Eugenix 3514 grafts (720 on the temples) May 2022 Dr Priyadarshini Das

[GeneralNorwood]

3 hours ago, Bandit90 said:

Looking back at your thread, I do feel at your first sitting there was possibly a bit of hope that the meds would rescue the tonne of miniaturised hair you have. I can see the doctors logic by not wanting to implant in area where there is lots of miniaturised hair and risk permanent shock loss. I don't think it looks as bad as you think. Now that you have given yourself a year on dut and there has been no improvement to the miniaturised hair, I think now you can now formulate a solid plan and work on the basis it wont recover. 

 

This is true that Dr Das said that she has hope of further improving with finasteride, but i was already more then 1 year on finasteride and i was like "this is as good as it gets. So there was no such hope in me, personally. 

I am on dut 0.5 mg daily since september 2022, so half year. 

During today's videoconference, Dr Das emphasized some hopes for further use of dutasteride. And again, i can't connect with this hopes, because i am already 2 years on DHT blockers and it is what it is. There are some studies that show that dutasteride has better effect on hair then finasteride, but it is only around 10% more effective. We can't expect that this miniaturised, thin, light colored hair will become terminal hair. 

 

3 hours ago, Bandit90 said:

Though I have a huge respect for Dr Bisanga, I personally don't agree with some his sentiments i.e about your temple looking unnatural (I think it looks really natural). Also him wanting to do a video on you titled "how not to make  HT in Caucasian male".  To me there feels an air of trying to do one over a competitor clinic here, a very extreme/unnecessary tactic, when in reality your result is only at pass one out of two passes . 

To give you full perspective, when i came to conference room in Hotel Marriott, Dr Bisanga was sitting in front of the computer. I shook hands with him and started filling some form from BHR. Then Dr Bisanga asked me "what is my goal here today?". Keep in mind that i was facing him, so he saw only front of the hair, so at that time maybe my goal wasn't obvious. 

I told that i want him to evaluate my HT. He was like "Our job is not to evaluate other's clinic work, son". But then he stood up and started to look at my scalp. He noticed what's going on and asked if i give the permission to record, because he is teaching young doctors about HT and he wants to show this case to them. 

That was free consultation and it lasted around 30 minutes, we had to finish because other people were waiting. Later i was waiting for friend from polish forum, who also had consultation with Dr Bisanga. His consultation lasted only 5 minutes. His case was kind of botched job from turkish clinic with depleted donor and wrong shape of harline. But apparently,  Dr Bisanga didn't think it is worth recording. 

I don't think it's "tactic" to compete with Eugenix. You know only about this consultation because of me. Even if Dr Bisanga decides to publish this video online, i am sure he won't be disclosing clinic's name. Dr Sethi also publishes videos when he points out mistakes in hairtransplant. Furthermore, Dr Bisanga, Dr Sethi and Dr Arika, they know each other and from what i know, they are in good relationship. 

3 hours ago, Bandit90 said:

Looking at your hair characteristics they are close to mine, beard included. I honest think that adding your remaining scalp grafts with 2500 beard you will honestly look great. I know you didn't factor in a two stage plan (or was led to believe you would need one), but I think you goals will be met. 

 

 

Yeah, the thing is that i like wearing my beard, so first of all i don't want to overharvest it. 2500 is much and i think your beard is more dense. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[GeneralNorwood]

3 hours ago, DHT said:

Dr. Bisanga is a good doc, but he has not seen you a year prior, may be according to him it was aggressive but to me it looks perfect. around 6-6.5cm from glabella may be?
 

Yes, it is 6 cm from glabella to MFP. 

 

3 hours ago, DHT said:

 your thread is a good example of diffuse thinning and further progression of baldness and Eugenix did a great job. Good luck @GeneralNorwood, keep us posted on your progress. 

There is not further progression of baldness, just to be clear. You have to compare pictures in the same lighting condition. This is January 2022 vs January 2023 : 

 

[Bandit90]

2 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

This is true that Dr Das said that she has hope of further improving with finasteride, but i was already more then 1 year on finasteride and i was like "this is as good as it gets. So there was no such hope in me, personally. 

I am on dut 0.5 mg daily since september 2022, so half year. 

During today's videoconference, Dr Das emphasized some hopes for further use of dutasteride. And again, i can't connect with this hopes, because i am already 2 years on DHT blockers and it is what it is. There are some studies that show that dutasteride has better effect on hair then finasteride, but it is only around 10% more effective. We can't expect that this miniaturised, thin, light colored hair will become terminal hair. 

 

To give you full perspective, when i came to conference room in Hotel Marriott, Dr Bisanga was sitting in front of the computer. I shook hands with him and started filling some form from BHR. Then Dr Bisanga asked me "what is my goal here today?". Keep in mind that i was facing him, so he saw only front of the hair, so at that time maybe my goal wasn't obvious. 

I told that i want him to evaluate my HT. He was like "Our job is not to evaluate other's clinic work, son". But then he stood up and started to look at my scalp. He noticed what's going on and asked if i give the permission to record, because he is teaching young doctors about HT and he wants to show this case to them. 

That was free consultation and it lasted around 30 minutes, we had to finish because other oeople were waiting. Later i was waiting for friend from polish forum, who also had consultation with Dr Bisanga. His consultation lasted only 5 minutes. His case was kind of botched job from turkish clinic with depleted donor and wrong shape of harline. But apparently,  Dr Bisanga didn't think it is worth recording. 

I don't think it's "tactic" to compete with Eugenix. You know only about this consultation because of me. Even if Dr Bisanga decides to publish this video online, i am sure he won't be disclosing clinic's name. Dr Sethi also publishes videos when he points out mistakes in hairtransplant. Furthermore, Dr Bisanga, Dr Sethi and Dr Arika, they know each other and from what i know, they are in good relationship. 

Yeah, the thing is that i like wearing my beard, so first of all i don't want to overharvest it. 2500 is much and i think your beard is more dense. 

Me personally think another pass at Eugenix you would have looked great. But I look forward in seeing how Dr Bisanga takes this case forward. Docs might have a good professional relationship, but Hair Restoration is a business, and you saying that one clinic was filming vids (whether for educational purposes not) about another clinic with strong criticisms is never going to down well on both sides. I can't imagine Dr Pradeep will be best pleased about it nor will Dr Bisanga be pleased your outing his criticisms on a public domain viewed by other docs, which where likely said in confidence between you both during a private consult. I'm not having a dig at you here btw, I know you are genuinely seeking a good looking natural end result. 

[GeneralNorwood]

48 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

Me personally think another pass at Eugenix you would have looked great. But I look forward in seeing how Dr Bisanga takes this case forward. Docs might have a good professional relationship, but Hair Restoration is a business, and you saying that one clinic was filming vids (whether for educational purposes not) about another clinic with strong criticisms is never going to down well on both sides. I can't imagine Dr Pradeep will be best pleased about it nor will Dr Bisanga be pleased your outing his criticisms on a public domain viewed by other docs, which where likely said in confidence between you both during a private consult. I'm not having a dig at you here btw, I know you are genuinely seeking a good looking natural end result. 

Maybe don't worry so much about clinics, they will be fine, trust me 😂

Hair Restoration Social Network is forum "Created by and for patients". Maybe it's a slogan, but i like to belive in it. I know that some of you had great experience with particular clinics, everything was friendly, results are astonishing etc. But it doesn't mean that you have to defend clinics, they are not your friends, be sure of that. 

If you don't want to critique particular clinic's other patient case, because you personally had great experience, perhaps a better choice is diplomatic silence instead of being overdefensive. That doesn't mean that nobody can provide argument in favor of clinic, feel free to do so if you have solid point 

But some posts in my topic, like yours, seem to me overdefensive in favor of clinic and this posts are going in wrong direction. Because why do you care so much if Dr Pradeep, Dr Bisanga or any other doctor will be pleased? I personally can better identify with other patients then clinics, because i know what fighting with hairloss looks like. 

Yes, i am genuinely seeking a good looking natural end result. I started my story here on hairrastoration and on polish forum too. I have to be transparent with other patients, so they can benefit from my experience and i can benefit too, upon reading advices from other members.

Care more about the patients, less about the clinics. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Melvin- Admin]

7 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Maybe don't worry so much about clinics, they will be fine, trust me 😂

Hair Restoration Social Network is forum "Created by and for patients". Maybe it's a slogan, but i like to belive in it. I know that some of you had great experience with particular clinics, everything was friendly, results are astonishing etc. But it doesn't mean that you have to defend clinics, they are not your friends, be sure of that. 

If you don't want to critique particular clinic's other patient case, because you personally had great experience, perhaps a better choice is diplomatic silence instead of being overdefensive. That doesn't mean that nobody can provide argument in favor of clinic, feel free to do so if you have solid point 

But some posts in my topic, like yours, seem to me overdefensive in favor of clinic and this posts are going in wrong direction. Because why do you care so much if Dr Pradeep, Dr Bisanga or any other doctor will be pleased? I personally can identify with other patients, because i know what fighting with hairloss looks like. 

Yes, i am genuinely seeking a good looking natural end result. I started my story here on hairrastoration and on polish forum too. I have to be transparent with other patients, so they can benefit from my experience and i can benefit too, upon reading advices from other members.

Care more about the patients, less about the clinics. 

I don’t believe anyone is being defensive, everyone here is sharing their thoughts and opinions. You can agree or disagree. Just because someone doesn’t have the same view as you, doesn’t mean they’re being defensive. You have every right to express your dissatisfaction, but others are allowed to share their input as well. You can’t post something publicly and ask those who disagree with you to be silent. I don’t think that’s a good approach either.

[GeneralNorwood]

15 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I don’t believe anyone is being defensive, everyone here is sharing their thoughts and opinions. You can agree or disagree. Just because someone doesn’t have the same view as you, doesn’t mean they’re being defensive. 

Well i have different opinion and i wasn't talking about you in particular, because you provided some valid critique against clinic, so i can't say that you are onesided. 

15 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

You have every right to express your dissatisfaction, but others are allowed to share their input as well. You can’t post something publicly and ask those who disagree with you to be silent. I don’t think that’s a good approach either.

That's not what i meant. I am all for free speech. If somebody wants to write onesided opinions in favor of clinic, feel free to so, but it just doesn't look serious to me and that's my opinion. My post was only meant to make forum users reconsider their objectivity. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Bandit90]

23 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Maybe don't worry so much about clinics, they will be fine, trust me 😂

Hair Restoration Social Network is forum "Created by and for patients". Maybe it's a slogan, but i like to belive in it. I know that some of you had great experience with particular clinics, everything was friendly, results are astonishing etc. But it doesn't mean that you have to defend clinics, they are not your friends, be sure of that. 

If you don't want to critique particular clinic's other patient case, because you personally had great experience, perhaps a better choice is diplomatic silence instead of being overdefensive. That doesn't mean that nobody can provide argument in favor of clinic, feel free to do so if you have solid point 

But some posts in my topic, like yours, seem to me overdefensive in favor of clinic and this posts are going in wrong direction. Because why do you care so much if Dr Pradeep, Dr Bisanga or any other doctor will be pleased? I personally can better identify with other patients then clinics, because i know what fighting with hairloss looks like. 

Yes, i am genuinely seeking a good looking natural end result. I started my story here on hairrastoration and on polish forum too. I have to be transparent with other patients, so they can benefit from my experience and i can benefit too, upon reading advices from other members.

Care more about the patients, less about the clinics. 

I'm not worrying bro. 

Think you're preaching to the wrong guy bud! I've helped my fair share of dudes this past twelve months, my HRN inbox and Instagram page are full of people i've helped and even been thanked on several  HRN threads for doing so.

Anyways, good luck with your journey

 

 

 

[Zoomster]

The bottom line here is you most probably will end up in the HOF ‘24 club once  Eugenix get a hold of you once more …

Whilst I’ve the greatest of respect for Dr Bisanga as I’m sure we all do on here isn’t his wheelhouse mostly  NW 2 to 5 s ??….I’m not 100 % sure he would of accepted me @Bandit90@Gatsby@IrishWarrior and whole host of other high Norwoods on here for even a 1st HT never mind multiples .

You went to the right clinic for your set of circumstances….you’ll soon come to realise this ..they need to get their hands on you once more to shore the whole lot up …🙌

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Zoomster

[Rafael Manelli]

5 hours ago, Bandit90 said:

Looking back at your thread, I do feel at your first sitting there was possibly a bit of hope that the meds would rescue the tonne of miniaturised hair you have. I can see the doctors logic by not wanting to implant in area where there is lots of miniaturised hair and risk permanent shock loss. I don't think it looks as bad as you think. Now that you have given yourself a year on dut and there has been no improvement to the miniaturised hair, I think now you can now formulate a solid plan and work on the basis it wont recover. 

Though I have a huge respect for Dr Bisanga, I personally don't agree with some his sentiments i.e about your temple looking unnatural (I think it looks really natural). Also him wanting to do a video on you titled "how not to make  HT in Caucasian male".  To me there feels an air of trying to do one over a competitor clinic here, a very extreme/unnecessary tactic, when in reality your result is only at pass one out of two passes . 

Looking at your hair characteristics they are close to mine, beard included. I honest think that adding your remaining scalp grafts with 2500 beard you will honestly look great. I know you didn't factor in a two stage plan (or was led to believe you would need one), but I think you goals will be met. 

 

 

I don’t think it’s fair to accuse Dr Bisanga of trying to outdo Eugenix and Lord it over them. Clinics tend to be averse to openly criticising each other. Bisanga has made videos dissing the work of other doctors, but he never names and shames the clinic. He only points out where he sees problems, and how he would do it differently. Also he seems to be on good terms with Sethi.

[Rafael Manelli]

5 hours ago, DHT said:

100%. 

 

Dr. Bisanga is a good doc, but he has not seen you a year prior, may be according to him it was aggressive but to me it looks perfect. around 6-6.5cm from glabella may be?
You just need one more sitting to get the best for you! Again, other clinic may use this as a tactics as John said but your thread is a good example of diffuse thinning and further progression of baldness and Eugenix did a great job. Good luck @GeneralNorwood, keep us posted on your progress. 

I don’t think his balding has advanced. It was always diffuse nw7. It was obvious from the beginning. His meds seem to be working well, so I don’t think it’s a case of the doctor did they best they could but the hair kept thinning and made him need another surgery.

I also strongly disagree with comments that he was always going to need 2 surgeries to get a natural appearance or fill in the offending lateral hump and temple gaps. That could have easily been done in one sitting, but the choice was made to spend the grafts on nw0 hairline instead.

[Rafael Manelli]

3 hours ago, Berba11 said:

 

What Dr Bisanga considers a difficult case and what other Dr's like Dr Pradeep consider difficult aren't going to be the same thing. There aren't many cases around more difficult than Gatsby or IrishWarrior's. Their starting positions were far, far worse than yours - higher norwoods than you are currently, much worse donor areas, extensive strip scarring and no/minimal native hair up top to cling onto with finasteride or dutasteride. Your first surgery has been a success, which makes a massive difference going forwards. And as a last resort, hairlines can go back up again if you really, really needed the grafts, but you're long way off needing to consider that.

Gatsby had tons of suitable body and beard hair and wasn’t given a teenage hairline though. Also he was an exceptional case, you can’t use him as a standard.

[Melvin- Admin]

13 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I also strongly disagree with comments that he was always going to need 2 surgeries to get a natural appearance or fill in the offending lateral hump and temple gaps. That could have easily been done in one sitting, but the choice was made to spend the grafts on nw0 hairline instead.

I have to strongly disagree, what Norwood 6/7 that you know could achieve a uniform result using 3,500 grafts? Hair transplants are all about supply and demand. 

Now you can have critiques about the planning of the procedure that’s fair. But he could’ve gone to Jesus himself, and he would still need a second procedure right away. 

The lateral humps near the part line are extremely difficult to fill in one procedure. @Zoomster will tell you even after 14k grafts it’s still not perfect. It’s impossible, to transplant his hairline, midscalp, and address the lateral humps with 3,500 grafts. 

The demand exceeds the supply. Regardless of who he went too, he would’ve needed a second procedure. In fact, not just one additional procedure, at least two procedures. Now, I can’t comment on what he was or wasn’t told during his consultation because I wasn’t there. The fact is, he’s a Norwood 6/7, he has a large surface area to cover, you can’t cover that area with 3,500 grafts. Impossible. He would’ve still had bald patches regardless.

[Rafael Manelli]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I have to strongly disagree, what Norwood 6/7 that you know could achieve a uniform result using 3,500 grafts? Hair transplants are all about supply and demand. 

Now you can have critiques about the planning of the procedure that’s fair. But he could’ve gone to Jesus himself, and he would still need a second procedure right away. 

The lateral humps near the part line are extremely difficult to fill in one procedure. @Zoomster will tell you even after 14k grafts it’s still not perfect. It’s impossible, to transplant his hairline, midscalp, and address the lateral humps with 3,500 grafts. 

The demand exceeds the supply. Regardless of who he went too, he would’ve needed a second procedure. In fact, not just one additional procedure, at least two procedures. Now, I can’t comment on what he was or wasn’t told during his consultation because I wasn’t there. The fact is, he’s a Norwood 6/7, he has a large surface area to cover, you can’t cover that area with 3,500 grafts. Impossible. He would’ve still had bald patches regardless.

I agree he was never going to get full coverage with 3500 grafts but feel it is wrong to assume that 3500 grafts is the maximum he could have had in one surgery. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, Rafael Manelli said:

I agree he was never going to get full coverage with 3500 grafts but feel it is wrong to assume that 3500 grafts is the maximum he could have had in one surgery. 

He went to one of the top 3 clinics in the world that can extract maximum grafts. 3,500 grafts all scalp in one session is a big number. Not many can withstand much more without depletion. We can all point to outliers where 7,000 grafts are taken at once, but he clearly isn’t an outlier.

[Rafael Manelli]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

He went to one of the top 3 clinics in the world that can extract maximum grafts. 3,500 grafts all scalp in one session is a big number. Not many can withstand much more without depletion. We can all point to outliers where 7,000 grafts are taken at once, but he clearly isn’t an outlier.

I don't think it's likely that Dr Das simply extracted as much as she could without making the donor thin and depleted. More likely she extracted only as much as she needed to to fill the desired area with the desired density, which is the right thing to do. 

If a larger area of coverage were proposed, I would think more could have been extracted to meet the demand. 

He's been told he has at least 3000 more grafts before donor starts looking depleted. 

[GeneralNorwood]

5 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

He went to one of the top 3 clinics in the world that can extract maximum grafts. 3,500 grafts all scalp in one session is a big number. Not many can withstand much more without depletion. We can all point to outliers where 7,000 grafts are taken at once, but he clearly isn’t an outlier.

Just tu clarify, there were 2 sessions. During first day i had implanted 2160 grafts and on the second day 1354 grafts. 

 

 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

4 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I don't think it's likely that Dr Das simply extracted as much as she could without making the donor thin and depleted. More likely she extracted only as much as she needed to to fill the desired area with the desired density, which is the right thing to do. 

If a larger area of coverage were proposed, I would think more could have been extracted to meet the demand. 

He's been told he has at least 3000 more grafts before donor starts looking depleted. 

I don’t think so, if a clinic can extract more grafts without damaging the donor they will, especially Eugenix. He has 3,000 more grafts now because he wasn’t depleted the first round. There are very FEW that can withstand more than 3,500-4,000 grafts in one round. There are outliers, sure, but to assume he could’ve gotten way more is speculation. 
 

@GeneralNorwood

Thank you for sharing that photo I didn’t know it was 3,500 grafts over two days. The only reason a clinic would stretch out a procedure two days is to extract the maximum number of grafts your donor could withstand. There are a lot of things to critique, but graft count is not one of them.

[GeneralNorwood]

2 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

The only reason a clinic would stretch out a procedure two days is to extract the maximum number of grafts your donor could withstand. 

The other reason is that we started on 11:10 am and finished on 8pm. People want to go home 😅

[Rafael Manelli]

It is speculative, but it's not unreasonable to speculate. I will admit I could be mistaken.

I'm not entirely convinced that taking more grafts in one session is unusually harmful to the donor. Whether you take 6000 in one go or 3000 in one session and 3000 in the next, it's depleting the donor by 6000 grafts either way. Why would it deplete it by more? Permanent shock loss? If gigasessions were so harmful to the donor, it would be a grave mismanagement to do them, and doctors like Zarev wouldn't be doing 10000 grafts in one session - but could do 15000 in two sessions, for the same patient, which would be much better.

Not that I'm a staunch advocate for FUE megasessions in the first place necessarily

[GeneralNorwood]

13 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I don't think it's likely that Dr Das simply extracted as much as she could without making the donor thin and depleted. More likely she extracted only as much as she needed to to fill the desired area with the desired density, which is the right thing to do. 

I think you are right, because today Dr Das told me that she wasn't implanting on lateral humps on purpose, because of my young age. She said that if she had to do the operation again, she would do everything the same

[Rafael Manelli]

Just now, GeneralNorwood said:

I think you are right, because today Dr Das told me that she wasn't implanting on lateral humps on purpose, because of my young age. She said that if she had to do the operation again, she would do everything the same

This makes little sense to me. Does she think you ought to have thin lateral humps because you are young?

 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, GeneralNorwood said:

The other reason is that we started on 11:10 am and finished on 8pm. People want to go home 😅

It took them 9 hours to extract 2,160 grafts. Your donor probably wasn’t  robust. What clinic would want to prolong a surgery to two days if they didn’t have too? They lose money. You’re not happy, that’s fair. I think every patient has a right to be dissatisfied. 

I believe this is a good learning experience for everyone. For the clinic, pleasing the patient at the time may not please them afterward. For the patient, being in denial doesn’t help anyone. Medication does not change your level of baldness. Hope for the best, plan for the worst is always a good way to approach surgery. 

[Rafael Manelli]

6 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

It took them 9 hours to extract 2,160 grafts. Your donor probably wasn’t  robust. What clinic would want to prolong a surgery to two days if they didn’t have too? They lose money. You’re not happy, that’s fair. I think every patient has a right to be dissatisfied. 

I believe this is a good learning experience for everyone. For the clinic, pleasing the patient at the time may not please them afterward. For the patient, being in denial doesn’t help anyone. Medication does not change your level of baldness. Hope for the best, plan for the worst is always a good way to approach surgery. 

It didn't take them 9 hours to extract the 2160 grafts. It took them 9 hours to apply anaesthetics, extract 2160 grafts and then implant 2160 grafts 

Of course medication can change ones level of hair loss. Usually it merely slows it to a crawl, but it can provide a reversal to some degree. It seems to have worked quite well for him. 

[Rafael Manelli]

18 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

I think you are right, because today Dr Das told me that she wasn't implanting on lateral humps on purpose, because of my young age. She said that if she had to do the operation again, she would do everything the same

Did you ask her why she'd do such a low hairline again for such an advanced balding level? 

[GeneralNorwood]

11 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

 

I believe this is a good learning experience for everyone. For the clinic, pleasing the patient at the time may not please them afterward. For the patient, being in denial doesn’t help anyone. Medication does not change your level of baldness. 

Yes, this is good case study. 

Medication did really good job. It did some part of me thinking that i am Norwood 3V.