Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 1, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, LeveledUp said: I was on 2.5mg for 7 months now 5MG (2x 2.5mg in the AM) for last month or so. I've had no sides at all...But I've also not had any results and lost everything I had grown on Topical🤷♂️ Even body hair cant say I've noticed a marked difference, maybe arms a bit hairier not sure but might just be me overanalyzing nothing noticeable anyway. Funny how medication works differently for everybody, I feel like only way I'll get results is on a higher dose at this rate...Which obviously not going to do. But will give 5mg another few weeks to see if there's any signs of growth or thickening. I think in my case Topical is just a 100x more effective for me but im holding out hoping Oral does its thing, as I get lazy with topical and the flaking was annoying at times, especially if I didnt wash my hair daily. --- For Oral I think I guess the question is the long term outlook in terms of health and sides, but I think a lot of people will be okay as long as theyre sensible and listen to their body. Definitely dont think Oral should be a 1st line treatment and people should use Topical/Foam Minoxidil first rather then jumping straight to oral. Unless they are absolutely anti on committing to applying topical on their scalp daily or have severe allergies. And in an ideal world should be under the supervision of a professional and have regular check ups. That's interesting. Hair transplant surgeons seem to think that oral minoxidil is the gold standard (even though not approved by the FDA for hair loss), but it seems, in your case, it did next to nothing. Are you sure you are not having a shed? If you responded well to topical minoxidil, I would stick to that, as you are in the lucky group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 1, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, TheDarkHour said: I started off with 1.25mg on my first two months and experienced no side effects, not even hypertrichosis. Upped my dosage to 2.5mg over the last two months and once every couple of days I'll get very slight chest pain for a few seconds but aside from that I haven't experienced any other side effects. That being said I haven't experienced any regrowth either but will continue taking it at this dose along with using the topical version for maintenance. I would take the chest pain very seriously. The last thing you want is to end up with a damaged heart etc. Edited July 1, 2023 by Heisenberg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LeveledUp Posted July 1, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, TheDarkHour said: I started off with 1.25mg on my first two months and experienced no side effects, not even hypertrichosis. Upped my dosage to 2.5mg over the last two months and once every couple of days I'll get very slight chest pain for a few seconds but aside from that I haven't experienced any other side effects. That being said I haven't experienced any regrowth either but will continue taking it at this dose along with using the topical version for maintenance. Keep an eye on the chest pain mate not worth it if it causes you issues, but hopefully 2.5MG does the trick. I think my plan by late August/September is to go back to topical if 5MG doesn't make any difference. I think 9/10 months is more than enough time to know if its working or will be effective. Just annoying as topical whilst inconvenient at times, gave me noticeable results within say 4 months. Good video below with Dr. Bevin Bhoyrul of Sinclair Dermatology in Australia. Not watched it in a few weeks, but recall he mentioned he has a patient on 7.25mg or something similar, with no issues. Me personally? Im maxing out at 5mg. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 1, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 1, 2023 1 minute ago, LeveledUp said: Keep an eye on the chest pain mate not worth it if it causes you issues, but hopefully 2.5MG does the trick. I think my plan by late August/September is to go back to topical if 5MG doesn't make any difference. I think 9/10 months is more than enough time to know if its working or will be effective. Just annoying as topical whilst inconvenient at times, gave me noticeable results within say 4 months. Good video below with Dr. Bevin Bhoyrul of Sinclair Dermatology in Australia. Not watched it in a few weeks, but recall he mentioned he has a patient on 7.25mg or something similar, with no issues. Me personally? Im maxing out at 5mg. Indeed. What topical minoxidil product did you use, by the way? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member LeveledUp Posted July 1, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Heisenberg said: That's interesting. Hair transplant surgeons seem to think that oral minoxidil is the gold standard (even though not approved by the FDA for hair loss), but it seems, in your case, it did next to nothing. Are you sure you are not having a shed? If you responded well to topical minoxidil, I would stick to that, as you are in the lucky group. Yeah I definitely dont think its a gold standard. Can it be very effective? Of course we've seen people with great results. But its not 100% effective which I've seen some people claim. I feel like we're getting more of a truer picture now. Although not a representative sample, I'm seeing reports of experiences like mine on Reddit with people saying Oral Minoxidil hasn't done anything for them even after 12 months Well I've been off topical since October last year, I was ready to switch back months ago but I was so aboard the oral hype I begrudgingly decided to hold out longer. 5MG is the last ditch attempt but yeah definitely I was a responder to topical and will likely be going back very soon after my vacation. Shame as I thought I'd be enjoying decent density but I had better density last year before I quit. Moral of the story - If its not broken dont try fix it I'll just have to not be lazy and apply 1x per day and stay on top with washing my hair daily to deal with the flakes. And I have switched btween Kirkland Minoxidil and Foligain Low Alcohol 5% Minoxidil. I bought 3 Months of Kirkland a few months back as I was going to quit oral. So I'll likely use that again then go to Foligain with reduced alcohol to help reduce any flaking or irritation. Edited July 1, 2023 by LeveledUp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 1, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, LeveledUp said: Yeah I definitely dont think its a gold standard. Can it be very effective? Of course we've seen people with great results. But its not 100% effective which I've seen some people claim. I feel like we're getting more of a truer picture now. Although not a representative sample, I'm seeing reports of experiences like mine on Reddit with people saying Oral Minoxidil hasn't done anything for them even after 12 months Well I've been off topical since October last year, I was ready to switch back months ago but I was so aboard the oral hype I begrudgingly decided to hold out longer. 5MG is the last ditch attempt but yeah definitely I was a responder to topical and will likely be going back very soon after my vacation. Shame as I thought I'd be enjoying decent density but I had better density last year before I quit. Moral of the story - If its not broken dont try fix it I'll just have to not be lazy and apply 1x per day and stay on top with washing my hair daily to deal with the flakes. And I have switched btween Kirkland Minoxidil and Foligain Low Alcohol 5% Minoxidil. I bought 3 Months of Kirkland a few months back as I was going to quit oral. So I'll likely use that again then go to Foligain with reduced alcohol to help reduce any flaking or irritation. I think clinicians tend to prescribe oral minoxidil because of the sulfotransferase enzyme issue. It seems, though, that oral minoxidil isn't necessarily going to resolve that problem. Both those products you mention contain alcohol, so be careful of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted July 1, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said: I confirmed with Dr. Vaño that all side effects were included in the study, and that patients were monitored for 3 months, not given it 3 months prior. More studies are being conducted as we speak. It should be noted that there is no financial bias. They do not sell this drug, its compounded at pharmacies. There’s no reason to withhold truth or information. I'm still pretty confused tbh. What exactly does Dr Vano mean by "patients were monitored for 3 months not given it 3 months prior"? In Kevin's most recent video at 17:40 there is a screen shot of the text from the study and the wording is: "The mean duration of treatment was 7.9 months with a range of 3-79 months". The quote isn't in full context but why is the range duration of treatment 3-79 months? Doesn't that suggest that patients enrolled in the study all had been on oral minoxidil for 3 months at the time of the study began since otherwise the range would be 0-79 months? Would be good to hear Dr Vano's full explanation. Edited July 2, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldDude Posted July 2, 2023 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Heisenberg said: I would take the chest pain very seriously. The last thing you want is to end up with a damaged heart etc. Yes, heart health > having hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Viney Posted July 2, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) On 7/2/2023 at 9:07 AM, LeveledUp said: Keep an eye on the chest pain mate not worth it if it causes you issues, but hopefully 2.5MG does the trick. I think my plan by late August/September is to go back to topical if 5MG doesn't make any difference. I think 9/10 months is more than enough time to know if its working or will be effective. Just annoying as topical whilst inconvenient at times, gave me noticeable results within say 4 months. Good video below with Dr. Bevin Bhoyrul of Sinclair Dermatology in Australia. Not watched it in a few weeks, but recall he mentioned he has a patient on 7.25mg or something similar, with no issues. Me personally? Im maxing out at 5mg. I've heard of a patient recently of Sinclair's clinic who said they had worked their way up to taking 15mg Minoxidil Daily over the space of a few years and they feel fine. The patient is an inactive user of this forum and sent this to me in PM when I queried them on something I saw in their post history. I stumbled on that podcast above a few weeks ago and ended up listening to the whole thing, Dr Bhoyrul is a huge advocate for hairloss drugs, in particular oral/sublingual min and oral fin/dut. I can verify the anecdote he gives when answering the donor density question at 1:29:51 to 1:36:38 in that video since I'm the patient he's talking about. Edited July 3, 2023 by Viney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 On 7/1/2023 at 11:49 PM, TheDarkHour said: I started off with 1.25mg on my first two months and experienced no side effects, not even hypertrichosis. Upped my dosage to 2.5mg over the last two months and once every couple of days I'll get very slight chest pain for a few seconds but aside from that I haven't experienced any other side effects. That being said I haven't experienced any regrowth either but will continue taking it at this dose along with using the topical version for maintenance. The chest pain may be a symptom of pericardial effusion: https://patient.info/doctor/pericardial-effusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 "We also witnessed a young and previously healthy female patient who developed, within weeks of treatment, a pericardial effusion at a dosage of oral minoxidil 1.25 mg for the treatment of female androgenetic alopecia. The patient complained of shortness of breath, discomfort while breathing in the supine position, chest pain, lightheadedness, and swelling in the legs. The patient assessment revealed pitting edema involving the lower limbs, and the ultrasound scans showed fluid collections in the pericardium." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9678755/ She was on the lowest possible dose too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member TheDarkHour Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 It seems very minor at the moment but if it does get worse I might drop down to 1.25mg. Only happens once every couple of days for a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 Not sure it is worth risking your health for small gains, if any, in hair density. At the moment, even though I have ordered some oral minoxidil, I am pretty reluctant to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 minute ago, TheDarkHour said: It seems very minor at the moment but if it does get worse I might drop down to 1.25mg. Only happens once every couple of days for a few seconds. I would get it checked out. I think you may still have issues with 1.25mg, as that is the dose that that unfortunate lady was on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheDarkHour said: It seems very minor at the moment but if it does get worse I might drop down to 1.25mg. Only happens once every couple of days for a few seconds. How long have you been on the drug for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member TheDarkHour Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Heisenberg said: How long have you been on the drug for? 3 and a half months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheDarkHour said: 3 and a half months. I see. I would have a chat to your GP about that. Better safe than sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 It causes periorbital edema too, which may cause this, and it may not be reversible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member TheDarkHour Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 I didn't get any sort of edema. Though I'm definitely not going to up the dosage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 Just now, TheDarkHour said: I didn't get any sort of edema. Though I'm definitely not going to up the dosage. Let us know how you get on. No harm in having a chat with your GP or a cardiologist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted July 3, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 Is there any evidence that oral is better than topical? As in Kevin's most recent video, it does seem logical that saturating the hair follicle with min would be superior than taking orally? I get that it's more convenient to take orally, but I'm not at all sold that it produces better results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 27 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said: Is there any evidence that oral is better than topical? As in Kevin's most recent video, it does seem logical that saturating the hair follicle with min would be superior than taking orally? I get that it's more convenient to take orally, but I'm not at all sold that it produces better results. I think why hair surgeons recommend the oral version is because of the alcohol issue (that can lead to inflammation and hyperkeratosis etc.) and the sulfotransferase enzyme issue, but it seems the oral version can cause some really nasty side effects. Battling hair loss is such a bloody nightmare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted July 3, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 12 minutes ago, Heisenberg said: I think why hair surgeons recommend the oral version is because of the alcohol issue (that can lead to inflammation and hyperkeratosis etc.) and the sulfotransferase enzyme issue, but it seems the oral version can cause some really nasty side effects. Battling hair loss is such a bloody nightmare... It really is... I guess this is the cost of trying to play God! In Kevin's most recent oral min video he says he isn't convinced that oral bypasses the sulfotransferase issue but who knows maybe he is wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Heisenberg Posted July 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said: It really is... I guess this is the cost of trying to play God! In Kevin's most recent oral min video he says he isn't convinced that oral bypasses the sulfotransferase issue but who knows maybe he is wrong. Indeed. Also seems a bit like playing Russian roulette with one's health and wellbeing. He could well be right. I suppose it could depend on the individual. The side effects depend on the individual too. As noted in that one study, someone developed a serious heart condition after only a few weeks of taking an extremely low dose. One wonders if she ever fully recovered. Of course, you could end up with serious health problems, only to find that oral minoxidil wasn't effective for you, and only to have embarked on a fools errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member RTC Posted July 3, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted July 3, 2023 who cares what that moron thinks? He thinks people who experience finasteride side effects are making it up, but has a totally different tune when it comes to Minoxidil. Total idiot. Hattingen September 2023 - Punchouts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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