Eugenix 3514 grafts (720 on the temples) May 2022 Dr Priyadarshini Das

[GeneralNorwood]

11 hours ago, Ajamilo said:

Are you going to do another surgery and focus on the mid-scalp? The density on the first 1/3 looks pretty good and also the hairline looks nice. But the temple looks off. Did the doctor use soft hair? since it looks thick

Hello, i am going to do another surgery definitely. 

Yes, they look for softer hair, but they are not implanting baby hair like in natural temple points, so the result is not 100% natural. I agree that now temples look little off, because they are cutted too short. You can see my other updates, when i had longer temple points, it looked more natural. 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Z--]

Agreed. This is unfortunately a botch job. The sign of a good transplant is naturalness. How is anyone seriously in their right mind defending this work?

• The temples look very strange; like genuinely a different texture than the surrounding hair. It may need to stay shaved down.
• It also looks like you may be limited to a slicked back style. If that's your preference, that's completely fine, but if you want to comb it forward, I'm concerned that won't be possible.

[GeneralNorwood]

2 hours ago, Z-- said:

Agreed. This is unfortunately a botch job. The sign of a good transplant is naturalness. How is anyone seriously in their right mind defending this work?

The temples look very strange; like genuinely a different texture than the surrounding hair. It may need to stay shaved down.

 

Wow, that's harsh opinion, but i agree that on the last pictures that i presented temples don't look natural. 

What do you mean by saying that temples need to stay shaved down? Like cut them with 0mm ? 

 

2 hours ago, Z-- said:

 

• It also looks like you may be limited to a slicked back style. If that's your preference, that's completely fine, but if you want to comb it forward, I'm concerned that won't be possible.

This is my biggest complaint about the Eugenix. 

Before the surgery, For 31 years of my life I had never styled my hair as slickback. They didn't inform me that after HT I will be limited to this slickback style. If i knew this, i would push for totally different plan of surgery, certainly not so aggressive. 

 

Just look at my photos before operation (first post). That was hairstyle that i was wearing. It wasn't so dense, it had diffuse thining, but it was natural. It didn't require much trouble in styling, no headbands, no sea salt spray, no hair sprays, gels, etc. It was easy and comfy. 

Now easy and comfy is gone. Hair transplant should expand your hairstyles possibilities, not limit them. 

So yes, transplanting between hair in diffuse thining area, without hariline lowering, was the best option. WIth this scenario, combing forward, which is my favourite hairstyle, would be possible. 

Before procedure, Eugenix didn't talk with me about the plan for the future (we only talked about medication), for next hair transplants, about hairstyles that will be possible and required styling. After 1 year they told me "It's best to slick back hair in your situation" 🙃

Will it be possible to comb the hair forward after next hair transplants (providing it will look good and uniform)? 

With 3000 grafts that i have left in the safezone it's unlikely. Maybe only magicians like Zarev could plan the next operation solidly and pull some grafts out of a hat.  

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[Z--]

8 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Wow, that's harsh opinion, but i agree that on the last pictures that i presented temples don't look natural. 

What do you mean by saying that temples need to stay shaved down? Like cut them with 0mm ?

 

Apologies, I don't mean to cause further upset -- just to be clear: this isn't on you at all. 0%. You trusted the doctor and they ought to have done a much better job. I'm frankly disgusted in this thread that anyone defends your treatment or your outcome. You have every right to be disappointed.

I think the temples just look like a different texture than the surrounding hair. It just looks too squarish in a way that I've never seen any temples. They tend to round out or be softer. They also don't fully connect to the original temples, so they appear to be like random floating blocks on the side of your head. It looks okayish from the front perspective, but it's noticeable from the side. Again, I'm  very sorry man - if I were in your shoes, I'd contemplate moving those grafts as @asterix0 suggested.

12 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

This is my biggest complaint about the Eugenix. 

Before the surgery, For 31 years of my life I had never styled my hair as slickback. They didn't inform me that after HT I will be limited to this slickback style. If i knew this, i would push for totally different plan of surgery, certainly not so aggressive.

 

Yeah this is total bs - most men don't even like slicking their hair back. I've noticed this is unfortunately many Eugenix patients are forced to wear. As I said, while they get good growth, it comes at the expense of many grafts and poor planning.

I think Zarev is your best bet. I'd also seek out Hattingen, who are quite good in Europe and perhaps near you. For you to not need to slick your hair back, you'll need to fill in the lateral humps and the midscalp. Otherwise, there will be kind of an unnatural gap after the hairline.

[Vann]

In honesty, I think you hair loss pattern is similar to mine. It may not be the exact same because of hair characteristics but I think the way you responded to meds was also similar to me. However, I just got lucky and started them earlier than you did.

I also considered FUT but opted for FUE first. I am still considering FUT but only if I go to someone as skilled as Konior (not many). Despite the fact that its a deeper scar, the way that your skin healed for this looks pretty well and how you have responded well to meds you could probably rock your hair longer to cover it up. Nonetheless, I am not advocating you to do anything, just consider and explore more options as you explore your hair with your current medications in time.

If I was in your position... I would go for a slightly thinning crown and address all matters from lateral humps, mid scalp and use some beard grafts in the crown in your second operation (lets say like 50) and see how they grow. If they pose no issue after your second operation then mix some beard grafts in there.

However, with your current hair style I am sure you wouldnt want to rely solely there. If you are able to go outside of your donor zone you could use those grafts in "thinning crown" to give you some illusion of density. But this all varies on how many grafts you save, future loss, and all other things considering.

[ready4Hair]

3 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

 

Wow, that's harsh opinion, but i agree that on the last pictures that i presented temples don't look natural. 

What do you mean by saying that temples need to stay shaved down? Like cut them with 0mm ? 

 

This is my biggest complaint about the Eugenix. 

Before the surgery, For 31 years of my life I had never styled my hair as slickback. They didn't inform me that after HT I will be limited to this slickback style. If i knew this, i would push for totally different plan of surgery, certainly not so aggressive. 

 

Just look at my photos before operation (first post). That was hairstyle that i was wearing. It wasn't so dense, it had diffuse thining, but it was natural. It didn't require much trouble in styling, no headbands, no sea salt spray, no hair sprays, gels, etc. It was easy and comfy. 

Now easy and comfy is gone. Hair transplant should expand your hairstyles possibilities, not limit them. 

So yes, transplanting between hair in diffuse thining area, without hariline lowering, was the best option. WIth this scenario, combing forward, which is my favourite hairstyle, would be possible. 

Before procedure, Eugenix didn't talk with me about the plan for the future (we only talked about medication), for next hair transplants, about hairstyles that will be possible and required styling. After 1 year they told me "It's best to slick back hair in your situation" 🙃

Will it be possible to comb the hair forward after next hair transplants (providing it will look good and uniform)? 

With 3000 grafts that i have left in the safezone it's unlikely. Maybe only magicians like Zarev could plan the next operation solidly and pull some grafts out of a hat.  

 

I'm unclear what about their HT limited you to slicking your hair back (actually asking not "challenging") vs brusinng to the side, ceasar cut etc?

[asterix0]

Slickback styles can look good, certainly for the average person they will think with some concealer that you have a full head of hair.

It is still better than being bald, 100%.

I personally just think temple work is very, very tricky to do. Perhaps the hardest part of a transplant, because there are very limited nape hairs that can mimic the softness of our original temple hairs. Also the angle is tricky to get right.

 

[GeneralNorwood]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:42 PM, Z-- said:

Apologies, I don't mean to cause further upset -- just to be clear: this isn't on you at all. 0%. You trusted the doctor and they ought to have done a much better job. I'm frankly disgusted in this thread that anyone defends your treatment or your outcome. You have every right to be disappointed.

No worries, you are not causing further upset. You can be as harsh as in this video 😆

 

And it's true that some people in this topic blame me and not the clinic. What can i say, they are biased. 

 

On 6/29/2023 at 8:42 PM, Z-- said:

 

I think the temples just look like a different texture than the surrounding hair. It just looks too squarish in a way that I've never seen any temples. They tend to round out or be softer. They also don't fully connect to the original temples, so they appear to be like random floating blocks on the side of your head. It looks okayish from the front perspective, but it's noticeable from the side. Again, I'm  very sorry man - if I were in your shoes, I'd contemplate moving those grafts as @asterix0 suggested.

And what do you think about my temples when they grow longer? For example like in this post : 

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/66820-eugenix-3514-grafts-720-on-the-temples-may-2022-dr-priyadarshini-das/page/10/#comment-716899

 

 

On 6/29/2023 at 8:42 PM, Z-- said:

 

Yeah this is total bs - most men don't even like slicking their hair back. I've noticed this is unfortunately many Eugenix patients are forced to wear. As I said, while they get good growth, it comes at the expense of many grafts and poor planning.

That's exactly what i heard from them. "Just slick back hair like our other patients do". What a joke.

On 6/29/2023 at 8:42 PM, Z-- said:

 

I think Zarev is your best bet. I'd also seek out Hattingen, who are quite good in Europe and perhaps near you. For you to not need to slick your hair back, you'll need to fill in the lateral humps and the midscalp. Otherwise, there will be kind of an unnatural gap after the hairline.

I thought about Hattingen too. Dr Sever Muresanu is good at FUT. I had already FUE, so FUT won't provide maximal possible yield, but maybe it's still worth considering. 

 

 

[GeneralNorwood]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:37 PM, ready4Hair said:

I'm unclear what about their HT limited you to slicking your hair back (actually asking not "challenging") vs brusinng to the side, ceasar cut etc?

 

Well, look at this examples when hair are combed forward, i think it explains everything : 

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/66820-eugenix-3514-grafts-720-on-the-temples-may-2022-dr-priyadarshini-das/?do=findComment&comment=708303

 

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/66820-eugenix-3514-grafts-720-on-the-temples-may-2022-dr-priyadarshini-das/?do=findComment&comment=707619

 

[GoliGoliGoli]

I think this was already said, but the left temple looks good when hair is grown out, it's the right temple that is definitely too square. It basically makes a perfect 90 degree angle and as Bisanga said usually Caucasian's don't have temple points that are that defined. Both temples definitely look better with the hair grown out so I think as long as you keep them grown out it really doesn't look bad or super unnatural. 

As you've already highlighted, the bigger issue from the planning perspective is not that the temples look unnatural (Like I said it isn't so bad when sides are grown out) but that they went way too aggressive with the hairline and temples given your personal situation and donor availability. So ya you basically have two screw ups from Eugenix here (Sorry to be harsh): 1st is that they went too aggressive, and 2nd is that they didn't do a good job executing on both temples, but especially on the right one. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

Sorry, it's the left temple that's too square, not the right. The right actually looks really good and natural when the hair is grown out. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli

[Z--]

37 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Sorry, it's the left temple that's too square, not the right. The right actually looks really good and natural when the hair is grown out. 

Exactly this. Right side is actually pretty natural; near impossible to detect transplant. Left side is too squarish.

[TEXAN35]

The hair line looks very good but 720 grafts on temple seems more than necessary. Some of those could have been put on mid scalp. I think low density temples can also provide face a good profile as long as they are shaped right. I guess it also depends upon hairstyle. Short side hair goes well with low density temples whereas high density temple go better with longer hair.

[GeneralNorwood]

12 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Sorry, it's the left temple that's too square, not the right. The right actually looks really good and natural when the hair is grown out. 

 

11 hours ago, Z-- said:

Exactly this. Right side is actually pretty natural; near impossible to detect transplant. Left side is too squarish.

 

Yes guys, i have the same opinion. The problem with left temple is that design is too straight without irregularities and the distance between front singles and doubles is bigger then in right temple, so the transition between singles and doubles is not so smooth. Also left temple lacks some density on the top. Overall it needs repair in next procedure. 

I would rather improve left temple in second HT and then just grow both temples longer, than extract them. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[BaldGuy]

The frontal third looks good, however the temple points look bad and unatural with thick grafts implanted there. I think it would have been better not to implant grafts to temple points at all and save those grafts for the rest part of your head (midscalp and crown). How many grafts left in your donor, in order to cover midscalp and crown? What was the initial plan of Eugenix, in order to give you full coverage ?

Edited July 1, 2023 by BaldGuy

[GeneralNorwood]

43 minutes ago, BaldGuy said:

The frontal third looks good, however the temple points look bad and unatural with thick grafts implanted there. I think it would have been better not to implant grafts to temple points at all and save those grafts for the rest part of your head (midscalp and crown). How many grafts left in your donor, in order to cover midscalp and crown? What was the initial plan of Eugenix, in order to give you full coverage ?

3000-3200 grafts in the safe zone donor. (According to Bisanga's measurments)

There was no plan. I already wrote this, but they didn't want to implant more grafts on the crown and midscalp, because of risk of harming existing hair. 

Then they were like "wait, wait few more months, it will improve, we will see". And it of course didn't improve, so dr Das after 10 months proposed to implant 1000 grafts on the midscalp and 1500 on the crown. Suddenly there was no concern of hurting existing hair. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[BaldGuy]

35 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

3000-3200 grafts in the safe zone donor. (According to Bisanga's measurments)

There was no plan. I already wrote this, but they didn't want to implant more grafts on the crown and midscalp, because of risk of harming existing hair. 

Then they were like "wait, wait few more months, it will improve, we will see". And it of course didn't improve, so dr Das after 10 months proposed to implant 1000 grafts on the midscalp and 1500 on the crown. Suddenly there was no concern of hurting existing hair. 

why was eugenix expecting from your native hair to imrpove?? You didnt start now the miedication, but on 2021 as i saw on your thread, so you cant expect further improvement now, but just stabilisation with your current  hair loss therapy.

how do you explain the fact that now they wont damage existing hairs in the rest of your scalp , while before the procedure they would damage them if implantation would had been done on these areas ?

For your next procedure you should measure the total area of midscalp and crown, and calulcate how many grafts you need for each area in order to have decent coverage.

[GeneralNorwood]

1 hour ago, BaldGuy said:

why was eugenix expecting from your native hair to imrpove?? You didnt start now the miedication, but on 2021 as i saw on your thread, so you cant expect further improvement now, but just stabilisation with your current  hair loss therapy.

Before procedure, I said exactly same thing to Dr Das, that i am more on finasteride more then a year and my hair improved a lot and i don't see possibility to further improvement. 

 

1 hour ago, BaldGuy said:

how do you explain the fact that now they wont damage existing hairs in the rest of your scalp , while before the procedure they would damage them if implantation would had been done on these areas ?
 

They do aggresive procedure on Norwood 6(telling you that you are Norwood 3V), then they start to tell fairy tales and "wait, wait few months, we will see". Next they try to gaslight you that before procedure you had better hair and during last year you lost some ground. Finally they propose second procedure. That's how i explain it. But i am sure that they have another explanation that nobody smart will believe. 

 

1 hour ago, BaldGuy said:

For your next procedure you should measure the total area of midscalp and crown, and calulcate how many grafts you need for each area in order to have decent coverage.

Yes, i need tailored approach with 100% dedication from a doctor. 

[spidey_DUDE]

Out of 3514 grafts, 

How many you got in crown area???

[GeneralNorwood]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:39 PM, spidey_DUDE said:

Out of 3514 grafts, 

How many you got in crown area???

351 grafts in the crown

Edited July 15, 2023 by GeneralNorwood

[spidey_DUDE]

22 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

351 grafts in the crown

So out of 3514 grafts, 720 on temples and 351 on Crown.

Rest 3514-720-351= 2443 on hairline??

[bigmistake]

On 5/8/2023 at 4:09 AM, GeneralNorwood said:

 

 

Well, i think that one of best options for now is to style my hair as slickback. It covers my weak spots at lateral humps and with every month hair from front are getting longer and in few months they will make total comb for the crown i think.

Nowadays, i don't even use fibers, just some locking spray, foam or pomade or salt spray or headband, anything that keeps this style in place. 

 

Here i present photos from outdoors, i used some paste and locking spray to style hair, no fibers. 

 

 

 

 

 

And this is photo in harsher ligthing, in front of the bulb: 

 

Man these results look good. I envy them. You also mentioned that left temple was lighter than right, that's how it is in nature, one temple is less dense than the other. You should be happy with the results.

[GeneralNorwood]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:08 PM, bigmistake said:

Man these results look good. I envy them. You also mentioned that left temple was lighter than right, that's how it is in nature, one temple is less dense than the other. You should be happy with the results.

Thank you, i know that in pictures that you are reffering to, it looks good. But it looks good in certain conditions, it requires to do and mantain this slickback hairstyle to look decent. Guess what happens when there is stronger blow of wind or i just lay in bed for a while. Hairstyle is ruined and bald spots are visible. 

 

I talked with another respected surgeon that is known in this forum. He saw my preop, postop and current pictures. 

He was very surprised of the aggressive approach in the front. He pointed out this area in red elipse and said that it was obvious before operation that there will be huge dissconection between front and back. 

 

I don't agree that left temple in nature looks like mine. It is weaker and you can find many reviews of Eugenix work, where patients point out that there is something wrong with left temple. 

I talked with @Rafael Manelli about this issue before he "dissapeared" from this forum. He told me that he watched J Tillman show, where Tillman explained that the two temple points suppose to flow in different directions. 

And he asked me if i think that Eugenix is just doing same angles for both temples - Down and back. And i responed that i think that they do it with same pattern. 

 

However weaker left temple is my least concern. 

On 7/17/2023 at 12:19 AM, spidey_DUDE said:

So out of 3514 grafts, 720 on temples and 351 on Crown.

Rest 3514-720-351= 2443 on hairline??

and 32 beard grafts on the scar in occipital area. 

So 2443 - 32 = 2411 on the frontal third. 

[bigmistake]

5 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Thank you, i know that in pictures that you are reffering to, it looks good. But it looks good in certain conditions, it requires to do and mantain this slickback hairstyle to look decent. Guess what happens when there is stronger blow of wind or i just lay in bed for a while. Hairstyle is ruined and bald spots are visible. 

 

I talked with another respected surgeon that is known in this forum. He saw my preop, postop and current pictures. 

He was very surprised of the aggressive approach in the front. He pointed out this area in red elipse and said that it was obvious before operation that there will be huge dissconection between front and back. 

 

I don't agree that left temple in nature looks like mine. It is weaker and you can find many reviews of Eugenix work, where patients point out that there is something wrong with left temple. 

I talked with @Rafael Manelli about this issue before he "dissapeared" from this forum. He told me that he watched J Tillman show, where Tillman explained that the two temple points suppose to flow in different directions. 

And he asked me if i think that Eugenix is just doing same angles for both temples - Down and back. And i responed that i think that they do it with same pattern. 

 

However weaker left temple is my least concern. 

and 32 beard grafts on the scar in occipital area. 

So 2443 - 32 = 2411 on the frontal third. 

With regards to left temple, I saw in JTs own show where he mentioned that in nature left temple is always weaker than the right. I will try to find it and post it.

 

With regards to disconnection, can you again share your latest pictures with another hair style and your donor area. 

 

What is your head size ? In smaller heads I have seen clinics do a lower hairline like 6.5cms because 7.5cms from glabella in a large head = 6.5 cm in a smaller head.

 

Who is @Rafael Manelli?

[GeneralNorwood]

On 7/19/2023 at 6:30 AM, bigmistake said:

With regards to left temple, I saw in JTs own show where he mentioned that in nature left temple is always weaker than the right. I will try to find it and post it.

With regards to disconnection, can you again share your latest pictures with another hair style and your donor area. 

 

Maybe in nature left is weaker, but for sure it doesnt look like mine. 

 

This is how disconnection looks : 

On 7/19/2023 at 6:30 AM, bigmistake said:

What is your head size ? In smaller heads I have seen clinics do a lower hairline like 6.5cms because 7.5cms from glabella in a large head = 6.5 cm in a smaller head.

 

Who is @Rafael Manelli?

I don't have small head or large, i think it's average. I have now ~6cm from glabella. 

I think that in terms of proportions i have perfect distance, but not always you can do HT with "golden proportions", because you have to keep in mind patient level of hairloss. It is obvious that in my case my level of hairloss wasn't properly took into account.  

Edited August 3, 2023 by GeneralNorwood