Kevin does not like oral minoxidil

[TheGreatPretender]

1 hour ago, Tiago Martins said:

But are you already on Finasteride?

Been on it for 3 years. 

[Youth_Again]

Oral minoxidil is impossible to source in Canada atm. 

Everything on backorder, no generic available.

anyone has experience buying from a website from Thailand or elsewhere ?

I have read some reviews about removed link but if anyone has other websites they used in the past and I could trust that would be very helpful 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Melvin- Moderator

[RTC]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:50 PM, FUEtile said:

This guys a clown downplays finasteride side effects, but but but stay away from the big bad minoxidil 

Exactly - everybody who has Finasteride side effects are imagining it, but minoxidil on the other hand is so dangerous

[BaldDude]

 

[Melvin- Admin]

 

[GoliGoliGoli]

24 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

 

Kevin's issue with the study of 1404 patients that Dr Sergio cites around the 1 minute mark is that of those 1404 patients, all had been using minoxidil for over 3 months. So despite the study showing that only 1.7% of patients stopped treatment due to adverse side effects, it's not including people who may have experienced them in the first 90 days and discontinued use. 90 days is a relatively long time to use a drug so it does make some sense that if you are going to get adverse side effects from LDOM that it would happen within 90 days... 

Not really taking a side either way. It's an interesting discussion and I would love if there was some sort of "debate" between someone like Kevin and Dr Sergio. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli

[Melvin- Admin]

8 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Kevin's issue with the study of 1404 patients that Dr Sergio cites around the 1 minute mark is that of those 1404 patients, all had been using minoxidil for over 3 months. So despite the study showing that only 1.7% of patients stopped treatment due to adverse side effects, it's not including people who may have experienced them in the first 90 days and discontinued use. 90 days is a relatively long time to use a drug so it does make some sense that if you are going to get adverse side effects from LDOM that it would happen within 90 days... 

Not really taking a side either way. It's an interesting discussion and I would love if there was some sort of "debate" between someone like Kevin and Dr Sergio. 

Where in the study does it say that? 

 

I’m interpreting that the patients were treated for at least 3 months to observe the safety of LDOM. Not that the patients took LDOM for 3 months prior to monitoring them in the study. Let me confirm with Dr. Vaño. I would love to get his official response.

[Melvin- Admin]

I just sent him a message.

[hairman22]

On 6/26/2023 at 12:47 AM, BaldBobby said:

 

im using 2.5mg with no issues.

I think for most people  they should be ok on that dose but they would need to have a healthy heart & not have low blood pressure

But look at 5mg it is like 4 times more minoxidil that goes into the bloodstream. May be best for results but I am  reluctant to go to 5mg a day.

[GoliGoliGoli]

29 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Where in the study does it say that? 

 

I’m interpreting that the patients were treated for at least 3 months to observe the safety of LDOM. Not that the patients took LDOM for 3 months prior to monitoring them in the study. Let me confirm with Dr. Vaño. I would love to get his official response.

Ya I'm not sure if your interpretation of the text or Kevin's is correct. Very interested to see Dr Sergio's response!

 

 

[ItIsTime]

reviewing a study by looking at the abstract alone is probably not the best to make a complete decision

A review of the entire article details would help to answer most of the questions, unfortunately the full text of the article isn't readily available

From the abstract alone it's really hard to tell but probably:

1) There is a "low" risk of systemic side effects - but there's no control group to compare to take with a grain of salt

2) We can only conclude from 90days, most people will be on the medication lifelong, so a 6 month, 1 year timeline would be nice to see. These antihypertensive meds would look at risk of adverse outcomes or major cardiac events at 30 / 60 / 90 days, but also more long term. Likewise some medication side effects don't occur within the first 90 days or even a year - sometimes they can be triggered by other factors later on in life.

3) The abstract said 15% had hypertrichosis that's not a huge amount to have positive results for LDOM

4) the LDOM was titrated in 1065 patients allowing the analysis of 2469 cases. There's a bit of a scientific flaw in this logic - in simple terms 1065 patients will almost always be 1065 cases, even if the dose is titrated from 2.5mg to 5mg in the same person, that's not a "new case" it's the same person/patient receiving the drug so that's misleading. 

Seeing the entire article (and appendix) however will shed light on a lot of those things

In short the abstract is great and a useful snippet of information for the multitudes using oral minoxidil. By itself though it's not enough.

P.S. I am using LDOM for about 8 months now

 

[hairman22]

Basically does the study include patients who stopped using the drug before 3 months is the question we need to know.

If not then it seems nobody stopped using the drug before 3 months which would be very strange

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, hairman22 said:

Basically does the study include patients who stopped using the drug before 3 months is the question we need to know.

If not then it seems nobody stopped using the drug before 3 months which would be very strange

I’ve messaged Dr. Vaño. Maybe I’ll ask him and Dr. Munoz to do another podcast together. We could field a Q&A regarding the study.

[hairman22]

8 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’ve messaged Dr. Vaño. Maybe I’ll ask him and Dr. Munoz to do another podcast together. We could field a Q&A regarding the study.

That would be great Melvin. Did you manage to get in contact with Dr Zarev? It would be a very interesting listen. He is very transparent not a surgeon who will just tell you want you want to hear which is great.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, hairman22 said:

That would be great Melvin. Did you manage to get in contact with Dr Zarev? It would be a very interesting listen. He is very transparent not a surgeon who will just tell you want you want to hear which is great.

Yes, I spoke to him a week or two ago. We’ve scheduled a podcast in August.

[Heisenberg]

I've just consulted Dr Basinga and his colleague, and they seem to think you are more likely going to get serious sides with oral finasteride. I can't help but feel reluctant to take the stuff, though, not least because the side effects may be hard to spot, and there is always that risk. 

[Heisenberg]

I may try taking 2.5mg every other day, as that is probably safest, and better than nothing.

[Melvin- Admin]

I confirmed with Dr. Vaño that all side effects were included in the study, and that patients were monitored for 3 months, not given it 3 months prior. More studies are being conducted as we speak. It should be noted that there is no financial bias. They do not sell this drug, its compounded at pharmacies. There’s no reason to withhold truth or information.

[hairman22]

On 6/30/2023 at 4:29 PM, Heisenberg said:

I've just consulted Dr Basinga and his colleague, and they seem to think you are more likely going to get serious sides with oral finasteride. I can't help but feel reluctant to take the stuff, though, not least because the side effects may be hard to spot, and there is always that risk. 

Does Dr Bisanga advice any blood work or check your heart health?

I take OM no issues but it is best to take an individual approach and screen people before to see if suitable

[LeveledUp]

This forum got a mention in this latest video.

Curious about his theory about topical dosage directly to hair follicles vs oral dosage in the blood stream not enough for some to reach follicles.

 

kinda feel that’s my issue since switching my follicles wre getting more via topical compared to taking oral.

Still dislike his delivery.

[Heisenberg]

48 minutes ago, hairman22 said:

Does Dr Bisanga advice any blood work or check your heart health?

I take OM no issues but it is best to take an individual approach and screen people before to see if suitable

He was accompanied by another clinician, who said that I should try taking it, but stop taking it if I sense any heart palpitations. He said that as I did not have any existing cardiovascular problems, it is unlikely that I will run into any serious problems, and said that even paracetamol etc. can cause side effects.

I'm not a big fan of topical solutions, as the ingredients/chemicals can cause inflammation, especially if they contain alcohol or propylene glycol. Also, I'm not sure rubbing the affected area constantly would be doing it any favours too, and that may indeed cause frictional alopecia. For those reasons, I am probably going to give oral minoxidil a go, but may only take it every other day.

[Heisenberg]

Definitely stop taking the drug if you experience this:

 

[Heisenberg]

8 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I confirmed with Dr. Vaño that all side effects were included in the study, and that patients were monitored for 3 months, not given it 3 months prior. More studies are being conducted as we speak. It should be noted that there is no financial bias. They do not sell this drug, its compounded at pharmacies. There’s no reason to withhold truth or information.

How long have you been using the drug for, Melvin? Have you experienced no side effects at all? Are you having your cardiovascular system monitored by a clinician?

[LeveledUp]

I was on 2.5mg for 7 months now 5MG (2x 2.5mg in the AM) for last month or so.

I've had no sides at all...But I've also not had any results and lost everything I had grown on Topical🤷‍♂️

Even body hair cant say I've noticed a marked difference, maybe arms a bit hairier not sure but might just be me overanalyzing nothing noticeable anyway.
Funny how medication works differently for everybody, I feel like only way I'll get results is on a higher dose at this rate...Which obviously not going to do.

But will give 5mg another few weeks to see if there's any signs of growth or thickening.

I think in my case Topical is just a 100x more effective for me but im holding out hoping Oral does its thing, as I get lazy with topical and the flaking was annoying at times, especially if I didnt wash my hair daily.

---

For Oral I think I guess the question is the long term outlook in terms of health and sides, but I think a lot of people will be okay as long as theyre sensible and listen to their body.

Definitely dont think Oral should be a 1st line treatment and people should use Topical/Foam Minoxidil first rather then jumping straight to oral.
Unless they are absolutely anti on committing to applying topical on their scalp daily or have severe allergies.

And in an ideal world should be under the supervision of a professional and have regular check ups.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by LeveledUp

[TheDarkHour]

I started off with 1.25mg on my first two months and experienced no side effects, not even hypertrichosis. Upped my dosage to 2.5mg over the last two months and once every couple of days I'll get very slight chest pain for a few seconds but aside from that I haven't experienced any other side effects. That being said I haven't experienced any regrowth either but will continue taking it at this dose along with using the topical version for maintenance.