1,427 FUE / 9.03.2021 / Dr. Dorin

[dotdashdashdash]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:35 PM, Glasswing said:

I'm 31 years old and have been worried about my hair since 2011. Specifically, my receding hairline. I began taking pictures and eventually got on finasteride in August 2015, and minoxidil foam in September 2016.

 

Choosing a Doctor

I feel that I could've spent forever on this step and still not have been confident in my choice. I looked at tons of patient results form tons of doctors, read all the comments, etc. In the end, I wanted a reputable doctor, and ideally someone I didn't have to fly to. I was also pretty set on getting an FUE over FUT. Well, as luck has it, there are some reputable doctors in NYC, which is just an hour from me without traffic, that perform FUE procedures. I only had two consultations; one with Dr. Dorin in-person, one with Dr. Wesley virtually.

Dr. Dorin was first. He was honest with me, which I appreciated. As in, he didn't promise unrealistic expectations. He said that with one procedure, it would likely still lack the density that one desires. Apparently many of his patients opt to come in for a second procedure (or more) to add that. It seems that Dr. Dorin does lean conservative with his graft counts compared to others. In some of the example pictures I'd seen from him, the hairlines were wildly curvy. While the one he drew on me also had intentional imperfections, it was a lot more subtle than some of the others I had seen from him.  In the end, he estimated 1,200 grafts for me, and claimed that I'd pretty much need an FUE procedure due to my hair characteristics. It cost $175 which could be used toward the procedure.

Dr. Wesley was next. This was a virtual consultation with a dated webcam, so of course it wasn't ideal circumstances. But there's a reason for that, and it's that an in-person consultation with him was $400. Granted this could also be used toward the procedure, but I just thought this was too much. For whatever reason, virtual was free, so I went with that. And it went alright. Viewing my webcam, he estimated 1,600 - 1,800 grafts. I did like the idea of potential higher density than the comparatively low estimate of 1,200 from Dr. Dorin. Prior to this, we had actually communicated briefly by email where he estimated 2,000. But there were a few things that turned me off. In contrast to Dr. Dorin, it felt like he was trying to promise me the world. He really talked himself up, mentioning that I wouldn't believe how many celebrities he's worked on, that his practice is the best in the business, etc. Whether or not that's all true, it rubbed me the wrong way. I also didn't like that he noticeably looked down on the fact that I chose to do a virtual consultation instead of in-person, citing that it wasn't a big deal since the $400 could be used toward the procedure. And it felt to me that he really wanted to end the call quickly. And he mentioned holistic medicine which is kind of a trigger word for me.

There were others I considered, but they either were too logistically inconvenient, or too unknown, or only seemed to dabble in FUE. What made me end up going with Dr. Dorin was his honesty, reputation, experience, and lower price (although still prohibitively expensive. It's NYC). I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to throw away the initial $175 I had spend on the consultation. I know that's a terrible thing to let impact this decision. My worries with Dr. Dorin: will I be satisfied with the density after one procedure? Is his signature hairline going to end up looking more realistic in the end?

The Procedure

For better or worse, I ended up going with Dr. Dorin. I managed to get an appointment which was around 2 months out, for September 3rd 2021. After a lot of questions back and forth, to which Peter was quick to respond, the day finally came. My friend drove me early in the morning, and I went in at 7:15 for my 7:30 appointment. There was some waiting involved throughout the day, but kind of your typical doctor experience. I met a nurse first who gave me an orientation. Later on, Dr. Dorin arrived and came in to draw out the planned hairline again, trying to be close to the original consultation. Again, I kind of liked it and trusted that the unevenness would end up looking more natural. I tried to nitpick since it was my last chance, to make sure it wasn't lopsided. He called me on my criticalness and said if I was worried about such miniscule details then I may not end up being happy with a transplant in general, as there will always be imperfections. He did alter it ever so slightly and agreed that if I was going to say something, now would be the time. He measured it and looked at it from a few angles, including in a mirror over his shoulder. I basically went with what he had originally drew out, and Peter took some pictures. Hopefully that was the right move.

Then Rita came in and gave me some valium and anesthetized the whole back and sides of my head. This was the most painful part, but tolerable, and she was great. I believe the harvesting stared around 10am, when Dr. Dorin and Catherine came in the room. I pretty much couldn't feel a thing after all the anesthesia, so that wasn't bad. But having to wear a mask for most of it was a bit uncomfortable, as well as some of the positions, mostly face down and on my side. Only way I knew it was happening was that I could hear the whirr of whatever the gadget he was using was, and the force it pushing into my head. But no pain. When I started to feel it, I said something and he applied more anesthesia. The harvesting was done with some breaks. A little over 600 the first time. Then a little over 600 again. As he was finishing with the second part, he said it looked like he could get some more if needed, but we would wait to hear the final tally. The final tally was over 1,300, over 100 more than the estimate. But I told him to use his judgment and feel free to take more if he felt it would improve my results. I was hoping that he would since I had been concerned all along that 1,200 was too low. He did take more.

Final Tally = 386 Single / 915 Double / 126 Triple / 1,427 total

I was happy that the number grew, although I also new it meant I would have to pay for each of those additional grafts. Quite a bit of money. Nonetheless, this step was done. I had my lunch, which I brought, and then it was onto the next step. Rita came back to numb the hairline. Again, a bit painful but tolerable. Dr. Dorin came in again with Catherine to make 1,427 incisions. Counting to 100 over and over. Again, I felt nothing, just heard the sound of my flesh being stabbed. Or I assume that's what the sound was. This was actually the quickest part, maybe an hour. The implantations into these incisions was done by a few people, but not Dr. Dorin. I believe it was Catherine, Kim, and Alex. I was upright and kind of watching Netflix on the TV for this part, but also nearly falling asleep. Because again I felt nothing and it took a while. It seemed that Dr. Dorin rarely came in to check on their progress, although I can't say for sure. And with that, it was over. Finished around 5pm. I went to the bathroom, looked at myself in the mirror, and got really depressed. My hairline, the density, even the way they trimmed down my hair. I thought I had made a mistake. But I had to go and have Peter take some more pictures. He said it looked really clean and I'd heal fast. Dr. Dorin saw the final results for the first time and said it looks great. Still, I felt really depressed in this moment while I waited for my friend to arrive and drive me home. I was given a baseball cap to wear out, and didn't want to be seen by anyone. I just wanted to be home.

Afterward and Current

After I got home, I looked at it some more, took some pictures, and I regained some optimism. That's where I am now. Still unsure if I made a mistake. Still hoping it will, at the very least, look a lot better than it did before the procedure, but hoping for incredible results. I've been spraying it every hour with some ATP solution they gave me, as directed. I slept the first night elevated in my reclining couch with an airplane pillow. I was given some gauze cover which I laid on top of my airplane pillow. Good thing, because whenever I woke up, the back of my head was wet with sweat or oozing blood or both. Probably both since it was quite wet but light red. And that's what I will continue for the next few nights. Tonight I'm supposed to dip a sponge in a shampoo/water mixture and lightly pat it over my head.

I think this is going to look great. (Also a Dorin alum.) 

Any updates?

[Glasswing]

Thanks for the well wishes, everyone! Unfortunately, I wouldn't call it a hair storm just yet, but nonetheless it's been a while and so it's time for an update. And don't worry, I plan on seeing these updates through at least a year post-procedure, good or bad. Some of the questions that were asked I will answer via PM.

Image dump:

And closeups from 12/12/2021:

As far as where I'm at now and my overall thoughts:

I'm trying not to jump to conclusions, because I know that in the grand scheme of things I'm still quite early on at about 3.5 months. Easily my biggest concern (as it has been since the first week or two) is that there is a clear difference between the two sides. My right side (first closeup picture above) has noticeably more hair growing in compared to my left side (picture immediately below it). I'd say it's even more clear in person. And I can't help but remember that my left side was almost completely done by one tech who didn't work on the right side (there's that conclusion-jumping I'm trying to avoid). All I can do now is wait and see how it pans out. Like I said, still early on so I'm still maintaining a certain level of optimism. 

As you can also see, the pinkness is still there a bit, and I do try to cover that up, but I don't doubt that that will continue to fade. Checking now, I think the numbness is all gone. Hard to tell, to be honest. It did at least last until relatively recently, I'd say, but that was never my major concern.

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Glasswing

[Gokuhairline]

hell yeah bro you're back....PS it is still way too early to jump to conclusions but i'll be real with you and quickly looking at the week 4 / october-ish close up looks very similar to todays you just posted maybe a few more hairs sprouting....i am also comparing it to mine since we are only a few days apart, but it also maybe just be how dorin's patients see growth, it will turn out great lets wait for the incoming hair storm you got this

[Gatsby]

It will come through @Glasswing. Also don't dismiss that this aside you have a great head of hair man! Patience is a bitch.

[Glasswing]

One week shy of four months, here's another update:

 

In retrospect, these collages I'm doing aren't the most useful considering they cover up most of the transplant area. Oh well, I'll still see it through. But with this update, I must admit that my optimism is dropping quickly. As the days pass, the disparity between the two sides seems to widen. My right side has clearly denser growth, as well as a less red scalp.

Right:

Left:

Middle:

So how worried should I be? Because I can assure you that I am very worried. Is this at all typical? I still can't help but think back and recall the one single difference between the two sides throughout this whole process; the grafts were placed by two different techs. That leads me to the uncomfortable thought process that the left side was implanted incorrectly and is destined to fail. Or am I jumping to conclusions?

Edited December 25, 2021 by Glasswing

[HappyMan2021]

@Glasswing 1400 grafts is really not that many grafts at all, with your level of hairloss. I would have guessed 1800-2000 would have been a golden number. 

It is within the realm of possibility that the left side is less dense than the right. 

A lack of density due to underestimated grafts would be the doc's fault and not the techs. While the techs for sure play a critical role in the surgery, at the end of the day they are just placing the grafts in the slits that the doctor created. The doctor alone is responsible for determining the number of slits, and the placement. 

For what its worth, it's super challenging to get satisfactory density in one go around. Even with objectively good hair transplants, I'd say the vast majority of guys get a 2nd touch of procedure (or 3rd or even 4th). 

They call it a hair transplant journey for a reason - its unfortunately unlikely for anyone to get their desired end-goal look with only 1 hair transplant. 

As others have said though, 4 months in though is too early to make a final call.

If by Month 7 the density is unchanged, you can start making plans for a touch up. 

[ML488]

@SadMan2021 Not sure why you are saying the lack of density may be due to an "underestimated" number of grafts when one side is clearly coming in quite dense and nice and the other side something may just be wrong. 1400 is a very acceptable amount of grafts for this imo.

To the OP, was one tech working on one side and another tech working on the other?

My personal opinion is it's not going to be a home run result on that one side of your head, but that being said, I absolutely have seen cases where 6-7 months in things really do take a sudden turn for the better and hair comes through stronger. I'd definitely just relax and give it a few more months before really panicking. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by ML488

[HappyMan2021]

47 minutes ago, ML488 said:

@SadMan2021 Not sure why you are saying the lack of density may be due to an "underestimated" number of grafts when one side is clearly coming in quite dense and nice and the other side something may just be wrong. 1400 is a very acceptable amount of grafts for this imo.

To the OP, was one tech working on one side and another tech working on the other?

My personal opinion is it's not going to be a home run result on that one side of your head, but that being said, I absolutely have seen cases where 6-7 months in things really do take a sudden turn for the better and hair comes through stronger. I'd definitely just relax and give it a few more months before really panicking. 

OP himself said he thought the initial estimation of 1200 grafts was too low. There is not a huge difference between 1200 and the end result of 1400. For a NW 3/4 going to a NW 1 hairline, unless OP has thick donor hair, this is a mediocre count at best. 

Also maybe you didn't read the post but OP already said there were 2 techs working on him. But again, the doc is the only one who determines the quantity of grafts placed. 

Edited December 25, 2021 by SadMan2021

[Gasthoerer]

Not even four month. Nothing to worry about at all. Many people have no growth at all at this stage. At a diffuse thinner, I did not even reach baseline at this stage. 

[digi23]

4 hours ago, Glasswing said:

One week shy of four months, here's another update:

 

In retrospect, these collages I'm doing aren't the most useful considering they cover up most of the transplant area. Oh well, I'll still see it through. But with this update, I must admit that my optimism is dropping quickly. As the days pass, the disparity between the two sides seems to widen. My right side has clearly denser growth, as well as a less red scalp.

Right:

Left:

Middle:

So how worried should I be? Because I can assure you that I am very worried. Is this at all typical? I still can't help but think back and recall the one single difference between the two sides throughout this whole process; the grafts were placed by two different techs. That leads me to the uncomfortable thought process that the left side was implanted incorrectly and is destined to fail. Or am I jumping to conclusions?

I am at 3 months 3 weeks aswell, one side is stronger for me aswell. Its just that more hairs sprouted on one side, all in all I think it will catch up pretty soon! 

Be patient, it will be great I am sure.

[ML488]

On 9/4/2021 at 5:35 PM, Glasswing said:

But having to wear a mask for most of it was a bit uncomfortable

They made you wear a mask the entire surgery?

Did you take a covid test beforehand?

[Glasswing]

I knew that the number of grafts may not produce a home run at my first bat, but I was (and still am) hoping that it would at least be a drastic improvement over what I had there (nothing). And then I'd consider my options from there. To be honest, I'd be pretty happy if both my sides looked like my right side does at this point. In fact I may even be happier if both of my sides looked like my left side, since then I could more easily convince myself that there aren't potential issues, with both sides being consistent. If that makes sense. The part that's hard to come to terms with is the clear disparity between sides. But I won't give up all hope just yet, and will of course try to heed everyone's advice to stay calm and give it some time.

For the vast majority of the graft placements, one tech was working on one side at a time, yes. In fact, for the left side, there was only one tech and nobody else at all in the room basically from start to finish of the placement process. As for the mask, if I remember correctly (without going back and looking at all my notes), I believe I had to wear it the whole time I was being worked on, except when my grafts were being extracted (because for that portion I was face down). I also don't recall them asking if I had been tested recently, but I wasn't.

Thank you, Gasthoerer and digi23! It makes me feel better to hear that I'm not all alone in this boat of mine 😃

And thanks everyone for the responses! Appreciate honest feedback

Edited December 26, 2021 by Glasswing

[Dillpickle123]

On 9/17/2021 at 7:26 PM, Glasswing said:

Two week update. My concerns:

The two sides still look noticeably different to me.

I don't know if the density will end up being enough to make me happy.

I have a hard time not touching the area, feeling for hard pieces and trying to rub them off. I exacerbate some of the hairs falling out because of this, but I guess they're going to fall out regardless, so not a huge deal?

I'll be going into work for the first time on Monday. A bit nervous about that, but I already told everyone so that takes a lot of pressure off. Otherwise I still hide away. But I don't look as ridiculous as I thought I might at this point.

@stephcurry30 nice, welcome. I take it you haven't opted for a procedure yourself, yet?

My hairline is similar and I’ve been quoted anywhere from 1600-1800 grafts then again I want a slightly more aggressive hairline, you can always go back for a few hundred more grafts later after 12 months 

[Gokuhairline]

update ??????? damn i hope he did not going mia.....

[Gokuhairline]

6 month update ??????? really invested in this one lol....

[stephcurry30]

In to see this update!

[gs1207]

Any progress since your last post @Glasswing? I’ve found your thread super helpful! 

[Glasswing]

Been a while! Sorry about that, and sorry about all these images I'm about to dump:

Right:

Left:

Eight month mark. I upgraded (?) my phone in February, which is why the pictures are suddenly worse and yellow tinted beginning 2/03. And despite what the closeups may imply, the left side is still clearly less impressive than the right side in person. I did the right side a disservice by taking the worst possible closeups with hair pointing in every direction. In fact I did everything a disservice by staging the photos directly under harsh white lighting. Perhaps it would be more fair to soak my hair and comb it before taking pictures. I'll look into that.

Very shortly after my last post in late December, I was in contact with the doctor. Exchanged emails, spoke with the doctor directly. He did agree with me that the left side was lagging behind, and reassured me that we would do a free touch up if needed to get the left side on the same page. It looks like it's needed. Haven't spoken with him since, but I'll work on that.

I'll now attempt to summarize all my current thoughts on the whole process up to this point.

I kind of feel like I need to separate my thoughts into two, one for each side. Taking just my right side into account, I'm decently pleased with the results. It actually looks pretty good when I manage to cut my hair well and don't intentionally try to expose my scalp. Taking just my left side into account, I'm underwhelmed. I definitely feel the need to make an effort to comb my hair forward and at just the right angle on that side to help cover the thinness. Is it better than it was? I guess. I do have some hair where I previously didn't, so at the very least I need to make less of an effort than I once did.

Overall, I don't regret that I got the procedure. Hindsight being 20/20, it's hard to not look back on the specifics of my procedure and wonder how they could have turned out differently. I spent a premium to have a well-regarded and nearby doctor perform the procedure. While I was concerned about the lower than average graft estimate, I tried to see the positive: higher chance that more individual grafts would survive; preservation of more donor hairs for future procedures if needed; maybe I'd be satisfied with the final density. But now I'll probably need a second procedure. Which means using more of my donor hairs. Which means potentially a final tally of 2,000 grafts for a result that looks like 1,400 grafts. What if I had gone to someone that did 2,000 grafts from the beginning? Would I only have needed one procedure and achieved denser hair for less money? Or would I have had similar or even worse issues? I have my theories, but I can't know for sure, so I guess it's not really worth thinking about.

That all sounds negative, but I'd still consider this an overall positive. Not a miracle by any stretch, but positive. I have more good hair days than I did before my procedure. I'm less concerned that my carefully styled hair will fall out of place and expose my scalp than I was before my procedure. I spend less time panicking while researching my prevention and styling options than I did before my procedure. And for all that, I'm happier than I was before my procedure.

[Melvin- Admin]

Nice subtle improvements, can’t wait for your 12 month update.

[gs1207]

Thanks @Glasswing this is truly helpful. Appreciate u sharing! 

[A Fue Good Men]

It’s not a bad place to be at all. It’s a great change for a modest amount of grafts. The doctor has assured your donor is kept in tact. You can always add some more. Slow and steady will get you to where you want and put you at less risk. There’s plenty of doctors out there willing to throw out a ton of grafts and seeing what sticks.

[Barnan12550]

How much per graph was Dorin? 

[Gokuhairline]

1 minute ago, Barnan12550 said:

How much per graph was Dorin? 

a lot lol.....this probably cost $20K lol

[Barnan12550]

On 5/4/2022 at 10:13 PM, Gokuhairline said:

a lot lol.....this probably cost $20K lol

$20k for how many graphs??? Lol

[Glasswing]

It was expensive, but certainly not $20k