want that scenario, that they should want to hide their thin crown by carefully disguising the 'gap' and that means an extremely short back. I don't doubt Dr. Bisanga does a lot of FUE because he is asked to, not because he believes FUE is better for a particular patient. He is known as an excellent FUE practitioner and people come to him specifically for it. Even so, I think he would prefer strip in a large proportion of the cases he does FUE in. As for why NW6 guys should get FUE, it is simply because I think you should box your weight. Try for an even smooth look rather than a significant clump of hair. No doubt the mega strips of H&W show the world what hair transplants can do better than any other, but I am more about what a guy can do for himself. 4000 grafts and a clean cut may mean looking better than 7000 and a 'boof' . But that's just me. Docs don't give a damn about FUE IMO, They do it because it is demanded of them. We need to think about hair as a part of the means to an end, rather than an end in itself.

l ll be the devils advocate, just for arguments sake..and it is eadt because of the prevailing view that high norwoods and strip scars are good partners. Let me ask you this- why do you think Dr. Bisanga does so many FUE procedures these days.? Of course one reason is he is so good, and that fue may pay well provided thete are enough grafts on the statement, but that aside, which of these answers suits the question I ask? a) he does becsuse he feels fue is better than strip 3 times out of four the recipient area outcome b)because the strip scar will be bad three times out of four accordng to his prognosis c) he does because the patients ask for it from him so even if he thinks strip is better he says, 'customer comes first' Im willing to bet it is demand driven.. Dr. B is a great and well respected surgeon, but he could essily make thst hin scar of yours worse, -longer, wider, more buckled at the edges just by opening it up again. And fir what? You arent going to get global dense coverage unless u use a combover and products. Sure, strip will give u more and possibly better usable grafts, but shouldnt your priority be ability to cut your hair with confidence and wear your hair at any short-shortish length whilst reducing exposure to your bald crown. If you like the comb back over abalding crown look, then i agree strip is better. But Im kinda thinking u would rather disguise the crown emptiness or sparseness and the bst way is short ceaser cut or buzz.

That says it all for me..and that you are high on the Norwood scale. Avoid strip. Why open up a can of worms with the strip scar, if it is barely noticeable? You are lucky you got away with a thin scar. Keep it that way. If you are so high on the NW scale, why try to be a hair gorilla? I would go for FUE and strategic placement and angulation. All those docs, including Bisanga, will push you to strip. What for? You can't have enough to cover the crown. That is my opinion. Bisanga is a strip doc with FUE, not an FUE doc with strip when it comes to numbers, I mean graft numbers.

Here then is an example of brown used in a permanent SMP procedure. This would be the first posted here that we can confirm uses brown tones AND is 'permanent' .( using inverted commas because all SMP fades and changes)

Sounds like you never heard about SMP until the day you did it. Tell me, if you wouldn't mind, 1) what led you to choose this particular clinic, operator? 2) did you ask them about color, depth of needle penetration and what did they say? 3) when it comes to hairline, were you happy to get a smooth and even 'arc' shape across your forehead? 4) the price is fair, whatever that means, you sound very satisfied. Thank u for posting, but why so cheap? HIS are charging 3000 pounds for three rounds. Why so cheap?

Strip and male pattern baldness are only 'fair weather friends" in the long term, and a young man losing his hair would want options for his future with or without meds, so if market forces do their thing, FUE will wipe strip out, except there is another half of the human race called woman, and here I think is where strip will keep going and there will be some spill over for men. For the longest time strip have been able to scare people away from FUE by pointing to FUE scarring. That excuse is wearing away, day by day. Many a strip patient will boast of their 'no worries' with the strip scar issue, but their follicles will not listen and time will tell. FUE started in 1989 and was shut out as an evil and sinister con for ten years, then appropriated and boxed into an inconsequential ancillary to strip for another ten. Now The cat is truly out of the box and it ain't going back in. I think woman will keep the demand for strip strong.

OK, without having checked your pics I'll just give you my opinion Shockloss Yes, it will improve. Post-op is dreadful, especially that 'doldrums period' from day 30 to about 100. You have lost the interest, you are numb, and you look s%&t, and shock loss is a real bummer. You know HT clinics and their reps, until recently, said things to their clients like, 'Shock loss only affects a minority"!! lol (Now, with information so readily available they have to 'fess up more) Grafts falling in the future Yes, a chance but not likely FUE into scar, Yes, give it a try. It has helped me in some areas of my scars immensely. In other areas it has failed. Conclusion: pay money, wait, hope and if it failed, it was a wise risk. BUT don't expect FUE to blend in your scars completely, even partially.It will help if it works, that is a fact. Color of the scar is partially determined by the light it is exposed to and the amount of 'shade' provided by surrounding hairs. Would FUE into the scar change the color of the scar tissue that has formed? I doubt it, but perhaps vascular changes might put more pink into it. I would ask an HT clinic that one. Consider SMP too. IMO, but choose wisely. NHI? HIS is conservative, which is great, but many of their clients request successive touch ups because their initial session fades. Don't trust immediate post-procedure pics of SMP. The situation changes drastically after six weeks, usually in the direction of fade. After six months, we start to see spread in some cases which have not faded. So fading might not be bad. Scars suck up a lot of ink. Ink just gets sucked becomes blotchy or just disappears more compared to virgin skin. Your story is one of thousands, tens of thousands who get told strip is better and sign up for a strip scar. Too bad. But let the new life start and make you a better man, even if you are already good.

Superb! I love this statement. I've never heard of 'hair malice' before, but it's in my top-ten now, estranged cousin of 'hair-greed' . And so true for a lot of us who may, from an outsider's view, be better off with grown out, albeit thin or patchy hair, but instead, out of a sense of justice, for all the investment we have put in, accept nothing less than rocking hair or no hair at all.

My advice is to get the mindset right at this stage. The other stuff will change with time. You have to prepare for the 'doldrums' (Month 1- 3) and I would say 'compromise' is the best word for it. Be neither the wierdo or reckless. Experiment with different lengths and products to see how short you can get away with it for. If you have only mild recession and a decent shock of hair, you may be able to sail through it just looking a bit thinner, but shockloss and scar widening may force you to adapt in other ways - so be prepared to compromise.

From what I can tell; They are one of the most established. They do black, diluted to different 'tones' They do subtle work, but sometimes, I ask, is that enough for scar work? I don't know. (Mind you, bot much cuts it because you need loads of ink to disguise a scar.) They are like a chain store and the operator you get could be experienced or not. They have a solid protocol that includes waiting a period of time (used to be a week or two) between treatments. (Which I think is good) They have improved their hairlines But they still have many unnatural pasty white guys with painted-on heads as customers They run their own forum and don't tolerate much negativity there. If you think your result is wonderful, post. If you don't, contact them privately to 'sort it out'. That is why you don't get a lot of negativity IMO. They are associated with a laser operator who can remove or soften their ink work. They recommend shaving your head. 8but you don't have too if you have hair in NW1-2-3 areas. They cost a fair bit. I've seen a shill or two around here for them, but that shouldn't count too much. I'd look at what they can do but choose one of their longest established clinics.

You know, i wouldn't mark SMP so badly. SMP has done wonders for me and it has filled up some barren ares nicely. My only gripe is the poor transition to skin tone in the hairline and the grey effect it has, due to the black ink.

1) Don't recommend any company in particular. I've been to three SMP companies and one laser company. 2) Permanent, in all cases, however the SMP has faded somewhat anyway (I don't mind either, it's now better IMO) 3) Black was the color for the second and third b/c it was from a companies that does permanent. the first was a disaster and they used browns, but I forced the operator to do dots instead of letting her use her instinctual urge to do shading. (She was an eyebrow pigmentation specialist) In respect to adding density, they won't do anything other than what they always do. It is like buying a T-shirt that says 'Free Size' on the label, they just go ahead like robots on a production line irrespective if you want to grow your hair. They might tell you different but even so, they have one received technique, which they learned and refined and that is what they will give you. Whether or not you should go for the added density is more about your hair than the technique of the SMP operator.