Eugenix 3514 grafts (720 on the temples) May 2022 Dr Priyadarshini Das

[Rafael Manelli]

8 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Well, there other factors too, check out this video : 

 

 

Yes, super high density in one go comes with risks. But it's not necessary for most people anyway. 55/cm² isn't super high anyway 

[MazAB]

3 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

"Do we want the hairline of teenagers?" 

Yes. 😂 I'm sorry but I almost feel like people who disagree are mostly just coping with their limited donor supply. A Norwood 1 looks good on Ronald Reagan, Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Bill Clinton, JFK and Tom Cruise and they are/were not exactly spring chickens. 

I think you make a great point about density. But I think you should be able to get good density in one go. 55/cm² can be done in one go, I believe. 

Some people have done 80 or even 100/cm² in one go. 

I'd be very careful choosing any clinic that claims they can give huge amounts of density for any single procedure. The hair grafts need room to breathe and must have adequate blood supply. Honestly, from what I've seen, the clinics that try to overdue it on density end up with a higher transection rate because of the lack of sufficient blood supply to the grafts. The dreaded necrosis factor is a very real for clinics that notoriously push the upper limits of density. 

Eugenix will only perform anywhere from 35 to 45 grafts per CM2 for this very reason. For example, I was around 40 grafts per cm2 for my first procedure. Now having had my 2nd procedure, I'm at around 60 grafts per cm2 plus or minus, after it all grows in over the next 5 months. Don't concentrate too much on density. You want to aim for high survival rates, good graft placement to aid in the illusion of density, and also follow-up procedures for added density, and other enhancements provided that it aligns with your goals and makes sense from a donor to recipient ratio perspective. 

[GeneralNorwood]

3 hours ago, Phillyman1996 said:

How many cm is your hairline measurment?

Can you elaborate what it means? 

26 minutes ago, MazAB said:

I'm at around 60 grafts per cm2 plus or minus, after it all grows in over the next 5 months.

Yes, but you are definetly around 60 grafts/cm2 in the old hairline, because they added extra grafts to old 40 grafts/cm2. But how about this completely new area, where there was no hair, did they implant there 60 grafts/cm2 or around 40 grafts/cm2? 

[Phillyman1996]

1 minute ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Can you elaborate what it means? 

Yes, but you are definetly around 60 grafts/cm2 in the old hairline, because they added extra grafts to old 40 grafts/cm2. But how about this completely new area, where there was no hair, did they implant there 60 grafts/cm2 or around 40 grafts/cm2? 

I ment how many inches is your hairline when you measured

[GeneralNorwood]

1 minute ago, Phillyman1996 said:

I ment how many inches is your hairline when you measured

You mean how many cm it is from mid frontal point to glabella? It is 6 cm. 

Or do you mean how many square cm i had implanted in frontal region? I dont know that. 

[Phillyman1996]

2 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

You mean how many cm it is from mid frontal point to glabella? It is 6 cm. 

Or do you mean how many square cm i had implanted in frontal region? I dont know that. 

Mid point to glabella yes thats how big my forhead is its also 6 cm from midpoint to glabella

[Xanadu]

On 12/2/2022 at 4:59 AM, shiba1985 said:

This is a ball-sy restoration for someone with your level of hairloss and your balding pattern. I would have recommended something much more conservative to keep it looking natural. From the side view you can see there is a gap between where you existing hair stops and where the hair transplant begins. 

I agree. A very low hairline for this level of hairloss. There is a huge risk of running out of grafts trying to keep up with additional hairloss over time. At least you are on dut, so maybe you can avoid the worst of that.

 

Having said that, the part they did looks really good.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Xanadu

[GeneralNorwood]

49 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

I agree. A very low hairline for this level of hairloss. There is a huge risk of running out of grafts trying to keep up with additional hairloss over time. At least you are on dut, so maybe you can avoid the worst of that.

It's interesting because this opinion that i went too aggressive is very common in this topic and nobody says that for example Bandit90 went agressive. And our hairlines are not so different, maybe his is 1cm higher. 

Like guys, i think that i dont need 8000+ grafts to close the deal.

Edited February 3, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[general-etwan]

Seeing your journey for the first time.

Looks like high quality work and from a distance, looks fantastic. Should be happy and proud.

Definitely aggressive. If I was designing the HT I would not have gone that far forward with the temples or that low with the hairline. I would have placed more grafts on the top of the head where you've lost hair.

Bandit90's design is on the aggressive side too, in my opinion. Both of yours are looking good, but there's no doubt they're both on the aggressive side of things towards the front of the head. Mine on the other hand is certainly much more conservative; that may be a result of how limited we were with donor hair, but it is what it is. I obviously had no temple work but also never felt like I needed any to look acceptable. I do believe your temple work was very aggressive.

Everything has grown in nicely though. The curls at the front look good. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by general-etwan

[GeneralNorwood]

On 2/4/2023 at 6:06 AM, general-etwan said:

 I would have placed more grafts on the top of the head where you've lost hair.

As i wrote in the first post, Dr Priyadarshini didn't want to implant grafts on top of my head to not harm native hair. But after watching photos from session i insisted to implant some hair on the top and she agreed to implant around 300 on the crown, it was finally 351 hair. 

On 2/4/2023 at 6:06 AM, general-etwan said:

 

Bandit90's design is on the aggressive side too, in my opinion. Both of yours are looking good, but there's no doubt they're both on the aggressive side of things towards the front of the head.

Ok, that's fair 😄

Edited February 7, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Rafael Manelli]

Yours is definitely more aggressive than bandit90's, if by aggression we mean proximity to the ideal. John (bandit90) got Dr Sethi to show him where his ideal hairline would be if grafts were no issue. Its about 10mm further down than his current hairline. The temples are brought in more too.

Yours on the other hand seems just about ideal, and the distance from the glabella is lesser. 

You could also look at aggressiveness in a more relativistic sense. What's aggressive for one man may not be for another, depending on the donor and recipient. Perhaps aggression could be defined by how much risk one takes on of being unable to fill in the area behind the chosen hairline if loss progresses. 

It's all about how you look at it. Anyway in my opinion yours is maximally idealistic, and I hope it proves the right move for you long term. 

[GeneralNorwood]

On 2/7/2023 at 4:01 PM, Rafael Manelli said:

Yours is definitely more aggressive than bandit90's, if by aggression we mean proximity to the ideal. John (bandit90) got Dr Sethi to show him where his ideal hairline would be if grafts were no issue. Its about 10mm further down than his current hairline. The temples are brought in more too.

Yours on the other hand seems just about ideal, and the distance from the glabella is lesser. 

You could also look at aggressiveness in a more relativistic sense. What's aggressive for one man may not be for another, depending on the donor and recipient. Perhaps aggression could be defined by how much risk one takes on of being unable to fill in the area behind the chosen hairline if loss progresses. 

It's all about how you look at it. Anyway in my opinion yours is maximally idealistic, and I hope it proves the right move for you long term. 

 

 

 

Yeah, my is maybe even little more aggressive then this "ideal hairline" project for Bandit90. 

However i am 3 Norwood stages lower, having Norwood 4 with diffuse thining, having good donor too, taking dutasteride and minoxidil, so i hope that i will pull it off. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Rafael Manelli]

4 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

 

 

Yeah, my is maybe even little more aggressive then this "ideal hairline" project for Bandit90. 

However i am 3 Norwood stages lower, having Norwood 4 with diffuse thining, having good donor too, taking dutasteride and minoxidil, so i hope that i will pull it off. 

You might end up nw7 naturally but if you can save 5000 FUs with meds you're basically getting 5000 grafts for free, at no cost to the donor, so yes. 

[GeneralNorwood]

3 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

You might end up nw7 

But it can be after 20 years so i don't care. 

If you are good responder to finasteride/dutasteride, it is scientifically proven that this drugs will stabilize your hairloss for 10+ years. I started finasteride 2 years ago(now i am on dut) and since then i am better off. 

 I will be extremly happy if i finish this journey with 2nd HT and mantain effects for next 10 years, i am dedicated to stay on medicine therapy. 

And on this forum we have @MazABwho is taking finasteride since times that it wasn't even called finasteride, so + 20 years and i think his hair are pretty stabile since he started taking this drug. 

 

[Rafael Manelli]

2 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

But it can be after 20 years so i don't care. 

If you are good responder to finasteride/dutasteride, it is scientifically proven that this drugs will stabilize your hairloss for 10+ years. I started finasteride 2 years ago(now i am on dut) and since then i am better off. 

 I will be extremly happy if i finish this journey with 2nd HT and mantain effects for next 10 years, i am dedicated to stay on medicine therapy. 

And on this forum we have @MazABwho is taking finasteride since times that it wasn't even called finasteride, so + 20 years and i think his hair are pretty stabile since he started taking this drug. 

 

Precisely and also you're a fool and an extreme pessimist if you don't think science and technology will improve in the next 20 years. We just need to reach follicular escape velocity, when the rate of progress in hair restoration technology matches the rate of hair loss itself... 

Then it's over for hair loss.

[GeneralNorwood]

11 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Precisely and also you're a fool and an extreme pessimist if you don't think science and technology will improve in the next 20 years.

Well, for the last 20 years i belive there was little improvement. But now this Chinese guys from Kintor are up to something and hopefully things will speed up. 

[GeneralNorwood]

On 12/2/2022 at 4:46 AM, GeneralNorwood said:

 

6 months 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Today i had some sun in my room, so i took some pictures of the top. It's month 9 and there is no big improvement since month 6. Dutasteride is not helping much. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[GeneralNorwood]

@BHRClinic

Dr Bisanga came to Warsaw, Poland 2 days ago. I had consultation with him, which was for free. 

He was heavely critisising this hair transplant. 

His main points : 

- My hair transplant was made without a plan. It was like building a house without foundation. 

- Donor managment was bad and it didn't take into account future progression of baldness. 

- Hairline was made too low and it was a waste of precious grafts. In his opinion Caucasians have higher foreheads and my hairline shouldn't be lowered but made on the level of native hair. 

- HT on temples was mistake too. In his opinion  it was a waste of grafts and caucasians don't have such prominent hair on the temples. He said that maybe it can look great on instagram, but it's not natural. 

- He used some special device and calculated that i have 60+ grafts per cm/2 in donor area. He estimated that i have 3200 grafts in safe zone for future HT. 

-He said that i have retrograde alopecia starting from the nape of the neck. 

- I have a lot of miniaturised, vellus hair on the midscalp and crown. 

- There is visible border between transplanted hair and nontransplanted, it looks very unnatural. 

- Next steps should be made carefully. He estimated that for 2HT i need 2500 grafts for midscalp and lateral humps. I asked him what about the crown. He said that if we had unlimited donor, crown work would require 3000 grafts. 

- He was talking about some differences between my beard hair and scalp hair. The pojnt was that my beard is not so good for HT.

- He recommended switching from liquid minoxidil to oral minoxidil 5mg. 

- He recorded video to teach "How to not make HT in caucasian male". 

 

 

So generally, this information that 2HT for midscalp and lateral humps will pretty much use all of my left donor is worrying for me. What about the crown... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is photo that i received today from BHR clinic with message " We saw your topic on forum (hairrastoration). To be honest, we believe that the actual photos you have posted do not show the real picture, which unfortunately looks worse " 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Judelaw]

I’m sorry to hear the bad news but you have to respect Bisanga for giving it to you straight with a plan of action. What led your surgeon to place so many grafts in the temple points?

[ZeeMan]

8 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

@BHRClinic

Dr Bisanga came to Warsaw, Poland 2 days ago. I had consultation with him, which was for free. 

He was heavely critisising this hair transplant. 

His main points : 

- My hair transplant was made without a plan. It was like building a house without foundation. 

- Donor managment was bad and it didn't take into account future progression of baldness. 

- Hairline was made too low and it was a waste of precious grafts. In his opinion Caucasians have higher foreheads and my hairline shouldn't be lowered but made on the level of native hair. 

- HT on temples was mistake too. In his opinion  it was a waste of grafts and caucasians don't have such prominent hair on the temples. He said that maybe it can look great on instagram, but it's not natural. 

- He used some special device and calculated that i have 60+ grafts per cm/2 in donor area. He estimated that i have 3200 grafts in safe zone for future HT. 

-He said that i have retrograde alopecia starting from the nape of the neck. 

- I have a lot of miniaturised, vellus hair on the midscalp and crown. 

- There is visible border between transplanted hair and nontransplanted, it looks very unnatural. 

- Next steps should be made carefully. He estimated that for 2HT i need 2500 grafts for midscalp and lateral humps. I asked him what about the crown. He said that if we had unlimited donor, crown work would require 3000 grafts. 

- He was talking about some differences between my beard hair and scalp hair. The pojnt was that my beard is not so good for HT.

- He recommended switching from liquid minoxidil to oral minoxidil 5mg. 

- He recorded video to teach "How to not make HT in caucasian male". 

 

 

So generally, this information that 2HT for midscalp and lateral humps will pretty much use all of my left donor is worrying for me. What about the crown... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is photo that i received today from BHR clinic with message " We saw your topic on forum (hairrastoration). To be honest, we believe that the actual photos you have posted do not show the real picture, which unfortunately looks worse " 

 

Ultimately, it all depends on how you feel about your hair? Are you satisfied/happy etc? People will always talk, but you are wise enough to ignore the nay-sayers!!

[Z--]

Honestly, I thought your hair looked fantastic, until I saw the Bisanga photos, which makes the situation a bit more nuanced. Think Eugenix got you great growth, but if it's true that you only have 3,200 hairs remaining and that large of an area to cover, there are going to have to be some sacrifices (e.g. a bald spot left in the crown or weaker coverage on the lateral humps). Was this made clear to you before the surgery? Did you insist on the aggressive hairline?

That said, if you're happy with a strong hairline and weaker midscalp/crown, then the surgery was a success. I'd seriously consider going to a more conservative doctor to maximize your yield and one who plans for future loss. Bisanga is, of course, a great option. Others to reach out include Dr. Munib Ahmad and Konior. I've seen great repair cases from all of them.

How are you feeling about the result?

[Rafael Manelli]

You went for something of an “Icarus” hairline. It’s about as ambitious as one would ever want to be, and you knew the risk was in not having those grafts for farther back. If Bisanga is correct, I’m surprised Eugenix were so reckless.

Eugenix have a tendency for more aggressive hairlines, I’ve noticed, especially compared to Bisanga who is more conservative. Perhaps it’s partly due to Eugenix’s proclivity towards throwing beard hair at the problem until it goes away  (not meant as a criticism of them, just a difference in approach from Bisanga who is notoriously conservative)

I look forward to seeing the BHR video in case it does show a different story, but I still think it looks great as is and I still believe you could get a strong final outcome from a 2nd procedure, even if you have to make some compromise or use concealer.

[hairman22]

I wasn't impressed previously when I sent photos to Eugenix.

Claimed hair loss will slow in your 30's not on finasteride this isnt really true imo. Was very pushy towards me having a transplant. Kept emailing me.

 

They have done some great work but i dont like how to present there cases either not very transparent with the crown especially.

 

I think Bisanga was a bit harsh. Although i think the front is too dense,

Actually a less dense hairline & frontal third would save more grafts & you could have equal density through the top of the scalp.

It is probably too low as well considering you are a NW7 in the future,

@GeneralNorwood I would not rush the next surgery.

I think Zarev or Pitella are your best shot & receiving a great result,

They will be able to get more from your scalp donor than 3000

[Rafael Manelli]

Density is better served in the front, Dr Feller talks about this.

[Rafael Manelli]

13 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

HT on temples was mistake too. In his opinion  it was a waste of grafts and caucasians don't have such prominent hair on the temples. He said that maybe it can look great on instagram, but it's not natural. 

Has he seen Brad Pitt? It looks natural to me.

If you’re worried about running out of grafts, you could go with the option of doubling down on the frontal third with the second transplant for higher density, and use non surgical solutions for the mid scalp and crown (concealers, smp or prosthesis, all three of which work best on the mid scalp and crown.)