Eugenix 3514 grafts (720 on the temples) May 2022 Dr Priyadarshini Das

[GeneralNorwood]

On 11/24/2023 at 5:38 AM, consequence said:

Yield 9 or 9.5/10 - Very hard to tell with how fine your caliber is but it looks strong to me.
Design 8/10 

 

Listen, you are very generous with your rating, i can't agree with it. I think you missed some pictures in this topic. 

Let me show you some more pictures :  

They made unnatural dissconection between frontal third and donor. In terms of design i would give it 2/10. 

 

Left temple point is far worse then right. Doctor i visited asked : "They have 2 guys that are doing temple points? Propably this one who does the left ones is doing worse job and that's the reason" 

 

Here you can see some more pictures from the day of surgery. I think that Norwood 6 pattern is easily visible on them. 

On 11/24/2023 at 5:38 AM, consequence said:

 I echo Melvin's sentiment that this had to be intended as a 2 stage surgery or because you asked for a low hairline.

 

I don't echo Melvin's sentiment at all. If it was intended as a 2 or 3 or 4 stage surgery, i should be included in this plan. After 4 months Dr Das acted surprised that there is huge dissconection between frontal third and the donor and she asked if im using finasteride. That is called playing dumb. 

And i can repeat once again, that i didn't ask for the lower harline. Dr Das drew it and i agreed. I didn't show her at what level she should draw it. 

 

On 11/24/2023 at 5:38 AM, consequence said:

And I didn't catch whether you were on meds or not, but of course maximize medical therapy as much as possible with the big three.

I use dutasteride and minoxidil regulary. Recently i came back to using dermapen too. 

[BaldReaper]

On 11/24/2023 at 5:38 AM, consequence said:

Yield 9 or 9.5/10 - Very hard to tell with how fine your caliber is but it looks strong to me.
Design 8/10 - I echo Melvin's sentiment that this had to be intended as a 2 stage surgery or because you asked for a low hairline.

 

Design is 0/10, they literally recreated a NW0 hairline and temples to a NW7 patient , yield doesnt really matter in this case.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by BaldV

[GeneralNorwood]

15 minutes ago, BaldV said:

Design is 0/10, they literally recreated a NW0 hairline and temples to a NW7 patient , yield doesnt really matter in this case.

 

 

 

Yes, dr Das must have seen the border of horseshoe pattern. I was regulary trimming hair on the donor back then, so contrast was little smaller then now when i let donor grow.

However you can see, strong donor and above red line a lot of miniaturised light leftover hairs. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[GeneralNorwood]

2 minutes ago, consequence said:

That temple yield would probably make me drop it down another point. The planning seems to have been the major issue though. Perhaps there was a communication/language issue? They speak English in India, but the nuances of communication are often lost.

 

There wasn't any communication issues. Actually i had pretty good vibe with Dr Das. 

 

It's not about any nuances. She is a doctor and upon examination, she should establish my recpient area and make plan for surgeries that are based on my donor availability, this is called donor managment.

Besides, I could be deaf and without a tounge, but it doesn't excuse poor planning. 

 

2 minutes ago, consequence said:

You have a very limited supply and you don't want to get screwed a second time.

That's why now my next steps will be more cautious

[consequence]

.

Edited November 26, 2023 by consequence

[Gatsby]

@consequence you’ve missed my point entirely. My comment was that there are excellent female hair transplants surgeons. You said that generally female surgeons are not as good as male surgeons. 

[consequence]

.

Edited November 26, 2023 by consequence

[donpizmeov]

I think if someone cant agree as to this was poorly planned and executed by Eugenix there seems to be a clash of interests.. A top class Doctor wouldnt do such bad work if they had taken their time and done their assessment and made a proper plan… 

i hope you will get everything as you hope over a 2nd pass making it more natural and giving you your styling options back 🙏

Edited November 26, 2023 by donpizmeov

[consequence]

.

Edited November 26, 2023 by consequence

[donpizmeov]

I already changed it prior you correcting it but thanks… Try Update. Its 4AM here in London… 🙈

And by the way what I meant was in relation to your comment to Gatsby that I agreed with you that they have many hits (like Gatsbys case) but also too many misses for my taste. A top doctor who takes his time have much less “Human error” than what seems to be the case with Eugenix  

Edited November 26, 2023 by donpizmeov

[consequence]

.

Edited November 26, 2023 by consequence

[Ajamilo]

11 minutes ago, consequence said:

I'm really sick with the flu right now and I think I'm just punchy. I think OP will end up in a good place if he picks his next surgeon right, but it's going to be the marathon of his life to get there.

I am agreeing with you. what's done is done and we have to look forward and get this fixed. but is really idiotically done by Dr.Das  to give him cobblestoning.

@GeneralNorwood

Which doctors have you contacted to date and what have they said?

[donpizmeov]

No worries at all. And by the way OP your hairline does look good and better overall compared to your 1st OP.. when I refer to bad it is because of unnatural look as you referred to. I am sure with a great 2nd pass you can get to where you has hoped the 1st OP would have taken you. 🙏

[GeneralNorwood]

6 hours ago, consequence said:

@GeneralNorwood You've missed the point of my posts, which further makes me think there was a communication issue. English is presumably neither of your first languages so things can get lost in translation. Communication and "vibe" are two completely different things.

I know the difference between communication and vibe, but good communication helps to get good vibe and that's what i meant. 

They did cobblestoning. Bad communication? 

They botched left temple. Bad communication? 

They lowered harline by 2 cm in Norwood6 patient. Bad communication? 

Dr said that she won't implant grafts in the midscalp and crown because a lot of miniaturised hair are there and she doesn't want to harm this hair. Bad communication? 

Your "communicaction" hypothesis doesnt add up. 

 

 

6 hours ago, consequence said:

 

To reiterate, I'm not defending this as good planning if it was to be a one-and-done procedure, unless someone was intending a combover. When she drew the hairline and you saw how aggressive it was, it's also your responsibility to advocate for yourself 

 

Yes, you can blame me that i was uneducated regarding my state of baldness and i believed that i am Norwood 3V (which Eugenix said). Now i understand my state of baldness perfectly.

But look, you saw my photos in this topic and you made mistake by saying "It seems like may have lost some significant density with your native hairs despite medication". So you see, it is not so easy to evaluate a case by non-doctor.

 

I don't like this notion that shifts responsibility to a patient. Patient is an amateur who only read some things on the internet. And doctor is a person after medical studies and his responsibility for the procedure is 100%. 

 

Look at this : Maximum Density Hairline Transplant - YouTube

Bad communication? 🙃

 

 

6 hours ago, consequence said:

- take a look at @MazAB's experience to see an example of how a back and forth should work.ious.

Mazab case was so much easier.

 

6 hours ago, consequence said:

 

Actually you should have the plan down before you even contact the clinic for the first consult, even the graft count density. The more you plan the better your result will be. Especially after spending time on here it shouldn't be hard to visualize what is and isn't possible.

For you, the graft count you used would either be localized high density (which would be either a combover like this or a very high hairline) or a diffuse low density procedure. There's no way your native density could ever match a transplant this dense because you have pretty bad diffuse thinning. You're heading to a NW7 almost for sure and any future surgery you consider should be with this in mind.

 

Yes, i agree that you have to do a lot of research, educate yourself and make a good plan for the HT. But it shouldn't be like this. It is only like this, because doctors have low ethics and can't be trusted. It is only like this, because clinics are greedy and don't care about patients. But if somebody goes to a hairmill and is botched, at the end it is responsibility of a clinic. 

6 hours ago, consequence said:

 

And look at my case: I went to someone who is considered one of the best and my result looks like it will be disappointing as well because one side of my head was transplanted less densely than the other. Your frontal hairline density is much, much better than mine. No matter how much you plan, there are no guarantees in hair restoration. You're still leagues ahead of where you started.

 

You had small procedure, only 1700. And most of your pictures are shot in the dark lighting, they are not good, so i can't really give my opinion about the result.

Besides, you have plenty of donor and small area to cover, you will be fine. 

 

6 hours ago, consequence said:

Would also like to hear their side of the story -- something is not adding up here.

Well, they wrote a statement, which has some thruths and some lies : 

 

 

"We recommended a conservative approach that would focus on transplanting upon the thinned-out areas, such as the front and temples and a small number of grafts in the crown" 

It is untrue that upon live examination Dr Das proposed small number of grafts in the crown. She proposed to implant only in the frontal third and restore temple points. 

When i reached out to Eugenix for the first time via whatsapp and send them pictures - they proposed 1700 grafts in the crown and 2500 in the front and i was diagnosed with Norwood 3V. I was back then surprised with the high amount of grafts proposed for the crown and i did send them more pictures and asked if crown really needs this number of grafts. Then i had talk with Arika via whatsapp, and she said that there is no need to implant in the crown at all and first evaluation was bad. 

I met few days before procedure with Dr Das and she said that they won't implant in the crown at all, because of existing hair and first rule is "do not harm". Then i had few days to think about this and i wrote my concerns, that crown is too bald and needs some attention. At the day of surgery, she agreed that she can do some careful transplantation in the crown, around 300 grafts. It ended up 351 grafts. 

You see, they even contradict their own words in this statement " To meet your expectations, some grafts were put in the crown (in a small transplantable area only)". To meet my expactations... So it wasn't their idea. 

"The thinning areas were not transplanted consciously, and you were satisfied with the results at 9 months. "

I was never satisfied with the result, i don't know why they wrote such bs. 

 

"However, you wanted a more aggressive approach and wanted your temples to be restored like some of our other patients."

It is true that i showed them temple points restoration of the other patients that i liked. 

 

6 hours ago, consequence said:

Good luck OP. I don't think I will be commenting on your thread again as it's become quite contentious.

You are welcome here to write what you want. I didn't create this topic so people can please me with flattering. 

Disputing is good. 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[GeneralNorwood]

 

4 hours ago, Ajamilo said:

@GeneralNorwood

Which doctors have you contacted to date and what have they said?

I had live consultation with Bisanga 

 

 

Then i had another consultation online with well-known FUT surgeon.  He said that he heard earlier good things about Eugenix and was surprised by the planning, didn't have sense for him since im Norwood 6. We agreed that we have to meet live for the assessment.

 

And finally i had recently live consultation with respected FUE doctor, which i mentioned 2 days ago. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gatsby]

11 hours ago, Gatsby said:

Generally female surgeons aren't good at hair.

My point @consequence is that your comment is sexist. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Gatsby

[BackFromTheBrink]

51 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

My point @consequence is that your comment is sexist. 

He doubled down on that, and widened it beyond hair surgery to anything that required intense concentration.

At that point, I stopped reading his opinions as they're just not rational.

If we're disregarding any form of political correctness, the counter argument would be that Eugenix would be the absolute best planners and far better than any Belgian surgeon; strategic thinking and long term planning are what makes success CEOs and there is a large number of CEOs of Indian descent running the world's most successful companies.

Edited November 26, 2023 by BackFromTheBrink

[GeneralNorwood]

The dude decided to remove all content from all his posts on this thread🙃

[Berba11]

2 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

They botched left temple. Bad communication?

Your left temple is not "botched" in the slightest. Is it as good as the other side? Maybe not but temples generally aren't equal and HT's aren't perfect. You're being dramatic here.

Nevertheless, there are clear planning errors. Planning really isn't difficult; take a conservative approach to the hairline height and temple point work in oder to preserve grafts to meet future hair loss needs and to have an appropriate looking hairline in older age. It's as simple as that and your HT, though successful in terms of graft survival, growth and aesthetic improvement, is too aggressive. If I could do my own HT over again, I'd have gone 1.5cm higher up myself with the hairline, so I do know from experience that Eugenix have a tendency to gloss over detailed planning and examination of the scalp, donor etc. My own planning session was rapid; I had a hairline drawn on within 5 seconds of Dr Arika entering the room and there was no inspection of my donor and remaining hair via magnification to identify thinning or hair loss progression. Like you my results have been otherwise very good and have been a positive cosmetic improvement overall.

Ultimately these issues really stem from Eugenix being a big operation. They are probably the best clinic in the world in terms of having high-level package/tier options with quality doctors, and they've obviously got great talent at all levels of the business; we've all seen some incredible results over the years. But any big organisation that has a lot of moving parts will also have weaknesses and vulnerabilities in their operation and Eugenix are not exempt from that.

Personally I'd like to see Eugenix improve the level of planning per patient, which means more carefully examining each patient's hair loss progression and donor capacity with proper scalp examinations under magnification in combination with careful measurements of the scalp so that the maths are known in advance. Frankly all clinics should be doing this as standard rather than relying on the eye test or having to throw the kitchen sink at a patients' scalp later down the line.

[GeneralNorwood]

23 hours ago, Berba11 said:

Your left temple is not "botched" in the slightest. Is it as good as the other side? Maybe not but temples generally aren't equal and HT's aren't perfect. You're being dramatic here.

Yes, it is. I am not being dramatic. I know video from dr Sethi "HT aren't perfect" - nice damage control by him 🤣

 

Look at the pictures : 

Design of the left temple was according to the red line. Blue area shouldn't be bald, but it is. 

Look at right temple, so much better, it looks fuller. 

 

Look at the left temple again : 

 

The raw of singles is very straight (like blue line), without any irregularities, looks fake. Another thing is that there is no smooth transition between raw of singles and raw of doubles. It looks like 2 seperate raws and it is bad. 

 

Look now at the right temple : 

It is fuller, it is no so straight and transition between raw of singles and doubles looks smoother. If they added more raw singles like Dr Sethi educates, it would be even more smooth. 

 

 

23 hours ago, Berba11 said:

If I could do my own HT over again, I'd have gone 1.5cm higher up myself with the hairline, so I do know from experience that Eugenix have a tendency to gloss over detailed planning and examination of the scalp, donor etc. My own planning session was rapid; I had a hairline drawn on within 5 seconds of Dr Arika entering the room and there was no inspection of my donor and remaining hair via magnification to identify thinning or hair loss progression. Like you my results have been otherwise very good and have been a positive cosmetic improvement overall.

 

Well, yes i saw your topic some time ago but now i inspected the photos closely. 

 

You were classified and treated as Norwood 3 patient, but you are not. There are not many photos in your topic from Eugenix photosession, but this one clearly shows the balding pattern : 

 

 

Frontal third in the worst condition, however there is strong miniaturisation, diffuse thining across midscalp and crown. So basically it is Norwood 5. 

 

Frontal third doesn't look like Norwood 3 either. 

 

So it is clearly visible on this photo that midscalp and crown need a lot of grafts. 

And i see that in your last surgery Eugenix decided to forget about your Norwood 5 baldness and push forward with temple restoration, sounds familiar. 

 

23 hours ago, Berba11 said:

 

Personally I'd like to see Eugenix improve the level of planning per patient, which means more carefully examining each patient's hair loss progression and donor capacity with proper scalp examinations under magnification in combination with careful measurements of the scalp so that the maths are known in advance. Frankly all clinics should be doing this as standard rather than relying on the eye test or having to throw the kitchen sink at a patients' scalp later down the line.

Well, that is wishful thinking and not gonna happen mate. I think you should consult with other clinic, surgeon that specialize in diffuse thinning cases like you have.

And that's just my honest opinion, you can have different goals and i respect that. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Berba11]

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, it is. I am not being dramatic. I know video from dr Sethi "HT aren't perfect" - nice damage control by him 🤣

 

Look at the pictures : 

Design of the left temple was according to the red line. Blue area shouldn't be bald, but it is. 

Look at right temple, so much better, it looks fuller. 

 

Look at the left temple again : 

 

The raw of singles is very straight (like blue line), without any irregularities, looks fake. Another thing is that there is no smooth transition between raw of singles and raw of doubles. It looks like 2 seperate raws and it is bad. 

 

Look now at the right temple : 

It is fuller, it is no so straight and transition between raw of singles and doubles looks smoother. If they added more raw singles like Dr Sethi educates, it would be even more smooth. 

 

 

Well, yes i saw your topic some time ago but now i inspected the photos closely. 

 

You were classified and treated as Norwood 3 patient, but you are not. There are not many photos in your topic from Eugenix photosession, but this one clearly shows the balding pattern : 

 

 

Frontal third in the worst condition, however there is strong miniaturisation, diffuse thining across midscalp and crown. So basically it is Norwood 5. 

 

Frontal third doesn't look like Norwood 3 either. 

 

So it is clearly visible on this photo that midscalp and crown need a lot of grafts. 

And i see that in your last surgery Eugenix decided to forget about your Norwood 5 baldness and push forward with temple restoration, sounds familiar. 

 

Well, that is wishful thinking and not gonna happen mate. I think you should consult with other clinic, surgeon that specialize in diffuse thinning cases like you have.

And that's just my honest opinion, you can have different goals and i respect that. 

I had a consultation 3 weeks ago which included an examination of my donor & other areas under magnification. My crown is fine (at the moment!). Midscalp obviously has thinning but it’s not a major issue right now and would probably benefit from oral minoxidil (unsure whether I will go for that at the moment). Luckily my donor is quite decent. 
 

Inwas having a consultation with a view to taking hairline back up up at some point & I have consults with Feriduni & Zarev booked in 2025. No rush, but that’s an option I’m considering. 

[GeneralNorwood]

22 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

 

Inwas having a consultation with a view to taking hairline back up up at some point & I have consults with Feriduni & Zarev booked in 2025. No rush, but that’s an option I’m considering. 

When did you book Zarev consultation for 2025? And Feriduni has also so long waiting list for consultation right now? 

 

Harline back up? You want to extract grafts from the hairline? That would take 3 procedures. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Berba11]

32 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

When did you book Zarev consultation for 2025? And Feriduni has also so long waiting list for consultation right now? 

 

Harline back up? You want to extract grafts from the hairline? That would take 3 procedures. 

Booked Zarev in early April knowing it would be a couple of years anhead and yes, Feriduni has a long wait for an in-person consult though you can get an online assessment fairly quickly. Not sure how long the wait would be for surgery but I imagine it’s at least one year. 
 

I’m fully aware of what a hairline extraction requires, and may not even go ahead with such work, but it’s something I’m considering (hence the consultations). Having to wait a couple of years for the consults is useful to me as it gives me time to decide and also monitor any additional hair loss. 

[GeneralNorwood]

 

12 hours ago, Berba11 said:

I’m fully aware of what a hairline extraction requires, and may not even go ahead with such work, but it’s something I’m considering (hence the consultations). Having to wait a couple of years for the consults is useful to me as it gives me time to decide and also monitor any additional hair loss. 

3:09 - Leonardo Da Vinci's rule of thirds 😅

https://youtu.be/T64u40q3t9s?t=189

So generally this rule(with funny reference to Da Vinci) that people in HT community like to bring out says that distance from the hairline(MFP) to glabella should be 1/3 and from glabella to the bottom of face 2/3. 

 

I checked your proportions and it is 36,1 % to 63,9%(red and blue line). It means that to achieve perfect 33,33% to 66,66%, your harline should be even lower (like green line). 

So generally, your harline isn't too low in terms of face proportions.

 

My hairline is lower then yours. They did lower it by 2 cm and my proportions are truely 1/3 to 2/3. 

 

So if i were in your shoes, i wouldn't think right now about series of procedures extracting from the hairline, when you have so much available donor. Such a move in your case should be considered as a last resort.

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Hairy Henderson]

7 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, it is. I am not being dramatic. I know video from dr Sethi "HT aren't perfect" - nice damage control by him 🤣

 

Look at the pictures : 

Design of the left temple was according to the red line. Blue area shouldn't be bald, but it is. 

Look at right temple, so much better, it looks fuller. 

 

Look at the left temple again : 

 

The raw of singles is very straight (like blue line), without any irregularities, looks fake. Another thing is that there is no smooth transition between raw of singles and raw of doubles. It looks like 2 seperate raws and it is bad. 

 

Look now at the right temple : 

It is fuller, it is no so straight and transition between raw of singles and doubles looks smoother. If they added more raw singles like Dr Sethi educates, it would be even more smooth. 

 

 

Well, yes i saw your topic some time ago but now i inspected the photos closely. 

 

You were classified and treated as Norwood 3 patient, but you are not. There are not many photos in your topic from Eugenix photosession, but this one clearly shows the balding pattern : 

 

 

Frontal third in the worst condition, however there is strong miniaturisation, diffuse thining across midscalp and crown. So basically it is Norwood 5. 

 

Frontal third doesn't look like Norwood 3 either. 

 

So it is clearly visible on this photo that midscalp and crown need a lot of grafts. 

And i see that in your last surgery Eugenix decided to forget about your Norwood 5 baldness and push forward with temple restoration, sounds familiar. 

 

Well, that is wishful thinking and not gonna happen mate. I think you should consult with other clinic, surgeon that specialize in diffuse thinning cases like you have.

And that's just my honest opinion, you can have different goals and i respect that. 

Ya unfortunately this does not look good at all.  Too many Eugenix apologists here. Just admit this was a terrible result.