Eugenix 3514 grafts (720 on the temples) May 2022 Dr Priyadarshini Das

[ThePerseverantWarrior]

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

I don't notice hair falling out at all. I have like 0 hair in the shower/comb. 

I am really scared that in few months so called "anagen desynchronisation" will come and my hair will start to fall rapidly. I hope that Dr Arika is wrong about this one 😅

That's great. So your hairloss is completely stable and oral minoxidil isn't causing a shed either. 

And please don't talk about anagen desynchronization 😢. I am 9 months after my 2nd HT and my hairline has never looked this good since I was 20. A 20% shed therein and I'll get wrecked again! 

[GeneralNorwood]

3 hours ago, ThePerseverantWarrior said:

And please don't talk about anagen desynchronization 😢. I am 9 months after my 2nd HT and my hairline has never looked this good since I was 20. A 20% shed therein and I'll get wrecked again! 

 

Recently i saw video from Dr Bhatti and he doesn't agree with this anagen desychronization theory. It is good observation from him, that at the moment of HT there is already up to 20% hair in telogen in the donor. So if  they take 40 grafts from the back of the head with approximately 100 hair in it, up to 20 hair should be in telogen and only 80 in anagen. It would be weird that after transplantation in the front, all this 20 telogen hair would suddenly change to anagen and start to grow, is that what is this theory about? 

 

Another thing is that percent of hair in teleogen is different for each age. If you are young, only 10% are in telogen. 

 

BTW: I got the feeling, that at the end of the video, he is dissing Eugenix in subtle way. 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[ready4Hair]

29 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Recently i saw video from Dr Bhatti and he doesn't agree with this anagen desychronization theory. It is good observation from him, that at the moment of HT there is already up to 20% hair in telogen in the donor. So if  they take 40 grafts from the back of the head with approximately 100 hair in it, up to 20 hair should be in telogen and only 80 in anagen. It would be weird that after transplantation in the front, all this 20 telogen hair would suddenly change to anagen and start to grow, is that what is this theory about? 

 

Another thing is that percent of hair in teleogen is different for each age. If you are young, only 10% are in telogen. 

 

BTW: I got the feeling, that at the end of the video, he is dissing Eugenix in subtle way. 

 

 

I don't know if I buy that. It isn't a FUT it is a FUE and I'm assuming HT doctors are handpicking the best hairs to transplant. I just found this on another HT site:

How do we differentiate anagen hairs from telogen hairs? This photo shows both an anagen hair (bottom) and a telogen hair (top). Anagen hairs are darkly pigmented throughout the shaft. The characteristic feature is the massive number of cells known as “keratinocytes” that can be found in the area surrounding the bottom of the hair shaft. This is termed the root sheath. Anagen hairs have a root sheath.

Telogen hairs, on the other hand, lack pigment at the base and lack a root sheath. Most hairs, if not all the hairs, from a typical collection of hairs from a patient’s scalp are telogen hairs.

Which confirms that HT Surgeons can differentiate between Anagen and Telogen visually. AFAIKT if picked randomly, at least according to them, most would be in telogen i.e. in about the same phase, supporting Eugenix's claim.

Then again yet another site claims:

Anagen is the growth phase and approximately 85% of all hairs are in the growing phase at any one time

Which supports Bhatti's claim except, again, if the HT doc can visually distinguish and is cherry picking I'd assume they'd be going for the most Anagen hairs even if not consciously, which would in fact push most, i.e. 80%-100%, of the transplanted hairs to Anagen. 
 

Edited May 10, 2023 by ready4Hair

[GeneralNorwood]

1 hour ago, ready4Hair said:

I don't know if I buy that. It isn't a FUT it is a FUE and I'm assuming HT doctors are handpicking the best hairs to transplant. I just found this on another HT site:

How do we differentiate anagen hairs from telogen hairs? This photo shows both an anagen hair (bottom) and a telogen hair (top). Anagen hairs are darkly pigmented throughout the shaft. The characteristic feature is the massive number of cells known as “keratinocytes” that can be found in the area surrounding the bottom of the hair shaft. This is termed the root sheath. Anagen hairs have a root sheath.

Telogen hairs, on the other hand, lack pigment at the base and lack a root sheath. Most hairs, if not all the hairs, from a typical collection of hairs from a patient’s scalp are telogen hairs.

Which confirms that HT Surgeons can differentiate between Anagen and Telogen visually. AFAIKT if picked randomly, at least according to them, most would be in telogen i.e. in about the same phase, supporting Eugenix's claim.

Then again yet another site claims:

Anagen is the growth phase and approximately 85% of all hairs are in the growing phase at any one time

Which supports Bhatti's claim except, again, if the HT doc can visually distinguish and is cherry picking I'd assume they'd be going for the most Anagen hairs even if not consciously, which would in fact push most, i.e. 80%-100%, of the transplanted hairs to Anagen. 
 

 

I thought about this matter.

 

I had total grafts number 3514 - 

Beard - 32 grafts 

Scalp grafts - 3482 

Singles - 640

Doubles - 1762 

Triples - 800 

Quadruple - 280 

 

1. Punching is very fast and it is not possible to see difference between single hair, double hair etc, only using human eye, that's why they use microscope. 

2. Telogen phase lasts few months, so the lost of the pigment isn't instant. And when you have blond hair like me, i believe there is not such huge contrast between anagen and  telogen hair in color. 

3. You are a doctor and you punch 800 triple grafts. You have very good eye and  see that in graft there are 2 darker hair and one is little lighter. You decide to not punch this graft because of 1 lighter hair? Of course you punch it. It goes like this : PUNCH, PUNCH, PUNCH, PUNCH.

4. Yes, at the picture from the site that you are reffering to, there is visible difference between this anagen and telogen hair. But this picture is taken under augmentation. So after punching... 

5. Why would doctor select only grafts that has only anagen hair (in his opinion). It doesn't make sense. Telogen hair will become anagen soon anyway. 

6. Doctor must select grafts from the safezone and appropriate distance between extracted grafts is important, not subtle differences in hair colors. 

 

And lastly, look at this video and keep in mind that it is already augmented : 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[GeneralNorwood]

49 minutes ago, UnfortunatePatient said:

This doesn't look bad in any way when styled. Obviously the longer hair cover lateral humps. But when styled and with some fibers on crown it would probably look unnoticable to 99% of the population right now.

I think it looks unnoticable to 99% even without fibers, because i am tall and nobody sees the crown 😂

 

[Sunset Dune]

Your result turned out fine however the biggest make you made was going for the aggressive hairline, if you had went for a conservative higher hairline you would have had more grafts to fill in the left over bald areas. 
 

I highly suggest leaving your hair long it will help cover up the remaining bald spots as much as possible and since your hairline is no longer receded you can get away with it without having an ugly long hair receding hairline look.  Being tall has its advantages it’s more difficult to see balding crown 

[GeneralNorwood]

15 minutes ago, Sunset Dune said:

Your result turned out fine however the biggest make you made was going for the aggressive hairline, if you had went for a conservative higher hairline you would have had more grafts to fill in the left over bald areas. 
 

I highly suggest leaving your hair long it will help cover up the remaining bald spots as much as possible and since your hairline is no longer receded you can get away with it without having an ugly long hair receding hairline look.  Being tall has its advantages it’s more difficult to see balding crown 

Yes, i agree that keeping hair long is best option for now. Otherwise it will look something similar to month 6 result. 

 

If I went with higher hairline, i could save up to 1000 grafts i think. i won't rush into second surgery anyway. Now i'm waiting for 18 months result, i hope that till then crown will get full coverage from the front 😅

 

 

[ready4Hair]

17 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Recently i saw video from Dr Bhatti and he doesn't agree with this anagen desychronization theory. It is good observation from him, that at the moment of HT there is already up to 20% hair in telogen in the donor. So if  they take 40 grafts from the back of the head with approximately 100 hair in it, up to 20 hair should be in telogen and only 80 in anagen. It would be weird that after transplantation in the front, all this 20 telogen hair would suddenly change to anagen and start to grow, is that what is this theory about? 

 

Another thing is that percent of hair in teleogen is different for each age. If you are young, only 10% are in telogen. 

 

BTW: I got the feeling, that at the end of the video, he is dissing Eugenix in subtle way. 

 

 

Found this regarding what (purportedly) happens to hair when transplanted:

"After a hair transplant, the transplanted hair follicles enter the dormancy (telogen) phase for 3 ‐ 6 month before they start to grow (anagen phase). Full growth is usually achieved in 10 ‐ 12 months."

If true, it would support the theory in that each of the hairs transplanted enters telogen immediately. 

I'll search for my evidence on this, as it is presented by a company with a product meant to reduce the length of telogen for ht specifically so they have a vested interest in that "fact":

https://www.helphair.com.au/how-accelerated-follicular-restoration-reduces-the-length-of-the-telogen-phase-after-a-hair-transplant/#:~:text=After a hair transplant%2C the,nor to eliminate this phase.

[GeneralNorwood]

1 hour ago, ready4Hair said:

"After a hair transplant, the transplanted hair follicles enter the dormancy (telogen) phase for 3 ‐ 6 month before they start to grow (anagen phase). Full growth is usually achieved in 10 ‐ 12 months."

If true, it would support the theory in that each of the hairs transplanted enters telogen immediately.

 

For sure, not each of them enters telogen. The shedding after HT is diffuse. This is called ugly duckling phase, but you don't become completely bald, some hair continue to grew. Just look at the 1 month, 2 month, 3 month pictures... 

[ready4Hair]

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

For sure, not each of them enters telogen. The shedding after HT is diffuse. This is called ugly duckling phase, but you don't become completely bald, some hair continue to grew. Just look at the 1 month, 2 month, 3 month pictures... 

Ok, so if you are (convincingly) refuting the anagen desychronization theory, then is your implication that there is then some issue or loss/shock loss that occurs at 9-12 months in some patients and clinics blame it on a non-existent phenomenon?

[GeneralNorwood]

3 hours ago, ready4Hair said:

Ok, so if you are (convincingly) refuting the anagen desychronization theory, then is your implication that there is then some issue or loss/shock loss that occurs at 9-12 months in some patients and clinics blame it on a non-existent phenomenon?

According to Dr Arika, anagen desynchronisation occurs at 14-15 month. So i should expect it in 2-3 months. So we will find out soon. 

Explanation to this loss that some patient complain can be just natural cycle of hair. Imagine that at given point you are used to some density, but 2 months later because of natural cycle some hair fall out in the front and look is different then in previous month. And again in few next months this hair which fall out, start to grow again, and you are happy again. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[ThePerseverantWarrior]

On 5/11/2023 at 1:11 AM, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Recently i saw video from Dr Bhatti and he doesn't agree with this anagen desychronization theory. It is good observation from him, that at the moment of HT there is already up to 20% hair in telogen in the donor. So if  they take 40 grafts from the back of the head with approximately 100 hair in it, up to 20 hair should be in telogen and only 80 in anagen. It would be weird that after transplantation in the front, all this 20 telogen hair would suddenly change to anagen and start to grow, is that what is this theory about? 

 

Another thing is that percent of hair in teleogen is different for each age. If you are young, only 10% are in telogen. 

 

BTW: I got the feeling, that at the end of the video, he is dissing Eugenix in subtle way. 

 

 

I didn't get it. The basic idea behind anagen desynchronization, as far as I understand is : Not all hairs are in the same growth phase together. A transplant disturbs the natural hair cycle and hence post the shedding phase, all transplanted hairs (which survive) start growing together. However, their growth phases eventually return to normal resulting in a desynchronization. 

Besides, I have read the experiences of many people where they did recount an apparent loss of density in the 10-15 months period. 

But yeah, the desynchronization % does seem different in different people. That's why several others don't notice it I guess

Edited May 13, 2023 by ThePerseverantWarrior

[GeneralNorwood]

47 minutes ago, ThePerseverantWarrior said:

 A transplant disturbs the natural hair cycle and hence post the shedding phase, all transplanted hairs (which survive) start growing together. However, their growth phases eventually return to normal resulting in a desynchronization. 

Yeah, and Dr Bhatti claims that this is false assumption that all translanted hair start growing together. 

Because some transplanted hair (up to 20%) are telogen hair and transplantation doesn't change telogen hair into anagen, So this telogen hair will start to grow later. This is what Bhatti talks about. There is no desynchronisation, because there wasn't synchronisation at the first place. 

 

And my thought is that if Dr Bhatti is right, it is a bit random how many telogen hair was transplanted during procedure. If somebody had 20% telogen hair transplanted, 20% hair will grow later and there won't be dissapointment. But for example if somebody had only 5% telogen transplanted, he had 95% in anagen and in this case patient can be dissapointed when he loses some ground later on

 

Another thing is that if hair is in telogen phase, that doesn't mean that it sheds. .Telogen hair has cutted of blood supply, but it stay in a scalp for 3 months and during this period new hair is formed and slowly starts to push out this old hair. 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Syn187]

On 3/26/2023 at 9:37 PM, GeneralNorwood said:

Yes, FUE. But I don't want to rush into another transplant. I think the best option now is to take dutasteride, oral minoxidil and wait

Where from do you get your supplies for oral minox and dutasteride?

[ThePerseverantWarrior]

On 5/13/2023 at 7:32 PM, GeneralNorwood said:

Yeah, and Dr Bhatti claims that this is false assumption that all translanted hair start growing together. 

Because some transplanted hair (up to 20%) are telogen hair and transplantation doesn't change telogen hair into anagen, So this telogen hair will start to grow later. This is what Bhatti talks about. There is no desynchronisation, because there wasn't synchronisation at the first place. 

 

And my thought is that if Dr Bhatti is right, it is a bit random how many telogen hair was transplanted during procedure. If somebody had 20% telogen hair transplanted, 20% hair will grow later and there won't be dissapointment. But for example if somebody had only 5% telogen transplanted, he had 95% in anagen and in this case patient can be dissapointed when he loses some ground later on

 

Another thing is that if hair is in telogen phase, that doesn't mean that it sheds. .Telogen hair has cutted of blood supply, but it stay in a scalp for 3 months and during this period new hair is formed and slowly starts to push out this old hair. 

 

I think it all boils down to whether or not a transplant temporarily disrupts the natural growth cycle. 

[GeneralNorwood]

On 5/16/2023 at 2:59 PM, Syn187 said:

Where from do you get your supplies for oral minox and dutasteride?

Oral minox i have from Belgium pharmacy, Dr Bisanga prescribed it for me upon consultation which i had with him 2 months ago. 

 

Dutasteride i get from local pharmacy in Poland. 

[GeneralNorwood]

On 5/17/2023 at 7:30 PM, ThePerseverantWarrior said:

I think it all boils down to whether or not a transplant temporarily disrupts the natural growth cycle. 

It distrupts, but in which way. For sure it stops anagen phase for a while and causes shedding. But it doesn't stop telogen.  Even Eugenix wrote in some post, that telogen hair after HT start to grow later. 

[general-etwan]

On 3/22/2023 at 1:20 PM, hairman22 said:

How did Eugenix not think you were a potential NW7?

It was obvious.

Did they examine your native hair closely before the surgery?

You have to plan for the worst case scenario.

 

Planning for the worst case scenario doesn't mean implanting a high number of grafts into thinning-but-not-bald areas in the first procedure. That's not what that means. Proper planning above all means following the pattern of hair loss as it occurs. Not trying to attack all potentially bald areas all at once.

[GeneralNorwood]

13.5 months update 

 

It's pretty hot in Poland now, over 30 degrees during a day. So i go outside, get sweaty and hair are in trouble, specially when there is no product in them like on pictures below.

I really wish i got some grafts in lateral humps area, it would be like night and day. For people that say i focus on negative things - Guys i am presenting reality of my HT, i am not unhappy, i wasn't botched. Things are still far better then before HT. Neverthless, there are some issues that need to be adressed in next procedure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, so later this day i used some sea salt spray, i use it often because it does great job holding hair and adding some volume. 

 

 

 

 

 

Btw, i cutted sides the shortest since the time of surgery. 

 

 

 

 

What do you guys thing about temples? Personally i like them better when they grow longer like in previous updates. 

[Shadman]

On 5/11/2023 at 1:41 AM, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Recently i saw video from Dr Bhatti and he doesn't agree with this anagen desychronization theory. It is good observation from him, that at the moment of HT there is already up to 20% hair in telogen in the donor. So if  they take 40 grafts from the back of the head with approximately 100 hair in it, up to 20 hair should be in telogen and only 80 in anagen. It would be weird that after transplantation in the front, all this 20 telogen hair would suddenly change to anagen and start to grow, is that what is this theory about? 

 

Another thing is that percent of hair in teleogen is different for each age. If you are young, only 10% are in telogen. 

 

BTW: I got the feeling, that at the end of the video, he is dissing Eugenix in subtle way. 

 

 

 

Well, there's no doubt that he made the video purposely on Eugenix. I don't have much knowledge regarding the anagen desynchronization, so no comment on that part. He also made a video on why his technique is better than DHT. But the truth is in comparison with his clinic Darling buds, Eugenix is far superior. He has knowledge, but with only knowledge you can't produce good results. He used to be one of finest surgeons, but over the years now he has become an ordinary surgeon. He is still not upgrading himself with time, using the same tools which were used 10 years back. On the other hand, Eugenix has evolved with time.

 

Just to let you know, I had my first procedure with him 38 months back, and I had my repair procedure with Eugenix 10 days back. 

 

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

13.5 months update 

 

It's pretty hot in Poland now, over 30 degrees during a day. So i go outside, get sweaty and hair are in trouble, specially when there is no product in them like on pictures below.

I really wish i got some grafts in lateral humps area, it would be like night and day. For people that say i focus on negative things - Guys i am presenting reality of my HT, i am not unhappy, i wasn't botched. Things are still far better then before HT. Neverthless, there are some issues that need to be adressed in next procedure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, so later this day i used some sea salt spray, i use it often because it does great job holding hair and adding some volume. 

 

 

 

 

 

Btw, i cutted sides the shortest since the time of surgery. 

 

 

 

 

What do you guys thing about temples? Personally i like them better when they grow longer like in previous updates. 

Yes, I saw your previous post. When it was longer, it looked better. Do you always wear the headband or occasionally ?

[GeneralNorwood]

1 hour ago, Shadman said:

 

Well, there's no doubt that he made the video purposely on Eugenix. I don't have much knowledge regarding the anagen desynchronization, so no comment on that part. He also made a video on why his technique is better than DHT. But the truth is in comparison with his clinic Darling buds, Eugenix is far superior. He has knowledge, but with only knowledge you can't produce good results. He used to be one of finest surgeons, but over the years now he has become an ordinary surgeon. He is still not upgrading himself with time, using the same tools which were used 10 years back. On the other hand, Eugenix has evolved with time.

Well, i wouldn't go to Dr Bhatti for HT, thats for sure. However in many videos he speaks with sense and that's different topic. 

He can be right that there is no such thing as anagen desynchronsiation. I will know in few months if this is a myth 😅

 

1 hour ago, Shadman said:

Just to let you know, I had my first procedure with him 38 months back, and I had my repair procedure with Eugenix 10 days back. 

 

Yes, I saw your previous post. When it was longer, it looked better. Do you always wear the headband or occasionally ?

 

Happy growing then, i am waiting for your updates

In my prevoious update, i didn't wear the headband, so not always. I wear it when i don't want tou use products like hair spray or other products that provide hold. 

 

Here i made some comparision. Maybe on the right it is different hairstyle, because it's slickback, but remember that before procedure there was no hair to slick back 🤣

[Shadman]

Yes, @GeneralNorwood that’s the kind of benefit of long hair, you can style it. I also used to wear headbands for the hold. 

[asterix0]

@GeneralNorwood if you are happy with your results do not listen to me, but my humble recommendation is to get a skin level fade for your temples or some electrolysis. They are too straight and the grafts are too thick in my opinion, something looks off even for a complete hair transplant layman or person on the street.

Also, brush your hair forward I think it looks better than the slick back style. 

See for example Beckham here:

His hairline has that natural softness in the front and unevenness. 

[Ajamilo]

Are you going to do another surgery and focus on the mid-scalp? The density on the first 1/3 looks pretty good and also the hairline looks nice. But the temple looks off. Did the doctor use soft hair? since it looks thick

[GeneralNorwood]

11 hours ago, asterix0 said:

@GeneralNorwood if you are happy with your results do not listen to me, but my humble recommendation is to get a skin level fade for your temples or some electrolysis. They are too straight and the grafts are too thick in my opinion, something looks off even for a complete hair transplant layman or person on the street.

 

 

This is already skinfade, cutting temples shorter will make them look worse. Electrolysis will harm ilusssion of density. I cutted temporal hair short (5mm) and i expected that they will look worse. My barber says "it's the shortest i recommend, because if we cut them more, there will be dots visible".

So the best option is what i always said, if you make temple points HT, you have to grow them longer to look best. I only cutted them to confirm this. Many people don't understand that you have to grow temporal peaks longer to look good. You can check my previous updates and see what they look like when growing longer. 

Personally, i prefer hairstyles without big skinfade, so long temporal hair is ok for me. 

11 hours ago, asterix0 said:

 

Also, brush your hair forward I think it looks better than the slick back style. 

 

 

Take a look at my previous posts : https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/66820-eugenix-3514-grafts-720-on-the-temples-may-2022-dr-priyadarshini-das/?do=findComment&comment=708303

 

 

Combing hair forward is not an option now. I need 2nd HT for midscalp and crown. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by GeneralNorwood