Temporal peaks design

[Fue3361]

4 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Wow, great results!

Will try it ASAP, mine are and always were very sparse and light:

I put a drop on each eyebrow and rubbed it in well.  And I just remembered!  I micro-needled them occasionally too!  But that was painful!

[Sitries1]

On 1/8/2023 at 5:06 PM, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Thanks! It's wishful thinking tbh, I'm norwood 1.5-2 at 30 yo, fortunately I have no thinning and very good hair overall. Hairline has been the same since I was 24-25 yo. I never had prominent temples to being with. My main interest is temporal peaks and eyebrows (which are and always were very sparse and would greatly benefit from a transplant).

I think good temporal peaks are crucial for a good hairline, despite risking and having "hair greediness". For example, check this edit:

His hairline "looks" much higher than it actually is without his very prominent temples. Now imagine him with sparse eyebrows on top of that...

Indeed the number of grafts and it's limited supply is a big factor. I'm mostly thinking about the shape of the temporal peaks here (read my post above).

 

Are you saying the modified picture is what you prefer?? I think the original picture looks WAY better.......

The temporal points must suit the face and not just be square for the sake of being Square.  

[NegativeNorwood]

6 minutes ago, Sitries1 said:

Are you saying the modified picture is what you prefer?? I think the original picture looks WAY better.......

The temporal points must suit the face and not just be square for the sake of being Square.  

 

I prefer the first picture, the one with the prominent temples. The second one (edited) looks much worse in comparison.

That man has an amazing hairline and temples, and still retains that hairline at 40+ yo...some people are very lucky I guess

 

It's actually very interesting that his hairline is not low per se, it is proportional to his other facial thirds. The very prominent temples give the "illusion" of a low hairline.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, Sitries1 said:

Are you saying the modified picture is what you prefer?? I think the original picture looks WAY better.......

The temporal points must suit the face and not just be square for the sake of being Square.  

Square temples are mostly seen in afro patients. If you’re Caucasian trying to get square temples it’s not going to look natural . 

Different ethnicities exhibit different hairlines and temples. That’s why afro hair is a specialty. 

Afro hairline and temples. You see afro temple points go laterally downward. The hairline is usually 1-2 cm lower. 

 

Caucasian hairline and temples. The temple’s come outward and the hairline is naturally higher. The same goes for females. Caucasian females have naturally higher hairlines as well.

 

It doesn’t look good when a Caucasian gets a hairline that’s for an afro haired patient. It looks unnatural. Always stick with what is natural to you. 

[NegativeNorwood]

2 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Square temples are mostly seen in afro patients. If you’re Caucasian trying to get square temples it’s not going to look natural . 

Different ethnicities exhibit different hairlines and temples. That’s why afro hair is a specialty. 

Afro hairline and temples. You see afro temple points go laterally downward. The hairline is usually 1-2 cm lower. 

 

Caucasian hairline and temples. The temple’s come outward and the hairline is naturally higher. The same goes for females. Caucasian females have naturally higher hairlines as well.

 

It doesn’t look good when a Caucasian gets a hairline that’s for an afro haired patient. It looks unnatural. Always stick with what is natural to you. 

 

Agree 100% with this.

Still, I was just wondering about the differences in design of most temple points work in caucasian people. Usually they end up being much more triangular shaped (or "dorito shaped"), like ie this:

To me, it looks very different to this (and both have the same ethnicity):

 

I understand it requires more grafts and is a more aggresive choice, but haven't seen this observation commented elsewhere other than for the need of using more grafts.

 @Fue3361 ended up with a hairline very similar to that second man, Thiago Bianco truly did an amazing job and has a great aesthetic eye IMO.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

24 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Agree 100% with this.

Still, I was just wondering about the differences in design of most temple points work in caucasian people. Usually they end up being much more triangular shaped (or "dorito shaped"), like ie this:

To me, it looks very different to this (and both have the same ethnicity):

 

I understand it requires more grafts and is a more aggresive choice, but haven't seen this observation commented elsewhere other than for the need of using more grafts.

 @Fue3361 ended up with a hairline very similar to that second man, Thiago Bianco truly did an amazing job and has a great aesthetic eye IMO.

 

To me these temples look very similar in shape. The difference in my opinion is the hair length, If the top patient had longer hair it would look very similar to the bottom picture. FUE3661 has temples that are angled a bit more perpendicular. It's all subjective, some may prefer the sharper triangular peaks like Brad Pitt, which frame his face differently. In the end, its best to show your surgeon your hair before you went bald and stick to what was natural to you.

[NegativeNorwood]

6 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

To me this temples look very similar in shape. The difference in my opinion is the hair length, If the top patient had longer hair it would look very similar to the bottom picture. FUE3661 has temples that are angled a bit more perpendicular. It's all subjective, some may prefer the sharper triangular peaks like Brad Pitt, which frame his face differently. In the end, its best to show your surgeon your hair before you went bald and stick to what was natural to you.

 

Mmm I think you may be right, the hair length may play a big role in the perception of his temples. Still, his are still more prominent, reaching the eyebrows in side profile.

Don't agree with your last sentence, I want more prominent temples than the ones I was born with (more temple "creation" than "recreation"). Of course, within the realms of logic and with naturalness in mind, nothing alien-esque.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[Sitries1]

39 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Square temples are mostly seen in afro patients. If you’re Caucasian trying to get square temples it’s not going to look natural . 

This is exactly what my surgeon told me when I asked about the possibility of squaring up my temples slightly. I'm happy with how they turned and glad I listened to his advice.

[NikosHair]

I think it was the first video where Dr Sethi uses the angle of the patients nose as a guide to the angle of the TP's.

Following the same logic applied to an afro patient you would expect flatter TP's to compliment their features.

I agree hair length plays an important role in TP's.

Very short hair accentuates the angle, while longer hair blurs the line and creates a more rounded appearance.

Additionally, factor in the density of the hairs. 

Remember also the examples of the sharper more angular TP's may be the result of the barber creating the requested shape.

[NARMAK]

On 1/9/2023 at 4:16 PM, Fue3361 said:

Consider a small drop of minoxidil on your eyebrows every day.  Within 6 months they can double+ in density.  It’s insanely easy and effective.

Believe me when i say, the biggest worry i would have with that is accidentally getting hair on the outer part of the brows almost like hyper trichosis. That said, properly applied and carefully, i was considering using it myself on the very outer parts of my own eyebrows. Although blessed generally with thickness in shape and density on the inner to middle parts, towards the outer it begins to lose a bit of density. I don't want to grow the size of the brows but increasing the density of that area would be amazing. 

I think what's really funny is that OP used Francisco Lachowski as one og the examples in the OP and when i went for my HT, that's actually one of the hairline designs i also used for reference with Dr Das. However, and i cannot stress this enough to people. Your head shape and bone structures what determines sometimes how your hairline ends up looking sometimes a lot more than the design would have you realise and why some people can actually get away with having a better look visually for less grafts. 

That said, temple points ALWAYS need two things. One is sufficient density but with a properly natural and feathered appearance using the right calibre of hair at the closest angles near to the skin. Second is the aesthetic choice of design. 

[NegativeNorwood]

54 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Believe me when i say, the biggest worry i would have with that is accidentally getting hair on the outer part of the brows almost like hyper trichosis. That said, properly applied and carefully, i was considering using it myself on the very outer parts of my own eyebrows. Although blessed generally with thickness in shape and density on the inner to middle parts, towards the outer it begins to lose a bit of density. I don't want to grow the size of the brows but increasing the density of that area would be amazing. 

I think what's really funny is that OP used Francisco Lachowski as one og the examples in the OP and when i went for my HT, that's actually one of the hairline designs i also used for reference with Dr Das. However, and i cannot stress this enough to people. Your head shape and bone structures what determines sometimes how your hairline ends up looking sometimes a lot more than the design would have you realise and why some people can actually get away with having a better look visually for less grafts. 

That said, temple points ALWAYS need two things. One is sufficient density but with a properly natural and feathered appearance using the right calibre of hair at the closest angles near to the skin. Second is the aesthetic choice of design. 

 

Glad to see you posting here, I've been binge reading your thread lately. Amazing journey.

Francisco Lachowski's hairline is amazing, that man won the lottery face and hair wise. 

Regarding bone structure and head shape influencing hairline aesthetics, that's quite true. I've investigated that a lot and concluded it's mostly because of facial proportions and forehead slope:

 

As a rule of thumb, bitemporal width should be 85-90% of the bizygomatic width (the width of the cheekbones) for the best aesthetics. However, what if someone's cheekbones are too wide? Then he could would benefit from higher bitemporal width because it merges well with the bigonial width (the jaw width), which is not the outlier in this fictional scenario. 

Also noticed that people with straighter foreheads usually have more prominent temporal peaks on average. This morph changes lots of things, but ignore them and just look at the temporal peaks, which are unchanged. They "look" more prominent due to the straight forehead, but they aren't:

Francisco Lachowski has average width cheekbones and not a very sloped forehead, so the prominent temples naturally look great on him.

Someone with ie very wide cheekbones and a very sloped forehead could get his cheekbones reduced and his forehead augmented before having the hair transplant to accomodate the new desired hairline with temples more prominent than ever. You know what they say, if there's a will, there's a way...(not saying it should be done in all cases, but it could be done, it's a real possibility).

Food for thought tbh, sorry for the long rambling.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[NARMAK]

17 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Glad to see you posting here, I've been binge reading your thread lately. Amazing journey.

Francisco Lachowski's hairline is amazing, that man won the lottery face and hair wise. 

Regarding bone structure and head shape influencing hairline aesthetics, that's quite true. I've investigated that a lot and concluded it's mostly because of facial proportions and forehead slope:

 

As a rule of thumb, bitemporal width should be 85-90% of the bizygomatic width (the width of the cheekbones) for the best aesthetics. However, what if someone's cheekbones are too wide? Then he could would benefit from higher bitemporal width because it merges well with the bigonial width (the jaw width), which is not the outlier in this fictional scenario. 

Also noticed that people with straighter foreheads usually have more prominent temporal peaks on average. This morph changes lots of things, but ignore them and just look at the temporal peaks, which are unchanged. They "look" more prominent due to the straight forehead, but they aren't:

Francisco Lachowski has average width cheekbones and not a very sloped forehead, so the prominent temples naturally look great on him.

Someone with ie very wide cheekbones and a very sloped forehead could get his cheekbones reduced and his forehead augmented before having the hair transplant to accomodate the new desired hairline with temples more prominent than ever. You know what they say, if there's a will, there's a way...(not saying it should be done in all cases, but it could be done, it's a real possibility).

Food for thought tbh, sorry for the long rambling.

 

 

No rambling at all, loved how you infused a more scientific and maths based approach to the design discussion just there and thanks for reading my journey. 

In the first picture of David Gandy, you have his original face and aesthetically the hairline fits that face really well, but the 2nd photo morphs his facial features significantly so its not a completely 1:1 comparison which is why it looks almost like a completely different person. The forehead, nose and chin all change making it seem like a different person that's dressed in the same clothes trying to do the same pose.

That's why you have to be careful when using photoshop morphs imo. 

Temple point design wise, talking from personal experience when choosing it, i didn't want it completely vertical which i didn't think would aesthetically fit but i also didn't want to have them as acute as Eugenix usually tended to design them so i tried to do a LOT of research on the aesthetic choice but i always would take my pictures i used to get my consultation and edit the temple point designs in an almost MS paint fashion on my phone to try determine what was best for me. I used Francisco Lachowski and Sean O'Pry as reference points as well as Jake Gylenhaal to tweak to myself. 

I think i'm very happy with the aesthetic design i chose but i would have in hindsight tweaked the right temple point to match the left and as things stand, i definitely feel like i would need a 2nd HT to get to the level of density and aesthetic refinement i would want. I'd like to dense pack the temple points more as well as the frontal hairline and tweak the design ever so slightly to match the left as mentioned and just create a slightly more feathered look a mm or so below where the hair HT was done with higher density. 

I think ultimately what a lot of individuals want to do is try to keep their damn hair in the first place. The saying "Prevention is better than the cure" is particularly poignant when it comes to hair loss. I'm probably sounding greedy with things, but i genuinely wish i started Finasteride around 18-21 and preserved my hair even more at the front and the 1st HT probably could have been a one and done. 

[shadowcast]

6 hours ago, NARMAK said:

That said, properly applied and carefully, i was considering using it myself on the very outer parts of my own eyebrows.

I think you overestimate the locality of the effect of topical minox. Using it only on my scalp gave me very thick/luscious (seriously) eyelashes. I can't prove this, but I believe it causes my nails to grow very fast as well.

Edited January 11, 2023 by shadowcast

[NegativeNorwood]

10 hours ago, NARMAK said:

No rambling at all, loved how you infused a more scientific and maths based approach to the design discussion just there and thanks for reading my journey. 

In the first picture of David Gandy, you have his original face and aesthetically the hairline fits that face really well, but the 2nd photo morphs his facial features significantly so its not a completely 1:1 comparison which is why it looks almost like a completely different person. The forehead, nose and chin all change making it seem like a different person that's dressed in the same clothes trying to do the same pose.

That's why you have to be careful when using photoshop morphs imo. 

Temple point design wise, talking from personal experience when choosing it, i didn't want it completely vertical which i didn't think would aesthetically fit but i also didn't want to have them as acute as Eugenix usually tended to design them so i tried to do a LOT of research on the aesthetic choice but i always would take my pictures i used to get my consultation and edit the temple point designs in an almost MS paint fashion on my phone to try determine what was best for me. I used Francisco Lachowski and Sean O'Pry as reference points as well as Jake Gylenhaal to tweak to myself. 

I think i'm very happy with the aesthetic design i chose but i would have in hindsight tweaked the right temple point to match the left and as things stand, i definitely feel like i would need a 2nd HT to get to the level of density and aesthetic refinement i would want. I'd like to dense pack the temple points more as well as the frontal hairline and tweak the design ever so slightly to match the left as mentioned and just create a slightly more feathered look a mm or so below where the hair HT was done with higher density. 

I think ultimately what a lot of individuals want to do is try to keep their damn hair in the first place. The saying "Prevention is better than the cure" is particularly poignant when it comes to hair loss. I'm probably sounding greedy with things, but i genuinely wish i started Finasteride around 18-21 and preserved my hair even more at the front and the 1st HT probably could have been a one and done. 

 

Yes, the morph feminizes his face a lot and is very distracting, but if you focus just on the forehead, the lesser slope gives the illusion of more prominent temples. I didn't do it btw, just found it on the internet. I've made this edit to blur the rest of the face and showcase the effect more:

 

Agree with you, too vertical and rounded off temples look very bad, but the very acute ones usually look bad too. Designs that mimic what Francisco Lachowski or Sean O'pry have temple wise are ideal IMO.

Definitely, go for that second transplant as a refinement to fill them and make them look as dense and natural as you wish. You deserve those temples, so go for them!

Indeed, most people just want to have their hair back. 

I wish I started a hair loss protocol earlier too, I'm 30 and would probably be classed as a Norwood 2 due to not having temples. I already have a consult set with a dermatologist to prescribe me oral minox and oral fin to start preventing hair loss. I'm in no rush for the ht and don't mind waiting a few years for it. I've seen that the most sought after ht docs have 2-3 years wait lists so thought it would be wise to start investigating and preventing hair loss now to be the best possible patient in the future. I have other financial priorities at the moment but can definitely save money for a top tier ht doctor in the next 2-3 years.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[NikosHair]

Far too many factors in the shopped photo to draw conclusions.

• Compressing the forehead while leaving the TP's unchanged just changes the ratio of forehead to TP. Making the TP look bigger/more prominent, in comparison.
• The volume of hair has been reduced while the TP remain the same. Again, changing the proportions.

[NegativeNorwood]

11 minutes ago, NikosHair said:

Far too many factors in the shopped photo to draw conclusions.

• Compressing the forehead while leaving the TP's unchanged just changes the ratio of forehead to TP. Making the TP look bigger/more prominent, in comparison.
• The volume of hair has been reduced while the TP remain the same. Again, changing the proportions.

 

Now that you point it and I look closer, that's true. The images has too many things going on to draw a conclusion based on it.

Still, I think the forehead slope helps giving the illusion of temple prominence.

 

[L0ke]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:19 PM, NegativeNorwood said:

Shameless tag I know, but would love to read your opinions about this:

@Melvin- Moderator @DrMunibAhmad@BHRClinic @L0ke@Eugenix Hair Sciences

An interesting topic, and good to read more on the importance of temporal peaks here 👏
Even though your donor capacity is key, a good hair surgeon will not ignore the temple area because it is an important part in recreating the hairline. 
When it comes to the shape, there is no option A, B or C... recreating the temple points takes so much more than that.
Your personal preference needs to be discussed during a personal consultation with the doctor.
Dr. Feriduni will meticulously measure the dimensions of the patient's face and redesign the whole. 
It is not about density when it comes to this area; the hairs are very fine (mostly single FU). 
To achieve a natural result, Dr. Feriduni respects the natural blending when going deeper in the temple area.
Whether you prefer hard-shaped or more subtle, it is strongly advised to focus on the final appearance of your face.
Keep this in mind and how this naturally should keep matching with your face, also in the future.

[NegativeNorwood]

3 minutes ago, L0ke said:

An interesting topic, and good to read more on the importance of temporal peaks here 👏
Even though your donor capacity is key, a good hair surgeon will not ignore the temple area because it is an important part in recreating the hairline. 
When it comes to the shape, there is no option A, B or C... recreating the temple points takes so much more than that.
Your personal preference needs to be discussed during a personal consultation with the doctor.
Dr. Feriduni will meticulously measure the dimensions of the patient's face and redesign the whole. 
It is not about density when it comes to this area; the hairs are very fine (mostly single FU). 
To achieve a natural result, Dr. Feriduni respects the natural blending when going deeper in the temple area.
Whether you prefer hard-shaped or more subtle, it is strongly advised to focus on the final appearance of your face.
Keep this in mind and how this naturally should keep matching with your face, also in the future.

 

Thank you so much for answering!

Dr Feriduni's work is amazing, very natural and has a great eye for aesthetics. I've first read about temporal peaks a few months ago visiting his website and seeing the edits of celebrities with and without temporal peaks there.

It's a fascinating topic to me, because I never had prominent temporal peaks to being with, and most hair transplants results I've seen end up with a hairline like mine (barely no temples). As a reference, this is my hair at 19 yo and at 30 for comparison. It receeded and became more V shaped at 24-25 yo (lots of stress) but has stayed the same ever since. Hairline height seems the same to me other than less density at widow's peak.

Currently I'm 31 and will probably try minoxidil + finasteride + microneedling first (and hope to get some hair regrowth from it), but my intention is to have better temples than I ever had in the future. I would love to achieve something like the examples posted in the OP or even like this if temples that big don't suit me:

 

So yeah it was quite surprising to me that is such a neglected topic tbh

 

[Rafael Manelli]

Excellent topic. There is so much about temple points that tends to go unsaid. One thing I'll say is that they tend to start at the frontotemporal juncture, which tends to be in line with the sideburns, or anterior to them in more aggressive, youthful cases, and then come down and forward towards the eyebrows. They should come down at an angle less than 90 degrees if that makes sense. So they shouldn't be like a straight line that goes vertical with the head, instead they should come forward (anterior) until the peak (furthest forward point), and then back towards the sideburn forming roughly a triangular shape. Aside from being roughly triangular, they can involve convex or concave lines, and can be sharp and angular or more rounded. It just depends. Also they are rarely ever symmetrical from left to right in nature. A perfectionist might ask the surgeon to make the left and right design exactly the same, and this can look aesthetically fine, but just be aware it's rare in natural hairlines.

 

[Rafael Manelli]

Then you have guys like this whose temple points I can't quite figure out... 

[Curious25]

45 minutes ago, L0ke said:

An interesting topic, and good to read more on the importance of temporal peaks here 👏
Even though your donor capacity is key, a good hair surgeon will not ignore the temple area because it is an important part in recreating the hairline. 
When it comes to the shape, there is no option A, B or C... recreating the temple points takes so much more than that.
Your personal preference needs to be discussed during a personal consultation with the doctor.
Dr. Feriduni will meticulously measure the dimensions of the patient's face and redesign the whole. 
It is not about density when it comes to this area; the hairs are very fine (mostly single FU). 
To achieve a natural result, Dr. Feriduni respects the natural blending when going deeper in the temple area.
Whether you prefer hard-shaped or more subtle, it is strongly advised to focus on the final appearance of your face.
Keep this in mind and how this naturally should keep matching with your face, also in the future.

Hi L0ke, 

 

Do you have any recent examples of temple point restoration by Dr Feriduni you are able to share? 

Agree with OP - your clinics website details temple restoration extremely well. 

 

[NegativeNorwood]

1 minute ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Then you have guys like this whose temple points I can't quite figure out... 

 

This. I was born with a hairline like that. I've posted it above. A far cry from something like this:

 

Temples are so important, they give the impression of a framed, low set hairline. I technically have low set hairline (took the time to measure it and it is around 95% of the midface lenght, technically shorter than ideal), yet it "looks" like I have a high hairline due to the lack of temple points. Most people that want a lower hairline actually want more prominent temples.

 

[Rafael Manelli]

Your hairline shape is very interesting here. How I'd describe it is the frontotemporal junction is the most anterior part of the temporal hairline. In other words, the top corner is actually in front of the temple point itself. It is rare, some would say juvenile. Maybe an ethnic variant. But I think this may be what you're getting at 

[Phillyman1996]

2 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Your hairline shape is very interesting here. How I'd describe it is the frontotemporal junction is the most anterior part of the temporal hairline. In other words, the top corner is actually in front of the temple point itself. It is rare, some would say juvenile. Maybe an ethnic variant. But I think this may be what you're getting at 

Which race would you say has the most percentage of juvinille hairlines? Would you say african americans?

[Rafael Manelli]

4 minutes ago, Phillyman1996 said:

Which race would you say has the most percentage of juvinille hairlines? Would you say african americans?

Black men (American or otherwise ;)) often have this sort of hairline, which can read as juvenile. The temple points are boxy and squarish, with the frontal hairline straight or even slightly curved downwards - which is considered more of a feminine hairline in whites. 

Usually, the midpoint of a man's hairline is the lowest point. In a woman it may be the highest point. Africans sometimes seem to have this sort of curve. 

Native American men tend to have absolutely no male pattern baldness whatsoever. If they are pureblooded.